Disney's Dark Kingdom (Complete list on pg 24)

[ThurlFan]

Some day Mickey and the rest will start entering public domain. Disney has been good at getting the laws changed, but I think it will get harder and harder.

Personally, I think this was one of the motivations behind the Duffy Bear creation. I think it was a trial balloon for an eventual replacement of Mickey as signature character for Disney Parks (who wants an ADR for Chef Duffy at the Contemporary?). I have zero connections (not even a bus driver), and nothing to go on other than a hunch - but that's just what it looked like to me.

However, the purchase of Pixar is a great hedge against this eventuality. Those characters are good for many decades after Mickey goes public domain. And recent characters like Barbossa, Jack Sparrow et al from the PoC movies, along with Tiana, Rapunzel, and Flynn Rider from Disney animation will also be available only at Disney.

So the future isn't as bleak as it might seem, but it will definitely be a paradigm shift when the Fab Five go public domain.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Personally, I think this was one of the motivations behind the Duffy Bear creation. I think it was a trial balloon for an eventual replacement of Mickey as signature character for Disney Parks (who wants an ADR for Chef Duffy at the Contemporary?). I have zero connections (not even a bus driver), and nothing to go on other than a hunch - but that's just what it looked like to me.

However, the purchase of Pixar is a great hedge against this eventuality. Those characters are good for many decades after Mickey goes public domain. And recent characters like Barbossa, Jack Sparrow et al from the PoC movies, along with Tiana, Rapunzel, and Flynn Rider from Disney animation will also be available only at Disney.

So the future isn't as bleak as it might seem, but it will definitely be a paradigm shift when the Fab Five go public domain.

the reality is that the world has changed...and nothing created by pixar are going to ever have the grip that mickey mouse had on the populace...

in reality...no movie will ever have the recognition that gone with the wind and the wizard of oz has had...

and that means that mickey mouse will never be replaced by a "new" character from disney.

we live in such a different world than when they pop icons of the 1900's were created.

People would go to a movie theater and watch a mickey mouse cartoon as their sole recreational activity for the week or even month...you can't possible think that in this media world we live in that effect on the public of new characters can be the same.

the coca-colas, mickey mouses, gone with the winds, and even later developments like the atari and the apple computer are gone...

So disney has to try to maintain IP...because they are really in trouble if they don't.

I mean...you can't possible think that anything from Cars or the Princess and the Frog can have an 85 year pull on people, right?

 

[ThurlFan]

the reality is that the world has changed...and nothing created by pixar are going to ever have the grip that mickey mouse had on the populace...

in reality...no movie will ever have the recognition that gone with the wind and the wizard of oz has had...

and that means that mickey mouse will never be replaced by a "new" character from disney.

we live in such a different world than when they pop icons of the 1900's were created.

People would go to a movie theater and watch a mickey mouse cartoon as their sole recreational activity for the week or even month...you can't possible think that in this media world we live in that effect on the public of new characters can be the same.

the coca-colas, mickey mouses, gone with the winds, and even later developments like the atari and the apple computer are gone...

So disney has to try to maintain IP...because they are really in trouble if they don't.

I mean...you can't possible think that anything from Cars or the Princess and the Frog can have an 85 year pull on people, right?

Points well taken, but the loss of Mickey doesn't have to mean collapse of the empire.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Points well taken, but the loss of Mickey doesn't have to mean collapse of the empire.

absolutely not...but what it does mean is the loss of significant revenue...

and if that were to happen, the empire would break itself up.

 

[disneysource]

Dark Kingdom


Attractions


Mean Street: has buildings w/angry expressions

Pirates Cove: Captain Hook's Jolly Roger(play area), Curse of the black pearl (show), Smee's lil schooners, Tick Tock (Jungle Cruise-like w/pirate captain), Deadman's Chest (pirates) The flying dutchman (aladdin)

Ghost Town: Stinky Pete's Roundup, Phantom Mountain

The Hollow: Headless Horseman's last ride, Nightmare b4 xmas (show), Boogey Manor

Villain Ville: Hoppers (Dumbo), Its good to be bad (dark/singing), Oswald's Revenge, Welcome to Sunnyside, Scar's lair, Stromboli's

Witch Way: Dragon's Tail/Forbidden Mountain, Ursula's spell, The Broken Mirror, Gothel's Tower


Restaurants


TS = Table Service
CS= Counter Service
CM = Character Meals

Cruella de ville’s - (TS) Mean Street, Dalmatian printed dining room. Has an elaborate fountain in the middle of the restaurant. w/ European style cuisines

Lonesome Saloon - (CS) Ghosttown, A western/ghost themed restaurant owned by four ghosts who appear in reflections throughout the place. w/ burgers, chicken sandwiches, pork sandwich, etc

Be our prisoner - (CM) Witch Way, Dungeon with muck filled stone walls themed after the dungeon Prince charming is put into on Cinderella.

Ursula’s underwater cave - (CS) Witch Way, darkly lit restaurant that consists of purple stalactites and stalagmites all throughout. w/ burgers, steak and cheese, ½ chicken, chicken nuggets, rotisserie chicken, etc

Mermaid lagoon - (CS) Pirates Cove, mermaids swim around on large screens in this shell made restaurant. w/ ribs, pizza, chicken parm, various salads, etc

Brethren court - (CM) Pirates Cove, it looks like a pirate ship with round windows that look out onto the lagoon at a huge octopus. Chandeliers and Candelabras are hanging from the ceiling and along the walls. The chandeliers have cloth drapes hanging on them while the candles have dried drips of wax on each of them.

Frankenweenie - (CS) The Hollow, it looks like a mad scientist lab, w/ hot dogs, corn dogs, chilli dogs, cheese dogs, fried dogs, etc

Monstro - (TS) Villain Ville, eat inside the whale from Pinocchio in table booths that look like boats, w/ fish and chips, chicken fingers, new york strip steak, salmon, etc


Shops, Snack Places, etc


Mean Street - Shear panic, The Dark Wardrobe, Crematorium, The Jailhouse, Gaston’s trophy room, Mean Street Cinema, Mean Street Confectionary, Mean Street Gallery, City Howl, Town Scare Exposition

Pirate's Cove - Walk the Plank, Isla de muerta, Buccaneer Bazaar, Monkey Jack’s, Davy Jones locker

Ghost Town - Ghoulish Gifts, Stinky’s hideout, Phantom finds, Tumbleweed outpost and supply

The Hollow - Spectralmagic, Bone’s Bounty, All Hallow’s Eve Shoppe

Villain Ville - The Rabbit Hole, The Giants attic, Cave of Wonders, Lost and Found

Witch Way - Madam Mims, Spells and Such, Witch way arcade, Double Double Toil and Trouble

Snacks

Mean Street Bakery, Mean Street I Scream, Poison Apple, Barbosa‘s bar, The Pumpkin Barn, Queen of Hearts, Voodoo Bayou, Jafar and Iagos ice cream truck

 

[DPCummerbund]

So.... you just revived a thread that has been dead for two years in order to... quote your own post from two years ago?

 

[disneysource]

So.... you just revived a thread that has been dead for two years in order to... quote your own post from two years ago?

Nope, I added the stores and snacks sections that wasn't in the original thread. I just forgot to do it back then, so I thought I'd just put in the already existing thread rather then start a new one.

 

[surferdave]

 

[fannatic]

Dark Kingdom


Attractions


Mean Street: has buildings w/angry expressions

Pirates Cove: Captain Hook's Jolly Roger(play area), Curse of the black pearl (show), Smee's lil schooners, Tick Tock (Jungle Cruise-like w/pirate captain), Deadman's Chest (pirates) The flying dutchman (aladdin)

Ghost Town: Stinky Pete's Roundup, Phantom Mountain

The Hollow: Headless Horseman's last ride, Nightmare b4 xmas (show), Boogey Manor

Villain Ville: Hoppers (Dumbo), Its good to be bad (dark/singing), Oswald's Revenge, Welcome to Sunnyside, Scar's lair, Stromboli's

Witch Way: Dragon's Tail/Forbidden Mountain, Ursula's spell, The Broken Mirror, Gothel's Tower


Restaurants


TS = Table Service
CS= Counter Service
CM = Character Meals

Cruella de ville’s - (TS) Mean Street, Dalmatian printed dining room. Has an elaborate fountain in the middle of the restaurant. w/ European style cuisines

Lonesome Saloon - (CS) Ghosttown, A western/ghost themed restaurant owned by four ghosts who appear in reflections throughout the place. w/ burgers, chicken sandwiches, pork sandwich, etc

Be our prisoner - (CM) Witch Way, Dungeon with muck filled stone walls themed after the dungeon Prince charming is put into on Cinderella.

Ursula’s underwater cave - (CS) Witch Way, darkly lit restaurant that consists of purple stalactites and stalagmites all throughout. w/ burgers, steak and cheese, ½ chicken, chicken nuggets, rotisserie chicken, etc

Mermaid lagoon - (CS) Pirates Cove, mermaids swim around on large screens in this shell made restaurant. w/ ribs, pizza, chicken parm, various salads, etc

Brethren court - (CM) Pirates Cove, it looks like a pirate ship with round windows that look out onto the lagoon at a huge octopus. Chandeliers and Candelabras are hanging from the ceiling and along the walls. The chandeliers have cloth drapes hanging on them while the candles have dried drips of wax on each of them.

Frankenweenie - (CS) The Hollow, it looks like a mad scientist lab, w/ hot dogs, corn dogs, chilli dogs, cheese dogs, fried dogs, etc

Monstro - (TS) Villain Ville, eat inside the whale from Pinocchio in table booths that look like boats, w/ fish and chips, chicken fingers, new york strip steak, salmon, etc


Shops, Snack Places, etc


Mean Street - Shear panic, The Dark Wardrobe, Crematorium, The Jailhouse, Gaston’s trophy room, Mean Street Cinema, Mean Street Confectionary, Mean Street Gallery, City Howl, Town Scare Exposition

Pirate's Cove - Walk the Plank, Isla de muerta, Buccaneer Bazaar, Monkey Jack’s, Davy Jones locker

Ghost Town - Ghoulish Gifts, Stinky’s hideout, Phantom finds, Tumbleweed outpost and supply

The Hollow - Spectralmagic, Bone’s Bounty, All Hallow’s Eve Shoppe

Villain Ville - The Rabbit Hole, The Giants attic, Cave of Wonders, Lost and Found

Witch Way - Madam Mims, Spells and Such, Witch way arcade, Double Double Toil and Trouble

Snacks

Mean Street Bakery, Mean Street I Scream, Poison Apple, Barbosa‘s bar, The Pumpkin Barn, Queen of Hearts, Voodoo Bayou, Jafar and Iagos ice cream truck

You have some clever ideas. That seems like it would be a lot of fun.

 

[tbia]

Points well taken, but the loss of Mickey doesn't have to mean collapse of the empire.

Interesting choice of words looking back 2 years later.

Hmmmm.....what franchise just MIGHT grab and hold people's attention for 50+ years when Mickey hits public domain...maybe something Disney has recently acquired, something with a dark side....

I don't know, maybe it will come to me.

 

[disneysource]

You have some clever ideas. That seems like it would be a lot of fun.

Thanks, but it isn't just ideas. A relative told me this was an actual concept that Disney was going to do. They were even thinking of connecting the new park to the Magic Kingdom with a mirror gateway.

I guess their idea was to have it near the right side of Magic in the Bay Lake area. Walking into the Dark Kingdom would be like walking through a mirror, it would be an opposite world where Villains rule.

 

[fannatic]

Thanks, but it isn't just ideas. A relative told me this was an actual concept that Disney was going to do. They were even thinking of connecting the new park to the Magic Kingdom with a mirror gateway.

I guess their idea was to have it near the right side of Magic in the Bay Lake area. Walking into the Dark Kingdom would be like walking through a mirror, it would be an opposite world where Villains rule.

Excellent! Disney needs to make this a top priority again. It looks like it would be a huge hit and help out with MK crowd control.

 

[flashcal]

I posted a thread about this a year ago and got venomous blow back but I stand by it. As a local you hear things from people who are lifelong friends of imagineers. The fifth park will be Heroes and Villains. It may not happen for some time. But it will happen. That is why they keep pushing people's infatuation with Villains. Last nights 24 hr party was all about the Villains. The park was dead until late when the Villains came out and they were mobbed. Disney knew it would be. Villains are what people want. Maleficent anyone? It happening. Now flame away.

 

[DPCummerbund]

Thanks, but it isn't just ideas. A relative told me this was an actual concept that Disney was going to do.

I posted a thread about this a year ago and got venomous blow back but I stand by it.... It may not happen for some time. But it will happen.... It happening. Now flame away.

Most of the information I've seen about this concept dates from around 2010. I've seen articles from 2012 about how this idea had "died", and that was 2 years ago.

The simple fact is that if this park was actually "in process", we would have seen some progress on it by now. After 4 years, if work on it was still ongoing, surely we'd see SOMETHING by now?

As tbia pointed out, a lot has changed in the last 4 years. The purchase of Star Wars, and the rights to use Marvel (at least on the west coast) have surely affected Disney's plans for theme park development since then.

I'm not saying that a Villains park won't happen or can't happen in the future. I'm simply saying that it's not currently happening.

If you don't agree with me, think about it this way. Most of the ideas for the park - from rides down to the specific restaurant themes and actual menu items - are from at least 2012. If such a park were really in process, and Disney made a huge announcement about it tomorrow, it would still be YEARS away from opening- let's say 4 years to build a whole new park. Do you really think that they would build a park and feature restaurant menus that are already 6-8 YEARS OLD? These are simply interesting design ideas, and nothing more.

As someone posted earlier in this thread (on the first page, from three years ago), here's an article from 2011, which mentions that the then-recent purchase of Marvel put the idea of a "Dark Kingdom" on the back burner. And you'll notice that the article states that the Dark Kingdom idea was already several years old back then.

Walt Disney World Never Built

TL;DR: I think that nothing is happening with the Dark Kingdom idea. My evidence for this is that... nothing is happening with the Dark Kingdom idea.

 

[flashcal]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we both said that while we are well aware it's not currently happening, it has been stated by those in the imagineers circle that WHEN they do a fifth park it will be Villains themed. No it is not in the planning stages now. It is currently being conceptualized for a future time.

No one but the financial big wigs know when, including all the folks on these boards who are professional speculators, which is apparently nearly everyone. No one knows diddly about the real financial situation of this company except those whose job it is to know.

I've given out info in the last few months on this board about AK expansion, before it was common knowledge. This will too eventually. People who work at Disney talk. It is what it is. No big deal right now though.

 

[doconeill]

And, of course, Disney can change their mind at any time and do something else...they've made several property acquisitions since a Villains park got through blue sky. While I'm sure the plans for a Villains park are still sitting neatly somewhere waiting for a chance, who knows whether it will ever happen or get replaced by something else instead. We won't know until it's built.

Personally, I can't see an ENTIRE 5th gate being dedicated to a single theme like that. I can see it being a large land within one, however. Need to balance the draw among the whole guest demographic.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And, of course, Disney can change their mind at any time and do something else...they've made several property acquisitions since a Villains park got through blue sky. While I'm sure the plans for a Villains park are still sitting neatly somewhere waiting for a chance, who knows whether it will ever happen or get replaced by something else instead. We won't know until it's built.

Personally, I can't see an ENTIRE 5th gate being dedicated to a single theme like that. I can see it being a large land within one, however. Need to balance the draw among the whole guest demographic.

Agree...if this is ever built in any form.. It would be an add on to an existing gate...
People don't seem to grasp the difference in cost of building new infrastructure for a large capacity amusement park...as opposed to adding/re routing existing...
It is completely safe to say that number is several billions:sub one billion - and that's why my belief is that a fifth main gate in Orlando is all but impossible.

The other problem with the "villians" concept is that it also almost only fits at studios..
Which of course also only fits the inevitable Star Wars concepts and any hope of large scale Pixar Enhancements.
It could be used at EPCOT or animal kingdom...but doesn't fit...so it's studios...unless

Would they dare replace tommorowland or cut into frontierland...say Tom sawyers island?...two highly outdated 1955 waltsian concepts that aren't coming back...

Hmmm...this is the type of back burner thing that will hang around for along time...
Which is why we must TRUST ONLY TVE SHOVELS

 

[disneymac000]

The villians concept gets people in the park who don't like princesses that have hijacked magic kingdom. And it could be the one actual thrill park disney could have to balance out magic kingdom. Look at it this way. You have Epcot which is already considered the "adult" park of Disney, you have magic kingdom which is the family park, you have animal kingdom which not many people seem to like and you have Hollywood studios, the only place with two actual thrill rides. If you set a park just for villians, Disney could potential steal the Universal guests. One, little kids and villians don't mix so no one is going to try to bring their three and four year old in there if they can't handle it, however, teens, tweens, adults will flock to the park, secretly we all have a villian we love and the fact they don't walk around the park most of the parks ever will make that park so much more exclusive.

 

[DPCummerbund]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure we both said that while we are well aware it's not currently happening, it has been stated by those in the imagineers circle that WHEN they do a fifth park it will be Villains themed. No it is not in the planning stages now... No one but the financial big wigs know when, including all the folks on these boards who are professional speculators, which is apparently nearly everyone.

This is part of the issue - and part of my objection to the idea that a Villain park (or any other idea) is set in stone. First of all, there's no guarantee that a fifth gate will actually be built at all. Even if it does get built, if it's many years from now, the financial bigwigs who make that decision are under no obligation to use plans developed many years before - especially if they weren't the ones who ordered those plans to be developed in the first place.

For example, if Disney does decide to build a fifth gate, the CEO will be heavily invested in the project. Bob Iger is retiring in 2016. Even if Iger approved of the Villains concept, or even the idea of a fifth gate at all, there's no guarantee that the new CEO will like either of those ideas. In fact, it's far more likely that the new CEO will want to go forward with his or her own large projects.

When it comes to Disney - or ANY large corporation - there's just no such thing as a "permanently approved, but on hold" project like this. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

[profdsny]

I'm not crazy about that idea, but if I was CEO of Disney right now and had all the power, I'm not sure which way I'd go.
But, I strongly believe that if they were to announce a new park tomorrow, it will be 10 years before we walk through the gate.