Please learn from my mistakes

[DisOrBust]

First some background. I am an RN and my DH is a PT. We are use to wheelchairs, transferring etc. Our pet peeve is "Handicap abuse", makes my blood boil. My father came along on this trip as he has in the past. 74yo and with Parkinson's that has progressed to where mobilty is effected. I had asked a few question here prior to our visit. and we came up with a plan.

First we did not want to rent a scooter because...
1. I wasn't sure my Father reaction time and the stopping ablity of the scooter would be fast enough. The scooters looked cumbersome.
2. Didn't want the whole rig-a-ma-roll of loading a scooter on a bus.
3. Would rent w/c at the parks and use the "coutsey" w/c to get to the gate.

BIG MISTAKE:

1. There are few, count the 5 at EPCOT, courtsey
w/c available at any of the parks. If you are lucky to find one.

2. The walk from MK disablity parking and TTC. is AWEFUL.

3. The walk from most of the bus stops is also aweful.

In the PARKS.

1. Rented a w/c BUT my Mom thought she should push. Not gonna happen with a 74 yo female. Both my parents felt "bad" that we had to push Dad around. FYI: AK is a workout.

Finally on the last few day we rented an EVC in the parks. That was ideal to have BUT we still had the long walk to get to an EVC rental. WDW EVC are huge compared to the ones I saw from Scootarama.

Lesson learned rent an EVC offsite. Don't depend on W/C that don't exsist. To hell if it make the bus takes 20 minutes longer every time we get on.

I saw many able body people in rented EVCs, the crowning moment was a family of 4. Mom, Dad and 2 preteen DDs having a "blast" !! They told me how the rented them from scooterrama and took them to the parks in their rented minivan. I also so many morbidly obese couples on his & her EVCs'. I really think something should be done on a national level. Simmular to the H/C stickers for cars. My father has a card from medtronic explaining his "electrodes", I would love for that to happen.

 

[monami7]

They may not have looked like they needed them but they may have. Not saying people don't abuse these but recent events have made me less quick to judge. I had a hysterectomy 2 weeks ago. I am doing great but I rented a EVC for next week because walking around the parks will just be too much. I look perfectly healthy however. No outside signs of injury. I went to target yesterday and used one and people give me strange looks. Oh well. I have to do what is best for me. I do expect people to give me these looks at disney though.

 

[RNMOM]

I agree with you about renting ECV's offsite. I really find it difficult to understand how you, as a fellow nurse, could be so judgemental about obese people on scooters. Even obese people can have systemic medical problems. Even obese people may need assistance to be able to enjoy a wonderful vacation to WDW and is it really anyone else's place to judge that?
I am morbidly obese and have been all my life. I have also worked 30 years as an RN and just this year have had to stop due to being dx with psoriatric arthritis and Sjogren's syndrome. I am having so much difficulty using my left hand and my knees and back are so much worse than they have been even though I have had arthritis for 15 years. I look ok but if you could see under my clothes to my skin, you might change your mind. You might also change your mind if you see me in try to take care of my daily needs.

Please, we need to stop this bashing of all people, not only the obese. I agree getting a scooter for the fun of it is stupid but if you have a need, keep you head up high and enjoy your trip to the world, the store or even for a walk with your family.

 

[SueM in MN]

I agree with the OP points about the courtesy wheelchairs not being readily available and that the best way to make sure you get what you need is to rent from offsite.

But..........
we have been accused of "Handicap abuse".

My DD was sitting on a bench next to her wheelchair; her legs were crossed and she was swinging her top leg. Someone going by commented to his companion that my DD was one of "wheelchair cheaters" since she was obviously "not confined to a wheelchair."

That is true. She is not "confined to a wheelchair". She can get out of it - IF we help her to stand up and transfer. She is not able to walk, or even to stand up without someone holding her up.

On our last trip to WDW, we did rent an ECV for my Father in Law, who was in his mid 70s and had bad knees and hips. He had been in pain for his trips to WDW for the past 10 years, but would not use an ECV because he had seen how my DD was treated and he did not want anyone looking at him and judging him as being part of "handicap abuse". He would not use the ECV we rented offsite for him. There was another member of our party who could also have used the ECV, but he would use it only around the resort where no one would look at him funny or make any comments. This guy is not overweight, is in good shape and looks very healthy. He does though, have really bad knees, has had several knee surgeries and is trying to put off having his knees replaced for a few years because he is only 40. If he used the ECV in the parks, people would have looked at him and thought he looked too healthy, so must be using an ECV for some reason other than that he needed it. They would have been very wrong though.

There may be people who rent ECVs because they are lazy, but there is no way to tell those people from the people who have medical needs for them. And, most of the lines at WDW are wheelchair and ECV accessible, so there is little 'advantage' to using one. If someone is just using one out of laziness and wants to waste $30-40 a day, I agree it's stupid and wasteful, but that is no concern of mine.

 

[phillybeth]

People may be obese because of their medical conditions. Or they might have problems getting around because of their weight. Or they could have a condition unrelated to their size.

Regardless, it is impossible to look at someone and decide who needs a wheelchair or ECV. It is unfair to judge anyone based on what you think their needs are.

 

[winniedapooh]

People may be obese because of their medical conditions. Or they might have problems getting around because of their weight. Or they could have a condition unrelated to their size.

Regardless, it is impossible to look at someone and decide who needs a wheelchair or ECV. It is unfair to judge anyone based on what you think their needs are.

I agree with what you are saying Phillybeth and it these judgements that some people make that cause me NOT to get a wheelchair.

 

[RNMOM]

When I first started taking the carts in stores and renting an ECV at WDW, I was able to walk a bit but had to sit often. I did that for several trips. What happens in the evening however is pain that requires narcotics to abate. It also caused worsening sypmtoms for many days after. Nah, not worth it when all it takes is a little bit of help from a mobility device and I can keep doing the things my family needs me to do for them. I don't care about the looks and I drive around and look people in the eye and smile at them and say hello. I also excuse myself when I pass in front of them as I would if walking. I really don't care anymore what others think as I am tired of hiding in my home.

Go, use the ECV's or W/C's if you need them and forget what others say.

 

[Ms.Mouse]

I agree with you about renting ECV's offsite. I really find it difficult to understand how you, as a fellow nurse, could be so judgemental about obese people on scooters. Even obese people can have systemic medical problems. Even obese people may need assistance to be able to enjoy a wonderful vacation to WDW and is it really anyone else's place to judge that?

Please, we need to stop this bashing of all people, not only the obese. I agree getting a scooter for the fun of it is stupid but if you have a need, keep you head up high and enjoy your trip to the world, the store or even for a walk with your family.

I agree. As a nurse, also, I was reading the OP's comments and can't believe it's coming from a fellow nurse!!! We meet people every day who look "able" and know that with their dx's come the question on how they can function as well as they do on a daily basis. The thing about renting the ECV's offsite may be a smart thing to do during busy times because on my last trip, some people rented because their father/father-in-law had a heart condition and didn't want the problem of possibly not getting one while at WDW because they were rented out. I know there are those who get scooters and w/c's to be able to get at the head of the line but who are we to question who is/is not in pain or has a sickness of some sort???
I have to say, I was suffering with bone spurs and one day I just couldn't take the pain any longer and my son decided rather than allow me to go back to the hotel to rest, he rented a w/c so I could be with the family. I'd ride and rest up and then get out, put my grandson in the w/c and we'd push him around for awhile. I didn't think anything of it then because I was in agony but now that I've been on the site reading all the judgmental posts, I wonder who looked at our situation as people taking advantage.
Sometimes I read these posts and think if we all mind the affairs of our own and our family and not that of others, we'd have a great time at WDW, not have anything to complain about there and not have anything to post negatively about!!!! Then we'd come home and say...."Isn't it great that this "large person" or this person with a back problem etc. etc. etc. is able to enjoy WDW like the rest of us can!!! I would take a bet that the majority of these people wish they could ditch the w/c's and ECV's and walk the parks and stand in the lines SO the rest of us shouldn't judge whether they are "able" or not.

 

[hematite153]

I would take a bet that the majority of these people wish they could ditch the w/c's and ECV's and walk the parks and stand in the lines SO the rest of us shouldn't judge whether they are "able" or not.

Agreed. Despite foreknowledge of what will happen, my DW tends to push too hard and avoid using a w/c. The result of 1 day of walking at disney? Weeks of seriously impaired mobility and difficulty with even basic transfers for the rest of the vacation. However, if she uses a w/c in the parks, then she looks pretty normal and can even walk through the occasional line--space mtn is a hard push!

Please don't judge strangers as "abusing the system;" there are lots of reasons for needing a w/c. (Plus, my experience is that using the w/c actually slows us down at attractions. I seem to get through a lot faster when I go alone.)

 

[SueM in MN]

Please don't judge strangers as "abusing the system;" there are lots of reasons for needing a w/c. (Plus, my experience is that using the w/c actually slows us down at attractions. I seem to get through a lot faster when I go alone.)

A number of people who had temporary need for wheelchairs/ECVs and expected all sorts of 'advantages' have posted about the same thing about their experiences.
Quite a few people have posted that on about 50% of the attractions, the wait was exactly the same with a wheelchair/ECV as when they went without a wheelchair/ECV. About 25% of the attractions, they got on faster, but usually not that much faster. And about 25% of the attractions took longer - somethimes a lot longer with a wheelchair/ECV than without.
So, most people have posted that the end result was that it sort of all evened out and having a wheelchair/ECV did not make much difference in their wait times (and maybe even ended up taking a little more time).

At the 2 newer parks (MGM Studio and AK) all the attractions were built with accessibility in mind. Our experience in those parks is that we wait the same (or even longer when waiting for a wheelchair accessible ride car or one of the wheelchair spots for shows).

At Epcot, most of the waits are about the same (with the exception of waiting longer for wheelchair accessible cars). MK has more attractions that do not have accessible regular lines, so there may be some waits that are shorter there, but often the wait is in places where people are exiting right in front of you. The Fastpass lines are accessible for the most part, so waits in those lines would be the same.

 

[Adi12982]

Sometimes we can't see someone's handicap. Those who abuse the system also make my blood boil, especially as I push my brother around, whom we have to physically carry onto most rides (the one's I consider abusing the system are those that are sharing the chair, and saying whose turn is it to ride now. . . etc. I don't judge if I simply cannot see what is wrong, because I know better than that), BUT I have a feeling Karma may bite them in the behind one day. . . . It is a big lie to tell and it may come to haunt them one day, and even if it doesn't they told a big lie!

 

[dodukes]

I am not denying that you cant see the disabilities, because i agree with most some of them you just "cant tell", however everytime i go to disney over the past few years (and believe me I have been well over 50something times maybe more since i was born) there are just more and more and more wheelchairs and scooters that are rented!!

I know sometimes life gets in the way and you have some surgery and some other so and so but i REFUSE to believe that everyone in that park that has them really needs one of them and i hate to be the one to say it but mostly the people i see on the scooter are all obese, and yes i agree with the above poster that just because they are obese doesnt mean they dont have a disability but my god, it just gets worse and worse to walk around those parks (and believe me this weekend for some reason i thgouth it was the worst it has ever been), i felt really mean and guilty for thinking it this past weekend when we went but i told my dbf on an occasion that they really need to limit the number of scooters and w/c that they rent and let in as well as strollers!!! (this was partly cuz i was upset by the lack of courtesy and being able to move around the people who block everything and i was just pissy!..lol) sorry i know theres no way and i dont want someone who truly needs these two things to not be able to get in and enjoy the park, cuz nothing breaks my heart more that too see a child in a wheelchair unable to enjoy disney the way the rest of the kids do, but i really hate the cheaters and abusers that are just enjoying their lazy, carefree day in a scooter !!!!

 

[yorkshiregirl]

Last Christmas/New Year my husband rented an ECV due to a heart/lung condition which has reduced his mobility. Yes, outwardly he looks ok but after a few minutes walking he is in pain . This made all the difference in the world to him being able to get around the parks. Yes we seemed to sometimes get ahead of the line but then around the corner we then had to wait for a special boat/car to come around which did take longer. We never felt we had got 'one over anyone else' just grateful that we could continue visiting WDW.
We were glad to wait with everyone else, he needs it only to get around.
Our observations were that with the aging population there are going to be more and more people who like to visit WDW and other similar parks but find the overall distances too much.
Yes this will mean more scooters etc but we will all be old one day and do we want to limit peoples horizons and make them stay at home.

 

[RNMOM]

As far as seeing a lot more scooters, etc. I think that is just because they are a relatively new thing. I don't remember seeing them even 10 years ago at the parks but I could be wrong. The scooters are much more available and many of us can afford to buy our own now so I think that is why you notice them more. I usually am the only person on a scooter but I recently went to a large yearly Christmas craft event and there were about a dozen people on scooters and many with walkers and wheelchairs. I was surprised by this. I found myself coveting some of the fancier scooters than mine. LOL

Really though folks, we do have an aging population. We also have a society that feels entitled and if those of us who need assistance can get it and go enjoy some of the finer things in life, why should it bother you so much? Maybe that is a question you should be asking yourself.

 

[dodukes]

hey rnmom, you answered it all yourself, it doesnt bother me that those who need assistance get it, i htink its great that my grandfather can enjoy the park(he is 92) or that you just had surgery and you can go on a planned family ttrip or taht suddenly your dd broke a leg, or you know what i mean, its just the people who dont need it, who feel like heck well i can afford an ecv so why walk and let me just speed thru and complain cuz we cant be the firt to get in or have to wait to the next show cuz the wheelchair limit has been met ( ew had this happen at narnia, i had to stand next to some woman, (on a rented w/c) that refused to accpet that the narnia exhibit only holds 3 wheelchairs and that they told her the next show was in 10 minutes and now she had to wait for the one after that)...this is just annoying and like i said i dont want anyone to be limited and yes i will be old one day but it really irks me cuz you could tell by some of the attitudes that they expect their rented wheelchairs to get them special priviliges, i am glad that they have made the new parks fully accesible so that it cuts back on the cheating of the system.

 

[monami7]

I am just hoping that people don't judge me too much next week. I am going to have fun. By the way I also cannot ride the same rides as usual so it does even out I guess.

 

[kaytieeldr]

or you know what i mean, its just the people who dont need it,

Unless you are involved in a specific person's life, or their medical care/treatment, you don't known (and it's none of anybody's business) who assistance.


Nobody here knows me (well, I think maybe dclfun knows of me, since we have a mutual friend ) but here goes:
Yes, I'm obese (visible)
Even before now:
I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis about fifteen years ago (invisible to others).
I have dislocated my knee probably a dozen or so times in my adult life - I'm clumsy, I fall (invisible to others - unless you see me fall).
I broke my hip recently (invisible to others).
I've had several infections in my leg in the last couple of years (invisible unless I wear shorts - a view I would NEVER inflict on the public!)
One leg is shorter than the other (limp visible)
Walking for more than twenty minutes is painful (tears visible)


I pay the same price for my park admission as anybody else who buys the same type ticket.

I can either spend twenty minutes a day at a park (and that includes walking from and to transportation), or I can, yes, rent a mobility assistance device so that I can enjoy the full day at a park or parks. Unless I barrel into another Guest (which I feel entitled to do in the wheelchair lane outside The Land pavilion, although cooler minds with disagree with me ), how are MY needs the concern of ANYONE else?

 

[dodukes]

Unless you are involved in a specific person's life, or their medical care/treatment, you don't known (and it's none of anybody's business) who assistance.


Nobody here knows me (well, I think maybe dclfun knows of me, since we have a mutual friend ) but here goes:
Yes, I'm obese (visible)
Even before now:
I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis about fifteen years ago (invisible to others).
I have dislocated my knee probably a dozen or so times in my adult life - I'm clumsy, I fall (invisible to others - unless you see me fall).
I broke my hip recently (invisible to others).
I've had several infections in my leg in the last couple of years (invisible unless I wear shorts - a view I would NEVER inflict on the public!)
One leg is shorter than the other (limp visible)
Walking for more than twenty minutes is painful (tears visible)


I pay the same price for my park admission as anybody else who buys the same type ticket.

I can either spend twenty minutes a day at a park (and that includes walking from and to transportation), or I can, yes, rent a mobility assistance device so that I can enjoy the full day at a park or parks. Unless I barrel into another Guest (which I feel entitled to do in the wheelchair lane outside The Land pavilion, although cooler minds with disagree with me ), how are MY needs the concern of ANYONE else?

Since you chose to quote my post Ill reply here, like i said in my two other posts, I cant TELL who needs it or not but i'm SURE that not all who are on them need it. I dont go up to people and ask like you said first that is rude and its really NONE of my business, however i AM entitled to find it annoying that there is 1000 w/c, ecv's, strollers, all clogging up the lane at the same time, that is just my opinion, is it a fair opinion , probably not, but i do not run arouind insulting people or making comment to them because I DO NOT KNOW THEM!

 

[Cheshire Figment]

I think this whole thing boils down to a few points.

1. There are people with "invisible" disabilities.

2. There are people who abuse the system.

3. Disney tries to give all people, disabled or not, equal access.

4. The ADA does not permit requiring medical proof of a disability for access.

5. If a person is in a wheelchair or ECV Disney tries to have them have the same wait time as a person not using one; most of the time the wait times are the same, soemtimes shorter and sometimes longer.

6. And yes, I would be more than willing to give anyone who asks either or both of the ECVs I own if they will also accept the disabilities which make me need them in the first place.

And I think that this summarizes just about everything (except strollers which are another matter entirely) which has been discussed in this thread.

 

[dodukes]

I think this whole thing boils down to a few points.

1. There are people with "invisible" disabilities.

2. There are people who abuse the system.

3. Disney tries to give all people, disabled or not, equal access.

4. The ADA does not permit requiring medical proof of a disability for access.

5. If a person is in a wheelchair or ECV Disney tries to have them have the same wait time as a person not using one; most of the time the wait times are the same, soemtimes shorter and sometimes longer.

6. And yes, I would be more than willing to give anyone who asks either or both of the ECVs I own if they will also accept the disabilities which make me need them in the first place.

And I think that this summarizes just about everything (except strollers which are another matter entirely) which has been discussed in this thread.