Opinions on "line cutting"?

[gardenrooms]

This is not an apples to apples comparison. I am allowed to buy G+ and use the service, everyone at DL is allowed to avail themselves of this service if they choose to buy it. No one is allowed to cut in line.

Were you annoyed by people in the FP lane when it was still free? When free FPs were a thing they were allowed to be there. People in the G+/ILL lane are also allowed to be there as long as they paid the cost. People are not allowed to cut in lines.

But Disney seemed to know (or is it care) how to manage the FP lines (maybe by not giving away too many, as it cost them nothing!). I NEVER experienced a nightmare like SDMT last year when it got so bad the crowd would CHEER when 1 person in the standby line got to move, after standing for 15 or 20 minutes at a time with absolutely zero movement.

 

[gardenrooms]

It's pretty simple to me.

Line cutting is against the rules, Genie+ is not. Whether you agree with it or the impact is the same for the person in the standby line are irrelevant.

Genie+ is strictly controlled and limited by Disney so that the impact is limited. Fortunately, line cutting is also limited by the fact that the vast majority of us follow the rules. Either practice run rampant would be a **** show.

My experiences with LLs, though, has been that the system is out of control and that is the problem I have with it. If it were strictly controlled and well managed by Disney it would be fine. Universal seems to be able to manage their head of the line system without distorting wait times and stalling stand-by lines interminably, but Disney not so much. Might work better if there weren't so many breakdowns, but IMHO as it stands, it can create some horrible, unexpected experiences for stand-by guests.

 

[MonocularVision]

Judging the morality of an action based solely on how it affects you is literally the ethical system of a toddler.

 

[Love Tink]

Judging the morality of an action based solely on how it affects you is literally the ethical system of a toddler.

Eh. When we think about something as an ethical issue, we think about how it affects society. Using our personal experience as a part of that society is a perfectly valid way to consider it’s impact.

 

[Lumpy1106]

So all you care about is whether you're delayed in getting onto a ride? It doesn't matter to you why you're delayed? You see no moral difference between someone who paid to get into a shorter line and someone who decided to shorten their wait time by pushing ahead of others?

Unless they are paying ME to cut in front of me, no, why would it matter? I'm delayed the same amount no matter how they spend their money. Keep in mind, I'm annoyed by both. The same amount? Meh, no, the line cutter gets more scorn, naturally. I am pretty annoyed at Disney for having a paid line cutting program though - that's on them, not the people using it - for the most part.

Do you really have no sympathy for the people you are cutting in front of using G+? I have to say, that's a pretty sad commentary. How ironic that I am being criticized for not seeing a "moral difference".

 

[rarceneaux]

We will be with our daughter, husband, and 2 x grandsons (4 & 2) and have already had the "no one goes ahead without the others" conversation. Sure, the possibility of a bathroom emergency may arise and have to be dealt with, but if we plan our business properly, that should be a rarity and not the rule.

I have little patience for line cutters or 4 people joining one in line. Outside the inconvenience, I find this to be disrespectful of everyone there. As was mentioned earlier, while this might be an inconvenience to me/us, it is more of a statement of believed privilege or outright disrespect. These concepts are, in my opinion, representative of many facets of society today. I mean, if you will cut the line, how low will you go in other respects?

As for me and mine, I owe it to us and YOU to do the things I can to be mindful of others and minimize the chances of unexpected events. I refer to this as common courtesy. However, like common sense, there is nothing common about it!

 

[tx911]

Unless they are paying ME to cut in front of me, no, why would it matter? I'm delayed the same amount no matter how they spend their money. Keep in mind, I'm annoyed by both. The same amount? Meh, no, the line cutter gets more scorn, naturally. I am pretty annoyed at Disney for having a paid line cutting program though - that's on them, not the people using it - for the most part.

Do you really have no sympathy for the people you are cutting in front of using G+? I have to say, that's a pretty sad commentary. How ironic that I am being criticized for not seeing a "moral difference".

So you’re objecting to the fact that there is a mechanism in place by which people can pay extra money to have a better experience?

 

[Bad Pink Tink 2.0]

Do you really have no sympathy for the people you are cutting in front of using G+?

I can only go to Disneyland California once a year. Genie + and Individual Attraction Lighting Lanes are a must do for me. I only have a very limited amount of time in the parks. Honestly no, I dont have sympathy for those in standby. I will not be made to feel guilty for using a system Disney has created. I am playing by the rules.

The same way I have no problem with those who pay to stay onsite and get access to early opening hours. To get really pedantic, they are cutting in front of me and everyone else who stays offsite.

The same way I have no issue with people who pay for the VIP tours who get special access.

I only have issues with those who push past me either in standby lines or in the Lightening Lanes, who are cutting in line because they know the CM's wont stop them. I have issues with entitled people who think that standing in line is beneath them.

 

[Lisa24jks]

Do you really have no sympathy for the people you are cutting in front of using G+? I have to say, that's a pretty sad commentary. How ironic that I am being criticized for not seeing a "moral difference".

Love how this thread started as "is line cutting bad" to "let's attach a moral value to taking advantage of a system that is in place and offered to everyone". It wasn't even about Genie+ to begin with, but of course you had to make it about that.

Yes, obviously, some of those systems in place are only available in theory to people because of financial privilege. I can afford Genie+, I can afford TSA pre-check. I cannot afford to stay at the GCH or be a Club 33 member and thus cannot take advantage of any of those perks or privileges.

If you want to make it a moral issue, make it a moral issue with every business that profits off of selling extra convenience and comfort to those that can afford it and leaving lower income people out in the cold.

Human beings are only human and we're generally going to make choices that make our lives easier whenever we can. It doesn't make us morally superior or inferior to do it, nor does it make anyone morally superior or inferior who don't. We're all just trying to exist here within a system that isn't always fair.

 

[starlite_]

These concepts are, in my opinion, representative of many facets of society today. I mean, if you will cut the line, how low will you go in other respects?

I was gonna agree with you till this sentence. Guy cut in line, must be an ax murderer . I really dislike this type of judge-y generalizations.

 

[LKing]

That 50% number also never specified exactly what was measured. I think it just means 50% of guests buy at least one G+/ILL add-on, and that could be per trip. They just didn’t specify so who knows?

That 50% stat must be for WDW and not DL.

 

[Genie+]

Do you really have no sympathy for the people you are cutting in front of using G+?

For me yeah, sometimes I’ll sympathetically think about that family with little WDW experience, worked hard to get there, and for whatever reasons end up touring in the worst ways possible. Mostly happens the times we’ve seen FoP at AK with 3+ hour lines before noon. A few times we saw 200-300 mins posted. Sympathy because I couldn’t wrap my head around doing that myself, which made me think about why someone would choose to. It’s crossed my mind for other lines too.

There’s always other options. For whatever reason they are choosing that. Without buying Genie they can still plan better strategies to avoid the worst of it. Ropedrop, park close, sometimes even just waiting (like startours, dino, etc), adding lower cost ticket days, avoiding busiest weeks, staying onsite for perks…

I’m not going to feel sorry because somebody doesn’t get to do every attraction in a day. Often we choose to skip many rides if over 60min waits, and that results in <6 attractions that day. Should I question the morals of others who choose to pound attractions and clog up the standby lines all day long? This is all more complex than just G+ buyers should feel guilt over other people’s choices.

 

[Kit Jackson]

I am pretty annoyed at Disney for having a paid line cutting program though - that's on them, not the people using it - for the most part.

I am actually really glad you are making that distinction. It's an important and helpful clarification.

 

[TheDailyMoo]

If we're going to go down this ambiguous route of what's morally or ethically the right thing to do at Disney we can look at ADRs as well. How many of us grab ADRs as a "just in case" knowing there's a good chance we cancel by the 2 hour deadline. Or book multiple hotel rooms as a "just in case" knowing one or more of them will eventually be cancelled. All of this is playing by the rules that Disney has set forth just like G+.

If a family has a 5:30 dining reservation and I jump onto the table first and know that no one is going to stop me that's just wrong and egocentric "damned be everyone else but I" behavior. Now that doesn't happen (yet anyway) but jumping in front of hundreds of people following the societal norms and rules of "lines" is wrong and honestly you're just being an all around A$% if you do it without even a shred of shame or remorse.

 

[Lumpy1106]

So you’re objecting to the fact that there is a mechanism in place by which people can pay extra money to have a better experience?

At the expense of the experience of others, yes, absolutely.

I am not a fan of the line-cutting programs at 6-Flags/Cedarfair parks either, but I assert those programs are BETTER for everyone than G+. The pay-for-line-cutters get a better experience because they can use it without any line. Better for everyone else because it is SOO much more expensive that hardly anyone uses it so the lines are barely affected. The problem with G+ is that the mix is so badly skewed towards G+ that the standby lines just crawl. But, it has to be that way because so many people use it. Make no mistake about it, Disney is not your friend on this one. They set and adjust the price to maximize profit, not use, not to be more budget friendly to those who use it, and certainly not to optimize the experience for all.

 

[tx911]

At the expense of the experience of others, yes, absolutely.

I am not a fan of the line-cutting programs at 6-Flags/Cedarfair parks either, but I assert those programs are BETTER for everyone than G+. The pay-for-line-cutters get a better experience because they can use it without any line. Better for everyone else because it is SOO much more expensive that hardly anyone uses it so the lines are barely affected. The problem with G+ is that the mix is so badly skewed towards G+ that the standby lines just crawl. But, it has to be that way because so many people use it. Make no mistake about it, Disney is not your friend on this one. They set and adjust the price to maximize profit, not use, not to be more budget friendly to those who use it, and certainly not to optimize the experience for all.

I still disagree that Genie+ is on the same moral plane as line cutting, but it would be interesting to see what the lines would be like if there were VQs as the only option for the top tier rides, and regular standby for everything else. I don't have a good feel for how much longer Genie+ is making the standby lines.

 

[Smugpugmug]

Make no mistake about it, Disney is not your friend on this one. They set and adjust the price to maximize profit, not use, not to be more budget friendly to those who use it, and certainly not to optimize the experience for all.

Don't think anyone said anything remotely close to that. We all know that above all else, Disney cares more about profit and appeasing shareholders than guest satisfaction lol

 

[MonocularVision]

Eh. When we think about something as an ethical issue, we think about how it affects society. Using our personal experience as a part of that society is a perfectly valid way to consider it’s impact.

There was a very important italicized word in my post.

 

[LKing]

I don't have a good feel for how much longer Genie+ is making the standby lines.

With Splash and Haunted Mansion closed, Disneyland added Pirates to Genie +. The result is super long standby line. I don't have wait time comparisons between before it became Genie + to after, I just see the long lines stretched past Cafe Orleans to Tiana's and back. Between that and the Harbor Galley cookie line, it is tough to navigate through that section of the park.

 

[starlite_]

Look, I am the first to fight for equal access here. I've gone on rants before about how giving certain perks to only deluxe hotels is toeing the line with class segregation. But G+ is cheap enough that everyone can afford it if they want to (unlike Universal's Express Pass), so choosing not to buy it for whatever reason is absolutely a choice. And neither buying it or not buying it makes ppl better than others. No one is morally superior for choosing to do stand-by lines. What a dumb thing to say.

Can we go back to debating what is or isn't "line cutting"? That was far more enjoyable than ranting about G+ where it was not wanted.