New Disney Ships: News, Rumors, Speculation.....and Names!

[Spork24]

Here's s little new ship tidbit. All 3 hull numbers are now public knowledge. They are in order
2021 s.705
2022 s.718
2023 s.706.

This tells us lot. It says the first 2 ships, were scheduled for a 21 and 23 delivery. It wasn't a mistake or misprint. The 22 ship was an add on or addition. Personally I think MW made DCL an offer they couldn't refuse since at the time, they had no orders for ships on order for the year 2022

This is interesting insight. I never thought the 2 ships were a misprint, or the delivery schedule. I had kind of assumed that Disney decided to buy a third ship and MW slid ship 2 forward to make room for the 3rd in the schedule.

I would guess you are right that MF gave them a deal. Buy 2 ships at $1.05B get the third for $990M

 

[truck1]

Looking at it from a past practice point of view, DCL usually orders ships consecutively. 98 and 99, 2004 and 5 ( unbuilt class inbetween the Magic and Dream class)2011 and 12. So when they said 2021 and 23, it just sounded wrong. At least to me.

 

[CaptainKat]

I would like to sail on Disney Charm.

I like that one! Maybe also the Grace? I do suspect that they'll end up being some of the ones that first got thrown out there in internet speculations, just because those seem the more obvious (though I could also see one that comes out of nowhere but makes everyone go "of course, why didn't we think of that one!"), but it's so fun to think of new ones!

 

[Spork24]

Looking at it from a past practice point of view, DCL usually orders ships consecutively. 98 and 99, 2004 and 5 ( unbuilt class inbetween the Magic and Dream class)2011 and 12. So when they said 2021 and 23, it just sounded wrong. At least to me.

Tell me more about this unbuilt class from 2004 to 2005. Google is failing me. I didn’t know there was an inbuilt class. Did they ever get as far as announcing any details or renderings?

 

[ivanp91]

Here's s little new ship tidbit. All 3 hull numbers are now public knowledge. They are in order
2021 s.705
2022 s.718
2023 s.706.

This tells us lot. It says the first 2 ships, were scheduled for a 21 and 23 delivery. It wasn't a mistake or misprint. The 22 ship was an add on or addition. Personally I think MW made DCL an offer they couldn't refuse since at the time, they had no orders for ships on order for the year 2022

Something interesting is that two of the hull numbers precede ships that have already been built (Norwegian Bliss is 707, Genting Dream is 711, World Dream is 712).

 

[truck1]

Tell me more about this unbuilt class from 2004 to 2005. Google is failing me. I didn’t know there was an inbuilt class. Did they ever get as far as announcing any details or renderings?

Back in summer of 2001, when I worked for WDW, there was a internal memo from DCL, in Disneyese, basically saying 2 new ships, etc. Not too many details. The plans were shelved right after 9/11 (about 3 or 4 months after the letter) and nothing ever came from them after that. Flash foward to 2012 on the Fantasy Maiden and Joe Lanzisero did a talk on building the Dream class and made the mistake of coming into the audience at the end of the talk. I asked him specifically where the Dream class came from, if they were the unbuilt class, new or combo and he said they were a combo of the Magic class, the unbuilt class, and new builds. They basically took all of the best from the Magic class, the unbuilt, added to it, and built the Dream. The unbuilt class was to be bigger then the Magic, but smaller then the Dream.

 

[truck1]

Something interesting is that two of the hull numbers precede ships that have already been built (Norwegian Bliss is 707, Genting Dream is 711, World Dream is 712).

I'll have to go back and look. I have an idea why it might be but need to investigate a little. Also, the 2022 ship is 13 behind the 2021 ship. That seems odd if MW puts out 3 to 4 ships a year.

 

[Flossbolna]

I'll have to go back and look. I have an idea why it might be but need to investigate a little. Also, the 2022 ship is 13 behind the 2021 ship. That seems odd if MW puts out 3 to 4 ships a year.

Could it be that they give numbers to options? So, if an option is exercised, it will get the number from the earlier contract, not the number from when it was exercised?

 

[Snowwhyt]

Could it be that they give numbers to options? So, if an option is exercised, it will get the number from the earlier contract, not the number from when it was exercised?

I would guess that the actual hull would be a different size and might not still be useable as a number. But since the ship industry is SO omen driven, I don’t see them re-using anything, including the hull number. There must be some buddy out there that knows how many omens there are about ships that could throw out a good 15 of them? Challenge… I enjoy a good read.

 

[truck1]

I would guess that the actual hull would be a different size and might not still be useable as a number. But since the ship industry is SO omen driven, I don’t see them re-using anything, including the hull number. There must be some buddy out there that knows how many omens there are about ships that could throw out a good 15 of them? Challenge… I enjoy a good read.

Could it be that they give numbers to options? So, if an option is exercised, it will get the number from the earlier contract, not the number from when it was exercised?

I don't think they would number an option right out of the box. Mostly because it would probably put that optioned ship in the build line, even if they didn't build it, which would also order parts for the ship that wouldn't be built, which would waste money and time. I can think of 4 or 5 scenarios that would skew the numbers, any or all of which would play a part. I just need to get to my computer to do some research.

Snowwhyt, most times when a ship is built and a deal is made, say 2 definite and 3 options, the hulls and structures are the same. They might change little things around like say make a passage way 2 feet wider or 10 feet longer but the general structure of the ships stays the same. A design change past a certain point, would require new plans new reviews etc. Something as simple as going from say 800 feet to 820 feet long changes a lot on the way of dimensions weight power requirements etc. Most if not all contracts say the ship will be x amount of feet long, y feet wide, z feet tall and t amount of tons carrying c amount of cabins. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for changes from 1 ship to the next.

 

[fishingfool999]

Fun Facts :
Fantasy hull number - s.688
Dream hull number - s.687

Magic hull number - 5989
Wonder hull number - 5990

5989 9126807 Disney Magic Magic-class cruise ship 17 April 1997 1998 Marghera(Venezia) 83.338 GRT Disney Cruise Line
5990 9126819 Disney Wonder Magic-class Cruise ship 1999 1999 Marghera(Venezia) 83.308 GRT Disney Cruise Line

 

[Snowwhyt]

Snowwhyt, most times when a ship is built and a deal is made, say 2 definite and 3 options, the hulls and structures are the same. They might change little things around like say make a passage way 2 feet wider or 10 feet longer but the general structure of the ships stays the same. A design change past a certain point, would require new plans new reviews etc. Something as simple as going from say 800 feet to 820 feet long changes a lot on the way of dimensions weight power requirements etc. Most if not all contracts say the ship will be x amount of feet long, y feet wide, z feet tall and t amount of tons carrying c amount of cabins. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room for changes from 1 ship to the next.

So it’s the same hull from before 9/11?

 

[Dug720]

So it’s the same hull from before 9/11?

I think they meant that when plans are made for a ship or ships between a line and a building company. Obviously there have been multiple ship designs - look at all the floating boxes out there that have been built - over the past few years. But I think what they mean is the bids on building ships are based on plans the cruise lines have and those are unlikely to change much after the contracts are awarded to a builder.

 

[truck1]

So it’s the same hull from before 9/11?

No. I think we're talking about 2 different things here.
A hull number is assigned to a ship by the yard that builds it. They each have there own system of numbering. It's the same as the vin on a car. Using ME as an example, there are at least 3 Dreams built in the last 10 years. Genting Dream, World Dream, and Disney Dream. It cuts down on confusion when parts or other issues arise.

When a ship (s) are ordered, usually there is an option clause in the contract that specifies how many add on ships a line can obtain at the same pricing or lower pricing etc, assuming that nothing changes from 1 ship of the class to the next. Using the Dream as an example, DCL had a commitment to buy 2 ships outright, the Dream and Fantasy, with an option to buy 2 more at a later date. Usually there's a clause that says pricing is only good for say 180 days after the last ship is delivered. The 2nd pair of the Dream class that were never built were never issued hull numbers by MW.
Now, the unbuilt class of ships, would have been larger then the Magic class, which would also make them wider by necessity, and also heavier, with more passenger capacity. What DCL did was to go to the Magic class and took the best attributes from them. Them went to the unbuilt class and took ideas from that ship, even though it was never built, added in some fresh ideas, and the Dream class was born. The The unbuilt ships as a guess would be in the neighborhood of about 100000 tons, prob 920ish feet long and prob carry about 3000 guests. It would fit roughly halfway between the Magic and Dream class size wise. For the most part hull shapes don't change. The size does, based on different restrictions, like stability etc. For the most part, woth the exception of the duck tails on the Magic class, the Dream and Magic class are pretty close in shape.

 

[truck1]

I think they meant that when plans are made for a ship or ships between a line and a building company. Obviously there have been multiple ship designs - look at all the floating boxes out there that have been built - over the past few years. But I think what they mean is the bids on building ships are based on plans the cruise lines have and those are unlikely to change much after the contracts are awarded to a builder.

Thanks i saw that. I went back before and reread there post, and I think we might have been talking about 2 different things. I thought initially they were talking about the hull numbers being assigned.

 

[Spork24]

Something interesting is that two of the hull numbers precede ships that have already been built (Norwegian Bliss is 707, Genting Dream is 711, World Dream is 712).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_built_at_Meyer_Werft

So the hull numbers of the entire facility appear to be sporadic in recent years compared to a pretty steady past. It may not be possible to read anything into this other than the middle ship is the true addition.

Are we sure the contract requires all 3 to be exactly the same, could the later hull number indicate a slight adjustment to the stacks to allow for PC passage? This might explain why Disney pulled the trigger on it late?

 

[truck1]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ships_built_at_Meyer_Werft

So the hull numbers of the entire facility appear to be sporadic in recent years compared to a pretty steady past. It may not be possible to read anything into this other than the middle ship is the true addition.

Are we sure the contract requires all 3 to be exactly the same, could the later hull number indicate a slight adjustment to the stacks to allow for PC passage? This might explain why Disney pulled the trigger on it late?

Yes we are sure. 2 reasons. First is that the announcement DCL an MW have both said all 3 ships are identical is specs. 2nd, when a contract is set up, it stipulates the size of the ships, weight, length, with cabins etc.

I still have to look but I think 1 of the reasons why the numbers jump is MW acquired at least 1 if not 2 other yards It's possible that the other yard that was acquired now uses the Papenburg numbering system for hull ids. which would explain the number jump for the 3 DCL ships. Another reason is when the contrct stipulates delivery. DCL might have been first on line, but Genting and World may have had sooner delivery dates. I need to get on my laptop and look and see who announced what and when. It's kind of hard to look sitting here in the MK.

 

[Spork24]

Yes we are sure. 2 reasons. First is that the announcement DCL an MW have both said all 3 ships are identical is specs. 2nd, when a contract is set up, it stipulates the size of the ships, weight, length, with cabins etc.

I still have to look but I think 1 of the reasons why the numbers jump is MW acquired at least 1 if not 2 other yards It's possible that the other yard that was acquired now uses the Papenburg numbering system for hull ids. which would explain the number jump for the 3 DCL ships. Another reason is when the contrct stipulates delivery. DCL might have been first on line, but Genting and World may have had sooner delivery dates. I need to get on my laptop and look and see who announced what and when. It's kind of hard to look sitting here in the MK.

They acquired a yard in Finland large enough to produce this size ship. That’s probably a good explaination.

 

[Flossbolna]

http://www.meyerwerft.de/media/pdfs/pdf/003_RL_Kreuzfahrtschiffe_12022020_4c_Pfade_TNSE..pdf

This should answer all questions about yard numbers. I guess this document is the source for the Disney ships’ yard numbers. And as you can see, all numbers are accounted for by Papenburg ships. Turku still has their own number system.

 

[disneycruise100]

Back in summer of 2001, when I worked for WDW, there was a internal memo from DCL, in Disneyese, basically saying 2 new ships, etc. Not too many details. The plans were shelved right after 9/11 (about 3 or 4 months after the letter) and nothing ever came from them after that. Flash foward to 2012 on the Fantasy Maiden and Joe Lanzisero did a talk on building the Dream class and made the mistake of coming into the audience at the end of the talk. I asked him specifically where the Dream class came from, if they were the unbuilt class, new or combo and he said they were a combo of the Magic class, the unbuilt class, and new builds. They basically took all of the best from the Magic class, the unbuilt, added to it, and built the Dream. The unbuilt class was to be bigger then the Magic, but smaller then the Dream.

Wow.. I guess I've learned something new today. Thanks for posting this truck1.

I'm assuming Disney shelved these ships because they assumed that travel markets would take a dive after 9/11 (and they did).

One can only assume what these ships would've looked like.