Opinions on "line cutting"?

[StarlitNight05]

It's pretty simple to me.

Line cutting is against the rules, Genie+ is not. Whether you agree with it or the impact is the same for the person in the standby line are irrelevant.

Genie+ is strictly controlled and limited by Disney so that the impact is limited. Fortunately, line cutting is also limited by the fact that the vast majority of us follow the rules. Either practice run rampant would be a **** show.

I wish this was like Reddit and I could give this response an award. This sums it up perfectly!

 

[TheDailyMoo]

In defense of retail employees (as a former one), most of them are instructed by management not to do anything. Too often trying to stop someone has resulted in the thief attacking the employee, and now not only did the business lose merchandise, their worker's comp plan has to pay all the medical bills of the employee and it's a whole mess of red tape and paperwork. It's much easier to just let it go, especially for petty shoplifting. (okay, technically, they can say that's a rule to protect the safety of the employees, but i'm a cynic and I know better...)

For larger stores with more expensive items, they want those employees to leave it to security and loss prevention to handle it for the same reasons. But at least larger stores have cameras and such.

I'm sure Disney CMs also have guidelines for when and how to confront guests or when to call security in. If they don't do anything, it's likely they've been told not to intervene for smaller issues like that.

Oh for sure! I'm not criticizing the employees at all! I absolutely would not want a regular worker interfering and possibly getting hurt or worse when these big companies just write it off. No I was just making the point that if there are many more people these days willing to casually stroll out of a store with stolen merchandise I think line cutting is the least of our worries! Also used that as an example of why I wouldn't expect CMs to get involved. I don't fault them in the least. We have HOV lanes where we live and every day for work I'm stuck in traffic and you bet your bottom dollar I stare at everyone in the HOV lane and sure enough I'd say every 3-4 out of 10 cars is breaking the law by being in the lane by themselves avoiding traffic. And I personally think it's a snowball effect because the more people that act this way the more others that may have been holding back from breaking rules decide hey why am I being the idiot here let me join. So maybe a little off topic sorry but the whole blatant line cutting really is just an extension of this entitlement to a slightly lesser degree. If I'm waiting for Space Ranger Spin for 50 minutes and a big group of people cut the line now I'm waiting maybe 54 minutes. 4 minutes of my time isn't that big a deal but what happens if 4, 5, 6, 10 groups of people decide to do that. There are breaking points for everything. Hopefully things don't devolve to the level where it's just the wild west when it comes to lines. Plus I'm assuming if things ever got to be THAT bad then Disney, or whoever, would switch things up and create new sets of rules for getting into attractions.

 

[starlite_]

Can confirm. When I used to work in retail, you could actually get fired if you intervened in anyone shoplifting. It was easier for the store to just write off anything stolen as a loss. Plus if I'm being 100% honest for a second, I wasn't going to risk my life for a $3 carton of eggs. You didn't know if someone had a weapon or not.

Sorry, I know that's off topic. Back to the thread's regularly scheduled programming.

To be fair, if someone is stealing a carton of eggs then they probably need it more than big retail needs the $3.

 

[Smugpugmug]

To be fair, if someone is stealing a carton of eggs then they probably need it more than big retail needs the $3.

You wouldn't believe me if I told you how many cartons of eggs and other food we tossed out at the end of the day. At that point the one carton doesn't even matter.

 

[Lumpy1106]

It's pretty simple to me.

Line cutting is against the rules, Genie+ is not. Whether you agree with it or the impact is the same for the person in the standby line are irrelevant.

Genie+ is strictly controlled and limited by Disney so that the impact is limited. Fortunately, line cutting is also limited by the fact that the vast majority of us follow the rules. Either practice run rampant would be a **** show.

"the impact is the same for the person in the standby line" - huh? That's my point - the impact is MUCH bigger from G+ than the guy breaking the rules. You can't even debate that. That being the case, don't let the rule-breaker ruin your day.

I have an alternate theory, and that is that people do not complain about G+ because THEY want to use it without feeling guilty about it. OK - at least be honest about it.

 

[tx911]

"the impact is the same for the person in the standby line" - huh? That's my point - the impact is MUCH bigger from G+ than the guy breaking the rules. You can't even debate that. That being the case, don't let the rule-breaker ruin your day.

I have an alternate theory, and that is that people do not complain about G+ because THEY want to use it without feeling guilty about it. OK - at least be honest about it.

Line cutting - breaking the rules to gain an advantage

Genie+ - using a paid service to gain an advantage

It’s like paying a yearly membership fee to buy household items at a discount vs shoplifting.

 

[BrianL]

In defense of retail employees (as a former one), most of them are instructed by management not to do anything. Too often trying to stop someone has resulted in the thief attacking the employee, and now not only did the business lose merchandise, their worker's comp plan has to pay all the medical bills of the employee and it's a whole mess of red tape and paperwork. It's much easier to just let it go, especially for petty shoplifting. (okay, technically, they can say that's a rule to protect the safety of the employees, but i'm a cynic and I know better...)

For larger stores with more expensive items, they want those employees to leave it to security and loss prevention to handle it for the same reasons. But at least larger stores have cameras and such.

I'm sure Disney CMs also have guidelines for when and how to confront guests or when to call security in. If they don't do anything, it's likely they've been told not to intervene for smaller issues like that.

Oh yes, trying to intervene with shoplifters can be very dangerous. I worked at a video store where someone tried to walk out with some movies. The sensor tripped and an employee asked them to please go back to check (I was not there at the time). The shoplifter punched the employee in the face and ran. Many of the younger guys who worked there chased after him. The store manager, a former Marine, chased after THEM. He ended up with the shoplifter coming at him and stabbing him - collapsed lung. Thankfully he was okay, but none of that was worth it over a couple of movies!

Disney generally takes a non-confrontational stance on things like this, and I actually agree with that. Sure, some people are going to take advantage, but it's not so pervasive that it causes me any major inconvenience. So, a few people get on the ride ahead of me - what did I lose? Like a minute? I would rather that happen sometimes than to constantly have to see CM's confronting argumentative guests. I've seen it - it can get ugly! It ruins the atmosphere of the park. Certianly there are times when bad behavior needs to be addressesd, safety issues and such, but for the little things? Keeping it subtle is fine to me, even if some people get away with stuff.

 

[Aladora]

FP+ was a weird gray area for me. Yes, it's line cutting, but everybody got it so the playing field was still level. Yes, you had to stand in longer standby lines but you for sure got to cut a few lines without paying more to do so.

Time is money in WDW/DL. You could argue all was fair if you were paying the people in the standby line to cut in front of them in the G+ - but you are not, you are paying Disney instead. Do you want to argue that the ticket price has gone down for the people in the standby line because people are buying G+? Oh please - don't even try.

"the impact is the same for the person in the standby line" - huh? That's my point - the impact is MUCH bigger from G+ than the guy breaking the rules. You can't even debate that. That being the case, don't let the rule-breaker ruin your day.

I have an alternate theory, and that is that people do not complain about G+ because THEY want to use it without feeling guilty about it. OK - at least be honest about it.

I am unapologetic about paying for and using G+. I feel zero guilt so there is nothing I need to "be honest about".

You said that you did not mind as much when everyone could use FP when it was free, it is only when we had to pay for it that you felt it was not fair. So, it is not the "line cutting" you have a problem with, it is the fact that it is not free anymore that is the issue. It sounds to me as though you are bitter that people choose to spend their money to spend less time in lines and you do not.

I sum up a lot of things in life using this statement:

"Some people spend time to save money, others spend money to save time."

I spend money at DL to save time, I buy G+ and ILL so that I save my time there. It is a system that Disney put in place and it is a system that I will continue to use as long as the money/time valuation works for me and my family. For me, that money is less valuable than the time.

There are things in my day to day life that I spend time on to save money. I could get dinner delivered every single night if I wanted and save the time I spend prepping, cooking, and cleaning up but I prefer to spend that time rather than that money.

There are other things in my regular life that I choose to spend money to save time. I have a cleaner come here once a week and spend 2 hours cleaning our house. Those 2 hours are more valuable than the money I spend on her so I prefer to spend money rather than time.

But, all that is kinda irrelevant in this debate. This all started about line cutting and whether you believe it or not, buying G+ is not line cutting, at least not to the people who make the rules at Disneyland.

People who pay for G+ and use it are choosing to spend their money and save their time, all within the boundaries of the system that Disneyland has set.

People who cut in front of others, regardless of if it is a standby line, a lightning lane, a line for food, a line at the front gate, or a line for the restroom, are being selfish and breaking the rules.

 

[starlite_]

...

I sum up a lot of things in life using this statement:

"Some people spend time to save money, others spend money to save time."

...

AMEN!

 

[DizMe]

The thing about stuff like Genie+ and VIP tours is that it isn't a level playing field. For good or ill, it is preferential treatment. Does that make it bad? I don't know, but the use of preferential treatment is endemic to our society in general. Pay more for better seats at concerts and shows. Pay more to get in earlier. "Pay more for" is something we've created to get extras as long as we can and want to pay extra for it.

But when it is overdone, it begins to seem like a necessity. If your standby wait goes from 15 minutes to over an hour or you can no longer see the show without upgrading your seat in a theater, it may compel you to purchase the upgrade or skip the thing altogether. The problem is compounded when it's more than one individual in the party as the cost goes up that much more.

That's why people loved FP, because it wasn't an extra cost and it was more or less equally accessible to anyone, and therefore not really preferential treatment in the way that compulsory purchase is.

However, neither of those is cheating. Both were sanctioned and provided by Disney. Cheating is never ok, regardless of whether or not it's monitored and enforced. It falls more under the label of personal integrity, and that is something that isn't easily controlled.

 

[Lisa24jks]

I have an alternate theory, and that is that people do not complain about G+ because THEY want to use it without feeling guilty about it. OK - at least be honest about it.

I do not feel guilty in the least. If someone's going to offer me a service that makes my life a little bit easier, and it's something I can afford, I'm gonna take it. Life is hard, so a little extra comfort and convenience for a small price? Not going to feel guilty about that EVER. I work hard for my money and I'm not going to feel guilty about using what I have to improve my life in even the smallest of ways.

That said, people can also still complain about services they paid for if it's an imperfect service. And people complain about Genie+ a lot, even the ones who use it at every visit. Because it's not always perfect. And that's absolutely valid and should be voiced in order to get Disney's attention to hopefully make improvements.

 

[irlandaise]

If one person goes in front of you, you are delayed one space in line. If 100 people go ahead of you, you are delayed 100 times more in the same line. It does not matter how they got in front of you.

So all you care about is whether you're delayed in getting onto a ride? It doesn't matter to you why you're delayed? You see no moral difference between someone who paid to get into a shorter line and someone who decided to shorten their wait time by pushing ahead of others?

 

[thanxfornoticin]

LOL, I do not feel guilty in the least. If someone's going to offer me a service that makes my life a little bit easier, and it's something I can afford, I'm gonna take it. Life is hard, so a little extra comfort and convenience for a small price? Not going to feel guilty about that EVER. I work hard for my money and I'm not going to feel guilty about using what I have to improve my life in even the smallest of ways.

That said, people can also still complain about services they paid for if it's an imperfect service. And people complain about Genie+ a lot, even the ones who use it at every visit. Because it's not always perfect. And that's absolutely valid and should be voiced in order to get Disney's attention to hopefully make improvements.

Yea, no guilt here either. And we haven't really dug into those Club 33 rascals yet, have we? They're in those LL lines, as well!

 

[Genie+]

The reason I rarely buy Genie+ has nothing to do with guilt, it’s just a crappy system for EP and AK. Next trip the only park we’re entertaining to buy G+ is HS because we have MK EEH and DAH.

Should people also feel guilty when buying party tickets that close the park earlier for other people?

 

[Smugpugmug]

I really doubt that the estimated 50% of guests according to Chapek feel guilty about buying Genie+ and ILL. Wasn't specified exactly if that is for WDW or DL but a decent chunk of guests are zipping through those Lightning Lanes guilt free.

 

[irlandaise]

The reason I rarely buy Genie+ has nothing to do with guilt, it’s just a crappy system for EP and AK. Next trip the only park we’re entertaining to buy G+ is HS because we have MK EEH and DAH.

I'm not up on WDW terminology. "EEH" must be something like "early entry hours"? But what's "DAH"?

Should people also feel guilty when buying party tickets that close the park earlier for other people?

Oooh, good point! I was at Disneyland one night when Apple had bought it up. So I got all the benefits of a private party without spending a penny of my own (except on food and souvenirs). I guess I should feel extra guilty about that!

 

[Genie+]

That 50% number also never specified exactly what was measured. I think it just means 50% of guests buy at least one G+/ILL add-on, and that could be per trip. They just didn’t specify so who knows?

 

[Smugpugmug]

That 50% number also never specified exactly what was measured. I think it just means 50% of guests buy at least one G+/ILL add-on, and that could be per trip. They just didn’t specify so who knows?

The only specifics I found say that at least 50% purchased a "Genie product" so I guess that means Genie+? It only mentions domestic park guests but that doesn't mean anything since the international parks do not have any form of Genie. I also found a stat that says 70% of that 50% said they would purchase it again on future trips.

 

[Uncle Coaster]

"the impact is the same for the person in the standby line" - huh? That's my point - the impact is MUCH bigger from G+ than the guy breaking the rules. You can't even debate that. That being the case, don't let the rule-breaker ruin your day.

I have an alternate theory, and that is that people do not complain about G+ because THEY want to use it without feeling guilty about it. OK - at least be honest about it.

I’m actually the opposite. I pay for G+ but then all these freeloaders trying to get a free ride get to jump the line in front of me. That doesn’t seem fair.

 

[Genie+]

I'm not up on WDW terminology. "EEH" must be something like "early entry hours"? But what's "DAH"?

DAH is Disney After Hours.