Number of People Walking

[SL6827]

They were all removed from 12/2 - 12/9. They began showing back up on the 9th. In fact, I reacquired my walk on the 9th and pushed my dates to the 15th.

Same thing as values but they showed back up after a week.

Any idea why this happened?

 

[ziravan]

Any idea why this happened?

Same reason why the values are still gone?

Except the concierge rooms didn’t disappear for as long. Of course, the concierge studio rooms at 19 points are more than twice as expensive as the 8 point values in early Dec.

The 8 points are much more cost effective to turn around CRO.

 

[SL6827]

Same reason why the values are still gone?

Except the concierge rooms didn’t disappear for as long. Of course, the concierge studio rooms at 19 points are more than twice as expensive as the 8 point values in early Dec.

The 8 points are much more cost effective to turn around CRO.

Just to line Disney's pockets even more. Disgusting. I wonder if this will become a more common practice with Disney. Abuse of power.

 

[ziravan]

Just to line Disney's pockets even more. Disgusting. I wonder if this will become a more common practice with Disney. Abuse of power.

I’m not 100% sure what’s going on.

I AM 100% sure that DVC is making it worse by not being transparent about it.

Given what we’ve been told (conflicting and wrong information), it’s no wonder people are making conclusions.

 

[cruisin5]

Messing with the inventory makes me more upset than the 2020 point charts.

 

[CarolMN]

I’m not 100% sure what’s going on.

I AM 100% sure that DVC is making it worse by not being transparent about it.

Given what we’ve been told (conflicting and wrong information), it’s no wonder people are making conclusions.

Agree.

I prefer to blame "plain old incompetence" rather than "malice aforethought". It's probably related to the hotel rehab plans and not understanding what inventory will be impacted and when. Or it could be indecision and project timelines / budgets that are as firm as jello. Having worked in corporate environments, I understand that - way too many fingers in the pie and the "worker bees" getting conflicting orders from too many sources. Happens way too often, even in the better-managed companies. JMHO. YMMV.

 

[gillep]

Agree.

I prefer to blame "plain old incompetence" rather than "malice aforethought". It's probably related to the hotel rehab plans and not understanding what inventory will be impacted and when. Or it could be indecision and project timelines / budgets that are as firm as jello. Having worked in corporate environments, I understand that - way too many fingers in the pie and the "worker bees" getting conflicting orders from too many sources. Happens way too often, even in the better-managed companies. JMHO. YMMV.

I agree, and hope this is all it is. It definitely has not been made better though by people showing that value rooms have been available via CRO for this time period. It is just a frustrating situation all around, especially since it has been going on so long.

 

[CarolMN]

I agree, and hope this is all it is. It definitely has not been made better though by people showing that value rooms have been available via CRO for this time period. It is just a frustrating situation all around, especially since it has been going on so long.

I don't read a lot into seeing the value rooms offered for cash, either. It's probably just a "hidden" discount.

Disney often upgrades cash guests to more expensive rooms. Perhaps the plan is to upgrade those who book values to Kidani savanna views (those rooms are often available late into the booking periods). Makes the guests happy and is a way to get more $$ for those room without cannibalizing ( losing the revenue from the guests who want the savanna views enough to pay) the higher rate. Cruise ships do this all the time if the higher cost categories are not selling as fast as the lower ones. Same concept.

Again, different departments, different strategies that not always in sync with each other. Common in large "silo" companies.

 

[gillep]

I don't read a lot into seeing the value rooms offered for cash, either. It's probably just a "hidden" discount.

Disney often upgrades cash guests to more expensive rooms. Perhaps the plan is to upgrade those who book values to Kidani savanna views (those rooms are often available late into the booking periods). Makes the guests happy and is a way to get more $$ for those room without cannibalizing ( losing the revenue from the guests who want the savanna views enough to pay) the higher rate. Cruise ships do this all the time if the higher cost categories are not selling as fast as the lower ones. Same concept.

Again, different departments, different strategies that not always in sync with each other. Common in large "silo" companies.

Agree as well, I just don't think the optics of it are very good, and therefore leading to rampant speculation. I have no idea what is going on with these rooms, but I guess I just think that if MS let us know what is happening it would be a lot better all around. I don't for a moment see that happening though so the speculation will continue.

 

[meekey7197]

my goodness... when do we think MS is going to release these It is getting a little ridiculous. I know that I can't plan my point use based on getting a value room but I'd at least like a shot

(this is a rhetorical question, I know we have no clue when the madness will end)

 

[AnnaKat]

We own at AKV and I have always been able to book a value room at 11 months. Every time. This year I was shut out at 8 am every day I tried. Thankfully I was able to pick up the nights I needed after the walkers dropped them and my stay is complete. I still need to call and get all these individual nights consolidated into one reservation. I'm making another reservation in a couple of weeks and I guess I will be trying to walk now too if I can catch a room at 8 am. Ironically if I am not able to walk and my room in advance I will be having to mess with trying to catch dropped rooms from walkers while we are at Disney on a trip. So don't want to deal with that!! Wish me luck. I'm NOT a morning person so this getting up early on the weekends thing sucks.

The same with us!
This year was so impossible that we had to start walking a standard studio)Jambi House) in Sept for mid-November!
We had always been able to get outright or walk the value studio!

Not so this year!
Our browsers are too slow so we lose out!!!

 

[kboo]

Disney often upgrades cash guests to more expensive rooms. Perhaps the plan is to upgrade those who book values to Kidani savanna views (those rooms are often available late into the booking periods). Makes the guests happy and is a way to get more $$ for those room without cannibalizing ( losing the revenue from the guests who want the savanna views enough to pay) the higher rate. Cruise ships do this all the time if the higher cost categories are not selling as fast as the lower ones. Same concept.

Off-topic, but: This actually doesn't surprise me - not only does it make the guests feel good about the "upgrade," it does a little selling of DVC as well. Our first DVC stay ever was a cash room booked as a BWV "standard studio" (for under $300/nt) for which we were "upgraded" to a 1br pool and garden view. That was our first stay ever in a DVC, and a 1br to boot, and had us thinking about whether DVC made sense for us. Less than 2 years later, we bought our first contract. (Not direct, though)

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

The same with us!
This year was so impossible that we had to start walking a standard studio)Jambi House) in Sept for mid-November!
We had always been able to get outright or walk the value studio!

Not so this year!
Our browsers are too slow so we lose out!!!

Maybe the reason people are having trouble at 11 months for these categories is that moore people are booking rooms they have ZERO intention of staying in 2.5 months ahead of time. There's only so many values and if people are walking that far ahead it screws up the inventory for ALL members trying for that category....for months at a time.

But I guess the most important thing is those people get their room.

 

[ziravan]

Maybe the reason people are having trouble at 11 months for these categories is that moore people are booking rooms they have ZERO intention of staying in 2.5 months ahead of time. There's only so many values and if people are walking that far ahead it screws up the inventory for ALL members trying for that category....for months at a time.

But I guess the most important thing is those people get their room.

You could say the same thing about people booking at 11 months and changing their rooms at 7 months. They hold rooms for months that they don’t intend to use.

At least the walkers let the rooms they aren’t going to use go free fairly quickly.

Point being, booking and changing rooms/dates isn’t a bug of DVC; it’s a feature.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

You could say the same thing about people booking at 11 months and changing their rooms at 7 months. They hold rooms for months that they don’t intend to use.

At least the walkers let the rooms they aren’t going to use go free fairly quickly.

Point being, booking and changing rooms/dates isn’t a bug of DVC; it’s a feature.

It's not the same at all. If they can't switch out at 7 months those people USE the room they booked. They are booking the dates they actually want to be at WDW. Those people that switch at 7 months aren't affecting inventory for large spans of times...like the post above, where a studio was affected for 2.5 straight months. If every week in November and December had 1 person walking an AKV value and started 2.5 months out over 1/2 the inventory is taken in Sept/Oct by people that don't want it. Those that want those dates have to hope they get the walkers scraps. It's one thing if people could then pick up a whole week. But many get only a day here and a day there. How is that helpful to anyone? At least those that switch at 7 months people are releasing entire reservations. I really think some people on this board have convinced themselves that walking is HELPFUL.

Being able to change dates is a feature of DVC. But those that book the rooms with zero intention are abusing the system plain and simple. It's obviously easy to convince yourself that it's not, but there are always people that will exploit loopholes. I guess saving 5 points a night is worth it to some.

I personally group walkers with the people who hoard 15 ADRs for the same day/times. It's the same principle...as long as they get what they want, no matter how they do it, it's okay.

 

[ziravan]

It's not the same at all. If they can't switch out at 7 months those people USE the room they booked. They are booking the dates they actually want to be at WDW. Those people that switch at 7 months aren't affecting inventory for large spans of times...like the post above, where a studio was affected for 2.5 straight months. If every week in November and December had 1 person walking an AKV value and started 2.5 months out over 1/2 the inventory is taken in Sept/Oct by people that don't want it. Those that want those dates have to hope they get the walkers scraps. It's one thing if people could then pick up a whole week. But many get only a day here and a day there. How is that helpful to anyone? At least those that switch at 7 months people are releasing entire reservations. I really think some people on this board have convinced themselves that walking is HELPFUL.

Being able to change dates is a feature of DVC. But those that book the rooms with zero intention are abusing the system plain and simple. It's obviously easy to convince yourself that it's not, but there are always people that will exploit loopholes. I guess saving 5 points a night is worth it to some.

I personally group walkers with the people who hoard 15 ADRs for the same day/times. It's the same principle...as long as they get what they want, no matter how they do it, it's okay.

You’re talking about people’s intentions and not actual booking patterns.

In actuality, many rooms are held for months and then released.

In actuality, the net result is the same.

If one booking pattern is an abuse of the system, then they both are.

I disagree with the whole premise. Using the system, by the rules as implemented, is merely using - and not abusing - the system.

 

[chicagodisneyguy]

People's intentions are at the crux of the whole issue. Booking a room with no intention to stay there in order to position yourself ahead of the 11 month window versus someone's plans legitimately changing is 100% different.

Being able to switch your resort at 7 months is an intended part of the program. Everyone buys in knowing they can do it. Do people honestly think switching resorts at 7 months is the same as walking a reservation for 75 nights or more? I can say with confidence that booking rooms with zero intentions of staying in them to jump the 11 month window is not an intended part of the program.

Just because a practice, that almost any other lodging company bans, isn't explicitly prohibited by DVC doesn't make it right.

I think the only reason we haven't seen DVC curtail the practice is there's no easy way to do it. Unless they implemented changes to only the few categories that are actively walked, it would probably negatively affect way more people across the whole DVC system than it would help. I'm resigned to the fact that walking probably isn't going anywhere....doesn't mean i have to like it

 

[ziravan]

People's intentions are at the crux of the whole issue. Booking a room with no intention to stay there in order to position yourself ahead of the 11 month window versus someone's plans legitimately changing is 100% different.

Being able to switch your resort at 7 months is an intended part of the program. Everyone buys in knowing they can do it. Do people honestly think switching resorts at 7 months is the same as walking a reservation for 75 nights or more? I can say with confidence that booking rooms with zero intentions of staying in them to jump the 11 month window is not an intended part of the program.

Just because a practice, that almost any other lodging company bans, isn't explicitly prohibited by DVC doesn't make it right.

I think the only reason we haven't seen DVC curtail the practice is there's no easy way to do it. Unless they implemented changes to only the few categories that are actively walked, it would probably negatively affect way more people across the whole DVC system than it would help. I'm resigned to the fact that walking probably isn't going anywhere....doesn't mean i have to like it

Yes, I think it’s the same. That doesn’t mean I’m dissing the time honored strategy of booking at 11 and switching at 7. It means that I don’t believe walking is any different.

It’s certainly not some great moral crime; “abuse”. It not an abuse of the system. It IS the system.

People’s intentions are irrelevant; room availability is the crux of the issue.

No matter the intent, taking a room out of circulation is . . . taking a room out of circulation.

 

[ziravan]

You could make the argument that booking at 11 with the intent to switch at 7 isn’t as bad because not all rooms will switch.

But.

You could make the argument that walking isn’t as bad as switching because it only holds the rooms for a few days instead of months. And with walking, you can reasonably predict when the rooms will be released.

So. A wash.

 

[ziravan]

A free wheeling system is a benefit and one of the reasons why DVC is better than its competitors.

Maximum flexibility keeps the system fluid.

A system that locks in your 11 month choice wouldn’t be nearly as flexible. Anything less than that involves booking rooms with the distinct possibility of not using that particular room.

Booking rooms where you continue to hold the flexibility to move that reservation around to your maximum advantage - that’s one of the key ways in which DVC is a superior system. It’s a function of the system, and a pretty great one.