Star Wars: The Last Jedi - Reaction and Discussion *CONTAINS SPOILERS*

[SWRdtWD]

Funny in that I think Episode 3 is better each time I watch it (Christiansen is still tough to handle) but I think the high points of it are better than the high points of Jedi

But other than that we aren't that dissimilar

The bad acting and plot holes in 1 and 2 made 3 impossible to salvage.

"I've just learned an unfortunate truth...the chancellor is the Sith Lord"

Samuel L: "a Sith Lord????"


...that's scooby doo quality to me...

 

[umichigan10]

The bad acting and plot holes in 1 and 2 made 3 impossible to salvage.

"I've just learned an unfortunate truth...the chancellor is the Sith Lord"

Samuel L: "a Sith Lord????"


...that's scooby doo quality to me...

You forgot to add the Seinfeld theme in the background

 

[ShadeDK]

Back for my weekly musings in this thread:

1) Maybe someone else has mentioned it (I've tried to keep up), but I'd say that box office isn't Disney's main concern with TLJ. While the company has expectations and wants to see high numbers, the more important number is revenue from merchandising and licensing. No public info on that number, but estimates put the annual revenue from SW merchandising at around $5-6 billion. The movies keep the brand in the public consciousness and push new product. Of course, a bad movie can impact those sales - so Disney still wants a well-received film and would not want to see TLJ drag those numbers down. But looking at box office to predict Disney's reaction is only a small piece of the puzzle. Does box office relate to popularity? Probably. Does lower box office predict lower merchandise sales and licensing fees? Maybe. But on that question I'm more reluctant to focus on box office and more worried when the local stores pile all the SW items into their clearance bins.

2) I may be off-base here for general conversation, but I've thought that the OT storyline benefitted greatly from Lucas' obsession with comparative mythology and Joseph Campbell's work (the hero's journey and such). He wasn't telling a new story so much as repackaging myths in an interesting way - but it was a story that's been around in many different forms for a very long time and resonates. The PT didn't have that - and the new trilogy doesn't seem to either (perhaps Rey somewhat - but more as a copy of Luke). Not arguing the superiority of any of those over the other - just that, for me, it explains why the OT feels different than what's come later in terms of story.

 

[jknezek]

My ranking follows closely the last few and yes, each bracket is in order:

These are top shelf, pay extra, see it more than once, don't turn away when it's on cable type movies
Empire
A New Hope
Rogue One

These are satisfying Star Wars movies. Happy to have paid for the ticket and happy to watch them over at home with my kids. Probably flipping away at commercial if I see it on cable unless I'm bored
The Force Awakens
Return of the Jedi -- yes, I hate Ewoks that much, but the Jabba scenes have it more or less tied with TFA
Revenge of the Sith

These piss me off for one reason or another and I have little desire to watch them again though I have seen them all at least twice. If they are on cable I'd rather watch something else
The Last Jedi -- almost makes it up into the category above. There is definitely a gap between this and the next one, but I still have no real desire to see Luke ruined.
The Phantom Menace
Attack of the Clones

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

1) Maybe someone else has mentioned it (I've tried to keep up), but I'd say that box office isn't Disney's main concern with TLJ. While the company has expectations and wants to see high numbers, the more important number is revenue from merchandising and licensing.
.

I don’t see anyone lining up to buy crotchety old Luke action figures. I assume Obi Wan action figures did ok business back in the OT days. From a merchandising standpoint it wasn’t a smart characterization (not that I want to see all character decisions made with an eye to merch, but I’m guessing that’s part of the Disney equation).

I like your comments on mythology. I think that’s part of the appeal of Harry Potter too.

My ranking follows closely the last few and yes, each bracket is in order:

These are top shelf, pay extra, see it more than once, don't turn away when it's on cable type movies
Empire
A New Hope
Rogue One

My ranking is similar but I would switch ANH and R1 and RotS would be in my bottom category

 

[saskdw]

I'll ad my rankings for the mix.

1) Empire
2) New Hope
3) The Last Jedi (I may move this to the 2 spot, just haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet)
4) Rogue One
5) Force Awakens
6) Return of the Jedi
7) Revenge of the Sith
8) Phanton Menace
9) Attack of the Clones

 

[ShadeDK]

I don’t see anyone lining up to buy crotchety old Luke action figures. I assume Obi Wan action figures did ok business back in the OT days. From a merchandising standpoint it wasn’t a smart characterization (not that I want to see all character decisions made with an eye to merch, but I’m guessing that’s part of the Disney equation).

I'm with you - I'm not crazy about merchandising driving creative decisions but it is part of the equation (a trap that even Lucas increasingly ran into after he accidentally "invented" modern movie merchandising with the original Star Wars - the kid-friendly ewoks came under fire for pandering to toy sales). And I don't think it drives all decisions - but it's also not a coincidence that Force Friday is now a "thing" to push sales months before a movie's release. Of course it's not just action figures (although they still sell 20 million or so of those a year) - it's books, video games, Legos, clothing, home goods, electronics, school supplies, etc. I saw a Variety article noting that TFA generated nearly $300 million alone in consumable product licensing - i.e., putting BB-8 on mac and cheese boxes or the SW branded make-up line. Didn't realize it until a bit ago - but the SW films have made billions more on home video sales than their combined box office.

Which I guess is where I was really going. The box office discussion only goes so far with SW - because it's only a fraction of the SW media empire. If the merchandising stays strong, the box office numbers only tell part of the tale.

Although I did have to laugh at the Obi-Wan comment - him, the Emperor, Grand Moff Tarkin, Chancellor Valorum, Sio Bibble, Count Dooku, Uncle Owen, Senator Palpatine - these guys' action figures weren't making it onto many kids' "must-have" list even back then.

 

[umichigan10]

I'm with you - I'm not crazy about merchandising driving creative decisions but it is part of the equation (a trap that even Lucas increasingly ran into after he accidentally "invented" modern movie merchandising with the original Star Wars - the kid-friendly ewoks came under fire for pandering to toy sales). And I don't think it drives all decisions - but it's also not a coincidence that Force Friday is now a "thing" to push sales months before a movie's release. Of course it's not just action figures (although they still sell 20 million or so of those a year) - it's books, video games, Legos, clothing, home goods, electronics, school supplies, etc. I saw a Variety article noting that TFA generated nearly $300 million alone in consumable product licensing - i.e., putting BB-8 on mac and cheese boxes or the SW branded make-up line. Didn't realize it until a bit ago - but the SW films have made billions more on home video sales than their combined box office.

Which I guess is where I was really going. The box office discussion only goes so far with SW - because it's only a fraction of the SW media empire. If the merchandising stays strong, the box office numbers only tell part of the tale.

Although I did have to laugh at the Obi-Wan comment - him, the Emperor, Grand Moff Tarkin, Chancellor Valorum, Sio Bibble, Count Dooku, Uncle Owen, Senator Palpatine - these guys' action figures weren't making it onto many kids' "must-have" list even back then.

A chancellor valorum action figure is a must have so I can reenact the greatest vote of no confidence in cinema history

 

[pmaurer74]

mine too:

1) The Last Jedi (this will likely lose its rankings)
2) The Force Awakens/The Last Jedi
3) A New Hope
4) Empire Strikes back
5) Force Awakens
6) Phantom Menace
7) Attack of the Clones
8) Rogue One (only because I like happy endings)
9) Revenge of the Sith

 

[PrincessWithABlaster]

Which I guess is where I was really going. The box office discussion only goes so far with SW - because it's only a fraction of the SW media empire. If the merchandising stays strong, the box office numbers only tell part of the tale.

Although I did have to laugh at the Obi-Wan comment - him, the Emperor, Grand Moff Tarkin, Chancellor Valorum, Sio Bibble, Count Dooku, Uncle Owen, Senator Palpatine - these guys' action figures weren't making it onto many kids' "must-have" list even back then.

It is crazy how much money the merchandise makes. Modern movie era indeed.

Yes, Obi Wan was probably not first on any kid’s Christmas list, but I’m guessing that when the Han and Luke action figures sold out and parents bought the Obi Wan in desperation, it didn’t end up in the fire. The back of the closet, maybe ... but not the fire.

These days with people who were kids and suffering from nostalgia, there would be a market for Luke merchandise if he wasn’t such a mess (I might even buy a t-shirt of his image when he was projecting). If Disney doesn’t know that there are 40-something’s who would buy Star Wars items, they need to re-read the owners manual on this property they bought because they’re missing a few features.

 

[Iowamomof4]

My rankings:

1. Return of the Jedi (Saw it in the theater in 1983 - first one I was old enough to go to so it holds a lot of sentimental value)
2. A New Hope, Empire, The Last Jedi - I really can't rank these in any order here, I love them all!
5. The Force Awakens
6. Rogue One
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Attack of the Clones and The Phantom Menace are tied for last for me

 

[TomServo27]

I'll ad my rankings for the mix.

1) Empire
2) New Hope
3) The Last Jedi (I may move this to the 2 spot, just haven't been able to bring myself to do it yet)
4) Rogue One
5) Force Awakens
6) Return of the Jedi
7) Revenge of the Sith
8) Phanton Menace
9) Attack of the Clones

This would probably be my rankings also.

 

[skier_pete]

OK - I liked The Last Jedi a lot, but I have SUCH a hard time putting it in the rankings of movies that I've seen dozens if not hundreds of times. I've only seen TFA, Rogue One and TLJ once each, and really SHOULD rewatch them again, but amongst those three TLJ is the best. I tend to think I would put TLJ and Rogue One just below New Hope and Empire (I'm one of those weird people that thinks New Hope is the best SW movie.) and then TFA below RotJ, but again I feel I should see them more. The prequels are all so low down the list as to be laughable. I ended up seeing them repeatedly in the 2011-2013 timeframe when my daughter was into them, and they are terrible, terrible movies that only become more unimpressive with repeated viewings. (AotC fares the worst as I find that movie wholly unwatchable now, whereas I enjoy the podrace and the final lightsabre battle in TPM enough that I can rewatch those bits.)

One thought occurred to me. One of the main complaints amongst fans was the way Luke was portrayed - particularly that he had given up on saving the galaxy and resurrecting the Jedi.

What I don't get though is - isn't this really what TFA was setting up? In TFA - Luke had gone off on his own and not told anyone where he went. The only bit known was he had gone to the original Jedi temple, but no one knew where that was. He didn't leave ANY instructions like "Here's where I am if you need me!" So in TLJ Rey shows up, and Luke's behaving exactly the way we were told in the first movie - he doesn't want to be found and just wants to be left alone.

So my question for people that liked TFA and disliked/hate TLJ is this - did you hate this part in TFA as well? Or because TFA didn't really go into details it just didn't bother you. (Though TFA essentially told us that Kylo turned on his Jedi training, so it was consistent.)

 

[Dentam]

Just saw an ad for "Peter Rabbit" and the main actor is the same guy who plays General Hux. Wow, what a change of roles, lol!

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Just saw an ad for "Peter Rabbit" and the main actor is the same guy who plays General Hux. Wow, what a change of roles, lol!

He also played Bill Weasley in the Harry Potter films so he's had some different roles

 

[Dentam]

He also played Bill Weasley in the Harry Potter films so he's had some different roles

I've never seen him in anything else before. I need to watch the Harry Potter films this winter. Thinking of hitting Universal for a day during my September trip to see that area.

 

[SWRdtWD]

Just a box office update..

Made $23 mil in the us over its last chance at a good weekend (force awakens made $42)...made $28.7 in its first weekend in china...rogue one made 33 in its first day and $53 over the weekend.

Total gross is $573 domestic and 1.2 (surprisingly high...based on strong Western Europe) total.

The final tally will be less than 1.3...that's the upper limit. That is a minimum 37.5% drop from force awakens. Force awakens is an anomaly...for sure.

Is it this much of one? Far closer to rogue one...without the character recognition.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Want to hear a whackamole idea? Bring george back in on the creative side...nowhere near the budget or production. That's where he fails. Give him a story challenge...without any financial concerns.

I cannot condone that after Ep 1-3. I get the distinction between story/creative ability and the rest, but those were such train wrecks to me on so many levels — including some story — that I think his time ended (or should have) with OT. JMO.

I do wonder if they would have changed things had they known Fisher was going to die - as you indicate, plenty easy to adjust - just have her swap with Holdo and then have Luke did what he did, but then not become a Force Ghost, rather just still be alive on ahch-tu

I still maintain that once they found out she had passed away, they should have edited to keep Luke alive. So easy. Keep him sitting on that island at the end, edit out the little “Luke is dead” chat between Rey and Leia. Keep him for the final installment. I think it was a bad call not to adjust. Flat footed.

 

[MickeyMinnieMom]

Yes, Obi Wan was probably not first on any kid’s Christmas list, but I’m guessing that when the Han and Luke action figures sold out and parents bought the Obi Wan in desperation, it didn’t end up in the fire. The back of the closet, maybe ... but not the fire.

I still have mine. In my Darth Vader case. Hidden away from my kids.

 

[SWRdtWD]

I cannot condone that after Ep 1-3. I get the distinction between story/creative ability and the rest, but those were such train wrecks to me on so many levels — including some story — that I think his time ended (or should have) with OT. JMO.


I still maintain that once they found out she had passed away, they should have edited to keep Luke alive. So easy. Keep him sitting on that island at the end, edit out the little “Luke is dead” chat between Rey and Leia. Keep him for the final installment. Pretty obvious that a ghost won’t be the same. I think it was a bad call not to adjust. Flat footed.

I said crazy...didn't I? Understood.

As far as fisher...that was beyond a huge mistake...the could have used stock footage and body doubles to stage her shoving someone out of the airlock and pushing a button...

Also...since they bothered showing a hidden xwing...luke could have met the survivors on the falcon and led them to sanctuary after the ren deception...nothing had to change.

I think that's a catastrophic mistake...it's all on Kathy kennedy...some
Mistakes can't be undone