Gator grabs 2 year old at Grand Floridian?

[ELSA711]

A tad different as there are more than 100,000 injuries per year by horses, and over 100 deaths per year. Plus gators are everywhere, I'm not sure how the state could mandate signs everywhere.

Sorta said the same thing in my response, would most likely fall under the insurance company and I bet it will now.

 

[dlavender]

Same reason most signs are posted. Because a lawyer suggested it would reduce legal liability. I'm not and never have disputed the fact that Disney chose to avoid the word alligator. Nor am I interested in "defending" Disney.

I just despise those who jump in, make up facts and place blame. Which is what you are doing.

I'm placing blame based on what I believe is negligence. You don't blame them for not properly disclosing that people should stay out vs no swimming? Did they write no swimming by accident? Just came out that way?

What facts did I make up? They don't have a team to pull out gators? They never received reports of gators? Did I create that Yellowstone park sign, to trick you?

You are jumping in, and making up lies.......To each his own.

 

[Delgado]

A tad different as there are more than 100,000 injuries per year by horses, and over 100 deaths per year. Plus gators are everywhere, I'm not sure how the state could mandate signs everywhere.

Gators aren't everywhere. And that statistic isnt fair because horses are more plenty and you dont ride and train them....unless youre in a dr seuss book.

 

[angelmav]

Same reason most signs are posted. Because a lawyer suggested it would reduce legal liability. I'm not and never have disputed the fact that Disney chose to avoid the word alligator. Nor am I interested in "defending" Disney.

I just despise those who jump in, make up facts and place blame. Which is what you are doing.

So, Danger, Use caution, black ice ahead is because the lawyers said so. Got it. Yeah...You really don't seem to be defending any particular entity with this line of reasoning...

 

[walt's assistant]

I've been going to WDW since the park opened in 1971. I've been all over that property in small boats (canoes and motorized), including many of the backwater tributaries that are not commonly traveled by the public. In all that time, I have NEVER seen a single gator nor any evidence of one...and I am a native Floridian. This made sense to me as the idea of WDW permitting alligators to reside in the Seven Seas Lagoon as well as Bay Lake is unthinkable. Now we are hearing there are alligators in Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon, and not just one or two newcomers but several...permitted to RESIDE. Granted, the gator population is exploding and the job of removing them is more difficult now. However, I come back to the notion of permitting dangerous animals in areas where guests frequent. What sensible person allows this, recognizing that an injury or death is inevitable?

This begs us to ask how much resource have WDW has been committing to wildlife management and, specifically, to the removal of dangerous animals in areas where guests frequent. Have the bean counters gone too far with cutbacks?

Another issue few talk about: wild boars. I have seen some big ones there in my time; one was trotting along in broad daylight down World Drive last time I was there! What is WDW going to say if a guest is bitten by a sow because they stumbled upon her piglets at Fort Wilderness?

Again, I know it is a difficult job. But it must be done. You cannot have guests in a situation where they could be harmed by a dangerous animal.

 

[Delgado]

ParkHoppers said: "I am a Disney lover and DVC owner. Though I am not going lay blame I do get the feeling that Disney didn't have gators signs is because it doesn't go well with the Happiest Place on Earth vibe that they are trying to sell. I mean how many people would have been using those beaches had the signs already been in place. Just the feeling I have on this sad,sad event."

If there are internal memos/emails discussing beach signage not including language about alligators then it will never get to a courtroom and we will never know. And I have a suspicion there just might be. How could Disney not have internally discussed this and made the conscious decision to not include such a warning? It's just a matter of whether or not they put it in writing somewhere.

The visual of a brinks truck being backed up after thats proven makes me sick. And even more sad for these parents. Many people say money makes things easier but I disagree. Everytime you spend that money even if it is for something wonderful like sending your kids to college you have to relive the reality of what happened. I know that all they can do is give them money but man oh man.

 

[ELSA711]

So, Danger, Use caution, black ice ahead is because the lawyers said so. Got it. Yeah...You really don't seem to be defending any particular entity with this line of reasoning...

States and townships do have legal representation so yes that's possible. I sat at a township meeting when the board members were suggesting a new stop sign on a certain road and it was the township lawyers suggestion that they went with. I'm not sure if this is what was being suggested but yes, even townships and counties have lawyers that serve.

 

[LSLS]

Gators aren't everywhere. And that statistic isnt fair because horses are more plenty and you dont ride and train them....unless youre in a dr seuss book.

Gators are everywhere in Florida. We had a gator show up on the admission steps of my former college. They show up in pools all the time. Find me a pond/lake that has never seen a gator. They have been found in the ocean (sometimes miles out to sea). Why would you think they are not everywhere? I was talking about mandates by the state, I wouldn't mean they are in Minnesota, the state would regulate the state of Florida.

 

[ParkHoppers]

I am very sad for the family of the victim. I am sad for those that witnessed the event. I am sad for those on vacation at Disney at the time of this tragedy. I am sad for Disney for having had this happen on their property. I am sad for those on here being affected by this horrible event. Just wanted to add that to what I have been posting.

 

[team weasel]

Does anyone know how long the current "no swimming" signs have been in place? Could the verbiage on the sign be indicative of the transition period between when swimming was allowed on the beach and when it was not? If the original purpose of the signs was truly to inform guests that swimming was no longer allowed, that may provide insight into why "no swimming" was chosen over "stay out of the water - danger". Now that the threat has unfortunately made itself known to the world at large at the expense of a 2-year old baby's life, the signs should and will change. Unfortunately, we'll never know if an updated sign with stronger language would have made a difference.

People make questionable decisions all the time. Heck, I make at least 3 a day. That family is going to regret the choice of: visiting Disney World, watching the movie on the beach, staying up until 9, letting Lane play in the water...for the rest of their lives. They'll question every decision they made leading up to the event of his death. And unfortunately, because of how and where it happened, they'll do most of it under the scrutiny of the general public. I just can't imagine.

 

[ParkHoppers]

Gators are everywhere in Florida. We had a gator show up on the admission steps of my former college. They show up in pools all the time. Find me a pond/lake that has never seen a gator. They have been found in the ocean (sometimes miles out to sea). Why would you think they are not everywhere? I was talking about mandates by the state, I wouldn't mean they are in Minnesota, the state would regulate the state of Florida.

You don't honestly think that ALL visitors to a beach at a Disney resort are aware that a gator could be just out of view in the water in front of them. Do you? In my experience two signs are pretty darn effective. In saltwater a warning of sharks and in freshwater a warning of gators. I personally don't know anyone who would ignore those two signs.

 

[LSLS]

You don't honestly think that ALL visitors to a beach at a Disney resort are aware that a gator could be just out of view in the water in front of them. Do you? In my experience two signs are pretty darn effective. In saltwater a warning of sharks and in freshwater a warning of gators. I personally don't know anyone who would ignore those two signs.

No, I was responding to the comparison of horses in PA being required by the state to have warning signs. I had stated that it was a bit different because there are a lot more injuries and deaths due to horses, and that it would be difficult to mandate because you would need signs everywhere to comply with the state mandate. I'm not saying people are aware at Disney, or that signs are not warranted at this point. Just stating there is no real way the state could mandate it.

 

[a4matte]

Did someone post this yet? Fences are going up along the shoreline.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Did someone post this yet? Fences are going up along the shoreline.

Interesting..while it may be a while (since it is still so fresh in all our minds) I expect to see pics, videos, and stories later on stating people went over the fence and/or perhaps a gator climbing over or getting through the fence (depending on what it is made out of)..and honestly people will then probably say "the fence wasn't enough"

 

[a4matte]

Interesting..while it may be a while (since it is still so fresh in all our minds) I expect to see pics, videos, and stories later on stating people went over the fence and/or perhaps a gator climbing over the fence..and honestly people will then probably say "the fence wasn't enough"

A fence will not keep a gator out, period. It's to keep people out.

 

[LSLS]

I said it once and I will say it again, the importance of the fencing (looks like it will be more of ropes) will not be to keep gators out (which will not happen), but to keep people from crossing into the water. You will still find gators potentially sun bathing on the beaches, but hopefully these will keep people away from the water.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

A fence will not keep a gator out, period. It's to keep people out.

Yeah not disputing that point..rteez already gave us tons of information regarding that. But a fence will not keep people out either..it's just a deterrent that will not be followed by EVERY person who encounters it.

 

[crayon3448]

I said it once and I will say it again, the importance of the fencing (looks like it will be more of ropes) will not be to keep gators out (which will not happen), but to keep people from crossing into the water. You will still find gators potentially sun bathing on the beaches, but hopefully these will keep people away from the water.

My concern is that a fence will just trick people into a false sense of security.

 

[Jeslynb]

If there are internal memos/emails discussing beach signage not including language about alligators then it will never get to a courtroom and we will never know. And I have a suspicion there just might be. How could Disney not have internally discussed this and made the conscious decision to not include such a warning? It's just a matter of whether or not they put it in writing somewhere.

No, it's the opposite. Internal memos are "discoverable" and we enter them into evidence in court all the time. Exception of course would be a memo from their attorney, which would be privileged/excluded. It also needn't be in a memo or even in writing: employees and ex-employees can also be deposed. I take no position on whether any such information exists, but if it does, it will probably come out quite readily. Disney is too smart to destroy evidence.

As for the signage, we can all debate it until we pass out from lack of oxygen, but this type of situation has been heavily litigated and there is case law as to what kind of signage is "reasonable". That's not to say it's black and white. It never is. But I would venture to say that if Disney was aware of the presence of alligators, the lack of specific warning and the presence of nearby sandy beach with lounge chairs makes things difficult for them. Not impossible, just not great. Attractive nuisance will be an interesting theory to watch as it generally doesn't apply to lakes, even man-made ones, as long as they "appear" natural. I know, law is weird.

Terrible, tragic event - the poor family will never recover.

 

[jimsanfilippo]

I've been going to WDW since the park opened in 1971. I've been all over that property in small boats (canoes and motorized), including many of the backwater tributaries that are not commonly traveled by the public. In all that time, I have NEVER seen a single gator nor any evidence of one...and I am a native Floridian. This made sense to me as the idea of WDW permitting alligators to reside in the Seven Seas Lagoon as well as Bay Lake is unthinkable. Now we are hearing there are alligators in Bay Lake and the Seven Seas Lagoon, and not just one or two newcomers but several...permitted to RESIDE. Granted, the gator population is exploding and the job of removing them is more difficult now. However, I come back to the notion of permitting dangerous animals in areas where guests frequent. What sensible person allows this, recognizing that an injury or death is inevitable?

This begs us to ask how much resource have WDW has been committing to wildlife management and, specifically, to the removal of dangerous animals in areas where guests frequent. Have the bean counters gone too far with cutbacks?

Another issue few talk about: wild boars. I have seen some big ones there in my time; one was trotting along in broad daylight down World Drive last time I was there! What is WDW going to say if a guest is bitten by a sow because they stumbled upon her piglets at Fort Wilderness?

Again, I know it is a difficult job. But it must be done. You cannot have guests in a situation where they could be harmed by a dangerous animal.

We have been to Disney World over 20 times and never gave any thought to alligators being on property until last September when we saw one IN Magic Kingdom right by the pathway near the Tom Sawyer Island dock (see the red dot on the map). It was 4 feet long, I would estimate. The CM we pointed it out to didn't seem to care in the slightest! That was our wake-up call. But prior to that I honestly never would have expected they were on property. Call us naive but the thought never crossed our minds.