Are RIV point charts REALLY that might higher?!

iheartglaciers

DIS Veteran
Joined
May 1, 2014
I do not think you can use CCV because I think they were forced To keep points lower there to be in line with BRV.
The CCV rooms are also smaller than other DVC rooms, so I don’t think it was solely to keep them in line with BRV. If the rooms were the same size, you could imagine CCV being a little higher since you’re in the main building (like a preferred category).
 

SG131

DIS Veteran
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
And that's where the old timers think its expensive. Take a BCV owner, have them stay next to Epcot with SAB for 15 points a night (Adventure Season Studio) with $7.06 in dues - ignoring the buy in cost because you've owned for a dozen years and made your ROI, and you have a nightly cost of $105.90. If its a BWV standard view, you get 10 points a night and $7.36 in dues - $70.26 a night. Go over to Riveria and you'll have 15 for a standard view - at $8.30 a point ($124.5 per night) or a preferred view at $18 ($150.5 a night). The best apples to apples comparison is BW Preferred to RIV preferred so you aren't arguing about views - $110 to $150 - 40% more expensive.

Dues are the most expensive part of owning DVC. Higher points per night requirement means more points for the same number of nights which means more dues at a resort where the dues are high. Disney has tended to estimate pre-opening dues low (probably to make sales more attractive). For a BWV owner (of 15+ years) RIV looks very expensive.

But old times think all of the newer resorts are expensive.
I am not an old timer and I also think it’s high. Maybe beach club and bwv are a tad low, but RIV shouldn’t be close to magic kingdom resort prices. Since dvc point charts can’t change look at it from the cash rate side. I’ve paid to stay at both the MK and Epcot resorts. The rack rates of the MK resorts are much higher (not to mention poly is almost never discounted it’s so popular at that high price). I would not pay the price I pay to stay at poly to stay at beach club even if the room sizes were identical.

As @skier_pete said it’s all about location. RIV is nice but it doesn’t have the location to justify being at the same level as those MK resorts. Some people don’t care as much about location, but a lot of people do. I am in the process of adding on now and I went with BLT even though I like the grounds of CCV better. I don’t typically book studios so the booking difficulty wasn’t an issue for me, but went with BLT because you can’t beat that short walk to MK.
 
  • Can_Dannn

    Earning My Ears
    Joined
    Jul 18, 2019
    It's about location. Riviera is pretty on par with BLT and a little lower than VGF and Poly. However, those are all MK resorts. Riviera is much higher than BCV and BWV - the resorts that I would consider it most comparable too. The other thing with Riviera, is even though you are looking at Standard view, that's only 25% of the resort - so the wise thing to do is compare most common point category to most common. So compare BCV Lake to RIV Preferred. (And realizing most of those "preferred" views are of looking at CBR or the pool. Yes some rooms will have a view that can see the fireworks at either Epcot or DHS, but my estimate saying at most that's probably 15-20% of the rooms.

    The point numbers are not OUTRAGEOUS in my view, but they are on the high side, when combined with the MF and the location I do think that should be considered a factor in purchasing. (I love the Poly, but have not bought there for the same reason, that the point per night cost is too high. )
    So you are well known for logical-realistic opinions.... what is the best resort to buy in to (direct), but taking into account cost (both BUY-IN and MF), enjoyment of resort, and enjoyment of owning DVC?

    (Hard question to answer)

    PS- love that you are on the DVC show!
     

    SG131

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Apr 3, 2017
    just for the record point chart can change and have changed.
    I meant the overall points at the resort. They can be redistributed, but they can’t raise the amount of points across the board for all room types and seasons.
     

    crvetter

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Nov 26, 2018
    I meant the overall points at the resort. They can be redistributed, but they can’t raise the amount of points across the board for all room types and seasons.
    Unless the resort doesn't have dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms, like BLT, SSR, VGF, VGC, etc. Because the total amount of points is based on the Lock-offs being booked as 2 bedrooms. So hypothetically (and they tried in the original 2020 point charts for some resorts) they could increase the studio and 1 bedroom points without decreasing the points on any other rooms because the total amount of points for the resort must stay the same considering the lock-offs booked as 2 bedrooms.
     

    skier_pete

    DIsney-holics Anon
    Joined
    Aug 17, 2006
    So you are well known for logical-realistic opinions.... what is the best resort to buy in to (direct), but taking into account cost (both BUY-IN and MF), enjoyment of resort, and enjoyment of owning DVC?

    (Hard question to answer)

    PS- love that you are on the DVC show!
    First is last: Thank you!!!

    That's such a hard answer to give - because the last two pieces are very subjective. (Enjoyment of a resort - enjoyment of owning DVC - what does that mean to YOU.) Some people want to just book there home resort and be done with it. Others will buy cheap and stalk the waitlist to upgrade whenever they can. Everyone is different.

    From a purely financial sense (resale-wise) I always like this source - which breaks down the value of points by length of contract, buy-in cost, and MF.

    Of course this doesn't take into account points per night, but merely the "value" of your points - taking into account both buy-in and MF. You'll note that the resorts with the shortest lifespan (2042 end date) have the worst value. (Riviera isn't on here yet, but you could calculate for yourself.) And truthfully #2 through #8 are all within less than $1 per point of the same value, with a swing in MF could easily shift those worths.

    I myself consider BLT a great value for a resort when you also consider actual points per night - because owning there allows you to move into the standard view rooms, but I haven't bought there because I don't really care for the resort that much. We have stuck with mostly AKV not because the value is high (it's kind of in the middle because the higher end MF) but because (a) we love the resort (b) the buy-in is on the more reasonable side and (c) the selection of low point-per-night room allows for more money saving options.

    A lot of my knowledge is driven by the value proposition of DVC - can I get the most for my money - but in the end you want to enjoy the resort. The best value proposition if you don't take resort desire into stay is "Buy at SSR, STAY at OKW." But you need to balance that with your own desires.
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    So you are well known for logical-realistic opinions.... what is the best resort to buy in to (direct), but taking into account cost (both BUY-IN and MF), enjoyment of resort, and enjoyment of owning DVC?

    (Hard question to answer)

    PS- love that you are on the DVC show!
    The resort you want to stay at. Because a BCV contract is the best value if what you want to do is regularly stay at BCV and won't enjoy owning DVC or enjoy another resort as much.
     

    Soap_1984

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Sep 30, 2019
    I think someone alluded to this but:
    Something like 70% of the studios are preferred view at Riv so I'd focus on comparing those to be fair as well;
    The mf are $2 per point higher at Riv than at vgf so, for instance, 100 points at vgf costs the same as 76 points at Riv (so you can afford more points) in terms of MF.

    Factoring in the location of the other resorts and that Riv is not a prime location, this is why people are saying the point chart is rich. We were looking at doing 4 nights in a studio preferred view in september and it was 22 points a night on average I think. Not horrible but still, to think you may spend $19k on 100 points, and $830 a year and can't even come close to getting a week...the point is Riv just has to be out of this world in terms of luxury and quality. Plenty of places charge $1000 a night, it's all about how good they are and the clientèle they are after.

    For me the location is a huge negative when looking at the price; I can buy BLT for $130-150 per point depending on the variables with a cheaper/comparable point chart, way cheaper MF and can walk to MK in 3 minutes. How will they convince me to part with much more money to buy at Riv? I don't know how they can but while the resale restrictions are in place I'll never even consider buying there regardless of how nice it is.
     

    DVC_HK

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 6, 2019
    Just my two cents but wouldn't RIV be considered an Epcot resort? With the skyliner right there it would take maybe 5 minutes to be in the France Pavilion as long as it doesn't break down. HS maybe 10 minutes away with the stop at the Caribbean hub
     

    CanadaDisney05

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2017
    For me the location is a huge negative when looking at the price; I can buy BLT for $130-150 per point depending on the variables with a cheaper/comparable point chart, way cheaper MF and can walk to MK in 3 minutes. How will they convince me to part with much more money to buy at Riv? I don't know how they can but while the resale restrictions are in place I'll never even consider buying there regardless of how nice it is.
    To be fair, your not comparing apples to apples. Those are resale prices vs direct
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    Just my two cents but wouldn't RIV be considered an Epcot resort? With the skyliner right there it would take maybe 5 minutes to be in the France Pavilion as long as it doesn't break down. HS maybe 10 minutes away with the stop at the Caribbean hub
    Sure, if you consider the Carribean Beach Resort the same as staying at the Yacht Club.
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    To be fair, your not comparing apples to apples. Those are resale prices vs direct
    You need to compare what direct benefits you will actually use. I've owned for fifteen plus years, and we've bought a SINGLE DVC annual pass. We went to a MM once - and wouldn't waste our time again. I think I've taken advantage of merchandise discounts twice and restaurant discounts once. If you don't use your direct benefits, than it is an apples to apples comparison. And most people won't use nearly enough direct benefits to make the delta at all worthwhile.
     

    DVC_HK

    Mouseketeer
    Joined
    Aug 6, 2019
    Sure, if you consider the Carribean Beach Resort the same as staying at the Yacht Club.
    In pricing they are apples and oranges but they are still close to the park. That is a perk to me and I would consider it an Epcot resort but I might be too new at this for that kind of input
     

    CanadaDisney05

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2017
    You need to compare what direct benefits you will actually use. I've owned for fifteen plus years, and we've bought a SINGLE DVC annual pass. We went to a MM once - and wouldn't waste our time again. I think I've taken advantage of merchandise discounts twice and restaurant discounts once. If you don't use your direct benefits, than it is an apples to apples comparison. And most people won't use nearly enough direct benefits to make the delta at all worthwhile.
    I'm not suggesting Direct > Resale. I'm just saying its not an apples to apples comparison. Direct pricing for BLT is somewhere around $235 per point, not $135 per point. Whether you personally would get any value out of a direct purchase over resale doesn't change the fact that your not comparing two products where the only differences are location and point charts. It's like comparing a brand new Lexus SUV to a used Corolla. The Corolla may be cheaper, but it's not necessarily a better deal because your really comparing two different products. Yes they are both vehicles and will both get you from Point A to Point B, but there are for more differences than just price and style.
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    In pricing they are apples and oranges but they are still close to the park. That is a perk to me and I would consider it an Epcot resort but I might be too new at this for that kind of input
    Disney also considers the Carribean Beach an Epcot area resort, and did before the Skyliner. But if you are talking about being able to walk to the park, it isn't. There is a difference between the Wilderness Lodge (where you have to take a boat or bus to the parks) and the Contemporary/Poly/Grand Floridian (where you can either walk or take the monorail - although walking to the MK will have to wait for the footpath for the Poly and GF.)
     

    crisi

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Feb 25, 2002
    I'm not suggesting Direct > Resale. I'm just saying its not an apples to apples comparison. Direct pricing for BLT is somewhere around $235 per point, not $135 per point. Whether you personally would get any value out of a direct purchase over resale doesn't change the fact that your not comparing two products where the only differences are location and point charts. It's like comparing a brand new Lexus SUV to a used Corolla. The Corolla may be cheaper, but it's not necessarily a better deal because your really comparing two different products. Yes they are both vehicles and will both get you from Point A to Point B, but there are for more differences than just price and style.
    But if you aren't going to take advantage of the perks, you ARE getting the same product. BCV direct and BCV resale - sans perks (which are not contractual and subject to change) are the same product.
     

    CanadaDisney05

    DIS Veteran
    Joined
    Mar 20, 2017
    But if you aren't going to take advantage of the perks, you ARE getting the same product. BCV direct and BCV resale - sans perks (which are not contractual and subject to change) are the same product.
    They are not for several reasons.

    1) Ease of transaction
    2) Ability to stay at "new" resorts
    3) prorated maintenance fees in first year
    4) Ability to pay by credit card and earn reward points
    5) Access to Membership benefits (which if you don't get an AP, is still 10% off food and 20% off merchandise)
    6) Buying late in the use year essentially gets you double points in year 1
    7) Points being available quicker
    8) Lower closing costs
    9) Ability to book cruises/Disney Concierge
    10) etc....

    I'm not suggesting any of these are worth the price of direct. I'm just saying that its not an apples to apples comparison.
     

    skippytx

    Bay Lake Tower
    Joined
    Aug 24, 2015
    Riv per point pricing during the initial offer with incentives really wasn't that bad. I think some folks around here picked up points at 168 a point after incentives, which isn't far off some of the more expensive resale resorts.

    I can see an argument to be made to buy direct at Riv over resale BCV or even BLT.

    Not every resort is for everyone. Many folks hate BLT, while I love it. Others love OKW while it does nothing for me. Same for AKV, too far away from things. If you don't like Riv that's ok, the wonderful thing about DVC is all the options.

    Riv dues are artificially high, similar to CCV who really hasn't seen dues increase since it opened, I think they over estimated the dues at first, and in 2 more years the other resorts will have closed the gap dues wise.

    I put quite a bit of thought into buying in at Riv, it just wasn't for me for 2 reasons

    1: The way we tour usually ends up with us at MK every night. We do 1 park in the AM, siesta for the afternoon, and hit MK at night. The walk back to BLT is priceless
    2: The point chart would have required me to buy 20 to 90 more points than I would need at BLT for the room I want. The extra dues over the years add up.


    The direct benefit discount can add up a bit as well. I've probably "saved" (aka spent a ton more money) over 2K so far using DVC discounts. Most of it was on our last 2 trips when we got discounted tickets to MNSSHP (9 tickets) and a couple DAH events (6 tickets x2). We also bought a couple of AP's back in Feb, plus random dining and merch discounts.
     

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