I watched it too, will be going to SW in the next few weeks. And yes, I do feel very good about myself. Why? I help people, children mostly, the unborn, that sort of thing, people are more important to me than animals.
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Blackfish
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I watched it too, will be going to SW in the next few weeks. And yes, I do feel very good about myself. Why? I help people, children mostly, the unborn, that sort of thing, people are more important to me than animals.
lucas
°o°
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2005
Me, too. I've told everyone at work about it. I will never go to a SeaWorld and hope they will all feel the same way.
lucas
°o°
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2005
I can definitely imagine that it would be life changing for you.
I don't work at a zoo but I can't get the film out of my mind.
Ginger Renae
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2005
I'm with you. I can't believe anyone could watch this film and still go to SeaWorld without feeling incredibly guilty. I want my daughter to have compassion for all living creatures. Orcas deserve our respect. It saddens me that people area so arrogant as to have no compassion for these amazing animals. They make me sick.
ariel71
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
Sonnyjane, I just want to say that I appreciate your insightful comments earlier in this thread, especially where it seemed like you were starting to get into a difficult place between "your" work and "the" work (in the broader sense). I made the decision years ago that I would no longer support zoos, waterparks, circuses, horse-drawn carriages, etc. And yet, I'm not a vegetarian. I wear leather. I think animal research is necessary to certain extents. If I have a hard time with the cognitive dissonance of "free the whales" and "I love steak" both being personal truths, I can only imagine how difficult it must be for someone who lives and breathes it every day. I wish you the best.
ariel71
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2010
Was just waiting for someone to "go there" and of course it's the same person as on the Taiji slaughter thread.
So you have a finite bucket of compassion for living things that can only be used for humans? Why are they mutually exclusive?
sonnyjane
DIS Veteran
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2009
Thanks
Our facility does quite a lot of conservation, and we are a non-profit so I can feel fairly good about that, but I've started conversations with some of the higher-ups, asking them to watch the film and opening up the floor to discussion to make sure that we stay on the "good" side of the fight. I can say that I think many of my co-workers are against the film because, obviously, it attacks what we do in a sense. That's fine and I respect their opinions, but I don't find anything factually wrong with what's been said in the film and therefore think those people defending the film are a bit in denial.
CPT Tripss
Registered
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2006
Totally confused about the 2 previous posters disagreement? Art 1 apparently didn't see the film we saw, BLACKFISH on HBO. I paid money to take my child to the killer whale show in the 1990's. Based on what I now know, I'll donate that money to make sure orcas are never held in captivity again.
And that attitude is causing there to be such a huge population explosion that species are being put at risk of extinction. We are part of the planet not the owners! We can't go on acting like we can do what we want there are consequences for the whales it's a much shortened lifespan and being driven insane for the trainers well there was a second trainer killed when Dawn Brancheau died. Let's not forget Alexis Martínez died as well. Here are a list of attacks that started before Sea world opened
There have been multiple attacks on humans by captive killer whales, with some of them being fatal.
In 1968, the young female orca, Lupa, of the New York Aquarium, chased her trainers out of the tank, snapping her jaws threateningly. Trainers were cleaning the tank at the time of the incident.[17]
In 1970, Cuddles, a male orca who resided in both the Dudley Zoo and Flamingo Park (now Flamingo Land) in England, became so aggressive towards his trainers, having attacked them twice, that his keepers were forced to clean his pool from the safety of a shark cage.[17]
On April 20, 1971, SeaWorld secretary Annette Eckis Godsey was talked into riding the park's main attraction, a 10-year-old female orca named Shamu, at the park in San Diego, California as a publicity stunt. As the ride was coming to an end Godsey was suddenly thrown off the whale's back. The orca seized the woman by her leg and began pushing her through the water. Trainers on the side of the tank grabbed the young woman and attempted to pull her out of the water but the whale again grabbed a hold of the woman's leg and refused to let go. Shamu's jaws had to be pried apart with a pole in order to free her.[18] Godsey was carried away on a stretcher and required 200 stitches to close the wounds she suffered.[19] Shamu may have done this out of curiosity, as Godsey was wearing a bikini while riding the orca, instead of the traditional wet suit that is usually worn.[20] Godsey later said the whale was being playful.[21]
In the early 1970s, a Marine World/Africa USA trainer, Jeff Pulaski, while riding a young female orca named Kianu during performances, was thrown off and chased out of the tank.[22]
At the same park, also in the early 1970s, an unidentified Marine World trainer was seized by the young male Orky II, and held at the bottom of the tank until the man nearly lost consciousness.[17]
In the early 1970s, trainer Manny Velasco recalls both Hugo and Lolita of the Miami Seaquarium becoming aggressive, lunging and snapping at the trainers standing on the center work island ending the training session for the day.[17]
In the early 1970s, during a water work session Hugo refused to allow trainer Chip Kirk to get out of the water, Kirk explained to a journalist from the Palm Beach Post. Hugo bit him several times on the arm badly enough to leave a scar, which Kirk showed to the reporter.[23]
In the early 1970s, Hugo grabbed trainer Bob Pulaski by the wetsuit and began thrashing him, Pulaski struggled but it only made things worse, then Hugo's tank mate Lolita joined in and began a tug of war. Pulaski managed to free himself from the tangled wetsuit and get to safety. Pulaski did not mention if he sustained any injuries. In both incidents Kirk and Pulaski believe the orcas were only playing.[23]
On May 2, 1978, another Marineland of the Pacific trainer, 27-year-old Jill Stratton, had an incident with Orky II. Stratton was nearly drowned when the 10-year-old Orky II suddenly grabbed the young woman and dragged her to the bottom of the tank, holding her there for nearly 4 minutes.[24][25]
In the 1970s, another Marine World California trainer, Dave Worcester, was dragged to the bottom of the tank by the park's young male orca, Nepo.[22]
In the 1970s, a Vancouver Aquarium trainer, Doug Pemberton, recalls that, "Skana once showed her dislike by dragging a trainer around the pool. Her teeth sank into his wetsuit but missed his leg." Pemberton described both young female Skana and her male companion Hyak II as "moody", but stated that Skana was the dominant animal in the pool. "She is capable of changing moods in minutes".[26]
In the 1970s, trainer Chris Christiansen received 7 stitches in his cheek after young male orca Hugo closed his mouth on Christiansen's head.[17]
On February 23, 1984, a 7-year-old female orca by the name of Kandu V grabbed a SeaWorld California trainer, Joanne Hay, and pinned her against a tank wall during a performance.[27] Hay was let go after another trainer jammed a fist into the whale's blowhole.[28]
In November 1986, trainer Mark Beeler was held against a wall by Kandu V during a live performance.[29]
In 1986, an unidentified MarineLand, Ontario trainer was taken to the hospital after he fell off the park's male killer whale, Kandu 7 (not to be confused with Kandu V), and was dragged by his leg around the pool during a trick.[30]
In 1986, a 4-year-old female orca, Nootka V (not to be confused with Nootka IV), whacked an unidentified MarineLand, Ontario trainer in the head with her pectoral during a show. According to a former trainer, the whale had a habit of leaping out of the water in an attempt to strike trainers by the pool in the chest.[30]
On March 4, 1987, 20-year-old SeaWorld San Diego trainer, Jonathan Smith, was grabbed by one of the park's 6-ton killer whales. The orca dragged the trainer to the bottom of the tank, then carried him bleeding all the way back to the surface and then spat him out. Smith gallantly waved to the crowd when a second orca slammed into him. He continued to pretend he was unhurt as the whales repeatedly dragged him to the bottom of the stadium pool. Smith was cut all around his torso, had a ruptured kidney and a six-inch laceration of his liver, yet he managed to escape the pool with his life. Later reports indicate that the whales involved in the attack had been 10-year-old female Kenau and 9-year-old female Kandu V.[27][31]
On June 15, 1987, a 29-year-old SeaWorld San Diego trainer, Joanne Webber, suffered a fractured neck when Kandu V, a 9-year-old female orca, landed on top of her and pushed her to the bottom of the pool during a training session. Webber had five years of experience working with orcas.[32]
On November 21, 1987, trainer John Sillick was riding on the back of a female orca when Orky II, a five-ton male, jumped and landed upon him.[33] Sillick had to have multiple surgeries; his back, hips, pelvis, ribs and legs were severely fractured.[34] The incident led to the firing of SeaWorld's president and 3 other employees.[35] In an interview, he said, "I'm learning to walk again."[36]
On April 1, 1989, Nootka IV of Sealand of the Pacific pulled her trainer, Henriette Huber, into the whale tank after the 6-year-old female bit down while the trainer had her hand in the mouth of the orca in order to scratch its tongue. Huber needed several stitches in order to close her wounds.[37]
Later that same year (1989), Nootka IV of Sealand of the Pacific grabbed a tourist's camera that was accidentally dropped into the whale's tank. Head trainer Steve Huxter attempted to retrieve the camera but was pulled into the pool when the orca refused to give up its new toy. The orca grabbed a hold of the trainer's leg but Huxter was pulled to safety by fellow trainer Eric Walters.[38]
On February 20, 1991, the three orcas that resided at Sealand of the Pacific in Victoria, British Columbia (Haida II, Nootka IV, and Tilikum) killed a young part-time trainer named Keltie Byrne when she accidentally slipped and her foot fell into the tank.[39] This facility did not allow the trainers to get in the water with the animals so the orcas were not accustomed to having people in their tank. It is unclear which orca initiated the assault but rumored to be Tilikum based on the interviews done for the documentary "Blackfish." It is alleged that Tilikum grabbed the trainer by the foot and dragged her into the water, and the other two quickly joined in, pushing and throwing the young woman around the pool.[40] All three animals barred her escape, continuously blocking her path and dragging her back into the center of the tank. Sealand staff tried unsuccessfully to distract the orcas with fish, noise, voice and hand commands. It was several hours before Ms. Byrne's body could be recovered.[41] Sealand of the Pacific closed soon after the incident and sold all of their orcas to the SeaWorld franchise; Haida II and her calf Kyuquot (who was born sometime after the incident) were both moved to SeaWorld Texas. Haida II eventually died in 2001. Nootka IV and Tilikum were both transferred to the SeaWorld in Florida. Nootka IV passed away in 1994. Tilikum was directly responsible for another trainer's death in 2010. See later bullet. Haida II and Nootka IV were both impregnated by Tilikum at the time of the accident.
In 1993, 14-year-old female Kasatka tried to bite an unidentified SeaWorld California trainer (not Kenneth Peters).[42]
On July 5, 1999, at SeaWorld Orlando Florida, a deceased, homeless man by the name of Daniel Dukes was found nude and in one of the orca tanks draped across the back of the park's largest male orca, Tilikum. This was one of the three Orcas involved in the death of Sealand of the Pacific trainer Keltie Byrne in 1991. An autopsy revealed that the man died of a combination of hypothermia and drowning. Dukes was covered in bruises, abrasions and bite marks, and his scrotum had been ripped open,[43] indicating that Tilikum had clear contact with the victim but whether or not Tilikum actually caused the man's death could not be determined.[44] Dukes had apparently hidden himself in the park until after closing and then entered the orca's tank. It is thought that Dukes may have been mentally unstable or under the influence of drugs. Dukes had been reported by Seaworld staff to have "dived" with other sea mammals, earlier that year he had to be removed from the manatee tank, which is warmer and hosts much more docile creatures. A joint of marijuana was found in the pile of clothes he left next to the tank. No Seaworld admission ticket was found, but staff made it well known that this man did not fall into Tilikum's tank. He had to hop a 3 foot plexiglass barrier, several guardrail fences and descend the steps into the 80X100 tank.[45] The autopsy shows that some scratches and bites he received were post mortem.[citation needed]
On June 12, 1999, 22-year-old Kasatka grabbed her trainer Ken Peters by the leg and attempted to throw him from the pool during a public show at SeaWorld San Diego.[2]
On July 8, 2002, a trainer by the name of Tamaree was hospitalized for a broken arm and several minor injuries after an incident occurred in Shamu Stadium at SeaWorld Florida. The 28-year-old trainer was doing poolside work with two of the park's orcas, Orkid and Splash. "She was playing with the whales, talking to them& the next thing we know, as it appears from the video, she was pulled into the water," said SeaWorld spokesperson Darla Davis. Visitor video shows that the trainer was pulled in by her foot after the female Orkid grabbed a hold of it during the session. Both Orkid and Splash continuously pulled the trainer under as she screamed for help. A fellow trainer made the decision to make as if to let in a more dominate female into the pool. Orkid who was holding the trainer at the time dropped her and Tamaree was able to escape. Park officials stated that the trainer exited the pool without assistance and was taken to a local hospital, where a pin was needed to reset her arm.[46][47]
In late July 2004, during a show at the SeaWorld park in San Antonio, Texas, a male orca named Kyuquot (nickname Ky) repeatedly jumped on top of his trainer, Steve Aibel, forcing him underwater and barred the trainer from escaping the water. After several minutes the trainer was able to calm the animal and he exited the pool unhurt.[48] "Veterinarians believe the whale... felt threatened by the trainer, perhaps a result of the effects of adolescent hormones."[49][50]
On April 4, 2005, SeaWorld Florida trainer Sam Davis was repeatedly "bumped" by an 11-year-old male orca named Taku. The show continued uninterrupted but the trainer was later taken to Sand Lake Hospital for unspecified minor injuries and released the same day. Additional eyewitness account: "The trainer and Taku were about to slide on the slide out at the end of the show when Taku completely stopped and started "bumping" the trainer. The trainer was male and he finally swam out of the tank. I knew something was wrong because none of the whales except Kalina wanted to perform. Then they finally got Taku out to splash people at the end of the show, when this incident took place."[51]
On November 15, 2006, a SeaWorld California trainer was injured when the park's 18-year-old female killer whale, Orkid, grabbed veteran trainer Brian Rokeach by the foot and pulled him to the bottom of the tank, refusing to release him for an extended period of time. Orkid released Rokeach only after heeding fellow trainer Kenneth Peters's repeated attempts to call the animal's attention back to the stage. Rokeach suffered a torn ligament in his ankle but was not taken to the hospital. In response to the incident, SeaWorld increased the number of trainers who must be available during performances and in water training to five staff members, but this was ineffective because a fortnight later trainer Kenneth Peters was involved in a similar incident with a different orca.[52][53]See next bullet for Peters attack.
On November 29, 2006, Kasatka, one of SeaWorld San Diego's seven orcas, grabbed her trainer, Kenneth Peters, by the foot and dragged him to the bottom of the tank several times during an evening show at Shamu Stadium. The senior trainer barely escaped, after 9 terrifying minutes, when Kasatka released him. The whale chased and tried to grab him again, after he got out of the pool. This was the second documented incident of Kasatka attacking Peters and was the third most widely reported of all the SeaWorld incidents.[2]
On October 6, 2007, at the Loro Parque a 29-year-old German trainer, Claudia Vollhardt, who had worked at the park since 2003, was hospitalized after she was injured during a training session with the male orca Tekoa.[54] The Canarias 7 newspaper says the incident happened at the pre-show warm up on Saturday, when the orca crashed into the trainer, injuring her right lung and breaking her forearm in two places. OME News wrote that it was a male orca that hit the trainer and dragged her down after the impact. Then that same animal dragged her back up to the surface. She was rescued by two colleagues after the incident. The trainer was in a stable condition after surgery. Vollhardt trained mostly with 6-year-old male Tekoa and some news reports referred to him as the orca involved in this incident.[55]
On September 9, 2008, during a show at Marineland Antibes in France, a 26-year-old female orca named Freya began acting oddly in the middle of the show then pulled an unidentified trainer under the water. The trainer resurfaced after a few seconds only for Freya to return and begin jumping on top of the man. After landing on top of her trainer twice, she began to push him through and under the water. The trainer tried to regain control of the situation by climbing on the orca's back but was thrown off. The trainer eventually managed to get to the edge of the pool and climb out, seemingly unhurt.[56]
In the spring of 2009, a 5-year-old female orca named Skyla turned on an unidentified trainer while performing in one of Loro Parque Tenerife's daily shows. Skyla started pushing her trainer through the water and up against the sides of the pool. "Water work" has been suspended with her and only senior trainers are allowed to work with her now.[57]
On December 24, 2009, 29-year-old Alexis Martínez died during a rehearsal for a Christmas Day show at the Loro Parque Park in Spain. The 14-year-old male orca, Keto, who was born at SeaWorld Orlando Florida, reportedly rammed Martínez in the chest, rendering him unconscious. Martinez supposedly drowned before fellow trainers could rescue him. The park repeatedly asserted that this was not an attack but an unfortunate accident caused by roughhousing, however the park also describe Keto as "not... (being) completely predictable." The subsequent autopsy report revealed that Alexis died due to the serious injuries he sustained from the orca attack, including multiple compression fractures and tears to his vital organs with the bite marks all over his body.[58] Martinez was considered one of the most experienced trainers in Loro Parque, having worked at the park since 2004.[59]
Tilikum, who has been involved in 3 deaths, swims in the Dine with Shamu exhibit in Orlando, Florida.
On February 24, 2010, the orca Tilikum killed Dawn Brancheau,[60] an experienced trainer, at the end of a "Dine with Shamu" show at SeaWorld Orlando.[60] SeaWorld officials confirmed that Tilikum grabbed Dawn Brancheau by her left arm and pulled her into the water, drowning her.[61] The autopsy determined that the trainer died of "multiple traumatic injuries and drowning".[62] Note that Tilikum was involved in two previous fatalities. See bullets February 20, 1991 and July 5, 1999.
Fallout from Brancheau's Death: SeaWorld has since been fined by OSHA for $75,000 for "willfully" endangering its employees. OSHA stated that the company "(shows) Plain indifference to or intentional disregard for employee safety and health." SeaWorld has challenged OSHA's claims stating that "OSHA's allegations in this citation are unsupported by any evidence or precedent and reflect a fundamental lack of understanding of the safety requirements associated with marine mammal care."[63] SeaWorld has taken OSHA to court to challenge the fine and safety report.[64] All three of SeaWorld's parks have not allowed their trainers in the water with the animals since the incident between Dawn and Tilikum.[65] In late May 2012, Judge Ken S. Welsch formally sided with OSHA over SeaWorld's killer whale safety practices following the death of Dawn Brancheau. Welsch was sharply critical of SeaWorld's assertion that it was unaware that working with killer whales posed a hazard to employees. Welsch stated it is "implausible" and "difficult to reconcile" with comments repeatedly made by management and with the litany of trainer incidents and injuries that have occurred over the years. Welsch did, however, agree that the fine classification was too severe and had it downgraded from "willful" ($75,000) to "serious" ($12,000) stating that the company had emphasized trainer safety even if the safety procedures weren't effective. Welsch made it clear that his ruling only applies "to the work trainers do during shows and not at other times, such as during medical procedures or 'relationship-building' sessions... As a custodian SeaWorld has an ethical duty to provide for the whales needs... husbandry activities require a certain amount of contact between the trainers and whales... unlike performances, which can successfully continue without the trainers in the water." OSHA did state that they would accept other means of protection as long as it provided equal or greater safety as the physical barriers. SeaWorld is currently testing quick rising pool floors and "spare air" systems in an attempt to get their staff back in the water during shows.[66] They have also started the appeals process to have Judge Welsch's ruling over turned. But there has already been a set back because on July 17 of the same year an independent review commission in Washington refused to look over the case. SeaWorld has yet to decide on their next course of action. "SeaWorld will decide within the next 60 days whether to appeal to the United States Court of Appeals."[67]
The solution has been said before retire, don't breed any more and move on.
EAW
Earning My Ears
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2013
I am very excited to see this movie! I missed it when it played on CNN. I can not say how I feel about Sea World at this point because I have not seen the documentary. I don't know if it is a propagandist piece or overly swayed, or simply factual (and I will not have conclusive evidence for myself until I watch it), but I find animal behavior studies very interesting. There is no doubt in my mind that whales are sentient!
lucas
°o°
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2005
FLSarah
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Oct 9, 2013
People are animals, and who says you can't have compassion for both? What does helping people have to do with animals in captivity? It's great that you help people and it's your choice whether or not to visit Sea World, I just don't see what one has to do with the other.
Everyone needs to make up their own minds on all of it.
I wont go to Seaworld... but I woudlnt go before seeing the film.
I dont like seeing animals held, even at reputable zoo's.
I just dont like it. My personal feelings.
But, please dont think that ONLY SEAWORLD is like what the film exposed.
MANY places are the same way, with various animals.
Money trumps too many other things for too many people.
I wont go to Seaworld... but I woudlnt go before seeing the film.
I dont like seeing animals held, even at reputable zoo's.
I just dont like it. My personal feelings.
But, please dont think that ONLY SEAWORLD is like what the film exposed.
MANY places are the same way, with various animals.
Money trumps too many other things for too many people.
Ginger Renae
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2005
I stopped even wanting to go to SeaWorld after I saw The Cove. *shudders* I wish everyone who thinks they need to swim with dolphins was required to watch it.
HollyL
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2012
Yes, you are right. It's not just Seaworld, the film focused on Seaworld because the "star" of the film is Tilikum who happens to be "owned" by SW. If the film were to remain 1.5 hours long, they could only really focus on one place. There is also a documentary that focuses on Lolita at the Miami Seaquarium. I cannot remember what that film was called, I think something about Lolita, slave to enterainment. I found it on Youtube. Now, she never killed anyone, but her story is probably one of the saddest out there. It is a known fact who her family is and where they can be found. She BELONGS to a resident pod in the Pacific Northwest, whose matriarch is an orca known as "Granny" who is over 100 years old (Google it, this is amazing). Lolita's mother is still alive, and Lolita deserves to retire and possibly be reunited with her family. If this were to actually happen, and it was successful, there would be more pressure than ever for the rest of the wild-caught orcas to be released.
Sadly, there will still be some selfish people on here that value their entertainment over the welfare of their fellow creatures. We can just hope that they are the exception to the rule. Some people will just never "get it" or they choose not to "get it".
Sadly, there will still be some selfish people on here that value their entertainment over the welfare of their fellow creatures. We can just hope that they are the exception to the rule. Some people will just never "get it" or they choose not to "get it".
HollyL
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2012
Yes, I have enjoyed reading your posts. Up until I was about 19, I had planned on being a Zoologist/Animal trainer myself. I had decided that I was going to train dolphins and orcas at the age of 8 and actually chose my college because it had a heavy concentration on the ocean and the sciences. I even volunteered for years at the San Francisco Zoo. I entered college as a Zoology major, but before my Freshman year ended, I had a change of heart and ended up in Law Enforcement. Yeah...that was a big change! To this day I still love animals and would love to work with them, but knowing what I know, I think I did the right thing.
I can certainly understand the predicament you are in, and wish the best of luck to you in your future endeavors.
Awww... that sounds terrible. I hope she does get to retire back to her pod. I will look it up, thanks!
http://timzimmermann.com/2013/11/05/the-power-of-art-who-is-shamu/
This is a link to a wonderful poster that shows the captive Sea World whales and their fate.
This is a link to a wonderful poster that shows the captive Sea World whales and their fate.
HollyL
Mouseketeer
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2012
I just want to say, with the exception of a couple of people on here, ya'll are a bunch of great people, and very intelligent and compassionate and genuinely care about the well being of orcas. I can only pray that more and more people learn about their terrible plight and also have the same compassion and we can all work together to put an end to orca (and other cetatean) display. I am committed more than ever, to spread the word and educate people. I live in Houston, and because there isn't a whole lot to do here, a lot of people head out to San Antonio a few hours down the road because there are numerous attractions out there, including Sea World. The best I can do is encourage them to watch "Blackfish" and other films that focus on orcas and how bad captivity is for them. I know our family will be back to San Antonio, but Seaworld will never be on our itinerary again!
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