New bib pick up procedures for rundisney races

[longhorns2]

This is another of my complaints. Communication. If they just added something about sane day pick ups in RARE cases ( I'm sure they don't want to encourage people to rely on this ) then drama won't happen for those that truly do need it.

rD can do better is all I'm sayin.

 

[Nole95]

I have no issue with a bib transfer system as long as it is something that RunDisney controls. Meaning that no bibs should be "scalped" or available for transfer on the open market. RD could probably make some money off this.

Original person wants to transfer bib.
Person who is getting that bib pays the normal race fee.
Original person gets docked a $50 transfer fee and the rest of their money refunded.

I think something like this combined with only the person on the bib being able to pickup would work. Only people serious about transferring would do so, and only people who were quite sure they were really going to run the race would register in the first place.

 

[DVCFan1994]

I have no issue with a bib transfer system as long as it is something that RunDisney controls. Meaning that no bibs should be "scalped" or available for transfer on the open market. RD could probably make some money off this.

Original person wants to transfer bib.
Person who is getting that bib pays the normal race fee.
Original person gets docked a $50 transfer fee and the rest of their money refunded.

I think something like this combined with only the person on the bib being able to pickup would work. Only people serious about transferring would do so, and only people who were quite sure they were really going to run the race would register in the first place.

This is how deferrals work currently as I understand it from my sister. She is due to have a baby and had to defer PHM this past February. So, she had to register for next years, and pay that fee. Only then did they refund the 2014, minus a deferral fee. I wouldn't think it would be that hard to alter this already functioning system to accommodate transfers. Then again this is Disney IT and Active IT we are working with. Both notoriously unreliable.

 

[Castle2Castle]

. . .it probably boils down to three things... Runner safety, event security, and insurance. People who race under other's bibs have the incorrect safety information attached to their bib. If they're injured or incapacitated, Disney doesn't begin to know who to notify. And tied to that, if anybody can pick up bibs with easily forged/duplicated information, the overall safety to other runners is diminished. That impacts event security, and makes it easier to camouflage the identity of people who'd be intent on causing issues.

And, you know, it could be the event's insurance provider that may require it. We had local races here, just little ones, and their insurance providers all suggested or required this change.

The safety and security rationale -- as I've received from Competitor Group/RnR -- doesn't make much sense. Safety information provided on the bib in every race I've run is generally written on the bib (if at all) after pickup by the runner. With respect to security, there don't appear to be any widespread incidents of runners with resold bibs causing issues; nevermind that anyone intent on causing issues beforehand could purchase their own bib directly or repurchase a bib after pickup.

(Just addressing safety and security concerns in general; only quoted the above poster as it was the most recent one on my screen)

Separate concerns about the reselling of bibs and the pace of race sales I think are overstated -- perhaps a "phantom menace" to borrow from the Disney/Lucas brand. There just doesn't seem to be that much room for a black market in runDisney race bibs, nor does there seem to be any indication that any meaningful percentage of bibs are being purchased by people meaning to resell them for profit. Throughout these message boards and others, I see people asking about bibs but the consensus seems to be that if they're able to pick up a bib that it's been late in the game from a runner who was unable to run and didn't want to defer. Even then, the seller would have had to provide the appropriate waiver form and photo identification to the purchaser for it to work -- something more inconvenient than traditional scalping.

Perhaps there is an insurance requirement, although I'd wonder about that since it doesn't completely close the door on unregistered runners. Whatever their rationale, it seems to me to be a step backward on customer service. It's good that they'll offer race day pickup in light of this change, but it still potentially increases the stress on runners already having to get up extremely early and wait to receive their bibs on race day.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

The safety and security rationale -- as I've received from Competitor Group/RnR -- doesn't make much sense. Safety information provided on the bib in every race I've run is generally written on the bib (if at all) after pickup by the runner. With respect to security, there don't appear to be any widespread incidents of runners with resold bibs causing issues; nevermind that anyone intent on causing issues beforehand could purchase their own bib directly or repurchase a bib after pickup.

(Just addressing safety and security concerns in general; only quoted the above poster as it was the most recent one on my screen)

Separate concerns about the reselling of bibs and the pace of race sales I think are overstated -- perhaps a "phantom menace" to borrow from the Disney/Lucas brand. There just doesn't seem to be that much room for a black market in runDisney race bibs, nor does there seem to be any indication that any meaningful percentage of bibs are being purchased by people meaning to resell them for profit. Throughout these message boards and others, I see people asking about bibs but the consensus seems to be that if they're able to pick up a bib that it's been late in the game from a runner who was unable to run and didn't want to defer. Even then, the seller would have had to provide the appropriate waiver form and photo identification to the purchaser for it to work -- something more inconvenient than traditional scalping.

Perhaps there is an insurance requirement, although I'd wonder about that since it doesn't completely close the door on unregistered runners. Whatever their rationale, it seems to me to be a step backward on customer service. It's good that they'll offer race day pickup in light of this change, but it still potentially increases the stress on runners already having to get up extremely early and wait to receive their bibs on race day.

I can think of at least two incidents in the past six months where someone running under the wrong bib has caused runDisney a security issue.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I can think of at least two incidents in the past six months where someone running under the wrong bib has caused runDisney a security issue.

What were they? And how was it really an issue of running under a wrong bib?

If somebody is willing to pay money for a bib to cause an issue, they can just pay runDisney directly and still cause an issue. This policy would do nothing to curb that. For that matter, they could not pay for a bib at all, and just show up to the race as security along road races isn't exactly Fort Knox. I don't see this policy making any meaningful contribution to runner safety or security.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

What were they? And how was it really an issue of running under a wrong bib?

If somebody is willing to pay money for a bib to cause an issue, they can just pay runDisney directly and still cause an issue. This policy would do nothing to curb that. For that matter, they could not pay for a bib at all, and just show up to the race as security along road races isn't exactly Fort Knox. I don't see this policy making any meaningful contribution to runner safety or security.

One was an issue with an age group award, where someone of the other gender "won" the bib's age group. One was a woman wearing a purchased bib who had an asthma attack, and who was lucky that someone who she knew spotted her and was able to tell the medical staff what her friend had.

 

[ironz]

One was an issue with an age group award, where someone of the other gender "won" the bib's age group. One was a woman wearing a purchased bib who had an asthma attack, and who was lucky that someone who she knew spotted her and was able to tell the medical staff what her friend had.

ya know...it could well be an insurance issue. Triathlon has had that procedure in place for years. You have to pick up your packet, with your ID, and be a member of USAT.

I agree that it could help with the reselling issue. I don't think we hear about it here so much, because some of us agree that you signed up under a rule of "nontransferable" and posters who talk about scalping bibs have been frowned upon.

I guess, as a triathlete, who is used to that rule, and as someone who sees packet pickup/expo hours and plans my travel based on those (and not relying on others to do my pre-race tasks), it doesn't bug me. I do agree that they should roll it out with each race event as the registration opens and not apply it to races that people already registered for, but again...if it's an insurance issue, they may not have that luxury.

 

[GeorgeAndDiana]

I also agree that a sanctioned, official transfer system would solve a lot of problems. Sure, there are probably a number of unscrupulous "bib scalpers" taking advantage of the system, but many simply didn't want to lose $175 (or a lot more) simply because they were injured, laid off, had an emergency, etc. A transfer system (where a reasonable fee charged for the small amount of data entry work that would result) would really help that along.

For a race where a good percentage of the participants need to travel to participate, the proxy bib pickup was a very relied upon system. I suppose a "day of" system would work, although, I've never done this - is it at like 2AM?

 

[VAfamily1998]

What if they had a way where for a fee, you could have the race packet delivered to your Disney resort and given to you upon check in. You need to show ID to check in. The fee could offset whatever it would cost them to hire an employee(s) to bring packets to the various Disney resorts.

 

[joan4mickey]

What if they had a way where for a fee, you could have the race packet delivered to your Disney resort and given to you upon check in. You need to show ID to check in. The fee could offset whatever it would cost them to hire an employee(s) to bring packets to the various Disney resorts.

Another guy and I talked about this on the bus going back to our resort from the bib pickup on the Princess Weekend. While it is a nice idea, the expo vendors would not like it. They want sales and won't get them if we don't show up...

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

What if they had a way where for a fee, you could have the race packet delivered to your Disney resort and given to you upon check in. You need to show ID to check in. The fee could offset whatever it would cost them to hire an employee(s) to bring packets to the various Disney resorts.

Not everyone has to show ID to check in, though, right? Just the person who is the head of the reservation.

 

[VAfamily1998]

Not everyone has to show ID to check in, though, right? Just the person who is the head of the reservation.

Right, but they could require that the person the packet was for show ID...So if Mary and John are going to Disney, but John is checking in on Friday and Mary isn't flying in until 8 pm Saturday night (for the early Sun. morning race) Mary would go to the front desk upon arrival, show her ID, and they would give her the packet.

 

[VAfamily1998]

Another guy and I talked about this on the bus going back to our resort from the bib pickup on the Princess Weekend. While it is a nice idea, the expo vendors would not like it. They want sales and won't get them if we don't show up...

True...I'm kind of a cheapskate so I wouldn't pay a fee to have it delivered unless there was absolutely NO WAY I could make it to the packet pick up /expo...but there probably are people who can afford to have it delivered just for the convenience...

 

[Castle2Castle]

One was an issue with an age group award, where someone of the other gender "won" the bib's age group. One was a woman wearing a purchased bib who had an asthma attack, and who was lucky that someone who she knew spotted her and was able to tell the medical staff what her friend had.

Neither of those seem like security issues.

The age group award is an awards issue, but it seems like it would be (has been) a very rare occurrence under a system of allowing others to pick up packets with waiver and copy of ID. Such a rare issue seems easy to handle by occurrence without burdening a larger group of your participants as a matter of practice.

An asthma attack could be a safety issue (for the unregistered runner), but the bib seems of little consequence. To the extent that they have medical information available, it's on the back of the bib where runners provide their own information after pickup -- John Q can have all of his pertinent info on the back of a bib with Sam T's name on the front.

The new requirement for packet pickup doesn't mean that people can't still purchase bibs and run with them; it merely shifts the burden of packet pickup to the seller and favors those runners in Florida and California who may find a need to resell their bibs, as it's easier for them than out-of-state runners to pick the packet up and deliver it to a buyer.

ya know...it could well be an insurance issue. Triathlon has had that procedure in place for years. You have to pick up your packet, with your ID, and be a member of USAT.

Insurance would be a good reason at least in that they wouldn't have had much choice in the matter. But if Triathlon has had that procedure in place for years, it seems odd that a division of Disney with fairly large races wouldn't have already had that come up before now.

I'm sure runDisney has their reasons, but outside of being required by insurance, I just don't feel like there's a compelling need for it and the largest impact seems likely to be an increase in race day stress and inconvenience for out of state runners.

 

[mking624]

I'm sure runDisney has their reasons, but outside of being required by insurance, I just don't feel like there's a compelling need for it and the largest impact seems likely to be an increase in race day stress and inconvenience for out of state runners.

I would say this kind of stress would only be initially as people adjust to the new policy. But people traveling to other states for races is nothing new, nor is a policy such as this one. NYC and Boston Marathons have both been brought up, and the Chicago Marathon is another that has this policy. Aside from locals participating, there are many people who are traveling from out of state to those races. If those marathons can go on year after year without that policy causing much of an impact, then I really don't see it impacting much of anything at Disney. For me to think there would be any real impact, I would have to see the numbers that show exactly how many people are running with a resold bib or how many needed someone else to pick up their packet. I just can't imagine we're looking at numbers that make up a large percentage, which would mean the impact would be minimal.

 

[pigletliz]

.
"What if they had a way where for a fee, you could have the race packet delivered to your Disney resort and given to you upon check in. You need to show ID to check in. The fee could offset whatever it would cost them to hire an employee(s) to bring packets to the various Disney resorts"

Logistically, I don't think hotel pick up would work. Bibs would be removed from a central location to multiple locations making it very difficult for the dedicated (very small) run Disney staff to troubleshoot problems. The actual packet pick up booths are manned by volunteers, so they are not getting paid, but they do need a staffer on site to make the tough calls.

Also, the hotel staff have enough responsibility with regular hotel check in without adding the bib process.

Also, I have volunteered at registration for several years. You would not believe the number of runners who yell/curse at the volunteers because they either didn't bring their ID or failed to bring the authorization for picking up for a friend/neighbor/purchaser.... Not pleasant.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I would say this kind of stress would only be initially as people adjust to the new policy. But people traveling to other states for races is nothing new, nor is a policy such as this one.

I know the policy is in effect elsewhere, but aside from driving traffic for the expo vendors I don't see it as being necessary*. And lord knows runDisney doesn't seem to be having issues with too little traffic at their expos. Allowing friends and family to pick up packets was a reasonable offer which ehanced customer service; eliminating it seems only to diminish the level of customer service while providing nothing meaningful to runners.

We've always been able to attend the expos, but we are planning to pick up my brother's packet the Friday before EEC when we are there since he was unable to fly down until Saturday due to work. We'll likely have to do race day pickup now for Marathon Weekend in January since our own work schedules will limit the time we have to Saturday and Sunday. Sure, we'll get our bibs, but it will be less convenient than receiving it from a friend or family member the night before if we have to get up earlier than we already do or have to deal with long lines to receive our bibs while corrals line up for the start.

It will be a non-issue the longer it's in place and people forget about the convenience of having a friend pick up their packet so they didn't have to hustle to do one more thing on race morning; but for the time being, it's disappointing to see runDisney cut back on customer service without any real explanation or indication that it meaningfully benefits their participants.

*RnR cites security as the reason for their packet pickup policy, but I can't see and they couldn't explain how it in any way enhances security

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

*RnR cites security as the reason for their packet pickup policy, but I can't see and they couldn't explain how it in any way enhances security

Because when Runner B buys a bib from Runner A, and Runner B commits some sort of crime on the course, and Disney GAVE the bib to Runner B, they are liable. Under the new policy, Runner A is liable.

 

[bumbershoot]

What if they had a way where for a fee, you could have the race packet delivered to your Disney resort and given to you upon check in. You need to show ID to check in. The fee could offset whatever it would cost them to hire an employee(s) to bring packets to the various Disney resorts.

That doesn't help locals, or semi-locals, who aren't going to be staying onsite.