To Tip or not to Tip?

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954


Just curious ... when did giving someone a gratuity (tip) become mandatory? These people are paid wages to perform a service. The gratuity is, at least for me, a way of saying thank you for exceptional service. Disney is their employer, I am the GUEST. They are there to serve me, but I am not there to pay them.

If you don't want to tip them, don't use their services.

Anne

 

[Lewisc]

Cheap people are looking to justify their actions. The 36,000 figure was for a bellhop in Vegas not Disney. The fact is people in tipped positions are paid less than normal wages (frequently less than minimum wage).
loriencke You're expecting the person carrying your bags to carry them for free. IT'S THAT SIMPLE. YOUR TIP IS HOW HE GETS PAID FOR CARRYING YOUR BAGS. The fact that other people tip enough so the person doesn't starve is irrelevant.
One of the brochures Disney gives you in check in lists the tipped positions. Incidently housekeeping IS NOT ONE of them, cetainly tip for superior service but in the case of housekeeping tips are an "extra".

 

[polyfan]

ducklite- that might be where you live, but it is not here- I am a teacher- special educattion with a masters degree, and also get paid a a child study coordinator and my contract for this year will be $39,995. Policemen here start at $28,000, beginning teacher is $30,000. These are actual facts.

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by loriencke
ducklite- that might be where you live, but it is not here- I am a teacher- special educattion with a masters degree, and also get paid a a child study coordinator and my contract for this year will be $39,995. Policemen here start at $28,000, beginning teacher is $30,000. These are actual facts.

I'd move. Receptionists with a high school diploma and two years work experience make over $30k around here.

But that's here nor there. If you have the money to take a vacation, and accept a "service" from someone, you should tip them accordingly. If you do not want the service, or do not want to tip for it, simply decline it. Housekeeping is not a service. you can't really clean your own room. But baggage handling is a service, as is being served at a full service restaurant, valet parking your car, etc.

Anne

 

[milmore104]

To ducklite,
I think your not taking into consideration that where you live people might start out at a good salary but here where I live Teachers start at $18,000 & Police officers start at $21,000.
And I thought that the government had a MIN. wage that employers had to pay there employees. Isn't that why it's a MIN. wage?
I am not a cheap person and I am not making excuses for why I don't want to tip someone! I 'm just trying to say why should I feel obligated to tip someone for there job. Exspecially if they don't go out of there way for me!

 

[beattyfamily]

Here's my opinion/take on it...

We're tippers. We tip all the discussed positions, even housekeeping...always have.

It's just customary. At all non-WDW hotels I've stayed at there are even envelopes provided for the housekeeping person. I never thought that you wouldn't tip them (except for poor service) until I started reading these wdw mousekeeping tipping threads.

BUT, I'm like a lot of you and get frustrated (even though I do plan ahead for most of this) with the tipping of each person that touches our bags! There's the person at the airport that checks the bags. Then we usually get our own bags and load them in the car. Then there's the person that unloads them at WDW but sometimes we avoid them and bring them ourselves to where they store them. Then we don't tip until they are delivered to our room. But at some resorts (especially Universal) they can get pushy and there's a person who unloads and then the bellhop. That's the only thing that can sometimes bug me. The person that unloads it should either be the valet parker or the bellhop and no in between person.

There that's all I have to say!

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by Eeyore1954


Just curious ... when did giving someone a gratuity (tip) become mandatory? These people are paid wages to perform a service. The gratuity is, at least for me, a way of saying thank you for exceptional service. Disney is their employer, I am the GUEST. They are there to serve me, but I am not there to pay them.

NO TIPS ARE WHAT PAYS THEM TO FURNISH THE SERVICE. It's been that way forever. The wages are below scale (and in some cases below minimum wage) Disney tells you in the resort brochure which positions are tipped positions so you know who you are responsible for paying.
I'm curious, did you not know that the primary source of income is tips or are you just trying to rationalize saving a few dollars at the expensive of someone else?

 

[MHopkins2]

I am not a cheap person and I am not making excuses for why I don't want to tip someone! I 'm just trying to say why should I feel obligated to tip someone for there job. Exspecially if they don't go out of there way for me!

Certainly, the *amount* of your tip should increase or decrease based on the level of service you receive. However, the basic point is this: you "should feel obligated to tip someone for doing their job" because that is how they are paid. The company they work for does not supply the majority of their income, their customers do. Whether or not you feel this is fair - to you or the employee - is sadly irrelevant. If you use their service, you have to pay them for it, in the form of a tip.

This principle, of course, applies only to officially "tipped" positions - which does include bellhops in addition to waitstaff. Mousekeepers are not a tipped position, so by all means, if you don't feel the service has been "above and beyond," and you don't choose to tip, don't. But for the tipped positions, a tip is not optional. Period. You use the service, you give a tip. (With an exception for poor service, of course.)

I'm not trying to come off like a snothead, but seriously, I don't understand why this is such a thorny issue.

 

[polyfan]

Mousekeeping aside- just baggge handlers, bellmen, valet, etc.--
I don't think anyone is trying to justify not tipping. Iwould like to think that everyone does tip. The question comes about when so many people are touching your bags, as to who really should be getting the tip, and when. It will always be a matter of personal opinion, but many people come to these boards for suggestions as to how others handle it. It really does get annoying when someone is standing there with their hand out, and they really haven't done anything, but move a bag 2 feet away from you. We had a guy at the airport as I was putting the bag up on the stand, take it out of my hand and set it down. My husband was parking the truck, and just walked up, the guy started talking tohim about being a tipped position. so, he gave him a tip. It was nothing , I had the bag in hand, and didn't need him to take it way. I thought he was just being nice and helping a women, he was just looking to make a buck. If I would have realized that I would have said no thankyou, I can do it. It was a matter of lifting it 2 feet. Sorry so long. My point, it's not about whether to tip, but where does it start and end.

 

[milmore104]

I htink this is a big "thorny" issue because most people including myself had no idea that tipping was how bellboys got paid! I was under the impression that they recieved a salary and tips. I do use the service and I do tip everyone who touches our bags $10 each. I normally have three bags that I let them carry. My DH and I carry the rest which is usually 4 bags and our DD and her stroller! My point is that I feel it is rude for the bellboy to have his hand out and waiting for a tip as he throws down my last bag! I don't think I should feel obligated to tip someone. But now that I've found out that this is how they get paid I will not feel obligated to tip them but to use their service and pay them for it!
I have been to WDW many times and never got a list of "tipped" positions!

 

[Lewisc]

Originally posted by loriencke
Mousekeeping aside- just baggge handlers, bellmen, valet, etc.--
I We had a guy at the airport as I was putting the bag up on the stand, take it out of my hand and set it down.

Curbside checkin is done by skycaps. That is a tipped position regardless if you put the bag on the stand or if they help you. The alternative is to take your bag inside to the counter and wait on line.
I agree it's confusing at the hotel when your'e not sure which employees pool their tips.

milmore104--I've always seen the list of tip guidelines in the resort newsletter/newspaper you get when you checkin.

 

[Eeyore1954]

Originally posted by Lewisc

NO TIPS ARE WHAT PAYS THEM TO FURNISH THE SERVICE. It's been that way forever. The wages are below scale (and in some cases below minimum wage) Disney tells you in the resort brochure which positions are tipped positions so you know who you are responsible for paying.
I'm curious, did you not know that the primary source of income is tips or are you just trying to rationalize saving a few dollars at the expensive of someone else?

Huh?? I think you are reading more into what I said than is there.
Maybe Merriam-Webster can help out:

Main Entry: gra·tu·ity
Pronunciation: gr&-'tü-&-tE, -'tyü-
Function: noun
Inflected Form(s): plural -ities
Date: 1540
: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : TIP

Notice the word voluntarily. A gratuity is not an obligation and I have a hard time understanding when it became such. Using the terms "usual and customary" leave people with the implication that a gratuity is required, when it is never required.

To clarify for you and Anne, I do not use bellmen; I am perfectly capable of carrying my own luggage. IF I chose to use them, I would probably tip $1 per bag as a GRATUITY, not as WAGES. Again, their employer is Disney, not me.

I usually tip restaurant servers 15 - 20% depending on quality of service, but again I do not feel obligated to leave 1 dime if the service was poor, slow, etc.

I usually tip valets; I always tip Mousekeepers; I often throw tips in the jar at Starbucks (but for what reason I don't know!).

My one and only point is that gratuities are voluntary. I couldn't care less how much or how little a valet, bellman, waitperson, bartender, etc. makes. My trips to Disney are not designed to supplement their income. If they are not satisfied with their salary, they should look for work elsewhere.

 

[MHopkins2]

I htink this is a big "thorny" issue because most people including myself had no idea that tipping was how bellboys got paid!

Milmore, I wasn't referring to folks like you who just didn't know that bellhops are a tipped position, and hence didn't tip them unless there was "above and beyond" service. (Which I realize isn't your case, anyway, as you tipped even when you didn't know that's how they were paid.)

I'm talking more to those who *know* that people work for tips, and yet still somehow feel it's optional, or only appropriate when something "special" is done. I'm mystified by that theory, to be honest!

 

[Disneydenise]

Ducklite do you really want everyone moving to North Jersey? I think it is quite densely populated as it is now. Teachers starting salary today is a range from $27,000-$32,000. I am central Jersey. I never got a tip from a student. I do get some lovely gifts from parents and I think that it is wonderful to be thought of so generously. Teaching is a service and a vocation. It is stressful and rewarding. Bellman is a non- stress job. Big dilema, can I be pleasant and speak politely. Explain to me how this equates to $3.00 a bag. Disney is a family resort many families are stuggling to be there for 5 days so $1 a bag seems fine in my opinion. If they aren't personable then tough for them because that is how you earn tips on your personality.

 

[dandave]

$36,000-$$44,000!!! Geez, I'm gonna be a bellman (errr, bellwoman), when I grow up! My DH has a Master's in mathematics. He just left a teaching career with a university in GA. He was an Assistant Professor, with over nine years of experience. After nine years his base salary was only $36,500.... That's why we moved to Florida. The DOD pays much better!

 

[ducklite]

Originally posted by Disneydenise
Ducklite do you really want everyone moving to North Jersey? I think it is quite densely populated as it is now. Teachers starting salary today is a range from $27,000-$32,000. I am central Jersey. I never got a tip from a student. I do get some lovely gifts from parents and I think that it is wonderful to be thought of so generously. Teaching is a service and a vocation. It is stressful and rewarding. Bellman is a non- stress job. Big dilema, can I be pleasant and speak politely. Explain to me how this equates to $3.00 a bag. Disney is a family resort many families are stuggling to be there for 5 days so $1 a bag seems fine in my opinion. If they aren't personable then tough for them because that is how you earn tips on your personality.

First off, I am in Central NJ as well. And no, I don't want everyone moving here. That's not the point. The point is that just because people only make "X" in "this area", doesn't meant that they can live on the same "X" in another area. You couldn't live on $40,000 and support a family in my area. Regardless of what many might think, Central Florida is NOT an inexpensive area to live in.

I also never said to tip $3 a bag (that was someone else). I think that's more than generous, unless it is the only bag, it's a steamer trunk, and it weighs 95 lbs. Then more than $3 would be aprropriate I'm a buck a bag person, less if they do a rotten job, more if they perform some special service on top of handling the bags.

I just feel that if you utilize the service of someone who rely's on tips as the substantial part oftheir income, you are obligated to tip them. If you don't want to tip them, or can't afford to tip them, you shouldn't use them. No one MAKES you use them. You can politely decline assistance.

Anne

 

[Lewisc]

Steve:

Originally posted by Eeyore1954

: something given voluntarily or beyond obligation usually for some service; especially : TIP

Notice the word voluntarily. A gratuity is not an obligation and I have a hard time understanding when it became such. Using the terms "usual and customary" leave people with the implication that a gratuity is required, when it is never required.

My one and only point is that gratuities are voluntary. I .

Steve--an alternate definintion also from Merriam-Webster

gift or a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated

no mentioin of voluntary. Tipping a non-tipped position is voluntary, tipping a tipped positions is really compensation for services rendered. I agree a tip is voluntary in the sense that you won't go to jail if you fail to tip. My point is THE TIP IS THE FORM OF COMPENSATION for tipped positions and it is wrong to expect someone to work for free.In many cases the valet doesn't even work for the hotel or restaurant.
Your actions really support my position. I just get annoyed at people who try to justify doing the wrong thing.

 

[las3888]

Well put, eeyore1954!

The point I was trying to make is that most of us know that having to tip a bell-boy is 'the way of the world', I just don't really feel it should be that way. I think they should be paid a fair salary for what they do, and if they do something extra-helpful for somebody, then perhaps a tip should be given. Same as front desk personnel. Their job is to check you in. You have no alternative. You are using their services, and as we have all read on the boards and experienced ourselves, there are those who do an outstanding job, and others who leave a lot to be desired at the front desk.

For those who might think 'cheap people are looking for a way to justify their actions', quite contrary. My DH and I are probably some of the best tippers we know. We are not cheap by any means, and I actually feel that most people who continually stay at Disney are not generally cheap people, seeing as there are many other inexpensive alternatives. There is just a certain frustration of spending money on something that is in my opinion is not worthy (i.e., moving a bag from trunk to baggage cart). The problem is, there isn't really an alternative. For us do-it-yourselfers, do they provide a luggage cart for us to transport our bags to our rooms by ourselves? It is unheard of. Unless you want to make several unrealistic trips, as ducklite has suggested, which would cause probably a lot of frustration and embarrassment, especially because in many places, bellmen will not let you park your car in front of the lobby for very long, people really do not have an alternative.

Also, ducklite, please remember those that have small children that have to pack diapers, bottles, formula, etc. not to mention clothing and personal items. While some people surely overpack, not everybody with a lot of gear is necessarily guilty of that. I am not defending myself, because it is only DH and myself with zero kids, and we pack to the point where we can manage our bags completely on our own.

As far as the salary issue goes, I have a dear friend who works the front desk at the GF. His annual salary full-time is close to $16,000. He is not allowed to accept tips. I feel his services are more valuable than a bellperson's. If somebody is making more than that as a bellperson, I don't feel I need to supplement their income a whole lot.

 

[Lewisc]

If you pack so much stuff that you need help you should be prepared to pay the person who helps you and not expect them to work for free. The fact that you don't have a legal obligation to pay doesn't change the point--Should they be working for free?
Maybe the luggage people should be a salaried position or maybe there should be definite charge but that's not the way it is.
Check the operative definition of tip:

a sum of money tendered for a service performed or anticipated

Most of the people in this thread seem to either tip or hadn't realized that the tip was the major source of compensation. I've seen others who are just cheap.

For the value and moderate resorts there is no reason you can't check in, move your car and move your own luggage. Generally people staying in a deluxe (with more than a bag or two) WANT HELP with their luggage but you can decline or even self-park your car before you check in.

 

[las3888]

I wouldn't really consider not tipping for services rendered to bellhops, but why should I pay for their services to move my bags, when it is their job? Why do I not tip for the services of the front desk people, the guard who checks my parking pass as I go through the gate, the people who work in the shops, the people taking my order at the counter service, the person I rent a bicycle from, or the lifeguard? These people are all performing their duties, plus not getting paid a whole heck of a lot. I just don't think that using a bellhop should be differentiated from these other service jobs.

Trust me when I tell you that my friend who works front desk at GF tells me of the bellhops that he knows get paid a GREAT deal more money than he. The job is a much sought after job for that reason, and it is very difficult to get. I, in the end, just don't feel the position is justified to get paid all that much money. It takes very little to no skill at all. Sorry...

Here is yet another definition of gratuity from Webster's NewWorld Dictionary:

a gift of money, etc. etc., esp. for a service