Wanna buy a Fastpass? It will cost ya $50

[mickeyluv'r]

These FPs are coming out of the FP bucket. They aren't creating new FPs out of thin air

Not true. There's no fixed FP Bucket. The number of FP is highly variable on any given day.

1. WDW can adjust the # of FP vs. standby. Though in that context, they'd be taking away Standby access to accommodate more FP.
2. WDW can and does adjust ride capacity. Think about BTMRR operating only one train early in the morning, of the number of boats in the boat rides. WDW has many ways to adjust capacity.
3. WDW can add park hours. Park hours are not fixed. They are highly adjustable.
4. WDW can make more attractions FP attractions. They've already played with this quite a bit, but as each new attraction opens, the number of available FP goes up. Adding Avatar INCREASED the total FP pool significantly.

Now if you said, the number of FP for Space Mtn between 2pm-3pm on Easter week is a fixed amount, that is probably, effectively true. It might be more of a challenge to get a specific FP for a specific hour of the day, but guests already accept those terms.

Just add a "new" parade-FP, Character -FP, a few PotC boats, or an extra hour and the number of FP has just been increased.

 

[mom2rtk]

Not true. There's no fixed FP Bucket. The number of FP is highly variable on any given day.

1. WDW can adjust the # of FP vs. standby. Though in that context, they'd be taking away Standby access to accommodate more FP.
2. WDW can and does adjust ride capacity. Think about BTMRR operating only one train early in the morning, of the number of boats in the boat rides. WDW has many ways to adjust capacity.
3. WDW can add park hours. Park hours are not fixed. They are highly adjustable.
4. WDW can make more attractions FP attractions. They've already played with this quite a bit, but as each new attraction opens, the number of available FP goes up. Adding Avatar INCREASED the total FP pool significantly.

Now if you said, the number of FP for Space Mtn between 2pm-3pm on Easter week is a fixed amount, that is probably, effectively true. It might be more of a challenge to get a specific FP for a specific hour of the day, but guests already accept those terms.

Just add a "new" parade-FP, Character -FP, a few PotC boats, or an extra hour and the number of FP has just been increased.

It's still a takeaway from somewhere, from someone. It all has to come out of the ride's daily capacity.

And I get that Disney can add capacity in some cases and can park hours. But I'm not buying that's what they're doing here. I get that you think differently. And that's fine. I'm just not buying it.

Disney should already be doing all of the things they can to serve the customers paying $100+/day to be in their parks.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Not true. There's no fixed FP Bucket. The number of FP is highly variable on any given day.

1. WDW can adjust the # of FP vs. standby. Though in that context, they'd be taking away Standby access to accommodate more FP.
2. WDW can and does adjust ride capacity. Think about BTMRR operating only one train early in the morning, of the number of boats in the boat rides. WDW has many ways to adjust capacity.
3. WDW can add park hours. Park hours are not fixed. They are highly adjustable.
4. WDW can make more attractions FP attractions. They've already played with this quite a bit, but as each new attraction opens, the number of available FP goes up. Adding Avatar INCREASED the total FP pool significantly.

Now if you said, the number of FP for Space Mtn between 2pm-3pm on Easter week is a fixed amount, that is probably, effectively true. It might be more of a challenge to get a specific FP for a specific hour of the day, but guests already accept those terms.

Just add a "new" parade-FP, Character -FP, a few PotC boats, or an extra hour and the number of FP has just been increased.

I was thinking about high demand rides that are already running at full capacity. Example: There are only so many physical spots on a high-demand ride like FoP in a given hour. So selling more of those seats at 90 days does take away a regular ticket holders chance of getting a FP. Even for the second tier rides, sure they have a few ways to increase capacity and one of those ways will probably be having less "good" 4th FP opportunities.

 

[mickeyluv'r]

I was thinking about high demand rides that are already running at full capacity. Example: There are only so many physical spots on a high-demand ride like FoP in a given hour. So selling more of those seats at 90 days does take away a regular ticket holders chance of getting a FP. Even for the second tier rides, sure they have a few ways to increase capacity and one of those ways will probably be having less "good" 4th FP opportunities.

If true, the impact would be negligible, and probably imperceptible.

No FP is 'mine' until it is offered to me. I can't miss what isn't mine, and WDW isn't entitled to give me a FoP for any specific hour of the day. That's always been true of FP+.

We also have no idea how many are offered. Or the exact number of FP vs. Standby guests per hour.

What did you for AK FP do before FoP opened? You did something else. You didn't feel cheated out of FoP FP. If you can't get FoP for a specific hour on a specific day, then you'll get a FP for one of the other FP's you are offered. Same as before.

What did CL guests do prior to this offer? WDW knows exactly how often they went on all the FP rides, because they have the data.

They went to the parks about the same as they will do now.

CL guests will probably only ride FoP about the same as before, and WDW will likely adjust FP as necessary- in all the ways I suggested.

Incidentally, the day I rode FoP...the ride wasn't operating at anything resembling full capacity. I don't know if they have the ride fixed or not, but for a long while it wasn't operating at capacity at all- on any day.

 

[Pluto777]

I'm not saying the sky is falling, but hear me out....

Eventually, these "extras" start detracting from your $800 AP or $125/day ticket.

Get to the park early, see others getting in, ask what's happening, "those people paid $70 for early access"

Go to get on the Liberty Bell at 2, find out that you can't get on, "those people paid $60 for a special engagement on this boat"

Go to view the afternoon parade, happen upon a spot by Tony's, "these people paid extra for this spot"

Go to watch the fireworks, "this spot is reserved for people who paid extra"

Leave at 8, see people stay, "these people paid extra to stay"

This is definitely some hyperbole, but its not trending in the direction of getting more for paying more.....(on the base admission)

I know they are a business, and we can all vote with our wallets, but it doesn't detract from the point.

They haven't taken it to the point where we can't enjoy our visits, but I feel like if they stay on this trajectory it will reach that point.

Thanks for the indulgence!

EXCELLENT POST! Too bad there is no way to give a super like!

 

[Pluto777]

Great post. I don't think it will be long before Disney is only for the "rich".

it's already for the rich, it just may head to 'super rich'

 

[Pluto777]

How about they open a FIFTH park, before starting to charge more for all the 'extras',which soon threaten to become BASICS? At least a 5th park would take some of the crowd pressure off - then if they sold these 'extras' I would mind much less, since it would balance out the added pressure on the lines

 

[Praying Colonel]

How about they open a FIFTH park, before starting to charge more for all the 'extras',which soon threaten to become BASICS? At least a 5th park would take some of the crowd pressure off - then if they sold these 'extras' I would mind much less, since it would balance out the added pressure on the lines

Disney loves the "pressure." The higher demand means they can charge more without the capital outlay and labor costs of a 5th gate.

 

[Pluto777]

Disney loves the "pressure." The higher demand means they can charge more without the capital outlay and labor costs of a 5th gate.

In fairness though, they ARE spending a LOT of money on HS (Star Wars Land, TS land etc), I just think the mney would be better spent on making a brand NEW 5th park, which would shorten lines at the other 4, and, in the long run, may actually INCREASE Disney profits. It might be a 'win-win'?

 

[ArwenMarie]

If true, the impact would be negligible, and probably imperceptible.

No FP is 'mine' until it is offered to me. I can't miss what isn't mine, and WDW isn't entitled to give me a FoP for any specific hour of the day. That's always been true of FP+.

We also have no idea how many are offered. Or the exact number of FP vs. Standby guests per hour.

What did you for AK FP do before FoP opened? You did something else. You didn't feel cheated out of FoP FP. If you can't get FoP for a specific hour on a specific day, then you'll get a FP for one of the other FP's you are offered. Same as before.

What did CL guests do prior to this offer? WDW knows exactly how often they went on all the FP rides, because they have the data.

They went to the parks about the same as they will do now.

CL guests will probably only ride FoP about the same as before, and WDW will likely adjust FP as necessary- in all the ways I suggested.

Incidentally, the day I rode FoP...the ride wasn't operating at anything resembling full capacity. I don't know if they have the ride fixed or not, but for a long while it wasn't operating at capacity at all- on any day.

How could someone feel cheated out of a ride that didn't exist yet? Okey dokey

 

[Praying Colonel]

In fairness though, they ARE spending a LOT of money on HS (Star Wars Land, TS land etc), I just think the mney would be better spent on making a brand NEW 5th park, which would shorten lines at the other 4, and, in the long run, may actually INCREASE Disney profits. It might be a 'win-win'?

I hear you, but a 5th gate would be a much larger undertaking than the additions they're making to already-existing parks. Take Star Wars Land and multiply it by 5, then create all the infrastructure for it to exist in a place that's currently undeveloped marshland. Then hire all the people needed to staff it. I'd be surprised if it happens in our lifetimes.

 

[Rich M]

5th gate would be a nice increase in ticket prices again. I am happy that they are doing something to an existing park that needs more attractions.

 

[Pluto777]

I hear you, but a 5th gate would be a much larger undertaking than the additions they're making to already-existing parks. Take Star Wars Land and multiply it by 5, then create all the infrastructure for it to exist in a place that's currently undeveloped marshland. Then hire all the people needed to staff it. I'd be surprised if it happens in our lifetimes.

They might surprise you at just how fast they make that money right back.... and then some.

 

[Pluto777]

5th gate would be a nice increase in ticket prices again. I am happy that they are doing something to an existing park that needs more attractions.

Not necessarily; there are only SO MANY parks and rides that people could visit in 1 day. As park capacity increased, perhaps revenue would also increase, thus negating the need for higher prices?

 

[Rich M]

Not necessarily; there are only SO MANY parks and rides that people could visit in 1 day. As park capacity increased, perhaps revenue would also increase, thus negating the need for higher prices?

I would be completely shocked if they added a park and didn’t raise the cost but we can all hope and pray

 

[dlavender]

I just contend that they need to complete the others, first.

EPCOT has way too many closed and empty spaces.

I know there are plans to fix that (at least I think there are), but can we get that without having to pay more, first?

Same with HS. Give us the upgrades, along with the price hikes. Not pay more, then we will give you more later...

 

[mom2rtk]

I'm not one to jump in at the drop of a hat and say Disney needs a 5th gate. But I think with Star Wars, they should have considered it. I don't think 2 rides and some shops is enough to satisfy the demand. (Do we even know if Star Tours is sticking around?) I can't even imagine how such a small addition will begin to meet the demand. On either coast. But Disney of course will relish the 3 hour waits just to enter the land, let alone get on the rides. Which puts them at cross purposes with how I like to enjoy the parks.

They look at 4 hour ride lines and see success. I look at 4 hour ride lines and see failure.

 

[MrInfinity]

Cause for a 5th gate:
ex: Parks are too crowded let's build a 5th gate to SPREAD the crowds.
No. That increases costs by 25% (4 to 5 parks) and lowers the value of each ride by having more rides available per person.
ex: By adding a 5th gate we will get 30% more guests.
Yes. If adding a park will increase the # of guests by more than the addition of the # of rides, then you add a park.
That is the only reason you add it. If it will increase the demand in the existing parks. If that 5th gate will pull in MORE visitors and therefore make a FastPass worth $75/day instead of $50/day (or whatever). Point is they will not add attractions or parks to reduce the congestion regarding the rides. The thinking that they want to spread crowds and reduce the difficulty is consumer wishful thinking and tied to a false belief that Disney has charitable goals.
Adding a 5th gate will not pull in 25% more people to the World. Thus I have to concur with those above who say "not in our lifetime". That's probably true. They've already applied their most valuable new properties of Star Wars and Marvel to existing parks.

 

[mom2rtk]

They've already applied their most valuable new properties of Star Wars and Marvel to existing parks.

Yep. That ship has definitely sailed. Now we just have to brace for impact.

 

[dlavender]

I'm not one to jump in at the drop of a hat and say Disney needs a 5th gate. But I think with Star Wars, they should have considered it. I don't think 2 rides and some shops is enough to satisfy the demand. (Do we even know if Star Tours is sticking around?) I can't even imagine how such a small addition will begin to meet the demand. On either coast. But Disney of course will relish the 3 hour waits just to enter the land, let alone get on the rides. Which puts them at cross purposes with how I like to enjoy the parks.

They look at 4 hour ride lines and see success. I look at 4 hour ride lines and see failure.

Yeah, but you can't sell upgraded access when you don't have 4 hour lines....

(Insert evil Bob Iger laugh)