Children Moving Out?

[bdcp]

Mine are 33 and 35 now, but they went away to college at 18 but came home for all breaks and some weekends. They both came back home after graduation for a few months before starting their after college careers (worked during that time to fill the gap), but both moved out into apartments with at least one roommate before moving on to their own places. Oldest bought a townhouse at 24 by himself. Youngest and our DIL bought their first townhome at 31, but that was mainly due to a couple of moves out of state and back so they rented. Both had good jobs right out of college and worked during college part time. As I told people over the years our job was to raise independent adults, which we did. We did not give either of them any money for house down payments. We did pay for college and provide them with a car while they were in school, but raised them to support themselves. They're supposed to want to move out. We love our boys, but we didn't want them to be dependent on others so we made sure they could take care of themselves as fully functioning adults, like our parents did.

BTW, we live in a very high cost of living area - DC suburbs in NoVA. That also means jobs pay more and unemployment is low. If it's hard to find a good paying job where they're living, maybe they should consider moving somewhere where there are better paying jobs.

 

[disykat]

Ooh I’m super interested on how the co-buying has worked out for them. I mentioned this to my roommate once and he scoffed at the idea, but I think it would make way more sense financially in the long run. Did they split everything equally? Down payment, mortgage, etc.?

The biggest key is having someone you trust. It wouldn't work for everyone, but has for them. They are big nerds and sort of did a Big Bang Theory "roommate agreement" in writing. For example, they agreed to stay in the investment for 5 years (the time it would take for one of them to be able to buy out the other if they wanted to,) and wrote out all the possible scenarios. My son's roommate had been out of school for one year longer and had some money from his family (his family gave him nothing toward college, but money towards a downpayment - opposite of what we had done) so his portion of the downpayment was higher. They lived together in a one bedroom for a year saving up money to do it, so they were pretty dedicated. They wrote out how that would work when they sold, etc. They bought a four bedroom, his roommate got the master, and they rented out two rooms (now three, since my son moved out when they got married.) The rent they get pretty much covers their mortgage.

I had a roommate suggest this to me once (many years ago!) but I was not interested. Our roommate relationship went south not long after, so boy was I relieved! It would truly have to be the right person to consider it. They're both pretty concrete thinkers so it's not a real emotional deal for them, just an investment. I think that's what makes it work.

My other son doesn't live in the city. He is looking at buying after a year, but will do it on his own.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Yes, my kids' choices are fairly unusual, but they haven't done anything that the average college grad can't do --


-- yes -- my four-years-out-of-college daughter is solidly on track to have her starter house paid off by 30.

I am going out on a limb here, but I believe there may be a big difference between your daughter and the "average" college grad. Your daughter graduated with no college debt either because of, or a combination of scholarships and parental help. I am positive I remember you posting over the years how you and your husband saved to pay 100% of your daughters college cost.

The majority of kids don't have that kind of parental financial backing. Most kids graduate with debt that needs to be paid off before they can save for a house,, so I totally disagree that buying a starter house and possibly having it paid off by age 30 is something that the "average" college grad can do!

For full disclosure, my oldest graduated at 22 with a civil engineering degree and 70k in debt. He lived at home with us for three years. He paid that 70k off in less than 2 years, paid cash for his car and then banked over 50k before moving out last year at age 25. He is also super frugal, almost to a fault. Even though he was sitting on over 50k he filled his new place with hand me down furniture and thrift store finds. The only new items he bought was a new mattress, Keurig and microwave. Everything else was free or super cheap second hand.

Having said all of that though, I don't feel like his experience is "average"! He graduated with a degree that pays well AND he landed a job in his field immediately after graduation AND his job was less than 30 minutes from where we live so he could live at home. He also had parents that welcomed him home with open arms and were happy to have him live here rent free. After reading this thread, I see quite a few parents who gleefully tell their kids that at 18 they are out of the house period! Again, those kids, and apparently there must be lots of them from the sounds of it, are at a big disadvantage to being able to purchase and pay off a starter home by age 30.

So, I don't think there is anything average about your kids, all of their cousins or my own son.

 

[MrsPete]

... am positive I remember you posting over the years how you and your husband saved to pay 100% of your daughters college cost.

The majority of kids don't have that kind of parental financial backing ...

Yes, we saved for our kids' educations AND they both ended up earning scholarships (which was no accident -- we were very strategic about it). So, yes, my girls have been excused from the burden of student loans; however, if that hadn't been true, they'd still be in very good shape. My oldest would still be living in her house ... but she wouldn't be as close to paying it off. My youngest would still have solid plans and money in the bank ... but it wouldn't be as much.

Why? Because in addition to having parents who were paying the tuition:
- They both earned college credits in high school, making it more likely that they'd graduate in four years.
- They both earned scholarships -- no full rides (they're essentially gone these days), but several small awards that added up.
- One, knowing she wasn't ready to go away, started in community college, which slashed the cost of her education.
- They both chose a lower-cost in-state college /a university that includes books in the tuition.
- They both chose inexpensive living situations in college.
- Neither had a car on campus until classes made it necessary.
- They both worked during college and stashed money away for the future.

In other words, yes, they had their educations paid in full, BUT they also made good choices along the way. That makes a world of difference. Their success cannot be pinned exclusively on having had their education paid.

 

[disneychrista]

If it's hard to find a good paying job where they're living, maybe they should consider moving somewhere where there are better paying jobs.

The one who is in a much better position to do something like this has looked into doing just this and in the future may.

After reading this thread, I see quite a few parents who gleefully tell their kids that at 18 they are out of the house period!

What I want to know is what if for whatever reason they aren't able to move out at 18. Is it too bad for you, figure it out? Or are they going to support (and I don't mean financially) their children until they are able to.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

In other words, yes, they had their educations paid in full, BUT they also made good choices along the way. That makes a world of difference. Their success cannot be pinned exclusively on having had their education paid.

Don't make the mistake of assuming those who are not like your kids have not also made good choices along the way. We've made good choices along the way as well, but no we have not opted to save $200K nor have our house paid off by age 30. That's fine by us. And yes we have student loan debt (no car payments though I'm driving around in an 17 year old car and my husband in a 10 year car). But we're doing quite well irrespective of all that

 

[RamblingMad]

I agree in theory, but obviously that hasn't worked. And if she really wants them out just yelling at them to move then during an argument isn't going to solve anything. Sit down and talk about it like the adults that they are if the situation isn't working for them. The same way I would with any family member (adult or not) needed it.

Time to sell the house, buy an old van, and embrace #vanlife. The kids will have to find somewhere else to live.

Or downsize to a house in an area, where they don’t want to live.

Or retire to a different state.

Or decide to go vegan.

Or do whatever you can to encourage them to leave.

I left because I didn’t want to live in the Midwest.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Double post

 

[disneychrista]

Or decide to go vegan.

One daughter is vegan, so that won't work.

 

[RamblingMad]

One daughter is vegan, so that won't work.

Time to take up hunting.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

Yes, we saved for our kids' educations AND they both ended up earning scholarships (which was no accident -- we were very strategic about it). So, yes, my girls have been excused from the burden of student loans; however, if that hadn't been true, they'd still be in very good shape. My oldest would still be living in her house ... but she wouldn't be as close to paying it off. My youngest would still have solid plans and money in the bank ... but it wouldn't be as much.

I think the key would above is "WE" were very strategic about it! Lots of kids don't have that kind of parental backing. Here on the Dis? Sure! Out in the average world? No! I would think with you being a teacher, you would know that to be the case. We live in an above middle class area, but even so, we have helped to parent and advice 3 of my kids friends who were somewhat on their own.

I have no doubt that your girls would still be "in very good shape" despite their advantage that you provided them. (I think you bought both of them used cars too) And yes, it obviously wouldn't be as much if they were paying off student loans. especially since you shared they don't have careers that earn a big sum.

Why? Because in addition to having parents who were paying the tuition:
- They both earned college credits in high school, making it more likely that they'd graduate in four years.
- They both earned scholarships -- no full rides (they're essentially gone these days), but several small awards that added up.
- One, knowing she wasn't ready to go away, started in community college, which slashed the cost of her education.
- They both chose a lower-cost in-state college /a university that includes books in the tuition.
- They both chose inexpensive living situations in college.
- Neither had a car on campus until classes made it necessary.
- They both worked during college and stashed money away for the future.

In other words, yes, they had their educations paid in full, BUT they also made good choices along the way. That makes a world of difference. Their success cannot be pinned exclusively on having had their education paid.

I in no way suggested that "their success cannot be pinned exclusively on having their education paid" But, gosh, that CERTAINLY makes a HUGE difference!!!

Its awesome that they made all of the above choices! Good for them! Again, those options are not available for all kids to make.
My son, the civil engineer applied for countless scholarships and didn't win any, not one!

He went to UNH, an in state school for us. He received no aid.

Not every area has a community college to commute too.

While my son choose an in state college, it was still pricey at close to 28k for classes and room and board. Books were not included in their tuition.

My son never had a car at school. He relied on public transportation.

He worked throughout college.

I agree that our kids are doing awesome!! Kudos to them!! I just am never going to believe that the "average" kid can replicate what they have done. They had/have advantages and circumstances available to them that is not available to every kid.

 

[Donaldswife]

Time to sell the house, buy an old van, and embrace #vanlife. The kids will have to find somewhere else to live.

Or downsize to a house in an area, where they don’t want to live.

Or retire to a different state.

Or decide to go vegan.

Or do whatever you can to encourage them to leave.

I left because I didn’t want to live in the Midwest.

Only if it is a "van down by the river" that I inherit from a portly motivational speaker from the 90's.

 

[disykat]

I just am never going to believe that the "average" kid can replicate what they have done. They had/have advantages and circumstances available to them that is not available to every kid.

I mostly agree with your post, but I'm going to twist it up a bit with some of my own thoughts. I'm never going to believe that average kids CAN'T make choices where they don't have tons of students debt. Not you, but it always seems to me on these threads that some people have a very doomsday viewpoint on the hardships young adults face - as if they have to have massive student debt, they have to live with parents because they'll never make it on their own, etc. My kids were privileged, no doubt about it, but it mostly came down to the choices they made and the choices we made. I've known kids with way more "privilege" with massive debt and unable to make it on their own and kids with way less privilege doing better than mine.

We can probably all agree that for those with debt, living cheap either at "home" with parents or otherwise for a year or two and knocking down a debt load can be smart. We can probably also agree that in most circumstances living long term with parents is probably not going to be a satisfactory way establish independence. (Again, I've said MOST circumstances, I know some people for whom it has worked well.) One way or the other, children need to grow up to be the "head of their own household." I think it's possible to do that from home base, but most probably need to move out to establish it.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I mostly agree with your post, but I'm going to twist it up a bit with some of my own thoughts. I'm never going to believe that average kids CAN'T make choices where they don't have tons of students debt. Not you, but it always seems to me on these threads that some people have a very doomsday viewpoint on the hardships young adults face - as if they have to have massive student debt, they have to live with parents because they'll never make it on their own, etc. My kids were privileged, no doubt about it, but it mostly came down to the choices they made and the choices we made. I've known kids with way more "privilege" with massive debt and unable to make it on their own and kids with way less privilege doing better than mine.

We can probably all agree that for those with debt, living cheap either at "home" with parents or otherwise for a year or two and knocking down a debt load can be smart. We can probably also agree that in most circumstances living long term with parents is probably not going to be a satisfactory way establish independence. (Again, I've said MOST circumstances, I know some people for whom it has worked well.) One way or the other, children need to grow up to be the "head of their own household." I think it's possible to do that from home base, but most probably need to move out to establish it.

Student loan debt is really a complicated matter.

I think the assumptions often are kids going to wildly expensive schools getting loans for crazy amounts just cuz.

The reality is not always that case.

It's a bit unfortunate, to me that is, that you'll never believe something that is the reality to so many and not because of some irresponsible decisions they've made but then again 'tons of student debt' is a bit vague.

 

[fortwildernessishome]

I mostly agree with your post, but I'm going to twist it up a bit with some of my own thoughts. I'm never going to believe that average kids CAN'T make choices where they don't have tons of students debt. Not you, but it always seems to me on these threads that some people have a very doomsday viewpoint on the hardships young adults face - as if they have to have massive student debt, they have to live with parents because they'll never make it on their own, etc. My kids were privileged, no doubt about it, but it mostly came down to the choices they made and the choices we made. I've known kids with way more "privilege" with massive debt and unable to make it on their own and kids with way less privilege doing better than mine.

We can probably all agree that for those with debt, living cheap either at "home" with parents or otherwise for a year or two and knocking down a debt load can be smart. We can probably also agree that in most circumstances living long term with parents is probably not going to be a satisfactory way establish independence. (Again, I've said MOST circumstances, I know some people for whom it has worked well.) One way or the other, children need to grow up to be the "head of their own household." I think it's possible to do that from home base, but most probably need to move out to establish it.

I agree with you! Lots of great points!

The quote of mine that you were responding to, where I said, "I just am never going to believe that the average kid can replicate what they have done", was in direct reference to Mrs. Pete children who, will own their own starter home at 30 and the other having saved 200k AND buy a house to use as rental property by the time she is 30.

Mrs. Pete believes that the "average" kid can achieve this as her kids have done/will do. I totally disagree with that! I think a LOT has to fall into place for that to happen!!! The one big thing being having your 4 year college degree paid for!!! (Doesn't matter if it is by the parents or by scholarships or a combination of the two!!) LOTS of kids don't have that advantage and lets face it, if you don't, its highly unlikely that you are owning a house or saving 200k by the time you are 30! Can that happen?? Sure!! But, I don't agree that it going to happen for the "average" kid even if they make lots of great choices!

 

[disykat]

Student loan debt is really a complicated matter.

I think the assumptions often are kids going to wildly expensive schools getting loans for crazy amounts just cuz.

The reality is not always that case.

It's a bit unfortunate, to me that is, that you'll never believe something that is the reality to so many and not because of some irresponsible decisions they've made but then again 'tons of student debt' is a bit vague.

I agree that "tons of debt" is vague, but in many of these discussions people act like it's normal to have 200K in student debt and those of us that think it's possible to get by without that are just wrong. (I mention the number 200K because I believe that was the number in play the last time we had this argument. We haven't talked about a number this time around.) I'm still tired of arguing about this with you from the last time. You think it's unfortunate I don't believe it has to be reality for many, I think it's unfortunate you believe that kind of debt load has to be a reality for many. And around and around we go.

My kids are pretty recent graduates and I know exactly how much it cost for them to get their four year degrees and it wasn't 200K. Their total debt for each had they had the same jobs, living situations, etc. and I not helped at all would have been around 60K (they went away all four years.) Had they continued to live like a student either at home or with roommates and knocked it down about 20K the first year or two out of school, they would have ended up with a 40K loan that would have cost them around $300 a month for the next 20 years.

I have never said it's easy or that some debt isn't normal. I have been one to say that SOME kids do go to wildly expensive schools and get loans for crazy amounts. Nothing will convince me it's not crazy to take out 200K in loans for an undergrad degree.

 

[disneychrista]

I think a lot of people on this thread and in general have the assumption that their experience is the same/similar to that of others. I can tell you right now that is very much not the case. I will admit that I come from a much different socioeconomic background from many DIS'ers. Those who grew up in affluent families and with advantages are going to see thing differently than someone who grew up in a lower-middle or middle class family. We all need to remember that our lives and our experiences may or may not be what someone else has experienced.

 

[KMarston]

Our kids were nine years apart. Very different kids. The first lived at home through college, always worked several jobs. Was a hard worker but not a great student. Went into a low paying but commendable field. Still worked two or three jobs. Took her six years after changing course a few times. We paid for college, gave her two used cars. She was a good manager and bought her home at 24. She lived with roommates from about 22 until she bought her home.

Our second was a great student but without the same desire to make money. No jobs for him until summer after high school before starting college because he had a very busy schedule and we had him on a track for scholarships. He got nice scholarships but the covered about half of his expenses and we paid the rest to a fairly expensive private college. End of sophomore year he moved from the dorms to a small apartment with friends. He was only allowed to work summers because we didn’t want him to risk losing scholarships. Graduated in May with a job offer for Fall of 2020 and another internship in spring of 2020. We’re supporting him this summer as he’s started his masters and is studying for both the CPA and CFA exams. He’s not as good with money as his sister. Hopefully that changes soon or he’ll learn to be poor! As of May 2020 he’ll be on his own. He’ll continue to live in the city he attended school. Visits are getting shorter and shorter!

I have so many friends with so many different situations. Even vast differences between siblings. One friend had to move in with her now 40 daughter and her child, then the son and his child moved in. She’s done everything to help make ends meet and somehow they all get further and further behind.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I agree that "tons of debt" is vague, but in many of these discussions people act like it's normal to have 200K in student debt and those of us that think it's possible to get by without that are just wrong. (I mention the number 200K because I believe that was the number in play the last time we had this argument. We haven't talked about a number this time around.) I'm still tired of arguing about this with you from the last time. You think it's unfortunate I don't believe it has to be reality for many, I think it's unfortunate you believe that kind of debt load has to be a reality for many. And around and around we go.

My kids are pretty recent graduates and I know exactly how much it cost for them to get their four year degrees and it wasn't 200K. Their total debt for each had they had the same jobs, living situations, etc. and I not helped at all would have been around 60K (they went away all four years.) Had they continued to live like a student either at home or with roommates and knocked it down about 20K the first year or two out of school, they would have ended up with a 40K loan that would have cost them around $300 a month for the next 20 years.

I have never said it's easy or that some debt isn't normal. I have been one to say that SOME kids do go to wildly expensive schools and get loans for crazy amounts. Nothing will convince me it's not crazy to take out 200K in loans for an undergrad degree.

I don't really remember what you're talking about in some sort of prior argument-you got me there

200K is way different. But I'm not sure I've really read in these discussions for $200K to be normal. I find it key to say 'to be normal'. Maybe you remember some quotes or something? I think some people know other people with that kind of debt but I honestly don't recall people saying they find that to be run of the mill normal amount of debt. I did say that your comment of 'tons of student loan' was vague. How am I supposed to know you're referring to $200K?

That said it might be more normal for certain fields of study to have a higher proportion of debt--kinda goes with the territory if you will especially if one is in schooling for 7-10 years as opposed to more average 4 years.

For general information not related to your comment---The class of 2018 from what I'm reading had an average of $29,800. To some that's way way too much, to others normal, to others on the slight low end. Either way the class of 2018 69% took out student loans so quite the majority ended up in some sort of debt. That is excluding what parents took out in Federal Loans.

 

[disneychrista]

According to CNBC the average debt a college graduate has is under $40,000.