The star wars spoiler thread

So taking the basic story line...50% of the same jokes, and making updates copies/facsimiles of the same characters due to age doesn't qualify as a reboot to you? Not a little?

It's not like they dramatically blew up a planet of "good guys" in the middle or anything...

Seems like your parsing using technical points and note taking a realistic approach here...just my opinion.

Seriously... do you even know what a reboot is?? What happened was this: You saw some amateur journalist call it a reboot and you decided to be a copycat critic. All you've done is go on and on about how you hate the movie w/ providing inaccurate information by calling it a reboot. ITS NOT A REBOOT! If it was a reboot, it would erase all continuity from previous SW films, and start from scratch. This is a continuation of ROTJ 30 years later. If you're going to provide your 2 cents that's worth no more than a cup of coffee, do your homework and rethink your technique. You would be more accurate if you wanted to call it a rip off of A New Hope. I mean, I hate to be a pain the you know what here, but if I had a nickel for every post I've seen with you calling it a reboot, I could probably go make my own SW movie.

Sure it has a ton of similarities to A New Hope, probably way too many. I'll be the first to admit it. There were so many things I would have done differently to avoid the similarities. But at the end of the day its still a fun and enjoyable movie. The real SW fans can appreciate that. So get off of your high horse and either enjoy it or don't enjoy it, without ruining the excitement for others.
 
Seriously... do you even know what a reboot is?? What happened was this: You saw some amateur journalist call it a reboot and you decided to be a copycat critic. All you've done is go on and on about how you hate the movie w/ providing inaccurate information by calling it a reboot. ITS NOT A REBOOT! If it was a reboot, it would erase all continuity from previous SW films, and start from scratch. This is a continuation of ROTJ 30 years later. If you're going to provide your 2 cents that's worth no more than a cup of coffee, rethink your technique. You would be more accurate if you wanted to call it a rip off of A New Hope. I mean, I hate to be a pain the you know what here, but if I had a nickel for every post I've seen with you calling it a reboot, I could probably go make my own SW movie.

Sure it has a ton of similarities to A New Hope, probably way too many. I'll be the first to admit it. There were so many things I would have done differently to avoid the similarities. But at the end of the day its still a fun and enjoyable movie. The real SW fans can appreciate that. So get off of your high horse and either enjoy it or don't enjoy it, without ruining the excitement for others.

Seriously? You're coming at me with the fanboy geek juice?

You have no need to tell me about Star Wars and the history and backstory. Thanks...but completely unnecessary.

Ease up...I don't care what any critics said...I saw it 3 times and analyzed it 100 times in my head. As others have said - "reboot" probably isn't the right word...I like "bootquel"...or perhaps even "reset"

It's a reset to me...as they didn't repeat the EXACT same story as Star Wars...but there intent pretty clearly was to try and reset the tone and build out a new fanbase more closely In tune with the original three movies than that crazy George nonsense...

You're lying to yourself if you think that wasn't their intent. It was about repairing the damage that was perceived - even if exaggerated - and laying the foundations for Disney marketing plans with moving forward.

Now...I'm sure there will be many similarities with 8 and 9 to empire moving forward...but I also think there won't be this obsession with secrecy and style points as there was this time.
 
Seriously? You're coming at me with the fanboy geek juice?

You have no need to tell me about Star Wars and the history and backstory. Thanks...but completely unnecessary.

Ease up...I don't care what any critics said...I saw it 3 times and analyzed it 100 times in my head. As others have said - "reboot" probably isn't the right word...I like "bootquel"...or perhaps even "reset"

It's a reset to me...as they didn't repeat the EXACT same story as Star Wars...but there intent pretty clearly was to try and reset the tone and build out a new fanbase more closely In tune with the original three movies than that crazy George nonsense...

You're lying to yourself if you think that wasn't their internet. It was about repairing the damage that was perceived - even if exaggerated - and laying the foundations for Disney marketing plans with moving forward.

Now...I'm sure there will be many similarities with 8 and 9 to empire moving forward...but I also think there won't be this obsession with secrecy and style points as there was this time.

Awww what's wrong? You can dish it out but you can't take it? Call it fanboy geek juice or call it somebody finally putting you in your place, I really don't care.

Don't tell me I have no need to tell you about SW history and backstory when all you've done is preach your hatred towards the movie w/ inaccurate statements. THAT is completely unnecessary.

Call it a reset, a repeat, whatever.. That's fine. Those are more accurate statements. I already said I agree with the fact that there are way too similarities to ANH. So many things I'd change, but don't go from post to post preaching the word reboot. You are clearly empty-headed on what a reboot even is.
 
Awww what's wrong? You can dish it out but you can't take it? Call it fanboy geek juice or call it somebody finally putting you in your place, I really don't care.

Don't tell me I have no need to tell you about SW history and backstory when all you've done is preach your hatred towards the movie w/ inaccurate statements. THAT is completely unnecessary.

Call it a reset, a repeat, whatever.. That's fine. Those are more accurate statements. I already said I agree with the fact that there are way too similarities to ANH. So many things I'd change, but don't go from post to post preaching the word reboot. You are clearly empty-headed on what a reboot even is.

I see no problem with calling the movie a reboot. Most movie people would tell you that when you reset the entire Star Wars world past episode 6 that was previously cannon (created with Lucas's blessing by authors Alston, Zahn, Stackpole, etc) and now call it "legends", you have done the same soft reboot that Superman Returns did (when it ignored everything after Superman 2, but it kept 1-2 as cannon). It's a reboot, just a "soft" one. The episode 7 movie makers didn't want to be bogged down with the post-movie world created, so they rebooted the universe back to episode 6 and wrote from there...and tweaked a lot of the pieces that had been in the post movie universe to serve their own purposes (so they wouldn't have to pay the authors for them)...

Most movie people will also tell you that the word with the most negative connotation to people is "reboot" so they try to avoid it like the plague, especially when it's in fan-driven universes (apparently, rabid fans hate reboots the most:)...
 
I see no problem with calling the movie a reboot. Most movie people would tell you that when you reset the entire Star Wars world past episode 6 that was previously cannon (created with Lucas's blessing by authors Alston, Zahn, Stackpole, etc) and now call it "legends", you have done the same soft reboot that Superman Returns did (when it ignored everything after Superman 2, but it kept 1-2 as cannon). It's a reboot, just a "soft" one. The episode 7 movie makers didn't want to be bogged down with the post-movie world created, so they rebooted the universe back to episode 6 and wrote from there...and tweaked a lot of the pieces that had been in the post movie universe to serve their own purposes (so they wouldn't have to pay the authors for them)...

Most movie people will also tell you that the word with the most negative connotation to people is "reboot" so they try to avoid it like the plague, especially when it's in fan-driven universes (apparently, rabid fans hate reboots the most:)...

I see your point, and to some degree I would agree with you. My only issue is, the over use of calling it a reboot with the idea that it actually is a reboot. Lets face it, its no secret, this isn't the first time on the internet somebody called it a reboot. However, it seems like once the first review of somebody calling it a reboot came out, a lot of others came out and called it a reboot, when most those are just playing follow the leader, without even knowing a reboot actually is.

Btw... The Dark Knight series, Amazing-Spiderman.... al great reboots:)
 
LOL. Can we really say ******* on here? I'll have to keep that in mind:)

And you're probably right. I might be making a big deal out of nothing, but I'm just sick of the overuse of the word "reboot" when its not.

I've used it before and haven't been called out on it. Still I may end up with points and a warning. Wouldn't be the first time.

Look, I think people get far too worked up about reboots. The negativity associated with the word is disproportionate. I also don't entirely agree with LockedoutLogic's assessment of the movie. But, he's clearly a fan of the franchise and his position is well thought out. He's not just randomly slamming it. He's actually doing a better job of articulating what I've heard other people complain about TFA.

On another board someone went after me for calling it a "sort of reset". People get way too attached to narrow definitions instead of looking at the point behind the word.
 
A better choice of words might be, "a fine movie, a great sequel but with some unfortunate lapses into self-plagiarism".

More interesting are the speculations as to WHY they felt the need to blatantly copy some settings and plot elements.

George Lucas lamely explained during the p*****ls that when he ripped off himself it was because the films were "rhyming".

So people around here have been speculating that the more recent plagiarism was partly from fear of screwing up if they failed to duplicate the winning formula of the middle trilogy. Plus a dollop of cynicism that there's a whole new generation of fans who won't give a hoot since the middle trilogy was their parents' Star Wars not theirs. And they've only seen the crapified special editions anyways, if that.

Is there really much room for argument in that? There should be no disagreement over the fact of the "rhymed" elements, but you can disagree over why it was done and how much it detracted from the film.

The why and wherefore is speculation, the qualitative aspect is a matter of personal taste ...
 
The why and wherefore is speculation, the qualitative aspect is a matter of personal taste ...

It strikes me there are basically two camps. Those who see it as: copying = unoriginal = lack of imagination and those who see it as more of a creative choice to rhyme/echo (pick your word of choice) the original movie.
 
On a lighter note... $10 mil this weekend. 895 US, 1983 mil international. Likely gets to 900 US and limps past $2 bill this week.
 
It's a property that clearly still has value.

Now comes the questions. Star Wars plus Animated shows plus a ride plus weekends was a hit.

What happens with Star Wars, spinoff movies, animated shows, and a whole land? How much can it handle?

Personally I think every movie can't be one of the Top 5 all time. They are bound to have a 400-500 mil, $1 billion movie soon. The spinoffs might even be $300 mil movies. But all in all I think they are safe and will continue to drive interest.

I do have 1 question - can they find a new villain?
Darth Maul? Emperor? Inquisitor? Seventh Sister? Count Dooku?
They need an iconic villain or they'll be stuck in one era and run out of stories. They have to make Kylo Ren work. He has to morph into something more than he is. A balance of power and intimidation but not so bad that people don't like him and kids run away. Vader was a very interesting bad guy - a likable bad guy that was truly bad. Intimidating, iconic, unique and likable. Hard to create that - it kinda just happens.
 
Awww what's wrong? You can dish it out but you can't take it? Call it fanboy geek juice or call it somebody finally putting you in your place, I really don't care.

Don't tell me I have no need to tell you about SW history and backstory when all you've done is preach your hatred towards the movie w/ inaccurate statements. THAT is completely unnecessary.

Call it a reset, a repeat, whatever.. That's fine. Those are more accurate statements. I already said I agree with the fact that there are way too similarities to ANH. So many things I'd change, but don't go from post to post preaching the word reboot. You are clearly empty-headed on what a reboot even is.

I've been accused of many things around here...many have actually been true ;)

But not forming my own opinions and and not being informed isn't really on the list.

That was some circus show stuff you dished out there...well played if that was your goal.

As far as what I "can't take"...nobody has ever gotten close.

I'll stand on my one core criticism of the film - that is was too safe as a setup for an unending stream of follow ups...and low and behold stock scared Silly bob Iger admitted that this week, who'da thunk it? - and that they used elements that really couldn't be objected to by the old fan base. Harrison ford taking a gigantic check as a payoff doesn't classify as "bold"...

But overall...I liked the movie. I think it was a necessary - if safe - thing that makes a lot of business sense.

I also expect more from rian Johnson. I'm a fan - I do. But all fans should.

So there's the line...ill be there till December 2017. Open for business.

Don't preach. I honestly Don't really care to get some pocket Spielberg take on what Merriam Webster definition you use for reboot.

Star Trek was a "reboot", right? Except very little of what was in the movie was ever shown before...it was key concepts with new angles put around it. Gee...that seems kinda familiar. But I won't compare too much...different directors and all...

The force awakens is many things...but "original" is a stretch. It was a solid new Star Wars movie. It's made a ton of cash. And I will never have to go 16 years in pre internet world without hearing a mention of the words "star" and "wars" in the same sentence again...

So....???? Go back and quote my "hatred"...I guess?
Just once...enlighten me.
 
On a lighter note... $10 mil this weekend. 895 US, 1983 mil international. Likely gets to 900 US and limps past $2 bill this week.

It would have been nice to get past titanic...which I always thought was a pile of nothing that looked really cool (a James Cameron trademark)...but it's not meant to be
 
I hate to be that guy but could we be a little nicer and use friendlier language. Any further doings will result in warnings.

Come on...this one was a hatchet job. When you make up tone that never existed and then go mud slinging...that's what happens.
 
I read nothing advertised as spoilers….

but not a single thing happened that i hadn't contemplated some way/form at some point over the last two years.

It really all went according to a fairly simple plan with easily noticed motivations behind it.

NOW…i'll say this - i understand their approach/resistance to using the "good" star wars as a basis for park construction. It makes a ton more sense now.

Sheesh. Once again I have to clean up LOLs mess. :D :D

This was LOLs first post after seeing the movie in this thread. His take that it was safe is already well formed. The fact that others picked up on it is irrelevant. Here's evidence that he didn't pick that thought up from critics.

So can we move on with dissecting how it's like the other two $2 billion dollar movies in history and a complete mess that'll be forgotten soon??? popcorn:::rotfl2:
 
I've been accused of many things around here...many have actually been true ;)

But not forming my own opinions and and not being informed isn't really on the list.

That was some circus show stuff you dished out there...well played if that was your goal.

As far as what I "can't take"...nobody has ever gotten close.

I'll stand on my one core criticism of the film - that is was too safe as a setup for an unending stream of follow ups...and low and behold stock scared Silly bob Iger admitted that this week, who'da thunk it? - and that they used elements that really couldn't be objected to by the old fan base. Harrison ford taking a gigantic check as a payoff doesn't classify as "bold"...

But overall...I liked the movie. I think it was a necessary - if safe - thing that makes a lot of business sense.

I also expect more from rian Johnson. I'm a fan - I do. But all fans should.

So there's the line...ill be there till December 2017. Open for business.

Don't preach. I honestly Don't really care to get some pocket Spielberg take on what Merriam Webster definition you use for reboot.

Star Trek was a "reboot", right? Except very little of what was in the movie was ever shown before...it was key concepts with new angles put around it. Gee...that seems kinda familiar. But I won't compare too much...different directors and all...

The force awakens is many things...but "original" is a stretch. It was a solid new Star Wars movie. It's made a ton of cash. And I will never have to go 16 years in pre internet world without hearing a mention of the words "star" and "wars" in the same sentence again...

So....???? Go back and quote my "hatred"...I guess?
Just once...enlighten me.

I've had a nice, restful sleep since all this... So here it goes..

HA! Circus show stuff? I don't know how many circuses you've been to but usually the actual performance itself provides a bit more excitement. IMHO, our little debate was more of a county fair. Thanks anyway, I'm flattered. ;)

Maybe... just maybe quoting your "hatred" towards the film might have been a bit too strong? I obviously struck a nerve in doing so. Almost as strong as using the term reboot in a negative context. How about this... what if I use the phrase "disdain in certain areas of the film"... would that more accurately apply?

We could sit here all week and dissect this. But what good would that do? At the end of the day you and I aren't the ones running to the bank 2 billion dollars richer. Like I said, I've slept on this since and I assume you have, as well. (If not, then I truly am flattered). So here's my disdain: The overuse of the word "reboot" to slice and dice the film apart. And hey, don't jump to conclusions, I'm not necessarily blaming you for it, I'm blaming other sources that have seemed to scattered across the internet. Even YOU have to admit, there's a lot of amateur journalists out there who blogged the term reboot and have no idea what a reboot even is, they just read it from another amateur critic and played along. Obviously, and I will take blame for this, I was probably wrong about the context you used the term reboot. Rethinking it, you obviously used it as a tool to describe the over similarities to ANH. I use the word similarities like you use the word reboot. Ex: Starkiller Base = 3rd death star, Jakku = Tatooine, etc. Here's another that's just my own personal opinion that I haven't read anywhere else: The bar scene in Maz Kanata's castle? A lot like the scene in Mos Eisley Cantina. And those are just some.. a lot of the jokes, dialogue, etc. are derived from those of ANH. As much as I hate to say it I could write a book about it, you could probably write a novel.

So there. I agree with that you on that aspect. There are way too many references to ANH, and I will also agree with the fact that it was more of an attempt to rescue the franchise's fanbase. But the only thing I will disagree with is, at the end of the day, I still think its an original story. As you well know, these episodes are the story of the Skywalkers (Even Mr. Lucas himself has said so many times). So that's what we're getting: A third Skywalker story. Even if its way too much like A New Hope, we're getting new characters, new places, a new story. And I think Rian Johnson will do a better job than JJ.

Either way, however you want to view it...we're all entitled to our opinion and that's why we are here. And it was a great film. We can't deny that. Even YOU (of all people) admitted it and that's exactly why you flocked to see it not once, not twice....three times.
 
I've had a nice, restful sleep since all this... So here it goes..

HA! Circus show stuff? I don't know how many circuses you've been to but usually the actual performance itself provides a bit more excitement. IMHO, our little debate was more of a county fair. Thanks anyway, I'm flattered. ;)

Maybe... just maybe quoting your "hatred" towards the film might have been a bit too strong? Almost as strong as using the term reboot in a negative context. How about this... what if I use the phrase "disdain in certain areas of the film"... would that more accurately apply?

We could sit here all week and dissect this. But what good would that do? At the end of the day you and I aren't the ones running to the bank 2 billion dollars richer. Like I said, I've slept on this since and I assume you have, as well. (If not, then I truly am flattered). So here's my disdain: The overuse of the word "reboot" to slice and dice the film apart. And hey, don't jump to conclusions, I'm not necessarily blaming you for it, I'm blaming other sources that have seemed to scattered across the internet. Even YOU have to admit, there's a lot of amateur journalists out there who blogged the term reboot and have no idea what a reboot even is, they just read it from another amateur critic and played along. Obviously, and I will take blame for this, I was probably wrong about the context you used the term reboot. Rethinking it, you obviously used it as a tool to describe the over similarities to ANH. I use the word similarities like you use the word reboot. Ex: Starkiller Base = 3rd death star, Jakku = Tatooine, etc. Here's another that's just my own personal opinion that I haven't read anywhere else: The bar scene in Maz Kanata's castle? A lot like the scene in Mos Eisley Cantina. And those are just some.. a lot of the jokes, dialogue, etc. are derived from those of ANH. As much as I hate to say it I could write a book about it, you could probably write a novel.

So there. I agree with that you on that aspect. There are way too many references to ANH, and I will also agree with the fact that it was more of an attempt to rescue the franchise's fanbase. But the only thing I will disagree with is, at the end of the day, I still think its an original story. As you well know, these episodes are the story of the Skywalkers (Even Mr. Lucas himself has said so many times). So that's what we're getting: A third Skywalker story. Even if its way too much like A New Hope, we're getting new characters, new places, a new story. And I think Rian Johnson will do a better job than JJ.

Either way, however you want to view it...we're all entitled to our opinion and that's why we are here. And it was a great film. We can't deny that. Even YOU (of all people) admitted it and that's exactly why you flocked to see it not once, not twice....three times.
Why don't you both let it go or take it offline. Really taking away from the boards here
 
Why don't you both let it go or take it offline. Really taking away from the boards here

LOL. You obviously didn't read my reply in its entirety . Letting it go is exactly what I'm doing here. I admitted I was probably wrong and took full blame for it, and even shining some light on the subject. Is that not okay with you?
 

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