Please learn from my mistakes

[SueM in MN]

Doctors judge levels of pain every day, "based on the patients word for it." But, doctors are also trained to spot malingerers, too. This is part of the "art" of medicine. We get our handicapped plates because they do- we get our authorizations for assistive devices to submit to third-party payers because they do- we get our medications and surgeries because they do. I think we can can count them to do the right thing.

Some doctors are skilled at judging pain level and only prescribing what is needed. Some ar not.
Some doctors do the right thing with assistive devices and parking permits, but not all.
Even if they did, the fact still remains that the ADA says a person with a disability can't be forced to prove their disability in order to get accomidation.
You can be asked "what type of assistance do you need?"
You can't be forced to prove a disability.
And the fact still remains that pain is hard to judge, even for professionals. Even for people who in specialized settings like Pain Clinics.

But, the fact remains, ECVs are a courtesy and Disney doens't need to allow them at all if they perceive there is abuse, not to mention the current fact that if the rentals run out, why don't they increase they rental pool? Because they don't want to encourage their use. So, to think their helpfulness is going to continue as more and more folks decide to use ECVs is only true up to a point. If they start causing significant problems for other park visitors, they'll be banned on safety reasons.

I'm just looking for a way out of this that would preserve the rights of the disabled.

Disney could stop renting them in the parks as a courtesy. They could not ban their use on safety reasons if someone brings their own or one they rented from off-site.
If that individual person is acting in an unsafe manner, they could ask/force that individual person to leave because of their actions.

ECVs do fit the definition of "common wheelchair" that is recognized by the ADA.

"Section 37.3 of the DOT’s regulations implementing the Americans with Disabilities Act of 1990 (ADA) (49 CFR Parts 27, 37, and 38) defines a "common wheelchair" a mobility aid belonging to any class of three or four-wheeled devices, usable indoors, designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments, whether operated manually or powered. A "common wheelchair" does not exceed 30 inches in width and 48 inches in length measured two inches above the ground, and does not weigh more than 600 pounds when occupied.

Is an electric scooter or other mobility device a common wheelchair?

If an electric scooter or other mobility device meets the physical specifications of a common wheelchair as defined by the DOT’s ADA regulations, it must be treated as a common wheelchair."

If it meets that definition, it is a "common wheelchair".

 

[emerymt]

Sue in MN,
Thanks for clarifying the question about ECVs that I asked two pages ago. It makes sense that they're counted as wheelchairs but I couldn't find that information any where.

So, what you're saying is that you'd rather see Disney stop renting ECVs in order to make a point about not showing a piece of paper? That's what I get from your posts.

I myself would rather have a little inconvenience than a big one, no matter what the ADA says. Again, this is an example of the law not being able to fit all sizes, as they say.

 

[disprincesspatty]

I think anyone that truly needs a w/c or ecv should be able to use one. But i also think the law is going to need to be changed to stop people from abusing the situation. I am sure if people had to actually make a doctor's appt. and get a prescription for one, most of the people who didn't really need them wouldn't bother. I am sure there are overweight people using them that have other medical problems and still need them. I am also sure there are people who a doctor would refuse a Rx because they need to walk more.

 

[KPeveler]

My dr will not give me one, because I do not need one for everyday use. However, I would not be able to do the zoo or a long trip to the mall, or (heaven forbid) WDW, without special assistance.

I know people who are permanently disabled but do not need a chair except for once in a while. I have a chronic pain condition, which cannot be measured. I say if you need a chair, use it. Wheelchairs are not cheating.

I do not, however, appreciate people abusing other privileges, such as head of line privilege. If you cannot wait in the sun, or have an autistic child and you need to take advantage of the "good times" I understand. But if the line is accessible, don't try to talk your way into a GAC with head-of-line privileges. Don't use wheelchair seating if you are like me, and can stand just for the fireworks, or Illuminations. I can stand for a while, so I go to a normal location and sit until the show starts. I say save the seating for a person who can't stand at all.

 

[taximomfor4]

My dr will not give me one, because I do not need one for everyday use. However, I would not be able to do the zoo or a long trip to the mall, or (heaven forbid) WDW, without special assistance.

I know people who are permanently disabled but do not need a chair except for once in a while. I have a chronic pain condition, which cannot be measured. I say if you need a chair, use it. Wheelchairs are not cheating.

I do not, however, appreciate people abusing other privileges, such as head of line privilege. If you cannot wait in the sun, or have an autistic child and you need to take advantage of the "good times" I understand. But if the line is accessible, don't try to talk your way into a GAC with head-of-line privileges. Don't use wheelchair seating if you are like me, and can stand just for the fireworks, or Illuminations. I can stand for a while, so I go to a normal location and sit until the show starts. I say save the seating for a person who can't stand at all.

Good point. Anyway, GAC's don't give Head of the Line privileges anymore (not for the past several years at least), except I think for Make A Wish kids...so someone can try to talk the CMs into giving them one, but it's really wasting breath.

Beth

 

[DisOrBust]

Talk about judgemental now.

Originally Posted by DisOrBust View Post
I told the CM my dad could w/c transfer so we would not take a spot from someone else who could not. What happens? An able bodied family sits right down in h/c seating in front of us. My Mom who is also boiling at me for making my Dad transfer .

My father is 76yo with a VERY thick German accent combined with PArkinson's, which slows your speech. He defered to me when the CM couldn't understand him. I have been asked to "translate" many times from both my parents since Kindergarden. Now who is presuming???

I am so sorry I started this thread.

My points I was trying to make:

1: I thought that being a WDW vet and an RN that I knew "enough" that we could do well on this trip. This was my dads first trip since having brain surgery and we all felt ok going since it was WDW. We argued on renting a full time EVC/WC but my dad did not want to be a Burden" (his words) to his family getting it on and off the bus etc. I, trying to respect his decision, agreed thinking WDW is HC friendly, knowing there were comp. W/C etc. Now with hindsight I would have pushed much harder for an EVC MY POINT!!

2. There is HC abuse. It is frustrating when you see someone try so hard not to use assistive devices and others who could care less. It doesn't mater to them if someone in a WC can see or if you rented the EVC from someone who needed it. I am new to the whole "disablities" world and maybe you just get numb to it.

3. We as a nation are getting more obese and yes there are many reason but decreased physical activiy is one of them. I will still ask if we are really helping people but not enforcing some type of control or are we just enabling the condition. It effects everyone of us as our healthcare costs increase besides the whole humanity issue. I stand by having some sort of medical documentation a a point of entry into service to adequate medical care.

Here is great paper if anyone is interested.
http://www.nhpf.org/pdfs_bp/BP_Obesity_7-03.pdf


I wonder how many here think it is aweful that you have to have medical documentation for HC plates? I would also think that would be a burden to someone who legitmately needed them but hasen't seen an MD.

 

[LindsayDunn228]

Talk about judgemental now.


My father is 76yo with a VERY thick German accent combined with PArkinson's, which slows your speech. He defered to me when the CM couldn't understand him. I have been asked to "translate" many times from both my parents since Kindergarden. Now who is presuming???

You never said that so how were we supposed to know that?

Coming from someone who is disabled herself, it is infuriating to have someone speak to you through other people, addressing you to their spouse, etc. It's also insulting to speak for someone who can speak for themselves. That's all we were defending.

 

[pugdog]

Sue in MN,
So, what you're saying is that you'd rather see Disney stop renting ECVs in order to make a point about not showing a piece of paper? That's what I get from your posts.

I myself would rather have a little inconvenience than a big one, no matter what the ADA says. Again, this is an example of the law not being able to fit all sizes, as they say.

OK time for me to pipe in.
Where do you draw the line then emerymt to maintain the letter of the law for the ADA?
If your going to say that we need MD's notes for ECV's then your also saying that we need letters for hotel rooms, concert tickets, bulkhead seating on planes, being able to use rampvan taxis and anything else that would be considered handicapped. You can't just draw the line for ECV's.
Why should the burton of proof be placed on us?
In fact if you want to take it that way then let's have smokers get a MD's letter saying that they are addicted to nicotine and need that smoking room.

 

[hematite153]

However, whose walking speed?!

I am a native New Yorker. When I was healthier my normal walking speed was almost 6MPH because people learn to walk quickly in NYC.

Disney limits their rental ECVs to 2MPH. My personal one can go 4.5 MPH. I don't think Disney could control my speed.

I agree. I've been trying to figure out why people are so worried about ecvs "zipping" about when I can not only walk faster than most of them but can even push my DW faster in a wc. I'm Canadian and definitely didn't grow up in NY--I've never measured my walking speed but I guess I now know that it is faster than 2 mph. Hmmn...

 

[Schmeck]

I'm just trying to figure out the mentality behind the outrage that some people don't "deserve" to use ECVs and wheelchairs. Neither wheelchairs nor ECVs are strictly for the use of people with HP parking passes. Like I said before, if for some reason I want to use a wheelchair, I've not been able to find any legislation that says I can't. Please explain to me how having me in a wheelchair, one that I've paid for with my own money, infringes on someone else's rights.

I can't see how choosing to be in a wheelchair for no reason would be something I'd enjoy doing, as it certainly would be a very difficult thing to do - accessibility is still a work in progress, to put it politely - but right now, there is no legislation that I can find that says I can't buy myself an ECV or wheelchair or rent one either.

To those that point out regulations for guns, cigarettes, driving, etc, those are for safety and health reasons - to protect AGAINST those that cannot handle it safely. That's the complete opposite situation from someone using an ECV or wheelchair that doesn't have a need to use one.

 

[SueM in MN]

And, the last 3 posts are very good places to end this thread.