Do You Consider Yourself a Feminist?

[luvsJack]

Why, though? Except for actually giving birth and recovery, men can take time off to care for children or other family members. Men can divide their lives between family and work.

Good question. They could divide their time too.

I have known couples that would divide the family duties. Like for a sick child, he would take off one time and her the next. Or her take off when it was crunch time for him and him when it was a crunch time for her. And the same for taking care of aging parents. My niece and her husband handle things this way. Well they don’t have aging parents yet but I imagine when the time comes, he will care for his parents and she will for hers.

It certainly can be that way for some couples. For us, dh drives a truck and is gone most weeks. I have PTO, he doesn’t. So financially, it wouldn’t make sense for us for him to take the time. If it would have hurt my employment somehow, as in getting promotions etc, we would have certainly done things differently.

 

[luvsJack]

"Free" birth control is part of the ACA. Isn't that wonderful? Without the ACA, it was not "free"...it was whatever your insurance required you to pay. Of course, there are exceptions built in TODAY so that places like Hobby Lobby don't have to give this benefit to their employees. Don't get me started.

Short answer: birth control is not free for everyone, and is hanging by a tenuous thread. It's great that you support this. But, until we have a Congress which does, it's nothing but words.

I got my pills for free and that was long before the ACA. Apparently some covered it long before they were required to.

Not everyone has insurance. ACA has not truly made sure everyone was covered. So even with that requirement and in areas where there are no clinics that give free birth control, you will still have some in that gap.

ACA going away isn’t going to automatically make insurance companies change what they cover.

 

[Searc]

ACA going away isn’t going to automatically make insurance companies change what they cover.

LOL Yes, it will.

 

[luvsJack]

Exactly.



I am so sorry that you wnet through this. I know that "times have changed" but your expereince says otherwise. I have tried to erase those years I endured from my own mind, but you know that is not really possible.

@luvsJack - earlier you responded to my post that my coworker would not have the fundsor the ability to either hide her pregnancy or to seek an abortion. I am paraphrasing so if I am miscommunications your thoughts, please let me know. She has family who would help her financially if need be. She has us, and while she frustrates the dicken out of me because of how she tries to take control of some at work (she has not one bit at home. Hubby tells her how to behave to "get ahead" at work, and she believes him) I would not abandon her. In regards to recovery after the surgery, I took someone dear to me for an abortion because I knew she would go alone if I did not. Her situation was not good. She worked nights. She returned home late afternoon, took a very short nap and worked a 12 hour shift on her feel that night. She slept in the basement of the home, and her husband did all he could to disrupt the little rest she got on a daily basis, so how she was standing upright I have no idea. She had 4 children at the time, and one more would have killed her. I know you recite google search stats, but clearly you have no real experience in a world in which women are beaten down.

You have no idea what experience I have in the real world. As I said earlier, my ex-h and I helped my best friend get out of her abusive marriage. We were there for her through years of his abuse. We went to the police with her and for her, we went through all the courts of getting restraining orders, custody of their son and finally the divorce. She lived with us from the time she got away from him until the divorce. She was safer with us and it was the one place he wouldn’t show up. The final straw for her was when he caused her to have a miscarriage after one particularly bad beating and refused to buy milk for their child because he needed the money for a 6-pack.

When my mom and I had the child care center, we helped another young mother in an abusive situation. Started with conversations when we saw the bruises at drop off and ended with us getting her a place to stay and then on to her family in another state.

As for my comment on how a woman could hide a surgery, the conversation at the time was about a wife getting her tubes tied not an abortion. If I mixed up a comment from you with that of another poster, pregnancy/abortion wasn’t what I meant to be talking about.

 

[luvsJack]

LOL Yes, it will.

LOL no it won’t. If they previously covered it, they aren’t likely to change it. Some yes, all no.

The plan I had 35 years ago covered it then.

Besides what needs to be fought for is for every woman to have access to free birth control. Not just those with insurance.

Here you can get it from the Health Dept as well as other services. Apparently it isn’t that way in every state, and it should be.

 

[LSUmiss]

Not a single respondent in either of those studies indicated that their choice to have an abortion was because it was a method of birth control. Not one. Financial reasons, relationship problems, multiple other personal reasons. Not birth control. I'm not sure where you came up with the idea that most women who choose abortion are using it as a form of birth control.

There are approximately 450,000 children in the foster care system in the United States. 450,000 children whose parents couldn't, wouldn't or didn't take care of them. It's nice to tell sweet stories about abused and neglected children who are so tearfully grateful that they are alive, but it isn't the norm or even close.

Children who have been in the foster care system are nearly 2.5 times more likely to seriously consider suicide.
Are more than 4 times more likely to attempt suicide
Children who experience childhood abuse/trauma are 5 times more likely to attempt suicide
2/3 of suicide attempts are attributed to childhood abuse/trauma
10% of 8 year olds who are abused/neglected or at risk of being abused or neglected report being suicidal.

That is just suicide. If there are 450,000 children in the US who are in foster care, imagine the how many are suicidal.

And that doesn’t consider the societal toll of these dysfunctional adults in society & the probability of the cycle continuing.

 

[LSUmiss]

Back up to a previous post when I stated what the three biggest reasons were. I didn’t state it again in the post you are quoting because I had already said it.

I am not demonizing anyone. I am stating that all these extreme examples that we all keep discussing are not the norm.

I never said anyone makes the decision on a whim. Not once. You are reading that into it.

And you may want to spin it to say that most abortions are about more than simply not wanting to be pregnant but the facts say different. Less than .5% are because of rape and 3% due to health of the mother or baby. All I am saying is that any time abortion comes up, the stories of the rape victims and mother having to choose her life over the baby abound as though those are the main reasons for abortions. They aren’t. A lot of people that are pro life will tell you that there should be exceptions in these cases. But all that gets thrown at us are the extreme cases and “what about this one?” It’s the other 97% that we want to look at not those few.

I don’t know the answers and I do feel that the new laws coming up are extreme. But otoh, it should be harder than it has been. Again somewhere in the middle. We have a tendency in this country to change laws from one extreme to the other or not change things enough at one time. With stricter abortion laws, there should be more funding into free birth control (in areas where it’s not available), sex education, women’s and children’s healthcare. Adoption should be made to be a more desirable option. The sheer cost of it alone makes it hard for couples to adopt. Perhaps there should be government assistance with that.

Another number that gets thrown around are the 400,000 kids in foster care. Only about 100,00 are available for adoption. Still a lot but not 400,000. The foster care system includes a lot of children that they are trying to reunite with their family. For some that is good, for others not so much. Perhaps the whole system needs to be revamped. Perhaps it is the best we can do. But it seems like perhaps a good time to look at it.

For every baby that is put up for adoption there are something like 20 couples that apply to adopt. And that is what we are talking about here, babies.

I am not even sure where you are going with the “birth as easy as drinking a glass of water” comment. Birth can be and many times is a very easy process. And it can be dangerous for the mother. And it can be, and usually is, somewhere in the middle.

There is a shortage, if you will, of white babies. These statistics are not the same for African-Americans & other minorities.

 

[Searc]

LOL no it won’t. If they previously covered it, they aren’t likely to change it. Some yes, all no.

The plan I had 35 years ago covered it then.

Besides what needs to be fought for is for every woman to have access to free birth control. Not just those with insurance.

Here you can get it from the Health Dept as well as other services. Apparently it isn’t that way in every state, and it should be.

You need to brush up on the political motives behind abolishing the ACA. Abolishing it means insurance companies won't cover what is currently mandated by the ACA.

 

[LSUmiss]

It’s pro life, not anti choice. I know it’s hard for pro choice to accept they are actually pro death and want to gloss it over.

Like how often those same “pro-life” ppl support the death penalty.

 

[LSUmiss]

I would be glad to take as many unwanted children as the law would allow me to take. But why is it abortion or keeping an unwanted child? Why not encourage the woman to give the child up for adoption?

Are you seriously saying "well that child would probably end up committing a crime so he should be killed before birth"?

And what is or isn't a "sin" is pretty clear. But we all sin in one way or another so I don't think that even needs to be brought up.

Instead of bemoaning the fact that we don't live in a world of "should be", perhaps anyone that feels the things should come to pass with the abortion laws should speak out about that instead of throwing extreme cases at anyone that is pro-life?

If it’s not white, adopted to whom? And, it’s not killed before birth, it’s destroying it from continuing to develop into a viable baby. That’s different.

 

[luvsJack]

You need to brush up on the political motives behind abolishing the ACA. Abolishing it means insurance companies won't cover what is currently mandated by the ACA.

So all the more reason to want it to be available without insurance. Not every woman has insurance. They need birth control too.

I am not going to debate the ACA with you.

 

[dish rag]

Like how often those same “pro-life” ppl support the death penalty.

You must be referring to me since you quoted me and that would make your assumptions wrong again.

But it is interesting how many anti life people do not support the death penalty.

 

[luvsJack]

Like how often those same “pro-life” ppl support the death penalty.

A baby vs a seriel killer or rapist/murderer. You can’t tell me you don’t see the difference.

I only support the death penalty in certain, extreme cases btw.

 

[luvsJack]

If it’s not white, adopted to whom? And, it’s not killed before birth, it’s destroying it from continuing to develop into a viable baby. That’s different.

20 couples for ever baby put up for adoption.

And that is your belief not mine. It’s a life from conception. And how is “destroying a life” better than “killing it”?

 

[pahoben]

Well, the father can't "just walk away" ... unless the mother of the child allows it to happen. The state will pursue him. She doesn't have to have contact with him. If he's allowed to walk away, it's the fault of the mother.
Disagree.
My husband recently retired from the field of Nuclear Engineering, and he says a female engineer can "write her own ticket". By that, he means female engineers are so few in number that they'll be offered jobs everywhere /with salaries at least as good as those of their male counterparts.

This women-make-less argument is skewed. If you go to any college graduation you're going to see mostly males in the engineering group and mostly women among the education and social work grads. No one forces anyone to enter these fields, but -- by and large -- this is the way it shakes out.

Girls are actively being pushed /encouraged towards STEM fields in school, but a part of this is Biology /personality traits.
My husband picked out my ring with no input from me. It's exactly what I would've chosen, if I'd been involved. Ditto for the 10-year anniversary band that matches it.
He has the option to avoid sex or to wear a condom, if he's unwilling to face the burden of supporting a child.
I said yesterday, I no longer use these products, but -- when I did -- I used non-disposables. So much better in every way, including financial savings.
A mother cannot put a baby up for adoption without the father's consent ... unless she has claimed she doesn't know the father's name. If she's put no father's name on the birth certificate and a man thinks he's the father, he can demand a DNA test /can block the adoption until that test is done.

Something that's terribly unfair: If a woman is married, her husband will be the legal father of her child ... even if he isn't the biological father. Happened to a cousin of mine. A cousin who makes bad choices. He was living with a woman who was still married (couldn't afford the divorce, but can afford cigarettes), and they had a baby. Her long-ago /still legally the husband's name is on the child's birth certificate. The whole group should be ashamed of themselves.

When I was in school the only women in the Nuclear Engineering program were from Iran and wore traditional Muslim clothes. Now you know where they received their training.

 

[LSUmiss]

I think it's only acceptable up to about 12-14 weeks. After that I'm not comfortable with it.

And later if it won’t be a viable child or the mother’s health is in danger.

 

[LSUmiss]

So would it be ok to kill one of these unwanted humans in the delivery room or is it only ok to do it in the womb.

Sometimes, I honestly envy ppl who are able to view things in such black & white terms without having to consider all the other complexities that usually occur IRL. I think life must be easier for ppl in this camp.

 

[pahoben]

Like how often those same “pro-life” ppl support the death penalty.

I am pro choice but also support the death penalty. In fact after reading some of these stories I realize there are a lot more men that deserve the death penalty. A feminist group needs to develop a how to book that covers buying a gun and putting some of these men down while protecting yourself legally.

 

[SaintsManiac]

You must be referring to me since you quoted me and that would make your assumptions wrong again.

But it is interesting how many anti life people do not support the death penalty.

Anti life? What does that mean?

 

[LSUmiss]

Interesting. I am pro death penalty (the man who raped and killed 3 women? He had a CHOICE in what he did. A baby does not) but I am not "pro war" although I must say I have never met anyone who was "pro war", even the multitude of military members that are in my family.

You are honestly saying a person who doesn't think the military budget should be cut in half is "pro war"?? Are you kidding me? That has to be the dumbest correlation I have ever read in my life. Do I think the budget should be cut? No. Am I pro war? No. Sorry, but I like knowing someone is standing on that wall protecting me tonight (to take a line from A Few Good Men) and I like knowing he/she is well trained to do so.

I do think we need healthcare in this country. Not that mess we have/had, but actual nationalized health care.

But then you’re not pro-life. Like is life. Your pro the lives you deem are worth living.