How Can Parents Be So Clueless?

[ccgirl]

Everyone has their own opinion, I have stated mine. But I heard this on the radio this morning, and I thought of this thread and all the parents who seem to think that this couldn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bellevue-w...g-mom-leaves-car-unattended/story?id=14896605

This child was 2, but 2 or 5, they are still too small to be left alone.

Very different than leaving your 5 year old child in a locked car while you ran in for milk. This brilliant mom left her 2 year old in an unlocked car in a busy road when she ran out of gas for an hour while she and her 4 year old walked to get gas.

 

[kt_mom]

Everyone has their own opinion, I have stated mine. But I heard this on the radio this morning, and I thought of this thread and all the parents who seem to think that this couldn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bellevue-w...g-mom-leaves-car-unattended/story?id=14896605

This child was 2, but 2 or 5, they are still too small to be left alone.

I think this situation is totally different than what we are talking about here and probably there is more to this story.

 

[kt_mom]

KT, I don't think you fully understand how our criminal justice works in conjunction with the laws currently in place. Every state has some type of child endangerment law that can be interpreted by law enforcement and the judicial system on a case by case basis. I recognize that you either don't believe or understand that, but it doesn't make it any less true. A citizen, such as myself, sees your child alone in an unattended vehicle and calls the authorities. Police officers then show up and decide whether to pursue further action. After that, it would be up to a prosecuting attorney and then a judge. Wanna know who doesn't have a say in the whole process? The parent who left the child alone in the first place.

Of course, a parent who has spent a considerable amount of time endlessly justifying leaving a child alone in a vehicle is going to think someone else calling the authorities for said action is absurd and a waste of time. But, you'll have to excuse me for taking that particular parents opinion with a large grain of salt.

Pursue what action though Wade? That's what you don't seem to understand I don't think. In my situation, in my state, there would be nothing to pursue.

I never said it was always absurd or a waste of time. But yea, if the parent has already left with the child, I think it goes beyond worrying about the welfare of the child and into some kind of grudge or something I don't know. If the kid is 10 years old, then yes, I think its absurd. Unless there is obvious physical danger such as no a/c and its hot out or something. But you refuse to admit that the circumstances do matter. That age makes a difference. That all kinds of things make a difference. Just on and on with the blanket statements and condemnations.

 

[kt_mom]

one last comment! we have are kids hands for such short time why let it go even for a quick trip for milk.........................18 yrs from now you will have all the time u want to shop alone!

By 18, my kids better be going to the store for me.

 

[ccgirl]

By 18, my kids better be going to the store for me.

Heck...I'm making them do that as soon as they get their license.

 

[Wadecool]

Pursue what action though Wade? That's what you don't seem to understand I don't think. In my situation, in my state, there would be nothing to pursue.

I never said it was always absurd or a waste of time. But yea, if the parent has already left with the child, I think it goes beyond worrying about the welfare of the child and into some kind of grudge or something I don't know. If the kid is 10 years old, then yes, I think its absurd. Unless there is obvious physical danger such as no a/c and its hot out or something. But you refuse to admit that the circumstances do matter. That age makes a difference. That all kinds of things make a difference. Just on and on with the blanket statements and condemnations.

In your state, KT, you have some type of child endangerment laws in place. You really do. Are you refusing to acknowledge the existence of those laws until I copy & paste them here for your viewing pleasure? If a citizen decides to alert the authorities because they see your child left alone in you unattended vehicle, an officer can decide to cite you for child endangerment. He could also alert CPS in addition to or instead of citing you for child endangerment. Again, those decisions will be up to his discretion, not yours. Just because you personally don't see anything wrong with doesn't have an effect on what happens after officers arrive on scene. You refuse to admit that once law enforcement gets involved, you don't get to decide what happens next. Just on and on with the endless justifications...

 

[Colleen27]

Everyone has their own opinion, I have stated mine. But I heard this on the radio this morning, and I thought of this thread and all the parents who seem to think that this couldn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bellevue-w...g-mom-leaves-car-unattended/story?id=14896605

This child was 2, but 2 or 5, they are still too small to be left alone.

Three years makes a big difference in terms of development and communication skills, and the length of time and the setting aren't comparable in the least. I suspect it will come out that there is more to this story, because leaving the younger child in a car on the side of the road for an hour while taking the older sounds beyond fishy.

By 18, my kids better be going to the store for me.

No kidding. In this household that's a condition of getting their drivers' licenses... If I'm paying higher insurance premiums so they can drive, they'll be running some of those little errands for me from time to time.

 

[ccgirl]

In your state, KT, you have some type of child endangerment laws in place. You really do. Are you refusing to acknowledge the existence of those laws until I copy & paste them here for your viewing pleasure? If a citizen decides to alert the authorities because they see your child left alone in you unattended vehicle, an officer can decide to cite you for child endangerment. He could also alert CPS in addition to or instead of citing you for child endangerment. Again, those decisions will be up to his discretion, not yours. Just because you personally don't see anything wrong with doesn't have an effect on what happens after officers arrive on scene. You refuse to admit that once law enforcement gets involved, you don't get to decide what happens next. Just on and on with the endless justifications...

Just want to add to this....A citizen absolutely can call the authorities if they witness a situation that is concerning to them. Please know that just because you call them does not mean they are going to charge anyone with anything. As I said, in my state it is not illegal to leave a child in a car unless the windows are up, it's a hot day, and the AC is not on. To be correct, neither you nor KT decide what happens when the authorities show up. Staying there, as the OP did, and letting the mom hear it is not really appropriate. IMHO, they were obstructing justice at that point, or at the very least adding fuel to the fire.

 

[kt_mom]

In your state, KT, you have some type of child endangerment laws in place. You really do. Are you refusing to acknowledge the existence of those laws until I copy & paste them here for your viewing pleasure? If a citizen decides to alert the authorities because they see your child left alone in you unattended vehicle, an officer can decide to cite you for child endangerment. He could also alert CPS in addition to or instead of citing you for child endangerment. Again, those decisions will be up to his discretion, not yours. Just because you personally don't see anything wrong with doesn't have an effect on what happens after officers arrive on scene. You refuse to admit that once law enforcement gets involved, you don't get to decide what happens next. Just on and on with the endless justifications...

I'm sorry, I think you are just ignoring what I'm saying. I'm not going to keep going round and round with you repeating the same thing over and over.

 

[Wadecool]

I'm not going to keep going round and round with you repeating the same thing over and over.

You don't seem to be understanding how laws are applied in our judicial system, including your state. I have tried explaining that to you but you appear unable or unwilling to figure it out. If you leave your child alone in an unattended vehicle, someone is could possibly call the authorities and they are very likely to take the situation much more seriously than you do. If that happens, I'm sure the responding officers can make another attempt at explaining things to you.

 

[wen8jr]

There are situations where I, as an adult, don't even feel safe sitting alone in a car. A lot factors into it...it depends on what time of the day it is, where you are at, etc. Either way a child at that age should not be left alone in a car out of your sight anywhere.

Being at home, in your yard, behind locked doors, etc. and being in a car in a public parking lot with strangers roaming everywhere are two very different things. People seem to twist things on here a lot to prove a point, but it does not even compare.

I really don't think a lot of parents leave their kids unattended (thank goodness!)...if they did child abduction rates, injuries, etc. would probably be a lot higher.

In the 70's when I was a kid things were different than today. Neighbors watched out for neighbors, etc. Now there are more cars on the streets...just more people in general... which equals more evil intentions as well as more accidents.

 

[KevGuy]

I got this from a child safety internet blog this morning to further illustrate the point that you don't leave a 5 year old child unattended in a running car for 30 minutes, can you hear the common sense bell, ding ding!!!


New Laws About Leaving Children Unattended in Cars....

As of now twelve states have laws that specifically prohibit parents or guardians from leaving children alone in cars. Some of the states make it a traffic violation that includes a ticket or fine and other states make the offense a misdemeanor with a possible prison sentence. All states have laws that allow authorities to charge parents with child neglect and endangerment if a child dies because he/she was left unattended in a car.

In Florida, the child-in-car law was just recently amended to make it a second-degree misdemeanor to leave a child under the age of 6 alone in a vehicle for more than fifteen minutes or at all if the car is still running. If a parent or guardian is prosecuted they could face up to 60 days in jail and a fine of $500.


An advocacy group called Kids and Cars had been trying to toughen legislation on this issue.


"We're trying to get people to realize it is just as dangerous to leave a child alone in a vehicle as it is to leave him near a body of water," said Kids and Cars founder and president Janette Fennell. "Just in seconds, something can happen."

Fennel said that there are around 30 to 40 cases of hyperthermia deaths, which is death from unusually high body temperatures, of children left in vehicles every year. These rates have been increasing since the 1990s. Many children die from strangulation by power windows or by crashes caused by knocking the car into gear. Abduction is always a danger of leaving a child alone.

Two South Carolina toddlers were found dead after they overheated and died in their mother's car on July 30. This is just one tragic example of why harsher consequences need to be inflicted on parents or guardians who leave their children in danger in a car by themselves.

 

[KevGuy]

Here is a law from Texas, one of the 12 states that have laws. I'm actually dumbfounded that more state don't have them. I know I will urge my lawmakers to act on this myself.

Leaving a child in a vehicle is punishable under the Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10 LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:

1.younger than seven years of age; and

2.not attended by an individual in the vehicle
who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. If the child is injured, the charge is then elevated to child endangerment, which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

Leaving a child unattended in a car is also a form of neglectful supervision.

 

[alice99]

By doing what you did, you are only making it harder on the officer to handle the situation. Once you gave your statement to the officer you should have left. NOTHING good comes out of "yelling your opinions at someone" besides looking foolish. Your advice wasn't needed and the police were already there. Next time, just leave.

 

[ccgirl]

I got this from a child safety internet blog this morning to further illustrate the point that you don't leave a 5 year old child unattended in a running car for 30 minutes, can you hear the common sense bell, ding ding!!!


New Laws About Leaving Children Unattended in Cars....

As of now twelve states have laws that specifically prohibit parents or guardians from leaving children alone in cars. Some of the states make it a traffic violation that includes a ticket or fine and other states make the offense a misdemeanor with a possible prison sentence. All states have laws that allow authorities to charge parents with child neglect and endangerment if a child dies because he/she was left unattended in a car.In Florida, the child-in-car law was just recently amended to make it a second-degree misdemeanor to leave a child under the age of 6 alone in a vehicle for more than fifteen minutes or at all if the car is still running. If a parent or guardian is prosecuted they could face up to 60 days in jail and a fine of $500.


An advocacy group called Kids and Cars had been trying to toughen legislation on this issue.


"We're trying to get people to realize it is just as dangerous to leave a child alone in a vehicle as it is to leave him near a body of water," said Kids and Cars founder and president Janette Fennell. "Just in seconds, something can happen."

Fennel said that there are around 30 to 40 cases of hyperthermia deaths, which is death from unusually high body temperatures, of children left in vehicles every year. These rates have been increasing since the 1990s. Many children die from strangulation by power windows or by crashes caused by knocking the car into gear. Abduction is always a danger of leaving a child alone.

Two South Carolina toddlers were found dead after they overheated and died in their mother's car on July 30. This is just one tragic example of why harsher consequences need to be inflicted on parents or guardians who leave their children in danger in a car by themselves.

We choose to bold different things. If 12 have laws that means there are 38 states that don't (hope I did that math right). While they all have child endangerment laws those apply when the child is left in extreme cold or extreme heat. Again, a person has every right to call the authorities. Personally, I would hang around for 10 minutes or so before I went back in to the store to notify a manager. Personally, I would not want to take up the resources of the police for something like a child left alone in a car. But, that's just me. I don't judge anyone else for doing anything different. Ding...ding.....that's the come down of the high horse bell.

BTW, I am not saying it is right or wrong to leave a child in a car.

 

[lan3]

We choose to bold different things. If 12 have laws that means there are 38 states that don't (hope I did that math right). While they all have child endangerment laws those apply when the child is left in extreme cold or extreme heat. Again, a person has every right to call the authorities. Personally, I would hang around for 10 minutes or so before I went back in to the store to notify a manager. Personally, I would not want to take up the resources of the police for something like a child left alone in a car. But, that's just me. I don't judge anyone else for doing anything different. Ding...ding.....that's the come down of the high horse bell.

BTW, I am not saying it is right or wrong to leave a child in a car.

Many states do not have laws specifying exact ages for kids to be alone at home or in a car because "age" is not always the most important factor. I work in NYC and many 8 year olds walk home alone. There have been times that I have called ACS if a child is alone at 8. If it is in the evening, if the child has a disability, if the child has behavior issues. Some states do not have age laws but will take ACS cases based on other relevant factors. For example, a five year old in running car may be considered more dangerous than a five year old in a non-running car or a if it is hot or cold out. There are many factors other than age and that is why many states do not use age as a guideline. However, child protective services make decisions based on factors other than age.

 

[Colleen27]

Fennel said that there are around 30 to 40 cases of hyperthermia deaths, which is death from unusually high body temperatures, of children left in vehicles every year. These rates have been increasing since the 1990s. Many children die from strangulation by power windows or by crashes caused by knocking the car into gear. Abduction is always a danger of leaving a child alone.

Read this again without your bias - he starts with his strongest point, hyperthermia, and presents numbers. However, those numbers are a deliberate half-truth because he doesn't mention that in most of those cases the child was *inadvertently* left in the car (and those are the terrible, shocking stories we read every summer... Dad isn't just to dropping Junior off at daycare and somehow forgot he was in the back seat), and still amount to a miniscule sample ("30 or 40" out of approx 22 MILLION kids under the age of 6 in the USA). He then moves on to weaker points with no numbers to back them up, but that evoke horrific images. It is a well crafted appeal to emotion but lacks substance.

And that case that your cut & paste talks about? That mother intentionally left her two children in her car ALL DAY while she worked and then "hid" their bodies in trash bags in her home. Do you really think that's on par with a typical parent not wanting to take the kids in when she pays for her gas or picks up a gallon of milk?

 

[Colleen27]

Here is a law from Texas, one of the 12 states that have laws. I'm actually dumbfounded that more state don't have them. I know I will urge my lawmakers to act on this myself.

Leaving a child in a vehicle is punishable under the Texas Penal Code, Title 5, Chapter 22, Section 10 LEAVING A CHILD IN A VEHICLE. A person commits an offense if he intentionally or knowingly leaves a child in a motor vehicle for longer than five minutes, knowing that the child is:

1.younger than seven years of age; and

2.not attended by an individual in the vehicle
who is 14 years of age or older. An offense under this section is a Class C misdemeanor. If the child is injured, the charge is then elevated to child endangerment, which is a felony. The penalties are six months to two years in jail and a fine up to $10,000.

Leaving a child unattended in a car is also a form of neglectful supervision.

That's a really silly law, but I don't expect any less from Texas (the state that still has laws prohibiting same-sex "relations" and where parents are hauled into court if they take their kids on vacation during the school year). A 13yo can babysit for hours with no parent/adult nearby but can't watch a younger sibling in the car for 10min while a parent is just yards away?

 

[kt_mom]

Read this again without your bias - he starts with his strongest point, hyperthermia, and presents numbers. However, those numbers are a deliberate half-truth because he doesn't mention that in most of those cases the child was *inadvertently* left in the car (and those are the terrible, shocking stories we read every summer... Dad isn't just to dropping Junior off at daycare and somehow forgot he was in the back seat), and still amount to a miniscule sample ("30 or 40" out of approx 22 MILLION kids under the age of 6 in the USA). He then moves on to weaker points with no numbers to back them up, but that evoke horrific images. It is a well crafted appeal to emotion but lacks substance.

And that case that your cut & paste talks about? That mother intentionally left her two children in her car ALL DAY while she worked and then "hid" their bodies in trash bags in her home. Do you really think that's on par with a typical parent not wanting to take the kids in when she pays for her gas or picks up a gallon of milk?

 

[Colleen27]

In the 70's when I was a kid things were different than today. Neighbors watched out for neighbors, etc. Now there are more cars on the streets...just more people in general... which equals more evil intentions as well as more accidents.

I don't believe that is the case. We perceive the world to be more dangerous today, in the era of the 24/7 national news network, but there's no evidence to support that perception. What was different in the 70s is that most of us never would have heard about a child abduction in Utah or a missing/found dead preschooler in Florida or any of the other cases that have become household names in modern America.