Blackfish

[jrmasm]

From months of reviews and reading this thread, I thought this movie was going to be a documentary focusing on why Orcas should not be held in captivity. While I think that point was in there, I think it actually more effectively made the case that Sea World is putting humans at risk by sending trainers into the water with Orcas.

I agree.

 

[Embel]

I also couldn't help but consider the thought that once an Orca trainer leaves Sea World, there aren't any real options for them in the USA for continued work for and with their animal of choice aside from activism.

A horse trainer can move to another stable. A dolphin trainer or seal trainer has many more option in Aquariums across the US. I believe there is only one other Aquarium or park in the US that has an Orca, the Miami Seaquarium.

 

[lexandme]

SeaWorld and Fans Avoid “Blackfish” by Changing the Subject
Posted on October 26, 2013 by cetaceaninspiration

At 9pm E.T. on October 24th, “Blackfish” premiered nationwide on CNN and 1.36 million households tuned in to watch. Audiences were prepped for the premiere as CNN dedicated an entire week to the topic of killer whale captivity. The network featured a lengthy investigation of the issue by Jane Velez-Mitchell, interviews with “Blackfish” director Gabriella Cowperthwaite, and lively discussions on the topic between animal advocates and SeaWorld defenders.

After the premiere, audiences were asked whether they would take their kids to SeaWorld. 86% of respondents said no. Anderson Cooper followed the film with a special report focusing on killer whale captivity and questioning industry representatives like Jungle Jack Hanna. Twitter was dominated by #BlackfishOnCNN and SeaWorld Facebook pages lit up with comments from angry fans cancelling season passes and demanding answers from their favorite marine park.

SeaWorld has issued a couple responses toward the film since its theatrical release, but the answers they are giving the public in these responses are less than satisfying. One of the main arguments brought against “Blackfish” by SeaWorld and fans is that it does not mention the company’s work with conservation and rescue. This is an obvious attempt to change the subject. The ethics of keeping killer whales in captivity is totally irrelevant to conservation and rescue programs. Using these programs to justify killer whale captivity is a bit like defending an abusive person because they volunteer at a soup kitchen. The two are not related. Just because someone does something “good” does not mean that they are excused to do something evil.

In fact, the “good” of SeaWorld’s rescue and rehabilitation efforts have been called into question. The park mostly rehabilitates and releases manatees, sea birds and sea turtles which are not entertainment animals. It has been said that staff will train rescued entertainment animals like dolphins, whales and sea lions to see how well they take to doing tricks. Those that prove to be submissive performers remain in captivity, those that do not submit are eventually released. SeaWorld has also been criticized for their failure to follow up on releases to see if the animals they save actually survive.

Not only is the nature of SeaWorld’s rescue program under question, but it should be noted that these efforts to save wild animals are NOT funded by SeaWorld! The program is operated by a non-profit organisation, the Hubbs-SeaWorld Research Institute, who funds these efforts with government grants. SeaWorld’s conservation fund is also largely supported by grants and public donations.

Since these efforts do not rely on money from animal shows, SeaWorld could easily stop keeping animals for entertainment purposes, and simply continue their conservation and rescue programs. In the meantime, we should continue to pressure SeaWorld and fans to provide answers to the topic at hand: the ethics of killer whale captivity, rather than allowing them to divert attention to an unrelated topic.


May I also respond to a pp remark that working in a steel mill is dangerous. Of course it is, as are thousands of jobs, including "orca trainer". But keep in mind you chose to do that job. The orcas and dolphins in captivity did not have a choice.


I also couldn't help but consider the thought that once an Orca trainer leaves Sea World, there aren't any real options for them in the USA for continued work for and with their animal of choice aside from activism.

A horse trainer can move to another stable. A dolphin trainer or seal trainer has many more option in Aquariums across the US. I believe there is only one other Aquarium or park in the US that has an Orca, the Miami Seaquarium.
Today 08:55 AM

Thank God they have limited options to continue doing this dirty work!

Cetacean captivity sucks. These animals are not suited to captivity. Like Blackfish or not, the conversation is still going strong.

 

[summerrluvv]

There is a phenomenal documentary on Netflix about the Orcas. It's truly amazing and it really puts into light what a sham SeaWorld is. These are amazing and powerful animals who do NOT need to be "waving" to a crowd for food.

Poor things.

Do you recall the name of it?

 

[Embel]

Cetacean captivity sucks.

I don't disagree.

These animals are not suited to captivity.

I found that most of what the movie was saying could be applied to horses. They are majestic creatures who inspire awe when viewed in their wild habitat. Their range can be huge, depending upon the food supply. Mustangs were often caught in disturbing manners. Humans often separate horses from their mothers or their herds at young ages, or older ages for human convenience. Horses are trained through punishment or through rewards to perform extensions of their own behavior for our enjoyment. Horses often bite their stalls out of frustration and boredom. They are often kept in paddocks with other horses, and have no way to escape when a scuffle ensues. They are bred, often manually, for human purposes. Sometimes a horse intentionally hurts or even kills humans.


My daughter rides horses. It's not convenient for me to see these parallels. Not in the least. It's easy to be outraged about the Orcas. I don't have one and I'm not getting one. But the dilemma I'm facing is that if all of those details upset me about Orcas, then they should upset me about horses, too. And probably almost all animals in captivity.

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

Though I am really not a huge animal performing fan, just not my favorite sourse of entertainment, and I totally agree that tight living space seems horrible. I hate when documentaries try to twist things. The whole starving thing seemed to me was objectable, all animal trainers reward animals with food, show dogs etc. It just hate it when documentaries put in their opinions and try to make it fact to strengthen their view.
The rest of it was so disturbing that I overlooked the hearsay type info, but I hate when it is done. It ruins the rest to me often.

 

[CPT Tripss]

As far as food rewards go . . . Just because everyone does it... Also big difference between a treat and withholding food to induce compliance.

Horses . . . Have been domesticated for thousands of years and only one true natural wild population exists and that species was reintroduced decades after going extinct in the wild.

 

[lexandme]

Dominic Monaghan ("Lost") stated: "Saddest thing about Blackfish is to make the story have any REAL effect it has to come at HUMAN cost, not just the clear cost to the whale".

 

[Cogswel_Cogs]

As far as food rewards go . . . Just because everyone does it... Also big difference between a treat and withholding food to induce compliance.

Horses . . . Have been domesticated for thousands of years and only one true natural wild population exists and that species was reintroduced decades after going extinct in the wild.

I agree but to me the withholding to me seems very difficult to prove and seemed unnecessary but IMO was done intentionally to worsen Sea World's actions compared to other types of training. I hate when I get the feel, that the people are trying to strengthen their point by adding that is not a fact or hardened with evidence. I am not saying I am right it just came over that way to me.

 

[micknpluto]

The manatees at Epcot absolutely must be kept in captivity as they are both rescues from boating accidents and are both deformed from those accidents. If they hadn't been rescued from the wild, they would die or have serious health issues. If you go to the viewing areas at The Seas, you can see the scarred places on their bodies. As for the dolphins kept in captivity at Epcot, opinions on that topic vary - if you go back several pages in this thread there was a lively discussion on that issue.

Thank you for posting this. I had no idea.

 

[Sleestack]

Stealing the baby from its pod was about when I had to turn it off
Hearing the cries and watching how the males tried to turn a different way to distract the hunters while the females and babies went another way....
These animals were THINKING and FEELING. No matter how much of a weenie that makes me, I cant watch it.

 

[Tinkerdreams]

Stealing the baby from its pod was about when I had to turn it off
Hearing the cries and watching how the males tried to turn a different way to distract the hunters while the females and babies went another way....
These animals were THINKING and FEELING. No matter how much of a weenie that makes me, I cant watch it.

I cannot watch this movie. I would be in tears the entire time. If you have Netflix, there is a documovie called The Whale. It's about a 2 year old ORCA that gets separated from its pod and befriends an entire town.

Talk about people being idiots - at one point in this movie, the town actually says if anyone looks at this whale, they will be fined $100,000. The township did not make a real effort to reunite this ORCA with its pod. And during this movie, it sounded like they new where the pod was. Ugh!!

 

[ariel71]

I worked in steel for eight years, the two places I worked have much worse track records than SW. I was at the first place for four years, in that time one person lost a hand, another lost an arm. The second place I worked had two people killed in seven years, along with one person crushing their foot and being permanently disabled. There were many other smaller injuries, if you got hurt you were nursed back to health then fired. As I said the way I see it many jobs have an inherent risk, SW's record doesn't seem that bad to ME.


From what I had read here I thought the film was about the mistreatment of animals. The only thing I recall at SW was them taking the baby, and the animals attacking each other. The worst things they showed were not at SW, which tells me again as a skeptic(as one should always be when taking a position) they didn't have the goods on SW mistreating animals. I am still on the fence about the issue, I am honestly more skeptical of the movement after watching this film. That is my opinion, if you disagree that's fine. After all ya know what they say about opinions.

Even if a single trainer had never been injured, the mistreatment of orcas is so obvious that it shouldn't have to be spoon-fed to you. I guess you think that having your child forcibly removed from your home at 4 years-old, sticking him in a one-room shack with two abusive strangers with whips, only allowed out to the front porch to do tricks for a few hours, and being locked in the bathroom and not fed well at any sign of rebellion is not "mistreatment". For his ENTIRE LIFE.

"The worst things they showed were not at Sea World?" What exactly are the "worst things"? That's like saying that being beaten is better than being stabbed.

 

[lexandme]

The manatees at Epcot absolutely must be kept in captivity as they are both rescues from boating accidents and are both deformed from those accidents. If they hadn't been rescued from the wild, they would die or have serious health issues. If you go to the viewing areas at The Seas, you can see the scarred places on their bodies.

As for the dolphins kept in captivity at Epcot, opinions on that topic vary - if you go back several pages in this thread there was a lively discussion on that issue.

Many of the EPCOT manatees have been able to be rehabbed and released or rehabbed and sent to other enclosures.
Unfortunately the EPCOT dolphins are not given the same treatment. They are kept captive in that small, loud, dark tank with no consideration for release.

 

[mrsclark]

Many of the EPCOT manatees have been able to be rehabbed and released or rehabbed and sent to other enclosures.
Unfortunately the EPCOT dolphins are not given the same treatment. They are kept captive in that small, loud, dark tank with no consideration for release.

But I think the manatees there now have to be kept in captivity because their injuries whether at Epcot or somewhere else - I thought their injuries (of the two currently there) were too severe to rehab and release?

 

[HollyL]

Oh, that's ok, we were planning to go in January.
Haven't been for twenty years but this thread reminded me how good it was.
Thanks

ford family

Wow....really? Did you even see the film? Honestly, anyone who watches it, and still thinks SeaWorld is great, obviously doesn't give a poop about animals, and values their own entertainment over the well-being of God's beautiful creatures.

I for one, refuse to raise my children to believe that keeping such social and intelligent animals in tiny enclosures and exploiting them to make money is okay in any way.

But, if you just want to be entertained by watching these mentally anguished creatures, then I guess that is your right. If that is what floats your boat, I hope you feel good about yourself.

 

[sonnyjane]

Wow....really? Did you even see the film? Honestly, anyone who watches it, and still thinks SeaWorld is great, obviously doesn't give a poop about animals, and values their own entertainment over the well-being of God's beautiful creatures. I for one, refuse to raise my children to believe that keeping such social and intelligent animals in tiny enclosures and exploiting them to make money is okay in any way. But, if you just want to be entertained by watching these mentally anguished creatures, then I guess that is your right. If that is what floats your boat, I hope you feel good about yourself.

I'm telling myself that the poster you quoted said that simply to stir the pot. I think a vast majority of people that saw the film at least have taken pause before visiting Sea World if not deciding to skip the park altogether.

 

[HollyL]

Yeah, I think you're right. I have made it a personal agenda of mine to make sure everyone I know is at least aware of this film, and I am urging them all to watch it. I honestly think the majority of people who see it will never want to go to Seaworld or any other park that has captive orcas or other large cetaceans. One of my co-workers had been to SW before (we live in Texas, and there is a SW in San Antonio) and had no idea, and was appauled by what he learned in the film.

 

[sonnyjane]

Yeah, I think you're right. I have made it a personal agenda of mine to make sure everyone I know is at least aware of this film, and I am urging them all to watch it. I honestly think the majority of people who see it will never want to go to Seaworld or any other park that has captive orcas or other large cetaceans. One of my co-workers had been to SW before (we live in Texas, and there is a SW in San Antonio) and had no idea, and was appauled by what he learned in the film.

Not sure if you've read all of this voluminous thread, but I work at a zoo and this film has greatly impacted my life. I have a feeling it's going to influence many decisions I make in the next few years... I can say it's been life-changing
.

 

[ford family]

Wow....really? Did you even see the film? Honestly, anyone who watches it, and still thinks SeaWorld is great, obviously doesn't give a poop about animals, and values their own entertainment over the well-being of God's beautiful creatures.

I for one, refuse to raise my children to believe that keeping such social and intelligent animals in tiny enclosures and exploiting them to make money is okay in any way.

But, if you just want to be entertained by watching these mentally anguished creatures, then I guess that is your right. If that is what floats your boat, I hope you feel good about yourself.

Looking forward to it. Not sure whether to stay at BWV on points or at the Crowne Plaza. We have to be at MCO in the afternoon to drop family off at the airport so we thought we would linger a few days before heading back to the coast, go to the outlet mall and spend a day at SeaWorld.
You are welcome to your opinion about anything and everything and I can see from your post that it is not just killer whales that we disagree about but we are equally entitled to our opinion.
Thank you for keeping your response civil.

ford family