Elephant in the room....

[cruisin5]

VB and HHI sold out ages ago; with a maximum number of rooms of 443; not a significant number of point in the system.

Even with something like 1300 rooms at SSR, the resort was sold out over ten years ago, and at this point, it seems to be increasing in popularity. Sure, it's not GFV, but it does have more appeal than it used to. Nevertheless, wasn't it always at or close to %100 occupancy?

The "problem" is a new one ... small point contracts? Renters?

Didn't Skier_Pete determine there isn't a huge difference over time in his charts at seven months? (I could be misremembering this though!)

 

[Frederic Civish]

I certainly knew the rules and did not book every ressie day by day.

I do understand the pain in the rear part of day by day, but it’s hard to deny it was fair.

I will agree it was fair. So, then I ask, how is the current system that allows Walking UNFAIR? It is also an option that is open to everyone. Everyone has the same chances to book 'in advance' and Walk. That is INCONVENIENT maybe, for people that choose not to walk, but how is that unfair?

 

[crvetter]

The "problem" is a new one ... small point contracts? Renters?

I think it is people who intend to stay in studios only because they don't find the value in larger units. So these people are buying smaller amount of points because they intend studios only. Also the reference to VB and HHI is people are "bargain" shopping for those on the resale market (and even direct) with intentions to only use at WDW @Frederic Civish pointed out very concisely that if a resort has rooms available and going to breakage than owners at that resort are either 1) letting their points expire or 2) for those days owners at that resort aren't booking there but else where. Essentially the problem relates to DVC being used by bargain hunters. Which more power to them because that how the product works.

So it really isn't a new "problem" but an older system with a new age of users that aren't interested in the prior set-up. Just changing demographics.

Also renters in no way are the problem because those points were sold and can be used. So how they get used is irrelevant. But renting has changed the demographics by exposing DVC and the resorts to bargain hunters even more. Though the savings over Disney is much more prevalent on the Studios over 1/2 bedrooms so obviously more renters are looking specifically for studios since it is the most value add

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

Never had a Swiss cheese moment when I booked day by day, but than again I always got my behind out f bed to do it first thing AM. It would be extremely hard to have holes in the ressie that way. I only booked day by day for certain ressies, such as a Vero Cottage during summer. I certainly knew the rules and did not book every ressie day by day.
I do understand the pain in the rear part of day by day, but it’s hard to deny it was fair.

When a person never had an issue they think the system was wonderful. I'd guess your feelings might be different had you ever had an issue. The rooms are there and someone has to get them so happy for you that you always did.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

I will agree it was fair. So, then I ask, how is the current system that allows Walking UNFAIR? It is also an option that is open to everyone. Everyone has the same chances to book 'in advance' and Walk. That is INCONVENIENT maybe, for people that choose not to walk, but how is that unfair?

Because walking can block rooms that will never intended to be used. Day by day that was impossible.

 

[crvetter]

Because walking can block rooms that will never intended to be used. Day by day that was impossible.

While that is true, I would say what abuse of the system (as it existed during the implementation of the abuse) was less evil? This is a very subjective answer that depends on the users experience. Those that waited until their check-out day to book their entire stay (as was the previous system) were left with many holes because day-by-day bookers were finding a loophole (more a reliance that MS would be nice to link your day by day reservations into one). The others who are affected by walkers find this more evil because they can't book a resort at 11 months out for their check in day. Both day-by-day bookers and walkers both found a loophole in the system but both are a loophole none the less. I suspect when they did booking your stay from checkout people that wanted longer stays were affected at higher rates than those who wanted shorted stays (this holds true with or without day by day bookers). This "swiss-cheese" problem probably led to more rooms ending up in breakage because people didn't want to switch constantly from resort to resort or room to room. So I'm guessing Disney finds the problems caused by walkers to be less inconvenient to the system. Also inherently in a perfect system (no loopholes being used) when booking 11 months out from your check-out day explicitly punished a class of owners; whereas, the current system punishes no one.

Also there is nothing in the current POS that says MS must link your reservations together so under a day-by-day booking MS could start deny doing that.

 

[Maistre Gracey]

When a person never had an issue they think the system was wonderful. I'd guess your feelings might be different had you ever had an issue. The rooms are there and someone has to get them so happy for you that you always did.

Well, to be honest... We had to bid our vacas a year in advance so, if you didn’t get your exact date you were hosed.

 

[Pooh12863]

You are confused about the banking window. The banking window is the first 8 months of your UY when you may cancel any reservation and those points that are from the current UY are eligible to be banked into the next UY. You run into trouble ("miss your banking window ") when the cancellation date for a reservation with dates in the last 4 months of your UY is made after those initial 8 months.

For instance, my UY is August and my banking window closes on March 31. If I make a reservation for July 30th with UY18 points, I can cancel it and bank any points forward to UY19 until March 31st. If I wait until April 1st to do it, I'm now in the last 4 months of my UY and those points are now stuck in UY18.

Since all walking activity, by default, happens in the 11th month (and sometimes 7th month) window all current UY points are booked and cancelled within the booking window.

Back to my UY for an example. If wanted to walk a reservation across my UY boundary (July 2020/Aug 2020), I would have to start booking July 2020 in August 2019 with my brand new UY19 points. As I cross the UY, I cancel the July 2020 dates and book the August 2020 dates with UY20 points. BUT, since I'm canceling in SEPTEMBER 2019 those UY19 points are still perfectly valid to be banked all the way until March 31, 2020.

I've done a few faux modifications to my existing reservations without completing the last step just to see how this walking stuff works. When I got to the screen where you choose what points you use, they were locked and wouldn't let me change which points to use. YMMV.

 

[robinb]

I've done a few faux modifications to my existing reservations without completing the last step just to see how this walking stuff works. When I got to the screen where you choose what points you use, they were locked and wouldn't let me change which points to use. YMMV.

My mileage won't vary. I have no idea why some contracts were locked, but it is impossible for points being used during an active walk to fall victim to the booking window. The points you are using MUST be valid to be used in 11 (or 7) months, so they must have AT LEAST 11 (7) months of "life" left. The booking window closes when points have only 4 months of "life" left.

 

[keishashadow]

I've never tried to book a reservation spanning UYs but I would assume that you could call MS and have them do it and over the phone. From my reading you would have 2 separate reservations but I believe that MS can override the 11-month window and book the back end of the reservation for you in the new UY.

I know the policy on this one

We do fall trip the first week of October every year. We start the Saturday prior to actual first week. Last two years that fell in September.

We have an Oct UY at BWV. If necessary I book the first night I need in September, then call MS to book the remaining reservation. They are able to complete it within the standard # of maximum days so that it is all under one reservation with no need to checkin twice via linked res.

 

[zavandor]

The access to information is much different than it was 10 -20 years ago. So while it always may have occurred the potential for it to become more prevalent exists everyday and the potential for it to grow will be exponential.

The need to walk may not be required but so many people reading the many many discussion boards may create an artificial need to do it thinking its the only way to get what they want. How many times has it been stated in this thread 'walking guarantees you get what you want'. IF this happens then yes walking we be a problem. Only time will tell

It reminds me of disney cruises. The cheapest time to get a stateroom is opening day. As rooms sell the price goes up. Deposits are fully refundable so Many will book opening day and the price starts to climb. Then people cancel before PIF date. Some feel the need to book a cruise just to get the best price with no actual plan to cruise at that time.

The day they release cruise dates is crazy. When they released the last round some categories booked up within hours. Then once the dust settles its thread after thread of "DCL is too expensive". I get this example is slightly different as it involves cash but more of an example of an artificially created problem that doesn't violate any rules. We're doing a cruise next jan and i remember when they released the dates i frantically checked my phone hoping my TA booked early as i watched the price climb.

I'm not expecting to change yours or anyones opinion of it. Just my 2 cents

I agree that the need to walk is mostly a self fulfilling prophecy. Very few rooms need to be walked and most of them not even all year around. I just got BWV and BLT standard for my stay in September 2019 at 7 months. Whoever has walked those rooms all summer up to September just wasted his time (except maybe July 4th). Possibly the 5 club level rooms are the only that need walking all year around. Changing the booking rules to prevent walkers may hurt members much more than walking itself.

However it is also true that over time, a resort ownership and booking habits may change.
DVC will always try to sell the current resort to everyone, even people who state that resort is not their favorite: "you can book any other resort at 7 months, look for example at those value AKV rooms…".
Existing members who add on mostly do so to book that resort, but the vast majority of new owners are just sold it and over time may use their points at other resorts. After the resort sells out and people start to sell, they are replaced by new owners:
- if the resort is successful and they price stay high, they pay that premium to only stay there
- if the resort is not successful, they buy to use cheap points elsewhere
There is little doubt that the former happens at BCV and BWV. They have half the remaining life on the contract than CCV and yet they're not sold for much less. People who buy there now do so to book there and this cause more competition at 11 months and less availability at 7 months. So while people shouldn't panic and start walking months in advance for at least 9 months, it is true that some time of the year competition is fierce. How many posts have we read of people who buy the Crescent lake resorts to book F&W? That's the "joy" of a point system, everyone buys thinking they'll book their favorite time of the year, but not everyone can.
The 2020 original points charts showed a timid seasonal rebalance, some form of it could be back in 2021.

 

[DougEMG]

What I hate is the 8 am open of the booking window, that works out to 5am for me. What a huge pain trying to book a 3-4 week trip. Why can't they just have the system always open and just switch to the new day at midnight EST.

And the old day by day system would totally suck. I'll take walkers any day over that.

 

[Mikamarii]

I will agree it was fair. So, then I ask, how is the current system that allows Walking UNFAIR? It is also an option that is open to everyone. Everyone has the same chances to book 'in advance' and Walk. That is INCONVENIENT maybe, for people that choose not to walk, but how is that unfair?

I think the reason I believe it is unfair is because there is no set date where everyone is on an equal playing field.

The way the system is set up the 11month/7 month window gives an exact date for everyone to log on and book the room. Everyone is in competition for the same type of room on the same date.

For example: We are planning to go to Aulani in January 2021 - currently the 11mth window would be February and the 7 month window would June (we are non owners). The plan is 14 nights in a 1BR standard view as that gives us the most nights (we are # of nights people not view people)

My use year is October. To ensure there is no complications with points expiring/crossing use years I could technically start booking a reservation of Oct1 2020 through September 30, 2021. My 7mth Aulani window means I could technically start walking a reservation March 1st for an Oct01 start date. Lets say I want my arrival date to be Jan 28. 11mth booking date would be Feb28 2020. I could start my walk Mar01 which is only 1 day later than the 11mth window.

Now to further the example. Lets say someone wants the same date as me but has an August use year. That means the first room they can start booking in the use year is August 1.They could start their walk in January. Now that non owner has my walk beat by 2 months.

In my scenario I think the 'need' to walk is irrelevant. The point is that it exists. I have to plan my vacation dates about 18 months out. So I may not need to walk that reservation but by doing so I can guarantee that I get my 14 nights vs, lets say, 10 in an Ocean view.

I am fully new to this walking idea and, in fact, never even really knew it existed and how to do it until I joined Disboards about 8 months ago. So I may be totally off in how my example rolled out or missing some key info that would block this from happening.

So again, the reason I think it is unfair is there is no set date when to 'start a walk' and use year can now give a distinct advantage as to when to start it. From what I've read on the pages I fully understand and agree that it isn't necessary for all rooms but if the mantra is to walk a room to guarantee what you want if you are willing to put in the extra work then there is nothing stopping anyone from walking so far out.

ETA - In looking at more I believe it's impossible to block an owner by a non-owner.

 

[ziravan]

I think the reason I believe it is unfair is because there is no set date where everyone is on an equal playing field.

The way the system is set up the 11month/7 month window gives an exact date for everyone to log on and book the room. Everyone is in competition for the same type of room on the same date.

For example: We are planning to go to Aulani in January 2021 - currently the 11mth window would be February and the 7 month window would June (we are non owners). The plan is 14 nights in a 1BR standard view as that gives us the most nights (we are # of nights people not view people)

My use year is October. To ensure there is no complications with points expiring/crossing use years I could technically start booking a reservation of Oct1 2020 through September 30, 2021. My 7mth Aulani window means I could technically start walking a reservation March 1st for an Oct01 start date. Lets say I want my arrival date to be Jan 28. 11mth booking date would be Feb28 2020. I could start my walk Mar01 which is only 1 day later than the 11mth window.

Now to further the example. Lets say someone wants the same date as me but has an August use year. That means the first room they can start booking in the use year is August 1.They could start their walk in January. Now that non owner has my walk beat by 2 months and is actually ahead of the 11 month window for owners of the Aulani for a January date.

In my scenario I think the 'need' to walk is irrelevant. The point is that it exists. I have to plan my vacation dates about 18 months out. So I may not need to walk that reservation but by doing so I can guarantee that I get my 14 nights vs, lets say, 10 in an Ocean view.

I am fully new to this walking idea and, in fact, never even really new it existed and how to do it until I joined Disboards about 8 months ago. So I may be totally off in how my example rolled out or missing some key info that would block this from happening.

So again, the reason I think it is unfair is there is no set date when to 'start a walk' and use year can now give a distinct advantage as to when to start it. From what I've read on the pages I fully understand and agree that it isn't necessary for all rooms but if the mantra is to walk a room to guarantee what you want if you are willing to put in the extra work then there is nothing stopping anyone from walking so far out.

A non-home resort owner can’t “outwalk” a home resort owner. That non-home resort owner can never walk into the 11 month window because they can only book 7 months out, and as time moves forward, the restriction stays the same on that fixed date being sought. Walking might slide dates, but the goal is to achieve a fixed date, when you want the room. That fixed date will always put the non-home resort owner four months behind the home resort owner.

Example, it’s January 1 and two people want to book a resort for 12/15. The home resort owner can walk the room now, booking 12/1 and sliding forward by two weeks. The non-home resort owner can’t walk the room until the home resort window expires, May 15. As time moves forward, the walking dates move, but the target date doesn’t. That 7 month walker isn’t bound by the moving targets of walking but by the final date, a non-moving target that won’t ever open to the non-resort owner prior to the 7 month window opening.

Even if the non-home resort walker books 12/1-12/7 on May 1, that’s the result of the home window for 12/1 expiring on May 1. Any home resort owner in May can book any date from 12/7-12/15 and still interrupt the non-resort walker. Same thing if the non-resort owner books on Jan 1 for August 1 and tries to walk his reservation to December. At any given time during that four month walk, a home resort owner can, and probably will, interrupt the walk.

 

[Mikamarii]

yup I realized that as soon as posted that. *whoops*. But am I right in the rest of the theory when comparing owner to owner and non owner to non owner? Assuming all the points stay in the same use year the UY would have a distinct advantage in when to start the walk? Depending on booking dates of course.

 

[ziravan]

yup I realized that as soon as posted that. *whoops*. But am I right in the rest of the theory when comparing owner to owner and non owner to non owner? Assuming all the points stay in the same use year the UY would have a distinct advantage in when to start the walk? Depending on booking dates of course.

A more distinct advantage would be larger point owners. Regardless of UY, if I have 3x as many points as you do, I’m at an advantage to walk because I can more afford to “play out” my points.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I think the reason I believe it is unfair is because there is no set date where everyone is on an equal playing field.

The way the system is set up the 11month/7 month window gives an exact date for everyone to log on and book the room. Everyone is in competition for the same type of room on the same date.

For example: We are planning to go to Aulani in January 2021 - currently the 11mth window would be February and the 7 month window would June (we are non owners). The plan is 14 nights in a 1BR standard view as that gives us the most nights (we are # of nights people not view people)

My use year is October. To ensure there is no complications with points expiring/crossing use years I could technically start booking a reservation of Oct1 2020 through September 30, 2021. My 7mth Aulani window means I could technically start walking a reservation March 1st for an Oct01 start date. Lets say I want my arrival date to be Jan 28. 11mth booking date would be Feb28 2020. I could start my walk Mar01 which is only 1 day later than the 11mth window.

Now to further the example. Lets say someone wants the same date as me but has an August use year. That means the first room they can start booking in the use year is August 1.They could start their walk in January. Now that non owner has my walk beat by 2 months.

In my scenario I think the 'need' to walk is irrelevant. The point is that it exists. I have to plan my vacation dates about 18 months out. So I may not need to walk that reservation but by doing so I can guarantee that I get my 14 nights vs, lets say, 10 in an Ocean view.

I am fully new to this walking idea and, in fact, never even really knew it existed and how to do it until I joined Disboards about 8 months ago. So I may be totally off in how my example rolled out or missing some key info that would block this from happening.

So again, the reason I think it is unfair is there is no set date when to 'start a walk' and use year can now give a distinct advantage as to when to start it. From what I've read on the pages I fully understand and agree that it isn't necessary for all rooms but if the mantra is to walk a room to guarantee what you want if you are willing to put in the extra work then there is nothing stopping anyone from walking so far out.

ETA - In looking at more I believe it's impossible to block an owner by a non-owner.

In actuality walking is the great equalizer. It works for both small point owners and large point owners. It works for home resort and not so much for a non home resort although could have some potential there but it's iffy.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Couldn’t get a full week at a standard studio at BLT for late January at 11 month window. If people are walking late January wouldnt that mean people are pretty much walking year round for a BLT standard studio? I know...I know. Nothing to see here...... maybe walking bump from SWGE? Renters?

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

Couldn’t get a full week at a standard studio at BLT for late January at 11 month window. If people are walking late January wouldnt that mean people are pretty much walking year round for a BLT standard studio? I know...I know. Nothing to see here...... maybe walking bump from SWGE? Renters?

I booked a 2BR dedicated standard view at BLT for a mid January check in date (Jan 14) and 2BR standard view lockoff was still available after i had grabbed my dedicated. So if walkers did block you out it seems they only started a few days before you as standard view studios were available at 8:05am on my 11 month day last week. Hopefully that's a sign walking hasn't gone 365 at BLT....yet

 

[ParkHoppers]

I booked a 2BR dedicated standard view at BLT for a mid January check in date (Jan 14) and 2BR standard view lockoff was still available after i had grabbed my dedicated. So if walkers did block you out it seems they only started a few days before you as standard view studios were available at 8:05am on my 11 month day last week. Hopefully that's a sign walking hasn't gone 365 at BLT....yet

Yeah I,ll take what I can get and just waitlist the rest.......in late January