How Can Parents Be So Clueless?

[PrincessTiffany]

Most of the people on this thread seem to be rational thinking people who understand that leaving a 5 year old child alone in a running car is dangerous, perhaps criminal.

The rest of you who seem to be coming up with any/every excuse you can think of and running all these irrelevant scenarios to justify lazy a*s, pathetic parents and their parenting "styles" are somewhat pathetic yourselves. It almost comes off like you are trying to justify your parenting and the choices you are making with your children. What's that Shakespeare line about "Me thinks he doth protest too much . . .?"

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

Can I get a Ding Ding ?!?

 

[kt_mom]

Most of the people on this thread seem to be rational thinking people who understand that leaving a 5 year old child alone in a running car is dangerous, perhaps criminal.

The rest of you who seem to be coming up with any/every excuse you can think of and running all these irrelevant scenarios to justify lazy a*s, pathetic parents and their parenting "styles" are somewhat pathetic yourselves. It almost comes off like you are trying to justify your parenting and the choices you are making with your children. What's that Shakespeare line about "Me thinks he doth protest too much . . .?"

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

Can I get a Ding Ding ?!?

Your exactly right. There are children all over this country who are abused, traumatized or end up in foster care. Where you are wrong is that its not because they were left in the car alone inside a locked car for 5 minutes outside a gas station at 8 years old.

ETA: This has gone beyond just a 5 year old in a running car to include any and all children of any age at any time, car on or off. No matter what. Which some of us rational thinking people realize is ridiculous. I would love to hear what a cop would say when called about a 15 year old left in a car alone. Its just ridiculous to throw out blanket statements and not acknowledge that every situation has to be looked at and decided based on the facts in that situation. But there are many on this thread that absolutely refuse to acknowledge that every situation is different.

 

[ccgirl]

Most of the people on this thread seem to be rational thinking people who understand that leaving a 5 year old child alone in a running car is dangerous, perhaps criminal.

The rest of you who seem to be coming up with any/every excuse you can think of and running all these irrelevant scenarios to justify lazy a*s, pathetic parents and their parenting "styles" are somewhat pathetic yourselves. It almost comes off like you are trying to justify your parenting and the choices you are making with your children. What's that Shakespeare line about "Me thinks he doth protest too much . . .?"

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

Can I get a Ding Ding ?!?

The funny part is those other people aren't the ones calling others names. It must be nice to be perfect. Hope that horse isn't too high or you might fall off. ding...ding.....

 

[Wadecool]

Your exactly right. There are children all over this country who are abused, traumatized or end up in foster care. Where you are wrong is that its not because they were left in the car alone inside a locked car for 5 minutes outside a gas station at 8 years old.

ETA: This has gone beyond just a 5 year old in a running car to include any and all children of any age at any time, car on or off. No matter what. Which some of us rational thinking people realize is ridiculous. I would love to hear what a cop would say when called about a 15 year old left in a car alone. Its just ridiculous to throw out blanket statements and not acknowledge that every situation has to be looked at and decided based on the facts in that situation. But there are many on this thread that absolutely refuse to acknowledge that every situation is different.

Regarding the part in bold, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but ultimately that's all it is. Adding the fact that this opinion is coming from someone who admits to regularly leaving a child alone in an unattended vehicle, and it's clear that this opinion should be taken with 100 pounds of salt and is anything but rational.

 

[Wadecool]

Most of the people on this thread seem to be rational thinking people who understand that leaving a 5 year old child alone in a running car is dangerous, perhaps criminal.

The rest of you who seem to be coming up with any/every excuse you can think of and running all these irrelevant scenarios to justify lazy a*s, pathetic parents and their parenting "styles" are somewhat pathetic yourselves. It almost comes off like you are trying to justify your parenting and the choices you are making with your children. What's that Shakespeare line about "Me thinks he doth protest too much . . .?"

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

Can I get a Ding Ding ?!?

 

[nchulka]

Most of the people on this thread seem to be rational thinking people who understand that leaving a 5 year old child alone in a running car is dangerous, perhaps criminal.

The rest of you who seem to be coming up with any/every excuse you can think of and running all these irrelevant scenarios to justify lazy a*s, pathetic parents and their parenting "styles" are somewhat pathetic yourselves. It almost comes off like you are trying to justify your parenting and the choices you are making with your children. What's that Shakespeare line about "Me thinks he doth protest too much . . .?"

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

Can I get a Ding Ding ?!?

Let's follow your lack of logic out to it's conclusion. You think all parents who YOU declare to be neglectful to lose their children to the foster care system, which is insanely overcrowded already. Then you think a bunch of wonderful parents that are like-minded as you are going to step up to adopt all the poor children who were abandoned by their parents while they bought some milk and bread at the store. This only makes sense in la-la land. The truth would be that if there was some sort of crack down on school age children left in cars in parking lots as their parents picked up a few items the system would completely shut down. There would be kids needing foster families everywhere. I have some friends who are foster parents, they take in severely abused children or severely neglected children (like mom goes out for 2-3 days at a time leaving toddlers to fend for themselves while she sells herself for drug money). Those are the kids the system is for, those are the kind it helps. It isn't there so any parent you disagree with can have their kids ripped from them and placed with another family. Do you have any idea of the kinds of abuse that goes on in foster homes???

What if someday someone disagrees with you on one of your parenting decisions, should they have the right to call the authorities and rip your kids away? Maybe you think that at 11 your son should be able to walk 4 blocks to school, maybe someone else thinks you're a bad lazy mom for allowing that and decides to have your son taken away to live with a good mom who will chauffeur his little butt to the next door neighbors house so he never has to walk!

I am a very good mother, I am extremely involved in my kids lives. I participate in cub scouts and girl scouts and all their events at school. I also expect my kids to be able to do some things on their own as they grow up. It's really all about perspective. Last summer I set up a tent in our fenced backyard for my daughter to have friends spend the night. None of the moms would let their kids sleep outside, they could spend the night but only in the house, my daughter came up to me and told me how sad that was that none of their mom's trusted them and then told me how glad she is that I trust her!

Can anyone think of one story out there of a kid being kidnapped from a store parking lot. There was the one of the boy who was in the car and the guy shoved him out and he was tangled in the belt and dragged to death, tragic yes, common NO. And it was not an intentional kidnapping, the guy didn't want the kid, only the car. There's also the story yesterday of the 2 year old "missing" a hour later. That is hardly a normal story, I'm betting the mom did something to him and that is her cover story. Can anyone think of an actual incident where a child has been intentionally kidnapped out of a crowded parking lot??? Anyone??? My guess is it has happened somewhere, sometime, just as just about anything you could think of probably happened somewhere, sometime to someone. But it doesn't make it common, or something to fear.

As for our little ding dong common sense bell ringing friend. Here's a true story for you (as opposed to your totally untrue reports of that Smart kid who was just found who had been missing for 15 years ). A woman from Europe was here in the States with her baby. She went to a coffee house and parked her stroller outside the door with her sleeping baby and went in to get some coffee. A busybody (like coolwade) called in cops instead of stepping into the coffeeshop to ask who's baby this was. The cops came and questioned her on allegations of child neglect and abandonment. She was shocked. In her country this is a normal custom, no one brings strollers inside, everyone leaves babies in strollers outside coffee shops, boutiques, cafes, etc. She is freed and leaves the country immediately going home to tell everyone she knows about how American's have no common sense. Of course she hadn't neglected or abandoned her baby she was right in the shop, only a few feet away.

So common sense in not universal, what may be common to one is not common to another in another culture. It does not make one smart and one dumb, it doesn't make one fit to have children and another not. America, along with other English speaking countries lead the way in over protectiveness, to our great demise. I for one will not go along with it, I will not live ruled by the fear of the incredibly unlikely! In most other cultures including most of Europe you will see young children riding trains by themselves, walking home alone, at very young ages, usually 5 and up. It is nothing to have a 5 year old go into the store alone to buy milk and bread without mom!

 

[Colleen27]

At the very least you seem to be unaware of the fact of how many neglected and abused children there are in the U.S. Or that because you don't personally know a child who has been abused/victimized/traumitized that it doesnt' happen EVERY SINGLE DAY in this country. Our foster care system is OVER FLOWING with thousands and thousands of children because they had terrible neglectful parents - those kids are now praying, begging for a parent. I bet they would be more than happy to have one of those parents that you people ignorantly classify as helicopter parents.. Every single day children are hospitalized or die because their parents were neglectful in some capcity, whether it be malicious or not. Defending ignorant people who make ignorant choices that affect the well being of their children is inexcusable. Period.

I'm pretty sure every single one of them would be thrilled to have parents whose worst "neglect" is 10 minutes of waiting in the car while Mom shops too. It is diminishing to true neglect to label every parenting decision you don't agree with as "neglect", and detracts from the ability to identify and address true cases of neglect. When a CPS worker is busy following up on 100 calls from well meaning busybodies over little Johnny locked in the car while Mom gets milk and other such nonsense, the higher the chances that little Bobby who is left home alone for hours on end while his mom works or little Susie who has to take care of herself while her dad is passed out drunk will fall through the cracks.

 

[kt_mom]

Regarding the part in bold, that is your opinion and you are certainly entitled to it, but ultimately that's all it is. Adding the fact that this opinion is coming from someone who admits to regularly leaving a child alone in an unattended vehicle, and it's clear that this opinion should be taken with 100 pounds of salt and is anything but rational.

No, that's not just my opinion its a fact. The foster care system is not full of kids because mom left them in the car to run into the store. God help us all if that was true. Half the time they have a hard time taking kids away from parents who put them in actual dangerous situations like taking them along on a drug run or leaving them basically alone for hours while they sit in a drunken stupor.

What's irrational is refusing to see that this situation is not as black and white as you want to view it.

 

[Wadecool]

A woman from Europe was here in the States with her baby. She went to a coffee house and parked her stroller outside the door with her sleeping baby and went in to get some coffee. A busybody (like coolwade) called in cops instead of stepping into the coffeeshop to ask who's baby this was. The cops came and questioned her on allegations of child neglect and abandonment. She was shocked. In her country this is a normal custom, no one brings strollers inside, everyone leaves babies in strollers outside coffee shops, boutiques, cafes, etc. She is freed and leaves the country immediately going home to tell everyone she knows about how American's have no common sense. Of course she hadn't neglected or abandoned her baby she was right in the shop, only a few feet away.

This little story tells us all we ever really need to know about your stance on the subject and you qualifications to voice an opinion on the matter. Really? It's ok to leave a baby in a stroller outside a coffee shop while the parent strolls in to grab a latte?

BTW, the name is Wadecool. If your going to open fire on me, you might as well learn to spell it correctly.

 

[kt_mom]

This is going to end up locked if you guys keep up the nasty insults back and forth. Either ignore each other, block each other or walk away. But lets play nice guys, its getting too nasty. We can disagree without being so nasty.

 

[nchulka]

This really shouldn't be an issue as a child who is tall enough to ride and doesn't want to would also be old enough to wait by themselves while the parents and other children ride. Obviously you wouldn't leave a baby or toddler alone but a 6 or 7 year old who doesn't want to ride can just go out the chicken exit and wait the couple of minutes while the rest of their family rides. My son has been doing this since he was 3, he's always right there at the exit when we get off. My daughter on the other hand isn't afraid of anything
http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?p=37620515#post37620515

Just wanted to say this is taken out of context. I clearly said that this was at Six Flags NOT Disneyworld. At Six Flags I could easily see the platform where my son would stand next to the ride attendant the entire time. If you really read all my threads the way you say you do you would know that our first Disney trip was for my son's 7th Birthday.

As for the rest, yep that's me I spank, when my kids misbehave (at least I did when they were younger, now they behave!), I have always had a set schedule at my house, I do encourage my kids to do things on their own. I am not a homophobe. I do believe homosexuality is a sin along with adultry AND fornication! I guess the problem is I was born about 150 years too late, I would have fit right in the 1800's. I have no desire to be part of the current culture, it's really sad and scary! Here's another one to add to your list of how weird I am, I don't believe in smoking or drinking either, guess you better call the authorities!

Guess what the final result is: I have very good kids who get great grades, never get in trouble, are respectful and a lot of fun and who come in to snuggle with me every morning before they get up and get ready for school on their own!

 

[kt_mom]

I didn't realize teaching your kids to get up and get themselves ready in the morning was bad parenting. I'm worse than I thought I was. DD has an alarm clock and she gets herself up, and ready to go each morning. She is expected to be ready when its time to go and she always is. She also fixes her own breakfast and takes the dog out in the mornings.

 

[ccgirl]

I didn't realize teaching your kids to get up and get themselves ready in the morning was bad parenting. I'm worse than I thought I was. DD has an alarm clock and she gets herself up, and ready to go each morning. She is expected to be ready when its time to go and she always is. She also fixes her own breakfast and takes the dog out in the mornings.

There you go, just proves it...you are lazy. According to others anyway. Sorry, our job as parents is to raise children to be productive members of society. I don't do anything for my children they can do for themselves. Not because I am lazy but because I want my children to grow up to be independent. I think bringing up someone's posts on other issues out of context is pretty silly. It is obvious you don't agree with her parenting techniques. Guess what....doesn't make either of you wrong. Only different. But some are too narrow minded to get that. IT really amazes me on the Dis that there are so many people who think they are so much better than others and have a right to judge others.

Back to the OP. The 5 year old was left in the car for 15 minutes. The police had already approached and spoken to the child but, for some reason, the OP felt it was necessary to hang out with the police officer to give the mom a piece of her mind. Children are very different but people fail to see that. There are 5 year olds that are quite capable of sitting quietly in a car for 15 minutes. There are some who are not. As a parent, it is up to us to know our children well enough to determine that. No need to talk down to the parents who think differently than you. Does not make them "pathetic".

 

[Alesia]

This thread has been really useful to me! We have been teaching our daughter about logical fallacies and this thread had been an invaluable resource. Thank you

 

[Nancyg56]

Just wanted to say this is taken out of context. I clearly said that this was at Six Flags NOT Disneyworld. At Six Flags I could easily see the platform where my son would stand next to the ride attendant the entire time. If you really read all my threads the way you say you do you would know that our first Disney trip was for my son's 7th Birthday.

As for the rest, yep that's me I spank, when my kids misbehave (at least I did when they were younger, now they behave!), I have always had a set schedule at my house, I do encourage my kids to do things on their own. I am not a homophobe. I do believe homosexuality is a sin along with adultry AND fornication! I guess the problem is I was born about 150 years too late, I would have fit right in the 1800's. I have no desire to be part of the current culture, it's really sad and scary! Here's another one to add to your list of how weird I am, I don't believe in smoking or drinking either, guess you better call the authorities!

Guess what the final result is: I have very good kids who get great grades, never get in trouble, are respectful and a lot of fun and who come in to snuggle with me every morning before they get up and get ready for school on their own!

You can do what you want as a parent. I admit that I am baffled that a mother would have children as young as your children are getting themselves up and ready for school by themselves. My DGD is 10 and while she gets herself ready for school, packs her lunch herself and is pretty self sufficient I would be very disappointed in my DD if she was so self absorbed that she slept while all this was going on. I also find spanking toddlers appalling but I don't know, if this works for you then I guess it is fine but you certainly are 150 years too late IMO.

I was not a perfect parent, I am the first to admit that but I have to say that I would never advocate the things you find acceptable in child-rearing. You get to do this though. If i was walking by your car and a 5 YO was left alone for a bit i would call the Police to come and check on them. I would then leave and let you ramble about our overprotective state the country has fallen into. If I saw your little boy unattended in a water park i would contact the security folks and let them care for him. If the park policy was that 5 YO kids are perfectly fine then you are all set. If not, you can explain why they are wrong to expect parents to remain with little children.

As I stated early on in this thread, I would never berate a parent, that is not my job. I would never assume that little children are safe under any of the conditions that you say you leave yours and while I do not think I can tell you how to care for your children if you are not there and I see something disturbing I would report that to the authorities. Let them and you determine what is safe and what is not.

 

[kt_mom]

There you go, just proves it...you are lazy. According to others anyway. Sorry, our job as parents is to raise children to be productive members of society. I don't do anything for my children they can do for themselves. Not because I am lazy but because I want my children to grow up to be independent. I think bringing up someone's posts on other issues out of context is pretty silly. It is obvious you don't agree with her parenting techniques. Guess what....doesn't make either of you wrong. Only different. But some are too narrow minded to get that.

Next thing you know, they'll be telling us they will call the cops on us for allowing our children to be awake in the house before anyone else, or that foster homes are full of kids who's parents made them toast their own poptarts in the morning.

 

[LaurenLC]

I think the continuation of this thread is pointless. It has trailed well off the initial topic, and even when we do manage to keep it on topic it's just a back and forth 'argument'. Some people feel one way, while others feel another and I don't think there is going to be any change in anyone's opinions regardless of how hard the other 'party' may try. I feel that I am right, but I'm not going to continue to be part of a 'discussion' that is going nowhere. I also truly feel that MOST people (this isn't directed at anyone here, just society in general) are doing what they think is best for their children. I don't have to agree with it, and I have a right to notify the authorities if I think I need to, but it is up to them (the authorities) to decide how to handle it. Good luck to all of you in raising happy, healthy children.

 

[ccgirl]

Next thing you know, they'll be telling us they will call the cops on us for allowing our children to be awake in the house before anyone else, or that foster homes are full of kids who's parents made them toast their own poptarts in the morning.

I believe I stated earlier on in the thread that a neighbor called the police on my DD8 who was riding her bike alone in our very safe neighborhood. SHe thought it was too dangerous and I was being neglectful. This is the same neighbor who sits her not in shape children in front of the tv all day playing video games because it is a dangerous world. The police office did come, and praised my DD for getting exercise and gave her a free ice cream coupon for wearing her helmet.

 

[kt_mom]

I believe I stated earlier on in the thread that a neighbor called the police on my DD8 who was riding her bike alone in our very safe neighborhood. SHe thought it was too dangerous and I was being neglectful. This is the same neighbor who sits her not in shape children in front of the tv all day playing video games because it is a dangerous world. The police office did come, and praised my DD for getting exercise and gave her a free ice cream coupon for wearing her helmet.

That's right, you did. Thankfully I don't have any of those neighbors. DD walks down the street alone to her friends house all the time.

 

[kt_mom]

WOW!!!! You gotta be kidding me!! Smacking a 16 month old (That is one year and 4 months old for you mathmatically challenged people reading this), locking kids in their rooms until they are 4 in the morning because YOU stay up late at night because your as you say, "night people". Shaping your child's mind to be homophobic, being too lazy to get up and feed your kids and help them get ready for school, giving them money to take it back from them to prove a useless point??? What the heck kinda person are you? Sounds like you could be a drug addict or one of those people in a cult or something. Does your husband have several other wives too? You have no clue, should be put in jail and abused like you do to them. The things your doing to your kids are physical and mental abuse where I come from. The saddest part is your proud of it and come here to glorify yourself by posting it to people at a Disney forum. In reality your just exposing yourself as a fraud of a parent, and aweful human being.

I just love how the self appointed defenders of do what you want parenting keep changing the OP's original scenario and post to a zillion other things, when it is about a five year old being left alone for 30 minutes (not 15) in a running car while they went to shop. Is there no common sense here, ding ding!! Get back on point and defend that! You can't that is why you keep changing the subject, because doing that is defenseless and even against the law in some states. Bottom line is don't be a moron and put your child potentially in danger needlessly, they are the most important thing in your life. Sady it appears that they are a nusance to others like Nchulka that PrincessTiffany quoted above.....Why not just give them up for adoption if your gonna abuse them like that.........Smacking a one year old, really! Why I aught to.....What was it Ralph Cramdon use to say on tv to his wife Alice back in the 50's, BANG, ZOOM TO THE MOON!!!!!!

So its okay for those opposed to take it as off topic and say its never okay but no one else can discuss that point? We must stick to the age and situation in question? We are not off topic it has just been expanded through the course of conversation.

You and a few others have been outright nasty to other posters and should be reported. Its one thing to disagree, its another to call names. And you have done it repeatedly.

I have my opinions about you based on your posts on this thread but have chosen to refrain from calling you out on them personally. Please have that respect for the others on this thread.

I don't agree with all of the choices of the poster you are insulting above, but I don't see anything abusive about them either, just different. I may or may not agree with all of them personally, but comparing them to abuse and saying she should be arrested is insulting to children that actually have abusive parents. I'm sure many of those children would much rather have to get themselves up and get dressed in the morning than be beaten or have cigarettes put out on them. Since when did teaching our children some self discipline become abuse?