Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Hey Disneysource, I have heard that there is a pirate themed land rumored for the Shanghai Disneyland. It's suppose to have a stunt show and a new ride based on the movies that is also a flume ride. Witch Way, however, has me confused. It's a cute name, but I can't tell anything about the attractions by the titles. Could you please be more specific about them?:)

I actually don't have all the info on it. Here's what I did hear.

Witch Way: Dragon's Tail/Forbidden Mountain (Rollercoaster in the mountain beneath the castle), Ursula's spell (dark ride from the witches POV), The Broken Mirror (Snow White Himalaya-like ride), Gothel's Tower (Rapunzel Tower of Terror ride, but you are lying on your back???)
 
Disneysource, if you're making this stuff up you have a good imagination. If not, have you heard if it is still under consideration? Will it be a post Avatar Land project?:)
 
Disneysource, if you're making this stuff up you have a good imagination. If not, have you heard if it is still under consideration? Will it be a post Avatar Land project?:)

Its not going to happen anytime soon. It looks like Disney just wants to do expansions with the parks they already have. I did hear that backlot tour might be demolished and replaced with more Pixar themed attractions, but that probably won't happen for 10+ yrs.
 
I hope they show some love to EPCOT, as well. I read on this site or another that a cast member told about the Villain park coming and said that they were going to add two new countries to EPCOT. I know, cast members are about as reliable as bus drivers, but I hope something is in the works for EPCOT.:)
 
I hope they show some love to EPCOT, as well. I read on this site or another that a cast member told about the Villain park coming and said that they were going to add two new countries to EPCOT. I know, cast members are about as reliable as bus drivers, but I hope something is in the works for EPCOT.:)

Two more countries have been coming to Epcot since, well...Epcot. :)

Given Disney's history of announcing things before they actually happen, and then canceling them anyways, and the fact that they haven't even announced anything, makes me doubt that anything really is in the works at this time other than blue sky ideas.
 
I've heard this rumor for a couple of years also. Does anyone have any news articles or sources for the rumor? I think it would be a great idea - hope Disney will go through with it someday.

I don't have any hard evidence, but I do have some information. I recently attended the Imagineer Lunch at the Brown Derby in HS (highly recommend!) and I asked about the possibility of this park. Although they are limited to what he was allowed to share he mentioned that there are indeed plans and land marked off for such a project. He also mentioned how economically a project of this size would take even more time in planning and by that time someone may develop an idea to compete with Dark Kingdom. And of course who could forget Economic troubles.... I think this would be an awesome plan though! Hope to see it some day!
 
I don't have any hard evidence, but I do have some information. I recently attended the Imagineer Lunch at the Brown Derby in HS (highly recommend!) and I asked about the possibility of this park. Although they are limited to what he was allowed to share he mentioned that there are indeed plans and land marked off for such a project. He also mentioned how economically a project of this size would take even more time in planning and by that time someone may develop an idea to compete with Dark Kingdom. And of course who could forget Economic troubles.... I think this would be an awesome plan though! Hope to see it some day!


They probably have plans and land marked for 20 more hotels and 5 more themeparks in Florida. It would only be prudent to keep their options open, but I doubt we will see it in the near to mid-term future.
 
Why do I have the feeling that the villain park will only be greenlit if the Maleficent movie is a Big success. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure it's a flop. They've hired a first time director, who is a set designer, to direct with a budget of $200 mil. We've seen how that can turn out. If it was a priority for the studio, they would have hired an A list director. This way, if it flops, they can say "see, there's no market for Disney villains". I hope I'm wrong about this. And, what's up with the Oz movie? It's less than a year a way and there has been no images released. They're keeping too quiet on it. Does this mean it's another John Carter?:confused3
 
Why do I have the feeling that the villain park will only be greenlit if the Maleficent movie is a Big success. They seem to be going out of their way to make sure it's a flop. They've hired a first time director, who is a set designer, to direct with a budget of $200 mil. We've seen how that can turn out. If it was a priority for the studio, they would have hired an A list director. This way, if it flops, they can say "see, there's no market for Disney villains". I hope I'm wrong about this. And, what's up with the Oz movie? It's less than a year a way and there has been no images released. They're keeping too quiet on it. Does this mean it's another John Carter?:confused3

i can't imagine why you any feeling about the malificent movie greenlighting a 4 billion construction outlay...

lets be clear: its never happening...there will be NO NEW PARKS in florida...

that is the sad truth. the demand will never be there to justify the cost.

This all completely made up rumor and fanboy dreams....its not happening.
"Lunch with the Imagineer"?

are you serious...imagineers are like the Gypsies of the Disney Corporate World....they are tom hanks testing out new toys in BIG.
They have no input on what's built...they are assigned work with the accountants tell them to build something. They spend to excess...and don't generate anything to pay for it.

This is not realistic on any level..truth be told...without major and fundamental shakeups in the travel market in orlando.
 
are you serious...imagineers are like the Gypsies of the Disney Corporate World....they are tom hanks testing out new toys in BIG.
They have no input on what's built...they are assigned work with the accountants tell them to build something. They spend to excess...and don't generate anything to pay for it.


I probably would have sugar-coated it a bit but I'm forced to agree.

You really have to step back and look at The Walt Disney Company as the many-headed corporate beast that it truly is. Walt Disney Imagineering (WDI) is just one (relatively small) division of that company. But within WDI are executives and planners who have their own agendas. Their primary goal is to protect WDI. And part of protecting it is securing operating budgets and keeping staff members employed and productive.

That's not to say that WDI has any ability whatsoever to force approval of a new park, a new ride or even a new park bench. It doesn't work that way.

What WDI WILL do is spend their days dreaming up new concepts, new ride systems and creating mountains of concept art and storyboards for ideas which will never go anywhere.

When projects do materialize--either domestically or internationally--they at least have a jumping-off point to start real planning.

WDI spends staggering resources planning and preparing for a possible project green light. But ultimately they cannot approve any theme park projects and the vast majority of their work never sees the light of day.
 
Wow, forever is a long time. Do you all plan on living forever so you can prove you were right. Bottom line, it's coming, maybe not within the next ten years, but it will eventually. I'm not going to argue the point, people can believe what they want.:thumbsup2
 
Wow, forever is a long time. Do you all plan on living forever so you can prove you were right. Bottom line, it's coming, maybe not within the next ten years, but it will eventually. I'm not going to argue the point, people can believe what they want.:thumbsup2

no you should argue the point...because i need your justification.

disney's tracking has indicated significant hurdles to increasing the average length of stay...and that is the only reason to build new main line gated parks.

the majority of the population now has less discretionary income and less vacation to utilize...and that makes it damn near impossible to justify new parks.

second, travel as a whole is in a continual state of evolution and while you're not welling to accept a possibility that a "themed" compound like WDW may not have an unlimited run of success...it is very likely that it will at some point.

Its had a 40+ years of supremacy...but that is far from certain. technology and media are in a rapid state of growth/ expansion...it possible that not only disney's theme parks may start to fade in popularity...but its also possible that their IP may lose some of its 20th century based grip on the masses.

The reality is that building any park would cost in the area of 5 billion (with a "b") bucks in total development if they were to build it in the next 10 years...and will only escalate for there.

Will you make enough to afford $250 one day tickets to keep the place expanding? while 75% of the 100,000 workers it would require to run the place try to piece together an existence on a minimum wage of $12.00 an hour?

The answer is you won't...and that is a certainty. The rest may be my opinion...but the economics on future expansion just don't work...and that is likely to get worse - rather than better.
 
I did hear that backlot tour might be demolished and replaced with more Pixar themed attractions, but that probably won't happen for 10+ yrs.

I just figured out the source: the fortune teller on the Boardwalk. Ok, now I'm a believer. :genie:
 
Wow, forever is a long time. Do you all plan on living forever so you can prove you were right. Bottom line, it's coming, maybe not within the next ten years, but it will eventually. I'm not going to argue the point, people can believe what they want.:thumbsup2

If we are talking beyond 10 years, then I don't believe for a minute that there a firm plans. Long term strategic plans are generally looking out 3 to 5 years. When talking about big things like theme park projects, they might be looking a little further out. But there are just to many variables for a company to put a stake in the ground and say, in 2024 we are going to start building a new park.
 
...
Its had a 40+ years of supremacy...but that is far from certain. technology and media are in a rapid state of growth/ expansion...it possible that not only disney's theme parks may start to fade in popularity...but its also possible that their IP may lose some of its 20th century based grip on the masses.

...

Some day Mickey and the rest will start entering public domain. Disney has been good at getting the laws changed, but I think it will get harder and harder. I don't know what the law is up to now, but when they fail to get it extended and you start seeing Mickey opening up your new Wal Mart, that is when you will see disney first off load operations of the theme parks, then outright sell them.

I see WDW as three items to consmers, Rides, shows, characters, I see them as having equal importance to drawing crowds(this is only from listening to people). You get rid of 1/3 of your draw, and you loose 1/3 of your value. I see WDW as two things to corporate 1/2 cash generater, 1/2 advertisement machine. So if people see 1/3 of the value go away(because they can see Mickey everywhere now) that will be when they stop going and the corporation see a decline in revenues and not as many eyes to advertise to.

I know by simply getting rid of Pleasure Island the Value of a Disney vacation has been reduced for me and I have started looking elsewhere. I don't think Disney understands or maybe just doesn't care that they are already dangerously close to hitting that point with a lot of people. Which may be why they are having trouble getting enough companies to rent space on PI. If they ahd enough companies ready to shell out money to lease space it would not be sitting there empty, they would get them in ASAP. I truly believe PI closeing hit them harder than they thought, even without the downturn in global tourism.

Here we go, start getting rid of all unique items (PI, Souviniers)(loose some draw), your characters are now Public domain and can be seen all around the country(no need to travel to see Mickey), all your adults grew up on face book(need instant cheap satisfaction), make all of their purcahses online(don't like shopping in the 100s of stores selling identicle merchandise), are making an income the same dollar amount as their parents even though the value of the dollar is only 2/3s(you actually make less), you can go to six flags for rides(getting to florida costs too much).

All this equals a decline in WDW and an eventual sell off, never mind building new parks.
 
Some day Mickey and the rest will start entering public domain. Disney has been good at getting the laws changed, but I think it will get harder and harder. I don't know what the law is up to now, but when they fail to get it extended and you start seeing Mickey opening up your new Wal Mart, that is when you will see disney first off load operations of the theme parks, then outright sell them.

I see WDW as three items to consmers, Rides, shows, characters, I see them as having equal importance to drawing crowds(this is only from listening to people). You get rid of 1/3 of your draw, and you loose 1/3 of your value. I see WDW as two things to corporate 1/2 cash generater, 1/2 advertisement machine. So if people see 1/3 of the value go away(because they can see Mickey everywhere now) that will be when they stop going and the corporation see a decline in revenues and not as many eyes to advertise to.

I know by simply getting rid of Pleasure Island the Value of a Disney vacation has been reduced for me and I have started looking elsewhere. I don't think Disney understands or maybe just doesn't care that they are already dangerously close to hitting that point with a lot of people. Which may be why they are having trouble getting enough companies to rent space on PI. If they ahd enough companies ready to shell out money to lease space it would not be sitting there empty, they would get them in ASAP. I truly believe PI closeing hit them harder than they thought, even without the downturn in global tourism.

Here we go, start getting rid of all unique items (PI, Souviniers)(loose some draw), your characters are now Public domain and can be seen all around the country(no need to travel to see Mickey), all your adults grew up on face book(need instant cheap satisfaction), make all of their purcahses online(don't like shopping in the 100s of stores selling identicle merchandise), are making an income the same dollar amount as their parents even though the value of the dollar is only 2/3s(you actually make less), you can go to six flags for rides(getting to florida costs too much).

All this equals a decline in WDW and an eventual sell off, never mind building new parks.

Beat me too it. I 110% agree as well.
 
Some day Mickey and the rest will start entering public domain. Disney has been good at getting the laws changed, but I think it will get harder and harder. I don't know what the law is up to now, but when they fail to get it extended and you start seeing Mickey opening up your new Wal Mart, that is when you will see disney first off load operations of the theme parks, then outright sell them.

I see WDW as three items to consmers, Rides, shows, characters, I see them as having equal importance to drawing crowds(this is only from listening to people). You get rid of 1/3 of your draw, and you loose 1/3 of your value. I see WDW as two things to corporate 1/2 cash generater, 1/2 advertisement machine. So if people see 1/3 of the value go away(because they can see Mickey everywhere now) that will be when they stop going and the corporation see a decline in revenues and not as many eyes to advertise to.

I know by simply getting rid of Pleasure Island the Value of a Disney vacation has been reduced for me and I have started looking elsewhere. I don't think Disney understands or maybe just doesn't care that they are already dangerously close to hitting that point with a lot of people. Which may be why they are having trouble getting enough companies to rent space on PI. If they ahd enough companies ready to shell out money to lease space it would not be sitting there empty, they would get them in ASAP. I truly believe PI closeing hit them harder than they thought, even without the downturn in global tourism.

Here we go, start getting rid of all unique items (PI, Souviniers)(loose some draw), your characters are now Public domain and can be seen all around the country(no need to travel to see Mickey), all your adults grew up on face book(need instant cheap satisfaction), make all of their purcahses online(don't like shopping in the 100s of stores selling identicle merchandise), are making an income the same dollar amount as their parents even though the value of the dollar is only 2/3s(you actually make less), you can go to six flags for rides(getting to florida costs too much).

All this equals a decline in WDW and an eventual sell off, never mind building new parks.

this is fantastic....if there is a disboard hall of fame...this should go into it next to yogi berra.

My one comment is on PI...where it seemed clear from Day 1 what that was about.
It wasnt' about them "losing money" or not being profitable...its almost impossible for bars to go out of business or not make scratch...

It was about pushing the local youth population away (which is exactly what you should want there...but they are not disney caliber in their appearance or their credit limits)
and it was turning easy money into a new supreme form of "easiest" money.

Rental fees and royalties with no HR investment...that was the whole point. To make money to do...literally...nothing (or as many people call it: job creators)

They wanted high fees for their leased spaced and sweethearts deals...the problem was they picked the worst time to abandon PI and try this: as both the third party vendors (apparently) and the consumers balked at this idea.

The plan was dead on arrival. They should have reversed course, spruced up PI, and charged a very low admission/ cover charge and raked in money off drinks...

but their need to shed salary and increase easy revenue collapsed like a bad souffle.

And...as Eisney learned/ implemented - they just ignore it, don't acknowledge the mistake and board it up. That is non-Disney like and has been going on since the late 90's.

I'm not saying that they didn't have good reasons to take this tact...they did. They need to reduce their employee obligations and cut some costs if they ever want to continue expansion...but this plan was DOA.

The mistake is not to change the course of the ship...its to stay the course when you see a hurricane out on the horizon in front of you.
 
Some day Mickey and the rest will start entering public domain. Disney has been good at getting the laws changed, but I think it will get harder and harder. I don't know what the law is up to now, but when they fail to get it extended and you start seeing Mickey opening up your new Wal Mart, that is when you will see disney first off load operations of the theme parks, then outright sell them.

Looks like that is set for 2023, right now. I would expect Disney to seek (and probably win) another 20 year extension...but we'll see. Supreme court has already ruled on constitutionality of extensions (Eldred v Ashcroft). Maybe, at some point, there's some objection (in government), but I don't see it happening soon.

I see WDW as three items to consmers, Rides, shows, characters, I see them as having equal importance to drawing crowds(this is only from listening to people). You get rid of 1/3 of your draw, and you loose 1/3 of your value. I see WDW as two things to corporate 1/2 cash generater, 1/2 advertisement machine. So if people see 1/3 of the value go away(because they can see Mickey everywhere now) that will be when they stop going and the corporation see a decline in revenues and not as many eyes to advertise to.

I agree, mostly. I think thats one of the reasons you see Disney continuing to try to develop/push new IP's...so that they will almost always have SOMETHING, in the way of an IP, that they can market via the parks (and other avenues) Obviously, having the sway of Mickey and the Gang is still the big draw, though. I'm not sure you'd lose 1/3 of your draw when losing Mickey and the gang (because there are other pieces to that third), but I agree..that 1/3 of the draw would take a significant hit.

I know by simply getting rid of Pleasure Island the Value of a Disney vacation has been reduced for me and I have started looking elsewhere. I don't think Disney understands or maybe just doesn't care that they are already dangerously close to hitting that point with a lot of people. Which may be why they are having trouble getting enough companies to rent space on PI. If they ahd enough companies ready to shell out money to lease space it would not be sitting there empty, they would get them in ASAP. I truly believe PI closeing hit them harder than they thought, even without the downturn in global tourism.

Again, I mostly agree. I do think you might overestimate the importance of PI to the average traveler. I also think your reasoning is a bit "off". Disney wanted to clear out the locals (which is funny...because they were the ones that caused the problem by making PI "free", when it used to be a seperate admission). They also wanted to cut salary. staff, benefits, and their overall commitment to staffing (because they needed to cut bait to make their shareholders smile).

But they picked the worst time, economically, to do it. The types of establishments they were looking to bring in simply weren't expanding or opening new retail locations. They were all doing the same thing Disney was. So a plan to stand back, let others spend the development cost, and simply rake in the "free money" for location/real estate was short sighted, at best. And, even when it became apparent it was a bad decision...they didn't reverse course. That's a lack of corporate vision and bad leadership (something I've accused the WDW execs of in the past), all the way around.

Now it's just an eyesore....which might be worse than they were, originally, footing the bill and dealing with the locals.

Here we go, start getting rid of all unique items (PI, Souviniers)(loose some draw), your characters are now Public domain and can be seen all around the country(no need to travel to see Mickey), all your adults grew up on face book(need instant cheap satisfaction), make all of their purcahses online(don't like shopping in the 100s of stores selling identicle merchandise), are making an income the same dollar amount as their parents even though the value of the dollar is only 2/3s(you actually make less), you can go to six flags for rides(getting to florida costs too much).

Homogenization isn't new, and it's not particular to Disney corporate. It's a bottom line saver, I suspect, in their eyes. I suspect (but don't know) that they're not seeing enough of a hit to merch sales to think it's a bad idea, either.

As a consumer, I'd be happier with more unique offerings...for sure. And I"m sure there are other consumers who feel the same way. I'm just not sure that we all stop buying the homogenized offerings enough to send DISNEY the message.

All this equals a decline in WDW and an eventual sell off, never mind building new parks.

Eventually, maybe, someday. Not soon, I dont' think. They do seem to be testing the water on "rake in free money, let others do the work" in several different ways. But they've also had varying success with it. And, lets face it, right now the parks division makes some serious cash for Disney...and they'd need a VERY compelling reason to let that money go. You'd have to, essentially, give them a similar revenue stream (slightly less since there would be no risk or outlay costs...so the money would be significantly "cheaper), yearly, to get them to sell. Plus you'd have to pay them a mint for the actual holdings/real estate/assets. I'm not sure how many companies could manage that investment, fee schedule, and still manage to operate the resort(s) at a profit.

I'm also not sure how the stockholders would see the divestment. One thing many institutional investors like is how diversified Disney is in the industry. The parks is a big part of that. You don't want to hobble your stock....

What I would be LESS surprised to see is this: Disney maintaining ownership but "partnering" with an outside company to actually run the day to day, investing capital, etc....with the partner taking a larger share of the profits, but Disney still getting some (and maintaining a modicum of control). That would offset the need for any company to outlay the initial HUGE amount of money necessary to purchase the existing WDW resort.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

GET A DISNEY VACATION QUOTE

Dreams Unlimited Travel is committed to providing you with the very best vacation planning experience possible. Our Vacation Planners are experts and will share their honest advice to help you have a magical vacation.

Let us help you with your next Disney Vacation!











facebook twitter
Top