Wonder how they'll spin this one.

[Hikergirl]

I wouldn’t utter a word to police if i was a black man that shot a white woman. And i would advise my son to do the same. I don’t think it makes someone look guilty.

But he isn't just a black man who shot a white person, he is a police officer that shot an unarmed person that was not involved in any crime, or the suspect of any crime.
I don't care what color you are, if you are a police officer I'd like to hear why you are justifying that, if you aren't speaking then I'm going to assume you can't justify it. That may just be because of the high profile cases we have seen that is what happens, but that is just how I feel.
I'm not going to say he IS guilty, but I sure don't think keeping quiet makes him look like like he is innocent.

 

[luvsJack]

While disgusting, breaking into cars isn’t a capital offense.

ETA: The story I heard on the news yesterday was the police were looking in yards for someone hiding who had been breaking into cars. He was just in his backyard but not who they were looking for.

There were helicopters in the area. And the person who they believe to be the one shot, was seen trying to break into a house with a toolbar and then go around front and look in a car. The guy shot had just run into his grandparent's yard. I haven't seen anything that says he wasn't the man they were looking for.

He held his cell phone out and pointed it at the officers and they believed it to be a gun. As has been said in so many cases, these officers have a split second to determine if someone is about to shoot them. For whatever reason they thought he did shoot at them and then they fired.

Don't make it sound like he was just standing around and they drove up and shot the man. That isn't what happened.

And no breaking into cars is not a capital offense. Breaking the law and then pointing something at the officers or not doing what they tell you does put your life in jeopardy.

 

[LSUmiss]

There were helicopters in the area. And the person who they believe to be the one shot, was seen trying to break into a house with a toolbar and then go around front and look in a car. The guy shot had just run into his grandparent's yard. I haven't seen anything that says he wasn't the man they were looking for.

He held his cell phone out and pointed it at the officers and they believed it to be a gun. As has been said in so many cases, these officers have a split second to determine if someone is about to shoot them. For whatever reason they thought he did shoot at them and then they fired.

Don't make it sound like he was just standing around and they drove up and shot the man. That isn't what happened.

And no breaking into cars is not a capital offense. Breaking the law and then pointing something at the officers or not doing what they tell you does put your life in jeopardy.

I guess there might be some conflicting info then since the investigation is still active. The news story I heard was he was in his grandparents’ backyard, police were in the area looking for someone hiding in the area. There was no info as to whether he was the one they were looking for. And he had a cell phone in his hand. No one said he pointed it at them. But, when you shoot an unarmed person, regardless of what they were doing, you have to answer for that.

 

[luvsJack]

I guess there might be some conflicting info then since the investigation is still active. The news story I heard was he was in his grandparents’ backyard, police were in the area looking for someone hiding in the area. There was no info as to whether he was the one they were looking for. And he had a cell phone in his hand. No one said he pointed it at them. But, when you shoot an unarmed person, regardless of what they were doing, you have to answer for that.

Well of course you do, that's why the investigation. But again, you have a split second to determine if the thing they are pointing at you is a gun, for whatever reason (and I haven't read why) you think they shoot at you, what do you do? Stand there and hope you don't get shot? And several different reports have said he was holding the cell phone out "pointing it at them" (I assume not holding it up so they could determine what it was).

I don't know, if the police came at me (regardless of where I was) with guns drawn, whatever i have in my hand, short of a child, is going to the ground. And I will be saying "its a phone" or "its a toy" or whatever.

 

[Hikergirl]

The link that was posted is horribly written.
Is the backyard mentioned a different one, and the helicopter followed him to his yard, or was it his yard they saw him breaking the window in?
They didn't find a tool bar, mentions a cell phone located near his body.



Deputies told police the suspect had used a “toolbar” to break another home’s window.

Deputies in a Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department helicopter spotted Clark in a backyard, and told deputies he had shattered a window with a tool bar.

Deputies instructed officers on the ground to the man’s location.

 

[luvsJack]

The link that was posted is horribly written.
Is the backyard mentioned a different one, and the helicopter followed him to his yard, or was it his yard they saw him breaking the window in?
They didn't find a tool bar, mentions a cell phone located near his body.



Deputies told police the suspect had used a “toolbar” to break another home’s window.

Deputies in a Sacramento County Sheriff’s Department helicopter spotted Clark in a backyard, and told deputies he had shattered a window with a tool bar.

Deputies instructed officers on the ground to the man’s location.

My understanding was that he was in someone else's yard when the helicopter spotted what is assumed to be him. The person was trying to break or did break the sliding glass door with a tool bar. He ran or jumped something and ran (different reports say it differently) into his grandparents' yard where he was confronted by the police on the ground. I would be guessing, if this is the same guy that was breaking into things, he dropped or threw the tool bar along the way. Of course, I am sure they are looking for it.

Still not sure how someone "points" a cell phone but, otoh, I understand that he should have dropped it or held it in a way that it was obviously a phone not a gun. or put his hands up with the phone in his hand. ANYTHING but point it at them.

 

[Hikergirl]

My understanding was that he was in someone else's yard when the helicopter spotted what is assumed to be him. The person was trying to break or did break the sliding glass door with a tool bar. He ran or jumped something and ran (different reports say it differently) into his grandparents' yard where he was confronted by the police on the ground. I would be guessing, if this is the same guy that was breaking into things, he dropped or threw the tool bar along the way. Of course, I am sure they are looking for it.

Still not sure how someone "points" a cell phone but, otoh, I understand that he should have dropped it or held it in a way that it was obviously a phone not a gun. or put his hands up with the phone in his hand. ANYTHING but point it at them.

OK, so if the helicopter followed him into the backyard they would know it was him trying to break in to another house, if they actually witnessed it.
I haven't seen anything that made it clear he was, or if he just happened to be in the backyard and the police showed up.

I haven't really been following this, so I don't know what details are out there or not, so I'm just thinking out loud so to speak. I think it is easy to see how someone "points" a cell phone, and not in a menacing way but more in a way to show that he doesn't have a gun, or a tool bar or whatever. Like I said I don't know the details, maybe the police said show me your hands or asked what he had in his hands, and his "pointing" it may have just been him showing that it was a cell and nothing else.

I think there are definitely times where shooting someone unarmed is justified, but at face value this doesn't look like one of those times. Even if he was the guy breaking in to homes/cars.

ETA just watched the video, and it is pretty disturbing. They yell for him to show them his hands, one officer yells "gun" then he goes back around the corner and looks like he loads his mag, then turns the corner to face Stephon and yells show me you hands, and before he even finishes the word "hand" he yells "gun gun gun" and starts shooting. They didn't even have time to see what was in his hands, how could they have known what it was or what it wasn't?
He looked 2 times and couldn't identify whether or not it was a gun? He made an assumption that cost someone their life. He should be held accountable.

 

[GreatLakes]

I trust the investigatory process. In the case this thread is about they did a through investigation and came to the conclusion there was sufficient evidence to warrant charges. I trust the process on this new case as well.

 

[luvsJack]

It seems that the experts reviewing it do feel at this point that it may have been justified. I don’t know, honestly. If his actions put them in fear of their lives then I guess it does.

The video from the shooting is online, both from the helicopter and the body cameras. It was dark for one thing and that makes it hard to see what they saw. The helicopter follows the man as he went into his grandparent's yard. Now, there is a brief moment where the guy shot and the guy running could have swapped places, I suppose but if that's the case then they are hiding the criminal.

As for "pointing his cell phone', now, I would guess that he was holding it with the end towards them which would make it hard to determine what it is. Especially at night. If I wanted to show someone that I had a cell in my hand, I would have it flat in my palm.

 

[SirDuff]

That’s just it. He was breaking into cars. He had just gotten to his backyard.

I haven’t seen evidence either way, it was an independent experts reviewing the videos.

Sacramento news is reporting that from the video it shows that the officers did, in fact, fear for their lives and did think they were fired at.

How does a video show what they were thinking and feeling?

 

[luvsJack]

How does a video show what they were thinking and feeling?

I am just telling you what it said. I have no idea. I guess they are saying they can see where they had reason to and I think it may have said something about from what they could hear the officers saying.

They definitely said something about him firing at them. One of them said something about checking to see if he (the officer) had been hit.

 

[disneyjunkie]

A black man standing in his backyard with a cell phone is shot 20 times because the police were afraid.

A white man murders people in a church. Police not only arrest him without harming a hair on his head, but take disgusting, piece of garbage out for a meal.

How in the hell are you not afraid of the man who just murdered a bunch of people in a church????

 

[luvsJack]

A black man standing in his backyard with a cell phone is shot 20 times because the police were afraid.

A white man murders people in a church. Police not only arrest him without harming a hair on his head, but take disgusting, piece of garbage out for a meal.

How in the hell are you not afraid of the man who just murdered a bunch of people in a church????

Was the man in the church pointing a gun at them (I know it was a cell phone but from their perspective)? Was there an immediate threat to them?

 

[disneyjunkie]

He had just murdered a church full of people. Every officer responding should have been afraid of him.

Each and every time a black man, child or woman is murdered by police, the go to response is "I feared for my life"

When did black males with wallets(Amadou Diallo)and cell phones become a threat?

 

[christineann]

Very little was known about the murderer at Emanuel in Charleston at the time of his arrest, and he did not resist arrest. (No, I will not say the murderer 's name because he wants his name to be famous.) The authorities handled him in a way that led to the gathering of the information they needed to ensure that there were no conspirators committing or planning to commit similar crimes and that there were no explosives planted anywhere, all to protect the community, and it led to a full confession. To infer that the killer received special treatment from law enforcement is unfounded, ridiculous, and ignorant of the facts.

 

[luvsJack]

He had just murdered a church full of people. Every officer responding should have been afraid of him.

Each and every time a black man, child or woman is murdered by police, the go to response is "I feared for my life"

When did black males with wallets(Amadou Diallo)and cell phones become a threat?

You didn’t answer my question.

Did he point a weapon at them? Did they have reason to believe he was going to shoot them?

There is a difference in someone giving you reason to be afraid of them and being an immediate threat. Now I only know a few officers but most of them aren’t necessarily afraid of someone. But when looking at a gun pointed at them or believing they are being fired on can make them fear for their life. There is a difference.


And stop with the “when did wallets or phones become a threat”. The phone wasn’t a threat but they thought he had a gun. They thought he fired at them.

 

[disneyjunkie]

It doesn't matter if he pointed a gun at them or not.
They had reason to be afraid because they knew he had just murdered others.

I will stop with the "when did wallets or phones become a threat” when police stop murdering unarmed black men and children.

 

[luvsJack]

It doesn't matter if he pointed a gun at them or not.
They had reason to be afraid because they knew he had just murdered others.

I will stop with the "when did wallets or phones become a threat” when police stop murdering unarmed black men and children.

It does matter. It’s a different in definition of what they mean by “reason to fear for their life”. It doesn’t mean they are afraid of THAT person.

I don’t know or remember how they apprehended him but if he threw up his hands and went willingly, he wasn’t a threat to the officers. If they took him down and got him in cuffs, he wasn’t a threat to the officers. If he had fired on them or threatened their lives then there would have been a different outcome.

This guy in this case was not a child. He apparently wasn’t an innocent citizen. Don’t make him out to be. If he was out breaking into cars and houses, they knew he likely had a weapon. Have you even watched the video? It was dark and it seemed confusing. They thought he shot at them, for some reason and they saw what they thought was a gun. Perhaps if he had been home taking care of his kids, the outcome would have been different for him that night.

You are using phrases to twist what happened. When you put on that vest and you carry that badge, get back to me on what constitutes fearing for your life.

 

[christineann]

Two very different situations and different actions taken by suspects during apprehension by authorities. Many around here wish that the killer who came to OUR city and murdered OUR neighbors had resisted and given the police reason to take him out during his arrest so we wouldn't have to see his face over and over again in the news. Contrary to the agenda pushed by some, police officers do not like pulling the trigger, and the facts are there.

 

[LSUmiss]

You didn’t answer my question.

Did he point a weapon at them? Did they have reason to believe he was going to shoot them?

There is a difference in someone giving you reason to be afraid of them and being an immediate threat. Now I only know a few officers but most of them aren’t necessarily afraid of someone. But when looking at a gun pointed at them or believing they are being fired on can make them fear for their life. There is a difference.


And stop with the “when did wallets or phones become a threat”. The phone wasn’t a threat but they thought he had a gun. They thought he fired at them.

I’m sorry but “thought” is just not good enough.