How Can Parents Be So Clueless?

[JennaGlatzer]

Child abductions by strangers are incredibly rare, apparently even by criminals!

I was abducted and raped by a stranger when I was 10. I don't live in a city.

Any parent who leaves a child unattended in a car to go shopping should be arrested.

And for those who think, "Nothing like that ever happens here," that's what EVERYONE says... and then it happens anyway. Yes, you. It could happen to you.

 

[Wadecool]

No, I've said several time that I don't leave my kids in the car at the grocery store for various reasons. I've only ever left them in the car at the convenience store. What I was saying was that my problem is with the blanket statements that lump it all together and just call everyone a bad lazy parent.

I've said multiple times that each and every situation is different and its up to the parents in that situation to decide what is acceptable for them and their children.

We have already been around the block a few times kt, but here we go again...

Grocery store, convenience store, hardware store, shoe store, toy store...

If you leave your child alone in an unattended vehicle, be prepared for the very real possibility of someone like myself (call us busybodies if you like ) calling the police and the responding officers possibly taking the situation much more seriously than you obviously do. If you leave your kids alone in a vehicle anywhere out in public, and someone calls the authorities, responding officers will ultimately decide whether those actions are acceptable or not.

 

[kt_mom]

We have already been around the block a few times kt, but here we go again...

Grocery store, convenience store, hardware store, shoe store, toy store...

If you leave your child alone in an unattended vehicle, be prepared for the very real possibility of someone like myself (call us busybodies if you like ) calling the police and the responding officers possibly taking the situation much more seriously than you obviously do. If you leave your kids alone in a vehicle anywhere out in public, and someone calls the authorities, responding officers will ultimately decide whether those actions are acceptable or not.

Wade, I have tried not to get into this with you as we have already gone round and round. I know that you are going to call the police each and every time. I've said that's your right. I've also said that in my area, where I live, its very common and I don't think the police would respond in the manner you are hoping for. Maybe its different where you live. I've also said that the state troopers and local sheriffs stop at the same convenience store I go to all the time and are often in the lot. They have seen me leave my kids in the car and I've never gotten more than a polite smile and maybe they hold the door for me if we are entering the store together.

And I don't leave my kids in the car at the grocery store. I feel like DD is old enough to, and asks every time, but I choose not to and they both come inside with me regardless if I need 1 thing or 50 things. Probably I'll actually start leaving her at home if I'm making a quick run to the store. But that's another debate all together I'm sure. But if someone else wants to leave their 8 year old in the car outside the grocery store for 20 minutes that's their choice and I would not call the cops on them. A five year old and I would probably stick around to see how long it took the parent to come outside. Now if its hot out and the car isn't on then all bets are off and I would call the police immediately.

But see, like I've said, I don't see this as a one size fits all type situation. Every child, every store every town is different. But I know that you do Wade, and I really don't feel like going round and round with you again. I don't mean to be rude, we just both know neither of us is going to have a change of heart on this one.

 

[KevGuy]

I'm so tired of hearing the old argument of the child accidentally knocking the car into gear. In most new vehicles there are a series of maneuvers that are required to get the car into gear. The chances of a 5 year old completing these by accident is extremely unlikely and just an excuse used by parents to justify an irrational fear. My DD at 5 would not have been able to depress the brake and still reach the gear shift, press in the side lever and then shift it over and down into gear at all, much less by accident.

As far as the child getting out of the car and coming inside on their own I think that's at the parents discretion. Now, I've never left my kids in the car except at the convenience store. But if I told DD to wait in the car, she would, even at the age of 5. She behaves. If she didn't, then I wouldn't leave her in the car. But at a convenience store she could easily get out the car and take the 15 steps to the door by herself. I can also see the car so she would have no need to get out. She's 8 years old now and perfectly capable of crossing a parking lot alone if need be. But I don't leave her in the car at the grocery store for different reasons that I stated previously in this thread.

Its not common sense so stop with the bells. Its a different situation for every parent. That's our whole point. There is no one size fits all for this argument. There are situations when I would call the cops too. But I would never say a blanket statement that its either right or wrong and call other parents stupid without having a full understanding of their situation. Its perfectly acceptable in my situation and actually extremely common in my area. So common in fact, that I have gotten out of my car with a police officer parked a few spots down locked the doors, said hello to the officer, he smiled back and went on his way. They stop routinely at this particular gas station. So where you are does matter. The maturity and behavior of your child makes a difference too. My son, he may never have the freedoms that DD has because I have the feeling he is going to be one to always push the limits. But I don't know yet, he's only 17 months old right now.

I'm sure many of you make choices for your children that in my mind might be careless or seem lazy, but I realize its your choice to raise your kids the way you see fit. There are lots of things out there much more dangerous than a couple minutes alone in a car. Many people just have a very irrational fear of it so they want to push that off onto other parents who don't feel that way and then call them lazy or stupid. And I have yet to hear one truly reasonable reason about the danger in this. I am not talking about 2 years old on a hot day for an hour with the a/c off.

Raise your kids any way you want and when a tragic accident happens because of your ignorance and stupidity blame yourself. Plain and simple "you don't leave a five year old alone in a car that is running". That is a blanket statement and just plain common sense, ding ding, it's the common sense bell again. It is lazy, and I dare say criminal. Why don't you go to your local police station and ask an officer what they think. I can already tell you their answer, your just inviting tragedy. Sure it may not happen that particular time but when you tempt fate like that you will lose at some point. Why ever take that chance with the most important thing in your life, your child? Your supposed to be their parent, safeguard their life, and not put them into situations like that where I come from. Nothing you can say is going to change that fact or rationalize that at all. It is plain moronic to do something like that in my opinion. What is wrong with you people that would do this? It is not irrational to be cautious in this world, do you watch the daily news on tv at all? Out of every story they run aside from sports or weather, how many are not something negative, not many I would say. Why would you want to take a chance to be that feature story of a tragic accident or worse, it makes no sense to any intelligent person with children.

You mention "our whole point" as if you represent everyone with your point of view. I would dare say that in this thread I am the 99% and you are the 1%. We should rename this thread to "Occupy Common Sense" because apparently the 1% in this thread don't have any. So let me just say again, "you don't leave a five year old alone in a running car for 30 minutes while you shop". This is a one size fits all rational for sure, your kid doesn't have to hit the gear shifter that you spent a whole paragraph trying to defend. It is just one of a myriad of things that could happen. Why not spend another paragraph trying to defend the probably most common thing that could happen, the child opens the door and leaves the vehicle? Once that happens, you can now add exponential possibilities that could occur, to the detriment of the child, while your so busy looking at cans of soup or whatever. How the heck does that make sense, please explain.

I encourage you to ask a police officer if it is ok to leave your child like that, and do please tell us what the response is. I can guarantee you that if something tragic happened from doing that in my state you will be brought up on child abandonment charges and arrested, be the highlight of the local news broadcast, and thown in jail and hopefully they would lose the key....

Lets hear some more irrational reasoning that it is ok to do this, like it is everyone's choice to do as they please with their childs life. Let me tell you some things are not, like endangering their safety which is exactly what you are doing in this situation. You wouldn't throw your five year old over a fence at the zoo and see if the lions will eat the child, maybe they won't if they're full. Why would you leave a five year old alone in a running car who can't read or write or understand much more than a cartoon, for 30 minutes. Maybe they would stay in the car, maybe they wouldn't, maybe someone steals the car with the kid in it, heck you left them the keys. Wake up and smell the coffee, their is no sensible, intelligent basis for your argument to defend that type of parenting. I pray for kids who have parents that would do that to them, that they will be ok, and not just become another news story on tv.

You want some more reasonable reasoning on this, getcha your popcorn ready I'm just getting started on people like you who would do this and think nothing of it.

 

[KevGuy]

No, I've said several time that I don't leave my kids in the car at the grocery store for various reasons. I've only ever left them in the car at the convenience store. What I was saying was that my problem is with the blanket statements that lump it all together and just call everyone a bad lazy parent.

I've said multiple times that each and every situation is different and its up to the parents in that situation to decide what is acceptable for them and their children.

But you are doing the same blanket statement type thing. Is leaving a 13 year old in the car for an hour a bad thing? Like I said, each situation is different.

Get with the program here, we are talking about a five year old not thirteen. You said previously in your area people think nothing of it, well were is your area I'd like to know so I can stay away from it and if I am there make sure to not drink the water, something is obviously wrong.

 

[kt_mom]

Raise your kids any way you want and when a tragic accident happens because of your ignorance and stupidity blame yourself. Plain and simple "you don't leave a five year old alone in a car that is running". That is a blanket statement and just plain common sense, ding ding, it's the common sense bell again. It is lazy, and I dare say criminal. Why don't you go to your local police station and ask an officer what they think. I can already tell you their answer, your just inviting tragedy. Sure it may not happen that particular time but when you tempt fate like that you will lose at some point. Why ever take that chance with the most important thing in your life, your child? Your supposed to be their parent, safeguard their life, and not put them into situations like that where I come from. Nothing you can say is going to change that fact or rationalize that at all. It is plain moronic to do something like that in my opinion. What is wrong with you people that would do this? It is not irrational to be cautious in this world, do you watch the daily news on tv at all? Out of every story they run aside from sports or weather, how many are not something negative, not many I would say. Why would you want to take a chance to be that feature story of a tragic accident or worse, it makes no sense to any intelligent person with children.

You mention "our whole point" as if you represent everyone with your point of view. I would dare say that in this thread I am the 99% and you are the 1%. We should rename this thread to "Occupy Common Sense" because apparently the 1% in this thread don't have any. So let me just say again, "you don't leave a five year old alone in a running car for 30 minutes while you shop". This is a one size fits all rational for sure, your kid doesn't have to hit the gear shifter that you spent a whole paragraph trying to defend. It is just one of a myriad of things that could happen. Why not spend another paragraph trying to defend the probably most common thing that could happen, the child opens the door and leaves the vehicle? Once that happens, you can now add exponential possibilities that could occur, to the detriment of the child, while your so busy looking at cans of soup or whatever. How the heck does that make sense, please explain.

I encourage you to ask a police officer if it is ok to leave your child like that, and do please tell us what the response is. I can guarantee you that if something tragic happened from doing that in my state you will be brought up on child abandonment charges and arrested, be the highlight of the local news broadcast, and thown in jail and hopefully they would lose the key....

Lets hear some more irrational reasoning that it is ok to do this, like it is everyone's choice to do as they please with their childs life. Let me tell you some things are not, like endangering their safety which is exactly what you are doing in this situation. You wouldn't throw your five year old over a fence at the zoo and see if the lions will eat the child, maybe they won't if they're full. Why would you leave a five year old alone in a running car who can't read or write or understand much more than a cartoon, for 30 minutes. Maybe they would stay in the car, maybe they wouldn't, maybe someone steals the car with the kid in it, heck you left them the keys. Wake up and smell the coffee, their is no sensible, intelligent basis for your argument to defend that type of parenting. I pray for kids who have parents that would do that to them, that they will be ok, and not just become another news story on tv.

You want some more reasonable reasoning on this, getcha your popcorn ready I'm just getting started on people like you who would do this and think nothing of it.

I'm not going to argue with you. You seem to want to throw out insults and I'm not going to get involved in that or your personal attacks to me.

 

[Just*the*ten*of*us]

stop with the bells.

hahahahaha^^^THIS^^^

 

[luvmyprincesses]

I have to smile about this. I was the oldest of four children. I am 56, but when I was small we stayed alone in the car while our parents shopped. Would I do that with mine now, probably not. However I have seen parents leave their children in their minivan, air conditioning on, dvd playing and doors locked while they went in a store for a few minutes.

 

[Wadecool]

Wade, I have tried not to get into this with you as we have already gone round and round. I know that you are going to call the police each and every time. I've said that's your right. I've also said that in my area, where I live, its very common and I don't think the police would respond in the manner you are hoping for. Maybe its different where you live. I've also said that the state troopers and local sheriffs stop at the same convenience store I go to all the time and are often in the lot. They have seen me leave my kids in the car and I've never gotten more than a polite smile and maybe they hold the door for me if we are entering the store together.

And I don't leave my kids in the car at the grocery store. I feel like DD is old enough to, and asks every time, but I choose not to and they both come inside with me regardless if I need 1 thing or 50 things. Probably I'll actually start leaving her at home if I'm making a quick run to the store. But that's another debate all together I'm sure. But if someone else wants to leave their 8 year old in the car outside the grocery store for 20 minutes that's their choice and I would not call the cops on them. A five year old and I would probably stick around to see how long it took the parent to come outside. Now if its hot out and the car isn't on then all bets are off and I would call the police immediately.

But see, like I've said, I don't see this as a one size fits all type situation. Every child, every store every town is different. But I know that you do Wade, and I really don't feel like going round and round with you again. I don't mean to be rude, we just both know neither of us is going to have a change of heart on this one.

And I've told you about state troopers I know who would and do absolutely take these calls very seriously, so what. If someone sees your child alone in that car and calls the police, even in your infinite wisdom, you cannot predict which officer shows up to the call, the one who takes it seriously or the one who doesn't. You have made it abundantly clear that you are willing to place your bet on it being no big deal to whoever responds. Good luck with that.

 

[tigger51276]

I did read the entire post and that woman has every right to parent the way she wants to. I would not personally leave the car running but I'm not going to say that someone who does is wrong. All parents parent differently you don't call in the authorities unless a parent is doing something that causes the child imminent danger such as a parent beating the tar out of a kid in public or an infant strapped into a carseat in a hot car for a period of time that would cause them to overheat. A 5 year old can easily get out and go in the store and have them page her mom if she was getting too hot. 5 year olds are much smarter than babies, but people in America don't seem to get that. Here we tend to think kids are totally helpless and can't take care of themselves.

I make decisions about my children that are different than others make and I would be very mad if someone took it upon themselves to call the cops because they didn't agree with my timetable of thinking as to when my kids are old enough to be alone. My daughter is 9 and son is 8, they have been free to run around the subdivision on their bikes and such since about 6. Some other parents around here won't let their 9 year olds out of their sight still. It's a matter of parental choice, if a cop showed up because my 6 year old is out getting exercise on his bike on the sidewalks of suburban America because some busybody neighbor decided that THEY didn't think a 6 year year old should be alone I would be seriously angry also. No wonder the woman yelled back at you.

Do you have a clue as to the danger that 5 year olds around the wold face everyday??? Sitting alone in a car with a dog in a busy parking lot in America is WAY down on the list. Get some perspective people!

All I can say is WOW! I am not an overprotective parent, but even i would have called the police with a 5 year old in a running car. Anything could have happened.

 

[Rylee]

I was abducted and raped by a stranger when I was 10. I don't live in a city.

Any parent who leaves a child unattended in a car to go shopping should be arrested.

And for those who think, "Nothing like that ever happens here," that's what EVERYONE says... and then it happens anyway. Yes, you. It could happen to you.

I'm sorry about what happened to you.

 

[brooklyn615]

JennaGlatzer, I am so sorry to hear of what happened to you.

My opinion on this in general is that I would not leave my kids or my dog in the car to go into a store. That's my opinion and my choice. Everyone is responsible for making choices that effect their own lives. That being said, I feel like five is a little young to leave alone in the car, even for a few minutes. My five year old, who can be very well behaved at times, will climb into the drivers seat and pretend to drive. I would be afraid that he would somehow mangage to change the gear shift or something like that. As for calling police, I'm not sure if I would call the police, I guess it would depend on the situation. I would probably wait around until the parent got back to the car. I feel like if I saw an unattended child in a car and just turned a blind eye and then found out something tragic happened, I would feel partially responsible.

Just my opinion.

 

[kt_mom]

And I've told you about state troopers I know who would and do absolutely take these calls very seriously, so what. If someone sees your child alone in that car and calls the police, even in your infinite wisdom, you cannot predict which officer shows up to the call, the one who takes it seriously or the one who doesn't. You have made it abundantly clear that you are willing to place your bet on it being no big deal to whoever responds. Good luck with that.

Yes, but Wade, I don't live in your city, or even your state for that matter. I live where I live and my state does not have a law regarding this. Its very common where I live to see this, and I've often done it while parked next to a police officer. They frequent the particular store in my neighborhood that I go to. So I'm not concerned about dealing with the police on this issue. It makes no difference to me what the troopers you know feel about this.

 

[bearloch]

one last comment! we have are kids hands for such short time why let it go even for a quick trip for milk.........................18 yrs from now you will have all the time u want to shop alone!

 

[RumpleMom]

A police officer in our city left a K-9 officer in the police cruiser with the air conditioning running. The car malfunctioned turning off the air conditioning and the K-9 officer died.

The K-9 officer was buried with full appropriate honors.

 

[Wadecool]

Yes, but Wade, I don't live in your city, or even your state for that matter. I live where I live and my state does not have a law regarding this. Its very common where I live to see this, and I've often done it while parked next to a police officer. They frequent the particular store in my neighborhood that I go to. So I'm not concerned about dealing with the police on this issue. It makes no difference to me what the troopers you know feel about this.

Every state has some form of child endangerment laws, even yours. It would be up to responding officers, and the prosecuting attorney whether to apply those laws to your case, but again, that decision would be up to them, not you. You still do not know how an officer who is responding to a call about a child left alone in a car will actually handle that situation. In many cases, officers are required to contact CPS on situations involving children. There is one surefire way to avoid the possibility of getting into trouble: don't leave your kids alone in an unattended vehicle.

 

[kt_mom]

Every state has some form of child endangerment laws, even yours. It would be up to responding officers, and the prosecuting attorney whether to apply those laws to your case, but again, that decision would be up to them, not you. You still do not know how an officer who is responding to a call about a child left alone in a car will actually handle that situation. In many cases, officers are required to contact CPS on situations involving children. There is one surefire way to avoid the possibility of getting into trouble: don't leave your kids alone in an unattended vehicle.

Wade, I think you have this idea that the police officers have more power then they actually do and can create laws when and where they want to. And maybe that's how it works in your area, but not here. We do have child endangerment laws that apply if a child is endangered. Not if a child is in a situation that a passerby or even police officer disagrees with personally. Thankfully we have laws that protect citizens from police officers pursuing their own personal interests. So again, I don't care what the officers you know think.

My DD is 8 years old, and perfectly capable of sitting in a car for 5 minutes outside a convenience store on cool day with the doors locked. I am not afraid that my car will somehow spontaneously catch on fire, I am not afraid that the boogey man will come and steal them out of my locked car 20 feet from me, that I can see perfectly, in broad daylight in a parking lot often frequented by police officers. I'm not afraid that she will be afraid, because I know that she's not. I'm not afraid of her getting out of the car becuase she won't unless she needs to, and if she needs to, she's perfectly capable of walking 20 feet into the store where I can see her the whole time. I'm not afraid that she will knock the car into gear "accidentally" because besides the fact that it just isn't possible in my car she knows not to touch the gears or get into the drivers seat, and she won't. So its just a non issue. I have never left her in the car at the grocery store. But if I really wanted to, she would be perfectly capable of beign okay for 10 or 15 minutes alone.

Every situation is different and there are some that are obviously wrong and extremely dangerous to kids. But there are many times when it is truly at the discretion of the parent. And which one of you, not you Wade personally, just the you that say you will always call the police no matter, get to decide when its okay and when it isn't. I mean obviously you aren't going to call the police on a 16 year old sitting in a car alone. But what about 14 or 12? Kids around here start babysitting at 12, surely they are old enough to sit in a car alone for a few minutes.

I just can't stand the blanket statements of its always wrong. Its not always wrong. Each and every one of you has qualifications of when you think its wrong. You just think that your personal qualifications should be mine too, and they aren't. But you most definitely have your own set of qualifications. I'm not trying to tell anyone that they should leave their own kids in the car, ever, if they don't want to. I do wish that those who disagree with doing it would use a little discretion when trying to push their beliefs off on other parents though.

The idea of calling the police no matter what, even if the child has gone safely on their way, is absurd in my opinion and a waste of tax payer dollars for the officer that gets stuck having to go the scene only to find out that there is no one there anymore and no one is in danger. Personally the person that called, and stuck around to wait after the people had safely left should be fined for not calling back and saying it was no longer an issue.

 

[mandynee22]

one last comment! we have are kids hands for such short time why let it go even for a quick trip for milk.........................18 yrs from now you will have all the time u want to shop alone!

I think that your kid probably won't be ready for anything remotely close to life if you don't plan on leaving them alone for 18 years. How do they learn to be independent?

 

[Stitch76]

Everyone has their own opinion, I have stated mine. But I heard this on the radio this morning, and I thought of this thread and all the parents who seem to think that this couldn't happen.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/bellevue-w...g-mom-leaves-car-unattended/story?id=14896605

This child was 2, but 2 or 5, they are still too small to be left alone.

 

[Wadecool]

Wade, I think you have this idea that the police officers have more power then they actually do and can create laws when and where they want to. And maybe that's how it works in your area, but not here. We do have child endangerment laws that apply if a child is endangered. Not if a child is in a situation that a passerby or even police officer disagrees with personally. Thankfully we have laws that protect citizens from police officers pursuing their own personal interests. So again, I don't care what the officers you know think.

The idea of calling the police no matter what, even if the child has gone safely on their way, is absurd in my opinion and a waste of tax payer dollars for the officer that gets stuck having to go the scene only to find out that there is no one there anymore and no one is in danger. Personally the person that called, and stuck around to wait after the people had safely left should be fined for not calling back and saying it was no longer an issue.

KT, I don't think you fully understand how our criminal justice works in conjunction with the laws currently in place. Every state has some type of child endangerment law that can be interpreted by law enforcement and the judicial system on a case by case basis. I recognize that you either don't believe or understand that, but it doesn't make it any less true. A citizen, such as myself, sees your child alone in an unattended vehicle and calls the authorities. Police officers then show up and decide whether to pursue further action. After that, it would be up to a prosecuting attorney and then a judge. Wanna know who doesn't have a say in the whole process? The parent who left the child alone in the first place.

Of course, a parent who has spent a considerable amount of time endlessly justifying leaving a child alone in a vehicle is going to think someone else calling the authorities for said action is absurd and a waste of time. But, you'll have to excuse me for taking that particular parents opinion with a large grain of salt.