Alligator Incident Discussion/Fence being built at Grand Floridian?

[scousemouse09]

It's all a liability issue and will be up to Disney's insurance carriers and lawyers to make those decisions! Of course Disney will have PR issues as well.

I would hope common sense plays a part in this decision making process, rather than knee jerk reactions. As KBinCO says above sometimes accidents happen, it's very sad and we can only learn from the situation to make it even less likely that it will happen again in the next 40 years. We cannot remove all risks from life.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I personally would not mind if they grassed the beach areas for safety purposes but I know others do not like that idea. At the Beach Club they have an area behind the beach that is sandy for volleyball I believe although I never see anyone use it. They could easily convert to a sand area with some chairs and let kids build castles. The water is polluted off their beaches anyway and it was never a great idea to use it to build sand castles. This way the kids are in a safer area and not drawn to the water. The grassed area would not take away from my enjoyment of the resort. But as I said it's not up to me or anyone else. Up to insurance company and lawyers.

 

[ols386]

I think they should change the signage, but not put up the fences. If guests are willing to risk the safety of their families, then that's their decision.

The fences will detract from the beauty of the resorts, theming, and overall atmosphere. Just my two cents.

 

[BK2014]

And let's not forget, that this particular beach was used at primarily at night, pitch dark, for movie viewing. Who can see the murky, unclean water in the darkness?

Have you ever been to the Grand Floridian for one of these movie nights? If not, please go to google images and you will see that it is no where near "pitch dark". There is plenty of light from light posts, buildings etc. You can see your surroundings, the people around you, and yes, where the water's edge is. Why do you make statements that are alarming and completely untrue. Yes, the beach is used for activities at night, but not the water. The alligator did not come up on the beach and out of the water to attack the little boy. If alligators posed such a dangerous risk at WDW as you claim, you would have heard about it before your belief in the WDW safety bubble was popped this week.

The outcome does not dictate how dangerous the situation is. The likelihood of the danger occurring does. The risk of being attacked by an alligator at WDW or anywhere else is phenomenally low. Should WDW have signs warning about the possibility of bee stings, trees falling in high winds, buildings collapsing, sink holes, food poisoning, etc? All could possibly happen, and all could possibly be fatal.

 

[wzwild]

Now we all know. It would have been nice for Disney to tell guests this before the inevitable occurred. There were no indications to people not indigenous to Florida who would think that alligators were thriving in a man-made lake on whose edge Disney enticed small children to gather at feeding time.

"Denial of basic scientific fact". Yeah, to people who live in the south.

I am from Saskatchewan, Canada and I am completely aware of the snake and alligator dangers in ANY body of water in Florida. The wildlife doesn't care if it is man made or natural, and I'm not sure how they could keep the wildlife out of there. Move one, another will take its place. I educate myself about the places I travel to, in order to keep my family as safe as possible. It is not Disneys responsibility to do that. It is our responsibility as travellers to educate ourselves!

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I think they should change the signage, but not put up the fences. If guests are willing to risk the safety of their families, then that's their decision.

The fences will detract from the beauty of the resorts, theming, and overall atmosphere. Just my two cents.

My guess is that some form of fence will be in place from now on. Once they place a fence there and change their signage to acknowledge the dangers I doubt that they will then remove the barriers. It's all about liability and public safety.

 

[Boardwalk Tigger]

I am from Saskatchewan, Canada and I am completely aware of the snake and alligator dangers in ANY body of water in Florida. The wildlife doesn't care if it is man made or natural, and I'm not sure how they could keep the wildlife out of there. Move one, another will take its place. I educate myself about the places I travel to, in order to keep my family as safe as possible. It is not Disneys responsibility to do that. It is our responsibility as travellers to educate ourselves!

Well I also educate myself too but it is Disney's responsibility to warn the public as to dangers on their property whether it be rides, alligators or other things they are aware of. They created these bodies of water and beaches and they are responsible for keeping the public safe and warning them about known or should have been known dangers. It sounds like Florida needs to consider reducing the alligator population in their state.

 

[Baklava]

I'm sorry, but I am from the Midwest too, and have known as far back as I can remember that there are gators in Florida. It is swampland. One of it's most popular universities has a Gator as a mascot. I'm sure not everyone from the Midwest knows about the gators, but is sure can't be an automatic excuse. It makes people from the Midwest seem dumb and uninformed.

I attended public schools in Northern California. Florida meant beaches, Disney and alligators, the way New York meant the Empire State building and the Statue of Liberty. From a young age I was fully aware that Florida = gators. I am as disturbed about the state of education as anything. The number of people who managed to grow up without ever being taught basics about gators is pretty shocking.

 

[starstruck93]

It is my understanding that if a guest does something dangerous on a ride (such as bypass a safety harness), they become ex-guests. It is important to remember that we have no proof that this alligator had been fed by humans. Alligators hunt in shallow water at night. Whether or not the alligator had been fed by humans, that poor baby would still be alive if his parents had not ignored the rules. That alligator most likely mis-took his precious little foot for a fish. The alligator did not eat him...it was a case of mistaken identity. I am very saddened that fences are going up on the beaches, and I am really sad that all the beaches are closed to guests. I feel horribly for this family...their loss is unimaginable. However, I am also sad for the changes to the resorts this tragedy will cause. If people would just follow the rules...

Thank you!!! This is exactly how I feel as well!! °O°

 

[GPC0321]

I think unfortunately that's the issue. "No swimming". The boy wasn't swimming.

Every time I see this, my eye twitches and my blood pressure shoots up.
No, he wasn't doing the butterfly stroke around the Seven Seas Lagoon, so technically he wasn't "swimming". But he was in a body of water with "NO Swimming" signs at night. A two year old. In the water. At night.
I don't care if he was swimming, wading or what, it is never a good idea to allow a child that young and small to play in an unknown body of water that people are not allowed to swim in at night. It just isn't. Splitting hairs over the sign is silly. Even if there wasn't a sign at all and people routinely swam laps around the darn thing during the day, it STILL isn't a good idea to allow a 2 year old baby to get into that water at night. Not to the bottoms of his feet, his ankles, his knees or however deep he was. And not because of the risk of alligator attacks. But because he's a 2 YEAR OLD BABY and it's an unknown body of water in which swimming is prohibited and it's 9 o'clock at night! He could step on a snake, run from his parents and wind up in much deeper water and go under and be very hard to find in the dark in a body of water as huge as that lagoon.

All that said, people make mistakes. Disney makes mistakes AND PARENTS MAKE MISTAKES. Disney will most likely take the blame for this and the parents will receive a lot of money that will not bring their son back or change the "woulda, shoulda, couldas" that are doubtless plaguing them right now.

The fact remains that if that little fella had been a foot or so away from the water instead of in it, he would most likely still be here. Gators listen for splashing and hunt IN the water because they can then easily subdue (drown) their prey. So staying OUT Of the water hugely reduces anyone's chance of getting attacked by a gator.

 

[DLgal]

Every time I see this, my eye twitches and my blood pressure shoots up.
No, he wasn't doing the butterfly stroke around the Seven Seas Lagoon, so technically he wasn't "swimming". But he was in a body of water with "NO Swimming" signs at night. A two year old. In the water. At night.
I don't care if he was swimming, wading or what, it is never a good idea to allow a child that young and small to play in an unknown body of water that people are not allowed to swim in at night. It just isn't. Splitting hairs over the sign is silly. Even if there wasn't a sign at all and people routinely swam laps around the darn thing during the day, it STILL isn't a good idea to allow a 2 year old baby to get into that water at night. Not to the bottoms of his feet, his ankles, his knees or however deep he was. And not because of the risk of alligator attacks. But because he's a 2 YEAR OLD BABY and it's an unknown body of water in which swimming is prohibited and it's 9 o'clock at night! He could step on a snake, run from his parents and wind up in much deeper water and go under and be very hard to find in the dark in a body of water as huge as that lagoon.

All that said, people make mistakes. Disney makes mistakes AND PARENTS MAKE MISTAKES. Disney will most likely take the blame for this and the parents will receive a lot of money that will not bring their son back or change the "woulda, shoulda, couldas" that are doubtless plaguing them right now.

The fact remains that if that little fella had been a foot or so away from the water instead of in it, he would most likely still be here. Gators listen for splashing and hunt IN the water because they can then easily subdue (drown) their prey. So staying OUT Of the water hugely reduces anyone's chance of getting attacked by a gator.

A-freakin'-MEN!

 

[Jeslynb]

Legally, it is enough. Florida law is pretty clear: property owners are not liable for wild animal attacks, and the "no swimming" signs cover them legally. They have already put up signs. But it is impossible for them to fence the whole place or keep out gators and snakes. Most of the Southeastern U.S. has plenty of both.

Many people are just being totally unrealistic about this.

I'm an attorney. If Florida law were clear, which it's not, it seems to err on the side of taking a position contrary to yours. Homeowners Associations have been found liable for wild animal attacks on property. I also disagree on there being dispositive case law on the sufficiency of a "no swimming" sign to warn about wild animals - can I ask what you are referring to?

 

[Lsdolphin]

It would probably be every hard to actually catch people feeding the alligators and other wildlife. I don't for one second believe people think it's okay to feed wildlife from their rooms or from their perch at a restaurant or wherever else people drop food for the wildlife, but they do it because they don't think about it or they feel like the rules aren't necessary or applied to them. People will do things like this and other things that they shouldn't until they are forced to stop, but these types of actions are probably very hard to police. People need to think about the things they are doing and how that might affect the habitat around them, but sadly I feel like that's kind of wishful thinking and some people just don't care what they should or shouldn't do and that's not likely to change.

Should people be held responsible for feeding the wildlife, sure of course but is that likely a possible thing for Disney to be able to enforce...probably not.

I am here now and unfortunately I can assure you it would not be hard at all to "catch" people feeding the wildlife. I have seen numerous people doing so...at the bus stop (resorts/parks), outside seating areas at EVERY restaurant I have been in all parks, at the pools, and from benches throughout parks. I have even seen someone sharing their $5.00 cupcake from Sprinkles with a squirrel and a duck. And yes I have seen people throw food into water from the beach areas and from walk way to the Digsite Pool at the Coronado Springs Resort. While at the Flametree restaurant in AK I had 2 ducks come up and nip at my legs for food after they had been intentionally given food from people eating at a nearby table right beside a sign saying don't feed the wildlife! I am sitting here right now at Capt. Cookes at the Poly watching children throw their food to the birds while their father is filming them! Yes there is a sign right here as well!

 

[Gryhndmom]

If they have mentioned this in the news or it has been posted on a thread, I missed it but Disney has said they will keep searching for the alligator that attakced the little boy. How will they know if they have found the right alligator ?

 

[wdwrule]

so technically he wasn't "swimming".

Exactly! Again should have had alligator warning signs. Like it or lump it Disney was negligent and changes will be made. They're already being made. I walk through puddles. I'm not swimming. Just a shame this happened for Disney to finally put up some not so magical signs. I could picture a family letting their child walk through the edge of the water being close by because of the "no swimming" sign. To me I thought it was because no lifeguard is on duty. I'm extremely happy they'll put up those signs and most likely put up barriers whether natural or not. The park caters to families. Make it family friendly. Sorry for those who's trip will be ruined because of a little lack of aesthetics. If it means saving some future lives that's more important to me. I really hope CM's stop referring to alligators seen on property as the "resident pets". No wonder people feed them. We don't but when CM's make the beasts sound playful and lovely and refer to them as pets..... Some people will no matter what and I get that. And don't get me wrong...I do now and then sip the Disney Kool-Aid...I just don't guzzle it and rely on it. 30 years from now people will walk by the fences/barriers and be like "what, there was no barrier here before?!?!?!" Everyone has their own opinion and I respect that. I'll be happy and relieved when I visit next year and see the fences and new signs.

 

[Sheila Tenney]

I've been following this story closely. I've been to WDW a few times. I've never waded or swam in the lagoon. Nor, have I let my child go near it either. But honestly, mainly because I just think it's pretty dirty. Being from California, I knew about gators but never would have thought them being a threat at WDW. My heart is breaking for that family. While no swimming means no swimming, i don't think the kid was actually swimming. He was wading in a few inches of water. Would I have let my child do the same? Probably not, but more because of disease than gators. Furthermore, I'm a rule follower to the 10th degree. So no swimming (to me), means "don't even stick a toe in that water." But not everyone thinks like me. And I sure know that when it comes to the public. That said, I don't think calling parents "stupid" or "lacking common sense" serves any purpose. (Seen all over the internet, not here necessarily.) Do I think Disney bears some responsibility? From what I've read and understood so far, yes I do. The bottom line is that they are serving mainly to tourists who are not familiar with local habitat. Furthermore, I think whatever wildlife lives in those waters is pretty used to people, and thus the behavior of those critters is compromised as a result. I think it could have been prevented if more precautions were put into place.

This is a horrific tragedy. My heart goes out to all involved. At the end of the day, no one wanted to see a child lose their life. No one. I also know that I'm also an imperfect parent. I'll never feel too safe behind a keyboard thinking a tragedy couldn't happen to me or anyone else. I can't imagine what that family is going through, and I hope they find peace. Kudos to Disney for taking immediate steps.

 

[DisneyCowgirl]

Is there anywhere in this thread or anywhere else where I can find out if the beach at Poly is open or closed? Seems like all the threads are getting merged into this one, but most of the posts seem to be debate about parenting and liability etc.

 

[wdwrule]

Is there anywhere in this thread or anywhere else where I can find out if the beach at Poly is open or closed? Seems like all the threads are getting merged into this one, but most of the posts seem to be debate about parenting and liability etc.

All beaches are closed at least until they figure out a temporary, most likely, leading to a permanent barrier.

 

[Skywalker]

It amazes me that people who are well aware that there are alligators in Florida are shocked - shocked! - to hear that they are also on Disney property. Do they think that alligators or any other wildlife somehow respect the "Disney Bubble"? I saw a poster on one of these threads say they were shocked this happened at Disney, and "especially at the Grand Floridian". Really? Like if it was the lower priced hotels it would be more expected? I just think it's ridiculous. People have to assume responsibility for their own actions. Australia has weird (to me) venomous creepy crawly creatures, and if I was attacked by one of them when we visited, I wouldn't have blamed the hotel I was staying at. I would just assume any indigenous creature could be anywhere any time. I know Disney marketing is top notch but do people literally think its some kind of literal magic kingdom for goodness sake?

And then the people wanting all alligators killed. Come on, yes let's force another species to extinction because... peeps want a theme park. This is yet another reason why people suck.

 

[Beachangel]

Odd title for the thread "incident"......

I will forever think of Lane Graves whenever I look out at 'the water' while at a Disney resort. God bless him and his family always.