Transgender bathrooms

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cjbcam

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Sep 22, 2013
If the doors and walls are floor to ceiling and no cracks for peering eyes I would have no problem if all sexes used all bathrooms. But with the huge gaps and such it's already embarrassing enough to have to change your tampon in the ladies bathroom. My teen girls would be so embarrassed to be in the stalls they have in most bathrooms and having boys in there classes be able to peek at them.
 

Westcoastwild

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Jul 26, 2016
If the doors and walls are floor to ceiling and no cracks for peering eyes I would have no problem if all sexes used all bathrooms. But with the huge gaps and such it's already embarrassing enough to have to change your tampon in the ladies bathroom. My teen girls would be so embarrassed to be in the stalls they have in most bathrooms and having boys in there classes be able to peek at them.
That perspective I do understand. I like that those gaps don't seem to be common in Europe. And I've used a diva cup in the past, and I have trouble washing that out with any kind of witnesses, even if they're female. Even if it's my best friend or sister.

But on the other hand, again, it's back to actions. Anyone peering through those cracks knows that's inappropriate. (Except possibly the toddler who sticker her head under the stall door once At fort wilderness. The noise I made was more than a little embarrassing. But I'm pretty sure the mother was more embarrassed than I was)
 
  • Branflakes

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    Jan 15, 2014
    Like encourages them to use a public restroom as a hunting ground? Um, no. I find that ridiculous. For one thing, pedophilia, or even rape, is not about gender- it's about power. So, let's pretend for a moment that public restroom is a plausible place to attack a kid (it's not). A male predator could go into the men's restroom and attack a male child. A female predator can go into a women's restroom and attack a female child. It's not like they've got "predator" tattooed on their forehead, just like gender or sexuality or mental health is tattooed on anyone's forehead.

    And frankly that's ignoring the overwhelming evidence that pedophiles and other predators are the greatest danger to family members or acquaintances. Not to random kids or women on the street. This reminds me of that urban legend that pops up- you know, kid gets snatched at the theme park, and the predator dyes the kid's hair and changes the clothes but forgets to change the shoes...and at the last possible second, someone recognizes the shoes and the kid is rescued.

    It's an urban legend for a reason. Because it doesn't happen in reality.
    Didn't say encourage. This is why this topic can't be discussed, everyone who differs in opinion from one another has words or interpretations added and subtracted. The micro inequities of a statement get turned into things like urban legend etc. Not what I said implied or intended. I'll respectfully bow out of this discourse.
     

    Branflakes

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    This is the thought process I don't get. No amount of laws or rules or media is going to stop a pedophile from doing what they want to do. So are you in favor of checking everyone's birth certificate and ID or asking them to show their junk to a guard before they can pee? Someone who wants to do bad knows how to do it with out being told. If it was the media causing pedophiles to get ideas we would see a rise in cases and there have been 0. Heck crime is actually lowering every year.
    This takes what I said and blows it out of proportion. Which is typical of this subject matter unfortunately. A pervert would most certainly feel empowered by a law that allows them to legally use an opposite sex restroom. Why? Because the law says they can. Therefore, no fear of being caught. No hiding. Even more in plain sight. Less sneaking around. This creates a general fear for parents. And anyone else in general. Fear is the issue. We can agree to disagree. I hear about this issue constantly in my community. It's not so black and white.
     

    StageTek

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
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    Someone is going to feel uncomfortable. I feel we need to take ALL feelings into consideration. If a teenage girl is uncomfortable seeing a biological male who identifies as a woman in the bathroom she should not be shamed and her feelings should not be dismissed. If an adult male who identifies as a woman is in the "mens" room he should not be shamed or made to feel uncomfortable. No one should be told, "Get over it."
     

    Westcoastwild

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    Someone is going to feel uncomfortable. I feel we need to take ALL feelings into consideration. If a teenage girl is uncomfortable seeing a biological male who identifies as a woman in the bathroom she should not be shamed and her feelings should not be dismissed. If an adult male who identifies as a woman is in the "mens" room he should not be shamed or made to feel uncomfortable. No one should be told, "Get over it."
    I don't think shaming is a part of this. I'm not even sure it's about discomfort. I think it's more about a safe space. Anyone should be able to use any bathroom safely. If there's a risk of exposure, then I think the problem is not men in women's bathrooms or women in men's bathrooms- the problem is design of the restroom. I'd be perfectly ok if they did gender neutral "closet toilets" with sinks outside.

    I guess that's what I don't get. Every time this comes up it becomes "blame the transgender person". Not blame the bathroom designer or the business owner for building those bathrooms. Because this isn't an issue in other parts of the world.
     
  • wilkeliza

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    Feb 1, 2013
    This takes what I said and blows it out of proportion. Which is typical of this subject matter unfortunately. A pervert would most certainly feel empowered by a law that allows them to legally use an opposite sex restroom. Why? Because the law says they can. Therefore, no fear of being caught. No hiding. Even more in plain sight. Less sneaking around. This creates a general fear for parents. And anyone else in general. Fear is the issue. We can agree to disagree. I hear about this issue constantly in my community. It's not so black and white.
    The thing is the law would not be empowering them. You can't just decide one day you are transgender and walk into whatever bathroom you want. Anyone who does that is taking advantage of the situation and would have done it anyways.
     
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    cruisehopeful

    Wishing I was taking a nap on a ship.
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    Oct 25, 2015
    Some of the comments have been interesting to me. I think nobody wants a pedophile or sexual deviant in the restroom when they are using the restroom. It has nothing to do with gender identity. I don't see any correlation at all and I don't understand why one would have anything to do with the other.

    Meanwhile, knowing the suicide rate is around 50% for transgender individuals, why in the world would anyone want to make a transgender person feel bad by being told they have to use the wrong restroom? I don't understand why someone would prefer that someone feel so bad that they want to commit suicide rather than let them use the toilet they are most comfortable with and support them with doing everything they possibly could to feel better about themselves and not feel suicidal.
     

    Westcoastwild

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    Some of the comments have been interesting to me. I think nobody wants a pedophile or sexual deviant in the restroom when they are using the restroom. It has nothing to do with gender identity. I don't see any correlation at all and I don't understand why one would have anything to do with the other.

    Meanwhile, knowing the suicide rate is around 50% for transgender individuals, why in the world would anyone want to make a transgender person feel bad by being told they have to use the wrong restroom? I don't understand why someone would prefer that someone feel so bad that they want to commit suicide rather than let them use the toilet they are most comfortable with and support them with doing everything they possibly could to feel better about themselves and not feel suicidal.
    ALL OF THIS:love: I know, right? I don't want any creep or predator in any restroom I'm using. Gender does not determine criminal tendencies.
     

    StageTek

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
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    I am open to using the words that work. I'll amend my comment:

    Someone is going to feel unsafe. If a teenage girl feels unsafe using a public restroom with a biological male who identifies as a woman her feelings are valid and should be treated with respect. A biological male who identifies as a woman should be able to feel safe using the "mens" restroom. What I don't get are those who blame the cisgender as intolerant.
     
  • Hannahinwonderland

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    Apr 7, 2014
    This entire argument is based off a false, socially constructed idea that there are only two genders and everyone perfectly matches into one of these two gender categories. That's just not the case. The fact is that people who don't fit neatly into one of those categories still need to use the bathroom safely and comfortably. Basing bathrooms off "biology" is just dumb. Everyone has a different biological makeup, and only some people actually fit, 100%, the biological sex characteristics of "their gender".

    Short of literally genetically testing people to see what their chromosomes look like, there is no way to sort people into those categories before they use the restroom. As many have said, "keeping pedophiles out" is a straw man... no one is going to show up in a wig and heels so they can prey on innocent little girls in the bathroom....a pedophile is going to walk in and kidnap a little girl if that's what they want to do. Women and men can both be predators.

    The real issue is that people feel uncomfortable with things that they do not understand. Transgender people do NOT want anyone calling attention to them in the bathroom. A trans woman who has a tall, masculine frame but is wearing a skirt and makeup is not going to feel comfortable or safe in the men's room, they aren't male. If you are opposed to this, I just ask you to consider the idea that transgender people are humans like all of us who literally just want to do their business.

    I'd rather eliminate the gender dichotomy all together, but obviously we aren't going to, and we are not going to replace all bathrooms with gender neutral ones. So therefore, I sure wish that we could get to a place in society where everyone could use the bathroom that they feel safe and comfortable in, that *most* aligns with the gender that they identify with. There should also be a single-stall bathroom for those with disabilities, need privacy, families, or don't feel comfortable using any gendered bathroom, and they should be widely available and not tucked into a vague corner of the park etc. I'm sorry if someone feels uncomfortable with the idea that there might be a piece of junk that doesn't match what they have in the bathroom at the same time as them, but that person's discomfort is not worth completely degrading another person's life or endangering their safety. Walk in, do your business, wash your hands, leave. I would be willing to bet the transgender person is trying to do the exact same thing.
     

    Westcoastwild

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    This entire argument is based off a false, socially constructed idea that there are only two genders and everyone perfectly matches into one of these two gender categories. That's just not the case. The fact is that people who don't fit neatly into one of those categories still need to use the bathroom safely and comfortably. Basing bathrooms off "biology" is just dumb. Everyone has a different biological makeup, and only some people actually fit, 100%, the biological sex characteristics of "their gender".

    Short of literally genetically testing people to see what their chromosomes look like, there is no way to sort people into those categories before they use the restroom. As many have said, "keeping pedophiles out" is a straw man... no one is going to show up in a wig and heels so they can prey on innocent little girls in the bathroom....a pedophile is going to walk in and kidnap a little girl if that's what they want to do. Women and men can both be predators.

    The real issue is that people feel uncomfortable with things that they do not understand. Transgender people do NOT want anyone calling attention to them in the bathroom. A trans woman who has a tall, masculine frame but is wearing a skirt and makeup is not going to feel comfortable or safe in the men's room, they aren't male. If you are opposed to this, I just ask you to consider the idea that transgender people are humans like all of us who literally just want to do their business.

    I'd rather eliminate the gender dichotomy all together, but obviously we aren't going to, and we are not going to replace all bathrooms with gender neutral ones. So therefore, I sure wish that we could get to a place in society where everyone could use the bathroom that they feel safe and comfortable in, that *most* aligns with the gender that they identify with. There should also be a single-stall bathroom for those with disabilities, need privacy, families, or don't feel comfortable using any gendered bathroom, and they should be widely available and not tucked into a vague corner of the park etc. I'm sorry if someone feels uncomfortable with the idea that there might be a piece of junk that doesn't match what they have in the bathroom at the same time as them, but that person's discomfort is not worth completely degrading another person's life or endangering their safety. Walk in, do your business, wash your hands, leave. I would be willing to bet the transgender person is trying to do the exact same thing.
    Yep. Right. I think the main difference is that some people on this thread see a trans woman using a female restroom as a male using a female restroom. That isn't the case.

    The cis gender people who are "uncomfortable" sharing a bathroom with transgender folks and want to ban them from using the restroom on account of that ARE intolerant. Because their mindset is the problem. They think the transgender individual is a danger to them simply on the basis that they are transgender. What else would you call that? I can't report another individual for making me uncomfortable by their very presence. A homeless lady in the public bathroom? Makes me a little uncomfortable, I'm going to be honest. But unless she's actively doing something that endangers the rest of us, I'd look like a total idiot for going to management and saying "um...there's a badly dressed woman with poor hygiene in the bathroom."
     

    wilkeliza

    DIS Veteran
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    Feb 1, 2013
    I am open to using the words that work. I'll amend my comment:

    Someone is going to feel unsafe. If a teenage girl feels unsafe using a public restroom with a biological male who identifies as a woman her feelings are valid and should be treated with respect. A biological male who identifies as a woman should be able to feel safe using the "mens" restroom. What I don't get are those who blame the cisgender as intolerant.
    So in your situation where does the F to M who looks very masculine go? He goes into the female bathroom because that is what He is biologically but now teenage girl feels unsafe. He goes to the male bathroom but patrons are making a big deal that they know he isn't manly enough to be a man so much be transgender and they can't wait to show him his place. Yes a teenage girl can feel uncomfortable but again why not open the discussion on why she was uncomfortable. Did she see the M to F and assume this lady wasn't woman enough so much be a man is only in the bathroom and out to get her or is she uncomfortable because this person is peeking in the bathrooms and showing everyone her junk? If it is the second one then of course that is wrong and the girl is perfectly acceptable in being uncomfortable. IF it is the mere fact that she assumes this other person has a ***** then why not discuss why she felt that and what about the opposite biological parts instantly makes her uncomfortable when there is no threat of violence?
     

    Shanti

    Momketeer
    Joined
    Nov 29, 2015
    What is your take on this subject? Does Disney take on this? I prefer transgender to have family restrooms since they do deserve privacy.
    Everyone deserves privacy while going to the restroom. Disney is a business, not a political entity, and as long as people aren't causing a problem they don't care about this. If a person identifies/presents themselves as a woman, they are welcome to use the women's restroom, and vice versa for the men's room. No one at WDW (employee or guest) is going to demand to see their privates or anything.
     

    StageTek

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
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    Apr 20, 2007
    I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?
     

    Westcoastwild

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    I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?
    I think that if you have to ask that, you aren't taking into account social/cultural context at all. I'm always deeply impressed by transgender women's courage. To come out and say that you're transgender at all is to basically put a big ol' bullseye on your back in many areas of the US. To merely be a woman makes one a target in some places. Not fair or right, but it's the reality. I am the last person to say that I need a traveling companion or a spouse to keep safe. But there are situations in which I will absolutely ask security to escort me to my car, or ask a traveling companion to come out to the bar with me. So yes, I completely understand why a transgender woman would feel uncomfortable using a men's restroom or lockerroom.

    As a woman, if I go into a male restroom I might get some weird looks. If a transgender woman did the same, there is likely zero chance that people would stop at that. Up thread, someone mentions a case in which a lady questioned someone's use of the restroom just based on the fact she didn't "look" like a stereotypical woman. People are nuts about this.

    Here's a question I'm genuinely curious about. Say you've got your 5 year old son in the woman's changing room. I take off my swimsuit and change into my dry clothes. You chastise me for showing my boobs near your son. I say if he's old enough to notice boobs, he's old enough for me to not want him in the same locker room. Who's right?

    And to be perfectly clear: No, I wasn't doing some kind of strip dance. No, I could not have used a toilet stall- people were changing their kids in those. And no matter which way that kid looked, he would have seen boobs. I was just the person next to his mother on the bench. I don't have a problem with the kid being there. I have a problem with the mother's expectation that the kid should be "protected" from seeing a naked lady in a female changing room.
     
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    wilkeliza

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    Feb 1, 2013
    I guess I am not as clear as I would hope to be. I hoped it was clear that in using the examples I used I was saying that everyone deserves to be treated with respect and their feelings acknowledged. Opening the discussion on why people are uncomfortable is a great idea. Why does an AMAB who identifies as female feel uncomfortable in the mens room?
    Most of the time it is because if they are passing as female MtF then men in the room make comments and sexualy harass them. It does get complex in early phases of transition or an MtF that is not "passing" and most of the wonderful people in that situation understand the issue and often will seal out facilities with single stall bathrooms to mitigate the issue.
     

    dvcdream4fld

    Mouseketeer
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    Aug 25, 2014
    This is where you go poop and pee. Does this really matter that much? Go into the bathroom and do your business. I think most people aren't interested in being in their why you do your business. I know I do even want to be in the bathroom some takes a poop no matter what gender identity. The fact that people have so much time on their hands to worry about where they are going to relieve themselves is just crazy to me. I say we just get rid of all the bathrooms and poop outside. Then nobody will get there feelings hurt.
     

    StageTek

    It's kind of fun to do the impossible.
    Joined
    Apr 20, 2007
    I think that if you have to ask that, you aren't taking into account social/cultural context at all.
    Thus my interest. It's acceptable (even essential) to ask the cicgendered person why they are uncomfortable. It is socially/culturally insensitive to ask a transgender person the same thing.

    I ask because I'm curious, interested and open to learn. Not because I am not taking into account social/cultural context. As social/cultural context changes and grows I have to ask BECAUSE I take those things into context.
     
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