New ECV Rules Oct. 1?

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This thread has strayed from being an informative discussion into an argument.
I am going to add a small, very old fable to remind people that the view one person has is NOT the only view. Just because one person's needs using a wheelchair are met in one way, it doesn't mean that all people using a wheelchair will have the same needs.

Please read the fable and think about it before posting any other responses.


“Six Blind Men and An Elephant”: A Fable

A long time ago in India there lived six men who had all been blind since birth; they would compete with each other to see who could tell the tallest story and each always thought that he was correct.

One day, they fell to arguing. The object of their dispute was the elephant. Now, since each was blind, none had ever seen an elephant. So, to satisfy their minds and settle the dispute, they decided to try to find an elephant.

Having hired a young guide, they set out early one morning in single file along the forest trail. It was not long before they came to a forest clearing where a huge bull elephant, quite tame, was standing.

The six blind men became quite excited; at last they would satisfy their minds. Each of the men took turns to investigate the elephant's shape and form. Since all were blind and the elephant was large, none of them could tell what the whole elephant was like. Each came to a different part and felt that part to tell the others what the elephant was like.

The first man felt the side of the elephant and cried out, 'O my brothers, an elephant is like a great mud wall baked hard in the sun.'

The second man felt the tusk and said, 'Now, my brothers, I can tell you what shape this elephant is - he is exactly like a spear.'

The third man felt the tail and shouted, 'Why, dear brothers, you are wrong. This elephant is very much like a rope.'

The fourth man was at the head and as he moved his hands, he reached the trunk. He said, 'Ha, are you sure you are feeling an elephant. He is not at all the way you describe. This elephant is very much like a snake.'

The others began to argue that their view was correct.

The fifth man, who was also at the head of the elephant, reached the ear and said, 'Good gracious, brothers, even a blind man can see what shape the elephant resembles most. Why he's just like a fan or maybe a palm leaf.'

At last, it was the turn of the sixth old fellow, who was near the leg. As he felt it, he said, 'Brothers, all of you are wrong. This sturdy pillar, feels exactly like the trunk of a large palm tree.'

Of course, no one believed him, because they had all their own view of the elephant and were sure their view was the correct one.

Their curiosity satisfied, they all linked hands and followed the guide back to the village. Once there, the six blind men began arguing loud and long. Each now had his own opinion, firmly based on his own experience, of what an elephant is really like. For after all, each had felt the elephant for himself and knew that he was right!
Although each was right about the part of the elephant HE had felt, none of the blind men had a complete picture of the elephant.
They continued to argue because none of them would admit that possibly there was a different view of the elephant than they had.


Like the 6 blind men, each person has their own view of "disability" and what "using a wheelchair" means, based on their experience.
Some people realize that their view is not the only view and are able to see that some guests might have different needs than they do and what works well for them may not work at all for another guest.

Like the arguing blind men, some guests see their view as the only view and can't see that someone else may have different needs.

People do not come here to argue and arguements or telling other posters how they should feel about their disability will not be tolerated.
If this continues, KPeveler or I will close this thread and the posters who continue arguing will be given points, if necessary.
 
Sue, thanks for the fable and thanks for all you, Cheshire and KPeveler do for us.
 
no, you cannot force people to move - I have checked federal transportation law - you can ask, but you cannot force them to move. Basically I think this is because people sitting there may be disabled or need the seat for invisible reasons...

Yes, I would think this would be the case.


I don't want preferred treatment but I don't think the general public wants wheelchair users to have equal access in this situation.


Equal also would mean not having to wait for the bus driver to untie the straps and lower the ramp to leave. Being the last one off the bus is not equal.

I don't think equal can be achieved but boarding first when possible is probably the best way to average equal access.

I agree Bill. As others have mentioned a lot of times people don't see the lines the WC/ECV users endure. In Disneyland, Pirates might be a five-minute wait for non-ECV/WC users and an hour for HA. Same with Haunted Mansion (at least we get to see the Stretching Room in DL!)

I will say I don't mind being the last one off the bus. Much easier to maneuver and the park will still be there when I get to the gate!
 
Maybe you should look at life as I do. Take every day with a "golden glow" and don't let trivial things spoil your day. After all what's an half hour waiting on a whole life?
FYI I used a wheelchair. QUOTE]

No comment at the above post directed to me as I will keep my thoughts to myself. Has anyone had any further experiences to report? The more I thought about the change the more I am concerned about the bus drivers dealing with w/c and ECV guests as well as others in the midst of the queue line when we start to board. I don't relish the looks on other Guest's faces when they are asked to move or when they are worried about our driving ability! I know I'm a great w/c driver but many who are new w/c or ECV users here have expressed concerns about "what others will think" and I can't imagine that raising their anxiety level is a good thing. I really hope this is one of the changes that, like the seating issue at Pecos Bill, will end quickly or be modified to actually continue to help disabled guests and maintain a safe environment on the bus. I agree about getting off the bus last- I don't mind at all as it's easier and safer for all concerned, but I expect an easy/safe loading experience as well. I look forward to hearing more reports.---Kathy
 
Believe me, I can see several rows back in the line. I do sit higher up and have pretty good viability.

Not to be argumentative but I really doubt a drive can see me in a mainstream line with people surrounding me. In my chair I am butt level with the surrounding people who are standing. My chair is small and so am I. I am frequently overlooked when I am in the chair. This is at WDW and outside. You combine a small power wheelchair with a little person and you are constantly overlooked.
 
Could you explain to my why people in an EVC or wheelchair get preferred access to a ride and yelling at the CM gets access twice to the ride and we the "healthy" persons have to wait patience for one ride?
Again I needed to use an wheelchair and got preferred access and thought it was ridiculous and disgusting.

I thank Disney they made an end to this.

People in wheelchairs or ECVs don't get preferred access but sometimes they do get alternative access. Sometimes it is because the line is not accessible at all or only partially accessible. What you do not see is the person often waiting longer for an accessible vehicle or in a separate area. Often I wait longer than those not in a wheelchair.

And I can vouch for having to wait for more than just one bus. It has happened to me several times. Once at DTD I waited for close to 2 hours for a bus to get me back to my resort. After the 5th missed bus s relief driver took pity on me and made sure I got on the 6th bus. By that time I was frozen and in tears.
Another time I was with my kids and we waited for 5 buses to get to the MK because they could not take my chair.
I am not looking forward to this new system at all.
 
I just don't get the problem.
Disabled persons would like to get EQUAL TREATMENT not preferred so why not wait the same time as "healthy" persons?
And no I will not give up me seat for a wheelchair or EVC because I'm fighting cancer although I look healthy.
I need my seat just as much as a EVC person would need it. I just have to get in line and wait for our turn.
Sorry but this whole I'm in a wheelchair or EVC does not qualify you for preferred treatment.
1) When Guests in wheelchairs and ECVs are able to board buses before Guests on foot, it becomes apparent to Guests on foot which seats are then available for them.
2) There are either three, six or (rarely) nine spaces needed to tie down wheelchairs and ECVs. There are MANY, MANY MORE seats than this on any bus. Simply CHOOSE A SEAT NOT MARKED THAT IT MAY BE NEEDED FOR A WHEELCHAIR.

Disneyadore said:
Could you explain to my why people in an EVC or wheelchair get preferred access to a ride and yelling at the CM gets access twice to the ride and we the "healthy" persons have to wait patience for one ride?
You see what you want to see. Most times, Guests using wheelchairs/ECVs stay in the same line as all other Guests and wait exactly the same amount of time. Occasionally, when the line or the loading area wasn't designed for handicap access, these Guests are directed to a different route - usually after waiting some time in the regular line with everyone else.

Sometimes, sure, this gets them on an attraction faster. Many times, though, they end up waiting LONGER than the Guests in the regular line. Could be too many disabled Guests already on that attraction. Could be all the wheelchair seating is full for that show. Could be two parties need to use the ramp on the Safari, so one party has to wait for that truck to make a full (two week) safari before they can board - while Guests on foot are boarding and departing as fast as they can get to the loading platform.

As for 'yelling at Cast Members', I've never heard that - or heard of it - but likely what's being yelled, if anything, is, "CAN we ride again?".
 


Can anyone tell me what the new rules are and which ECV are no longer allowed on buses? I ordered large ECV from Apple Scooters and now wonder if that will be allowed.

Hi, GrammyJudy. I don't really know the real rules, but KPeverler wrote in a sticky near the top of the Disabilities board with some information about different companies that rent scooters that I listed below.

Out of curiosity, what was the scooter that you rented from Apple?

I know that the Apple Company rents two types of scooters. One of them is called the Go Go Elite Traveller scooter and here is a link to a brochure showing what it looks like to take apart and the specifications for the 3 and 4 wheel versions below.

The 3-wheel Go Go Elite Traveller scooter measures 36.5 inches long and 19.25 inches wide.

The 4-wheel Go Go Elite Traveller scooter measures 39.75 inches long and 19.25 inches wide.


http://www.applescooter.com/pdf/GoGoEliteTraveller.pdf

The 3-wheel Pride Victory 10 Super Deluxe Scooter scooter measures 45.875 inches long and 22.25 inches wide.

The 4-wheel Pride Victory 10 Super Deluxe Scooter scooter measures 47.0 inches long and 22.25 inches wide.

http://www.applescooter.com/pdf/Victory10.pdf

Both of these scooters will fit into the WDW white rectangle which is measured 30 inches wide by 48 inches long from the outside of the white lines and not the inside of the white lines.


Apple Scooters: All scooters will fit.

Randy's Mobility: They do not state it specifically, but judging by photographs and the models they do say they rent, all scooters will fit.

Walker Mobility: They do not state it specifically, but they appear to use only Pride products, which means all scooters will fit.

CareMedical: They do not list the manufacturers of their scooters.

Buena Vista Scooters: All scooters will fit.

Scootarama: All scooters will fit

Scootorlando: All but the Dream Scooter should fit, though they do not give specific models. I know that their website says that the Dream will fit, but per a Transportation CM here on the board, bus drivers have been instructed not to load them, and the company has apparently been notified.

I hope that this helps you feel better about fitting your scooter in that WDW white rectangle. Your scooter should fit just fine and will definitely be allowed on any WDW bus, boat launch, and monorail.

The transportation at WDW will use a ramp on the boat/bus or lift on the older bus.

There is one boat that is very small at WDW and has an obvious two steps down into the boat that will not allow any scooter to roll in because of the physical step down steps.

I love riding the boats from MK to VWL and WCG and from Epcot to BWR to B&YCR to S&DR to DHS. I also enjoy driving the very nice sidewalk to the same areas.

Here is a photo of my Pride Revo 3 wheel portable scooter which is

42 inches long and 24 inches wide.

th_Picture003.jpg


This photo was taken at the Pop Century Resort

I like the Pop Century Resort layout for entering the bus line better than any other resort or park at WDW. Their different bus stops are spread out and not right next to each other.

I have always preferred the three wheel scooter over the four wheel scooter for manuvering in tight places like the inside the bus or bus main lines or WDW park attraction main lines with sharp turns.

I usally always drive to WDW from home and park my car for the duration of my stay. I do this because I love the WDW bus/boat/monorail transportation system and use them during my entire trip.

Even though my Pride Revo scooter is easy to dissassemble and reassemble in and out of my car, it can get very tiring at the end of a long day.

Hence, I love WDW and their transportation systems.

Again, this is just my opinion and preference for myself.

Please let anyone here know if you have any other questions or worries.

You will enjoy your travels at WDW using a scooter because you can go anywhere that a walker can go as far as outside the parks like visiting the resorts and DTD.
 
Maybe you should look at life as I do. Take every day with a "golden glow" and don't let trivial things spoil your day. After all what's an half hour waiting on a whole life?
FYI I used a wheelchair.

No comment at the above post directed to me as I will keep my thoughts to myself. Has anyone had any further experiences to report? The more I thought about the change the more I am concerned about the bus drivers dealing with w/c and ECV guests as well as others in the midst of the queue line when we start to board. I don't relish the looks on other Guest's faces when they are asked to move or when they are worried about our driving ability! I know I'm a great w/c driver but many who are new w/c or ECV users here have expressed concerns about "what others will think" and I can't imagine that raising their anxiety level is a good thing. I really hope this is one of the changes that, like the seating issue at Pecos Bill, will end quickly or be modified to actually continue to help disabled guests and maintain a safe environment on the bus. I agree about getting off the bus last- I don't mind at all as it's easier and safer for all concerned, but I expect an easy/safe loading experience as well. I look forward to hearing more reports.---Kathy[/QUOTE][/quote]

Kathy, guess you just got your first than. As we all know, one reports isn't a lot. Especially not when you also consider into this that I used the busses very little in our 6 oct. days. Let's see what I can recap........
- return SSR-MK times 2
- one return SSR-DHS
- one return SSR-Epcot
- ah, and let's not forget that one trip on the DME

A lot, right!? :lmao::rotfl2::rotfl:

Anyhow; NO difference noticed. What so ever. Period. And I happened to be at MK twice during shift changes (read; like dozens of drivers hanging around) and once at Epcot. Heck, didn't know about this thread, no chance has been made public to such an extend I heard/read it while at The World. As such, I'ld do as I've always done; use the wheelchair waiting area and follow drivers directions. Guess what? I always boarded first, offloaded last.

No difference noticed what so ever. Not one driver telling me to use a mainstream line, none of those dozens I ran into during those shift changes. They definately noticed me alright, I'm sure hoping they weren't chitchatting to me, not seeing me and talking to imaginary friends and then go on and drive busses. :littleangel:

Had some of the usual whispers, but as always; that's not my problem. Had the same whenever a hint of my GAC would show; again not my problem. No difference AT ALL compared to the 2 weeks in september. OK, let's not fib; it started getting A LOT bussier around the resort and thus some busses just before Food&Wine opened. But no difference what so ever in loadingprocedures what so ever.

I had one "incident" in our first week (read, first bus I tried to get on). One of the old busses with lifts they want you to back up onto. Totally understand that and why. As we all know those busses are LOAD when beeping, deafening almost. :upsidedow I tried to explain to the driver I understood what he was saying and why, but that my chair actually carries it's weight in the front and middle and driving on frontward and out backwards actually is the only safe way to load me on such a bus. Didn't want to hear it and went into a tantrum a toddler would be proud off. :lmao: Told him to go on loading other guests waiting, I'ld take my time waiting for another bus. Out of nowhere a transport arrangemente dude (haven't got a clue what his function was, just me talking here) pops out of the woodworks and asks me what is going on. Explained things, understanding safety, training, the drivers mostly seeing chairs that are not set up this way but it would be nice to be heard before a driver flat out goes a ranting. Had a great talk about different types of chairs, drivers being trained this way but also being told to communicate with guests as all aids are different and within no time a new bus showed up for us. Had the best driver on there I've ever met. If you ask me, it was one of those "had to be" things, so I could run into him. Had a blast on that ride. :goodvibes


As far as the explaining, asking, defending, whatever over and over again until your keyboard will die; let's keep the keyboard alive. This discussion will still be around long after all of us have gone to Disney Heaven permanently. Some will never get it, others are too overly protected about whatever, yet another has a crush on the M and E letter etc. etc. This is one of the many pets for whenever anybody feels like a good old DIS drama discussion. Whatever. Wax your back, but some lubricant on it and let it just slide off. A lot easier for the keyboards and everybody.
 
The wheelchair loading policy did not change.

The number of guests with the wheelchair did (not really, the number of guests allowed to board through the back doors was set at 6 total guests months before)

You still wait in the wheelchair loading area in resorts that have one or in/near the painted box. We will still load you first if there is room for you. 5 other guests in your party will be allowed to board with you, any other guests will need to use the standard queue. You may choose to wait until the rest of your party will be in a position to ride with you. We will not move them ahead of other guests to make sure they ride with you.

Thank you for posting on these boards. I really enjoy reading your posts and threads.

I usually travel alone and so I don't have guests loading with me when I board a bus or boat or monorail.

I was very pleased with many of the WDW Bus drivers that helped me on my past trip. I usually make a point of noting a name of a bus drivers name and bus number so that I can later send in a compliment via email to wdw.guest.communications@disneyworld.com on how good of a job that they did and what they did. And I always go out of my way to thank them when I arrive and depart their bus for there good service.

I have always tried to do this for all of those drivers that do a great job communicating with the walkers questions at their front door and for me, and for a good attitude, good technique for strapping down my scooter showing experience in doing it correctly, etc..

I only make good comments to those that do a good job.

I rarely comment on a driver that, I just assume was having a bad day unless I felt that particular driver did something very inappropriate by word or deed to someone else.

But this last trip, so many WDW bus drivers and WDW boat captains were so very good at communicating and smiling and properly strapping down my scooter on the bus that after the 4th day, I actually forgot to write down their names.

I'll have to do better on my next trip in December and note their name, city, and bus number when I first see their name tag and greet them. I just write in my pda calendar under the current date and time the information to help me write a complimentary email later when I have internet access.

If you come up to a bus stop and we are already loading the bus and there are still guests in line, I will ask you to wait for the next bus. That is being fair. If I stopped loading the guests that were waiting first, that's not fair to them and probably not safe, either. That would be providing preferential treatment.

I completely agree with you. Sometimes when I see that if I am about to arrive at a bus stop, I will hold back driving into the scooter/wheelchair spot if the bus driver has already parked and opened the doors so that I can take the next bus. I think that this is only fair if other walkers have been waiting.

As far as the rule SueM was referring to, that was the policy at one time, but it was not mentioned at the training we had on the new policies, so maybe that has changed. From a fairness standpoint, I would agree with that rule but from a practicality standpoint, if I can squeeze several standee guests on a full bus, I think that I should be allowed to. If I load standee guests but cannot load a wheelchair, I will call my coordinator for a bus to come and pick up the wheelchair.

I also agree with you, and thank you when you call another bus. I will sit in my scooter instead of getting up and sitting on a bus seat on those instances when the line is very long for the walkers. I don't mind waiting for another bus because I am so grateful to have the services provided by WDW.

I don't know of any other place in the would that is so helpful and provide such great transportation while on my vacation. I never have to disassemble my scooter at WDW. I can just drive it to my WDW resort room and go anywhere at WDW to any park or to any resort and anyplace else at WDW.

I'll bend over backwards to help out those who are in a wheelchair (and me bending over backwards is not a pretty sight!) but I need for you to be understanding that I'm trying to help all guests equally.

The intent of the rules is to allow equal access, not preferred access.

Again, I agree with you and thank you for your posting and comments and services.
 
Here is my take on the mainstreamed queues, If a wheelchair is in line and it is determined that are in a position to make the bus, I'm going to pull you out of the line and load you first, because it is safer for all guests but you have got to be already in the line. I don't care how long it takes, I get paid by the hour. You just can not roll up and expect us to drop everything to load you IF there is already a line there. This is where some of the problems have been, a full line is already in the queue and a scooter wheels up and demands to be loaded. They are in effect, cutting the line.

Hi, again, cranbiz.

This is just my personal opinion.

I think that I will like and prefer the mainstream lines when waiting for a WDW bus.

I have always mainstreamed when using the boat launch when leaving MK on the Ferry or leaving MK on a boat launch to WLR or leaving MK to get on the monorail. I never have had to catch a second Ferry. Some times, I may need to wait for another boat launch or wait for another monorail because the boat launch or monorail spaces are full, but the walker may have many seats left over. I understand this.

I know that the Ferry and boat launch and the monorail are not the same as the limited space on a WDW bus.

When I am at Epcot at closing, the Pop Century and neighboring bus lines are very long.

The Epcot Pop Century and neighboring bus lines stops are right next to each other with no extra space like you might see at MK with there extra metal four foot fence separating the bus stops and added directions for wheelchairs/scooters.

At Epcot, if the lines are pretty empty, I used to enter the next bus stop entrance line to access the HC wheelchair/scooter unmarked area for the Pop Century bus stop and that the bus drivers usually like us to park.

But when the line is occupied, I can't due this.

So, I enter like a mainstream queue at the WDW Epcot park bus stop.

I really like this and I feel very comfortable and I feel like that I am just like everyone else.

I wait in line just like all of the walkers.

When I get to the very front of the line because the bus has already started loading, the bus driver usually just directs me to my left to the usual HC unmarked space to catch the next bus.

I like doing this.

I don't mind waiting for the next bus, because I usually have to wait for another bus anyway at Epcot when there were other wheelchairs/scooters waiting to be loaded to the maximum of two spots.

And I understand on the very busy closing times when the WDW bus system stacks or parks their bus next to each other so more walkers can load to get back to their resorts. I realize how unsafe that it would be to drive a wheelchair/scooter around the back of one bus and try to load the second or third bus that was in the main street area is very unsafe and can be confusing.

So, I usually may have to wait my turn for the next bus or so.

But just speaking for myself, I feel so much less stress from other walkers when I can mainstream any bus line or attraction line.

Most of the time when mainstreaming in a bus line at Epcot, and a bus driver sees me even in the second row behind other walkers; he will come out of the bus and tells everyone to please let me drive by them so that he can load me first.

Remember, I was in line with all of the other walkers. Every single time this has happened, all of the guests were very accomodating and kind because I was in line with them and they saw that from where I was in the second row that there was plenty of room for everyone in front of me to be able to load the bus.

I really like this much better than looking like to the other walkers that I am breaking in line if they were already waiting in line, and then I just roll up.

I know that I am not breaking in line, but many people never use bus transportation in their life at home and just use their cars and may not be aware of the situation and I understand that.

I also saw the extra pole with the extra rope with a clipon metal clasp that was on the far left side of of the Epcot Pop Century bus stop on the first row of the queue line. On the far right side of the first row there is no rope because this is where all of the walkers enter the front door of the bus.

But this extra piece of rope and pole and rope clasp did not have any instuctions.

I looks like a place that a bus driver or a wheelchair/scooter owner could unclasp the rope and let rope down to park in the usual, Epcot Pop Century bus stop unmarked wheelchair/scooter space.

I have never had a WDW castmember allow any guest to unclasp any rope in any line queue to enter any area.

But this is what this looked like.

Maybe in the future a bus driver will unclasp this rope and ask a wheelchair/scooter to come through and then they would reattach the rope to the metal pole.

I hope that they put up an instruction somewhere that everyone can see what will be going on as they pass this spot.

I didn't do this. It seems to me this would look just as bad to the walkers a breaking in line because there are no instructions at all.

I would much rather stay in mainstream line with all of the walkers and board the bus as I described above.

But this is just my preference and my opinion.

Thank you again, cranbiz for posting all of your great information. I hope that I get to use your bus some day when I am at Pop Century this December.
 
Kathy, guess you just got your first than. As we all know, one reports isn't a lot. Especially not when you also consider into this that I used the busses very little in our 6 oct. days. Let's see what I can recap........
- return SSR-MK times 2
- one return SSR-DHS
- one return SSR-Epcot
- ah, and let's not forget that one trip on the DME

A lot, right!? :lmao::rotfl2::rotfl:

Anyhow; NO difference noticed. What so ever. Period. And I happened to be at MK twice during shift changes (read; like dozens of drivers hanging around) and once at Epcot. Heck, didn't know about this thread, no chance has been made public to such an extend I heard/read it while at The World. As such, I'ld do as I've always done; use the wheelchair waiting area and follow drivers directions. Guess what? I always boarded first, offloaded last.

No difference noticed what so ever. Not one driver telling me to use a mainstream line, none of those dozens I ran into during those shift changes. They definately noticed me alright, I'm sure hoping they weren't chitchatting to me, not seeing me and talking to imaginary friends and then go on and drive busses. :littleangel:

:wave2:

Hello!

I was just wondering if they have already changed something back?

MK, DHS and DME didn't have any changes when I was there - it was just Epcot at that point. All other resorts and parks had the old loading system.

But are you saying that your Epcot line was not roped off like the one they had us go through for POP? It wasn't a mainstream line?

Did you get on the bus after Illuminations? Or was it in the middle of the day? Was there a line for the bus?

I am just curious if anything has changed.
 
So I take it not all the places have the mainstreamed queues yet.

I don't know an official answer to your question, but when I was at WDW recently I did not see any instructions about mainstream in queue lines.

I did not see anything official near any of the bus stops that state that this mainstream queue is going to be started or has even started.

I have heard bus drivers talk about it starting, but I physically have not seen any mainstream queues.

When I was at Pop Century resort, the bus lines had not been changed. The metal poles and chains instead of rope to make the lines for the queue. They still had a separate entrance for the wheelchair scooter, but they did add the white rectangle in this separate entrance at each Pop Century bus stop. Here is a picture of my Pride Revo 3-wheel scooter that is 42 inches long and 24 inches wide.

th_Picture003.jpg


And instead of a chain on the front row there is a metal sheet of decoration instead of a rope or chain except for the wheelchair/scooter entrance. I guess that they could move the chain to make it mainstream queue, but it would seem like they would have to move the wheelchair/scooter white lines on the pavement, too. If you you look close on this picture, the chains next to the wheelchair/scooter entrance do not have clasps to move the chain to main the bus queue mainstream. But they could cut the chain and reattach the chain to easily make the bus stop a mainstream queue. I don't have any idea how they will make this look, but I like the Pop Century Resort bus stops and how well that they are spread out from one bus stop to the next.

th_Picture001.jpg


What do you do at the resorts (especially) where when the bus pulls up everybody "pushes" to get on because there is no designated line in place?

Until they make the changes, I would do the same thing that I usually have always done as the WDW bus driver suggests. And that is to park near the front without going in the street or falling off the curb if there is one where the back bus door would stop. Or if that is not possible because of a crowd, then move further to the left, but still close to the curb/street so that you can wave to the bus driver as he drives up to your stop so that you can indicate that you would like to catch his bus to go to a particular park. They usually tell everyone to let you load.

And with the mainstreamed queues (which again, I have not seen) how can you see if there is a scooter if they are behind the first row of people - we sit lower, and the driver would have people disembarking blocking their view. I have been sitting in the "chair loading spot" before and my husband has had to go tell the driver I was there before because they would start let people loading after the others had gotten off and never even acknowledged I was there. (no - not all drivers - there have been wonderful ones, and terrible ones and many more somewhere in between...)

From my experience on my last visit I did not see a mainstream queue.

But several years ago, I think that when they added more WDW resorts/DVC's, they moved the Epcot Pop Century Resort bus stop right up next to the next Epcot resort's bus stop with no extra space between them like you might see at Pop Century Resort bus stop or MK bus stop.

As I described in an earlier post, if the line was almost empty, I would drive through the next Epcot resort's bus stop entrance line to get to the Epcot Pop Century bus stop unmarked HC wheelchair scooter spot near where the bus back door might stop.

If the lines were pretty full, like at Epcot closing, I couldn't do this, so I would just go through the main line with all of the walkers.

I plan on going through the Epcot Pop Century bus stop main line with all of the walkers everytime now.

Most of the time the WDW bus driver saw me even in the second row and directed the other guests to let me drive by them to get on the bus.

Less frequently, a bus driver may not have seem me in the first row and when I got to the front of the line where the walkers would climb on the bus, the WDW bus driver would direct me to my left where the unmarked HC wheelchair scooter spot near where the bus back door might stop. Then I could wait for the next bus.

This is just my own experience.

Maybe my real question should be - just how do the mainstreamed queues work?

I don't know the official answer to your question, but as I posted in a previous post, I also saw the extra pole with the extra rope with a clipon metal clasp that was on the far left side of of the Epcot Pop Century bus stop on the first row of the queue line. On the far right side of the first row there is no rope because this is where all of the walkers enter the front door of the bus.

But this extra piece of rope and pole and rope clasp did not have any instuctions.

I looks like a place that a bus driver or a wheelchair/scooter owner could unclasp the rope and let rope down to park in the usual, Epcot Pop Century bus stop unmarked wheelchair/scooter space.

I have never had a WDW castmember allow any guest to unclasp any rope in any line queue to enter any area.

But this is what this looked like.

Do you stay in the regular line the whole way then go to the back of the bus to load when it's your turn?

This just my own experience, as I described earlier. Sometimes I was pulled out of the line and was loaded. Sometimes I waited to the side if they were already loading.

Or do you (as I understand) get siphoned off to another line at some point and then wait behind the other WC/ECVs?

This is what happened to me. I didn't go to another line. I was either pulled out before bus loading walkers at Epcot Pop Century bus stop or if the bus was loading walkers, I was directed to wait for the next bus on the side. But since the wheelchair/scooter goes in the main line. it is the luck of the draw if another wheelchair/scooter is near you in line. It depends on when the wheelchair/scooter entered the main line and how many people had entered after I had entered.

And if it's the second scenario - how does the driver know at what point you got siphoned off?

This is just my opinion, but if I were pulled other to the side by the previous bus driver, then I would load on the next bus.

If someone drove around the old way instead of going in the main line, I don't say anything. I just assume that they don't know because there really were no instructions.

I just stay in line and wait my turn.

I guess that if they go to this new system they will have clear instructions posted at bus stops for the walkers and the wheelchair/scooter owners.

How do you know whether they are in the middle of the line and just got to that point, or whether they just missed the last bus (too full - or both slots already taken) and have been sitting there longer than the people standing in line :confused3

I don't know. I just try to be patient and wait my turn.

Or better yet - why don't they just run monorails to all the various locations - I can roll right on to those ;)

I like the monrails, too.
 
I wish I had a picture of the beginning of the queue at Epcot for the POP - basically it is line 12 (I think??) and the line begins with only one way to enter it... There is no easy way to by pass it. You follow it all the way down past the other stops and it is mainstreamed.

This picture shows the mainstreamed line roped off...
photo-82.jpg



photo-81.jpg


And that picture shows people waiting in the line...see how wide it is? Easily fits a wheelchair (or double stroller, etc).

But this was the only mainstreamed line I encountered. (And waited for the FIFTH bus after the people I was in line with got on theirs.)
 
Kathy, guess you just got your first than. As we all know, one reports isn't a lot. Especially not when you also consider into this that I used the busses very little in our 6 oct. days. Let's see what I can recap........
- return SSR-MK times 2
- one return SSR-DHS
- one return SSR-Epcot
- ah, and let's not forget that one trip on the DME

A lot, right!? :lmao::rotfl2::rotfl:

Anyhow; NO difference noticed. What so ever. Period. And I happened to be at MK twice during shift changes (read; like dozens of drivers hanging around) and once at Epcot. Heck, didn't know about this thread, no chance has been made public to such an extend I heard/read it while at The World. As such, I'ld do as I've always done; use the wheelchair waiting area and follow drivers directions. Guess what? I always boarded first, offloaded last.

No difference noticed what so ever. Not one driver telling me to use a mainstream line, none of those dozens I ran into during those shift changes. They definately noticed me alright, I'm sure hoping they weren't chitchatting to me, not seeing me and talking to imaginary friends and then go on and drive busses. :littleangel:

Had some of the usual whispers, but as always; that's not my problem. Had the same whenever a hint of my GAC would show; again not my problem. No difference AT ALL compared to the 2 weeks in september. OK, let's not fib; it started getting A LOT bussier around the resort and thus some busses just before Food&Wine opened. But no difference what so ever in loadingprocedures what so ever.

I had one "incident" in our first week (read, first bus I tried to get on). One of the old busses with lifts they want you to back up onto. Totally understand that and why. As we all know those busses are LOAD when beeping, deafening almost. :upsidedow I tried to explain to the driver I understood what he was saying and why, but that my chair actually carries it's weight in the front and middle and driving on frontward and out backwards actually is the only safe way to load me on such a bus. Didn't want to hear it and went into a tantrum a toddler would be proud off. :lmao: Told him to go on loading other guests waiting, I'ld take my time waiting for another bus. Out of nowhere a transport arrangemente dude (haven't got a clue what his function was, just me talking here) pops out of the woodworks and asks me what is going on. Explained things, understanding safety, training, the drivers mostly seeing chairs that are not set up this way but it would be nice to be heard before a driver flat out goes a ranting. Had a great talk about different types of chairs, drivers being trained this way but also being told to communicate with guests as all aids are different and within no time a new bus showed up for us. Had the best driver on there I've ever met. If you ask me, it was one of those "had to be" things, so I could run into him. Had a blast on that ride. :goodvibes


As far as the explaining, asking, defending, whatever over and over again until your keyboard will die; let's keep the keyboard alive. This discussion will still be around long after all of us have gone to Disney Heaven permanently. Some will never get it, others are too overly protected about whatever, yet another has a crush on the M and E letter etc. etc. This is one of the many pets for whenever anybody feels like a good old DIS drama discussion. Whatever. Wax your back, but some lubricant on it and let it just slide off. A lot easier for the keyboards and everybody.
[/quote]

As you know we have the same wheelchairs and I've had the same discussion, and heard the same ranting about how I should back up in my chair vs. drive forward, explaining to each driver that Permobil prefers that you NEVER back up due to where the weight is distributed. I've had some drivers humiliate me and some understand what I'm saying and allow me to proceed w/o any grief. I also understand that they've been told things that apply to other chairs and are just following safety guidelines. I can understand their dilemma as they are responsible. As to the new procedures I figure if necessary I'll just wait off to the side like I've always done. For me, I don't want to navigate to the front of the line through a crowd of people- it's not safe. I also don't want to wait for the next bus if I've arrived early enough that I know there will be space for me plus the guests who may have arrived before me. After years of riding on the busses, I know how to gauge that.----Kathy
 
I guess waiting longer for a bus doesn't bother me. We did run into the mainstreamed lines at Epcot. Plain and simple, you get in the regular line, then you pop out at the wheelchair opening. Then you wait on the next bus to arrive and you board that bus first. Yes, there will probably be folks in behind you that get on board before you, but so what?

Honestly, I think the only time that will be a problem is park closing, so you get to bed a little later?? In the middle of the day when you may be going to another park or going to another resort for dinner and may have a time schedule, there will not be enough folks in the bus line for it to be an issue.
 
:wave2:

But are you saying that your Epcot line was not roped off like the one they had us go through for POP? It wasn't a mainstream line?

That's correct. It was bus stop nr 2, for SSR. It was stil chains (could've gone through that if I desired, by the way). As it's the first stop on that part of busplatform, I just tend to wait to the side of the chained lines. So kinda behind the wheelchairloading spot. When a bus would drive up, driver would signal me if I wanted to go to SSR, I'ld nod yes and they'ld proceed to load me first. Just realised I was fibbing earlier. I went to DHS twice, but left DHS once by going to the Boardwalk area and hopping on a bus at Epcot. So I guess it was 1.5 times at both DHS and Epcot in oct. No difference I could find to our first 2 weeks in september.

Did you get on the bus after Illuminations? Or was it in the middle of the day? Was there a line for the bus?

Middle of the day, max. line of 8 individuals. So those could've easily boarded without making it unsafe for me to load later. I tend not to do park closures or openings. Did one at MK, when they closed for the regular parks to go into MNSSHP mode. (had to pick something up) That did have a line, but again directed towards the loading spot we all have come to known and loaded first. That was ended up having like 3 folks standing on them.

I am just curious if anything has changed.
Who knows? Even we seem confused! ;) Time will tell.


Kathy; that mentioned driver was a real outstanding one, not the good way. Ran into a fair amount of the old busses (more than you'ld expect, figure wise with all the new ones) but after a talk no driver had a problem with me loading front first. Always told me "you know best, just want to keep you safe and the lift in one piece".

I'm with you though on the side loading procedure. Line aint safe for me. It's not for nothing Disney put some things in place to take care of my specific needs in the first place. Heck; I do not want a renter ECV/wheelchair user boarding "mainstream". We all know not all of them can "master" the aid to perfection. It's only obvious which aid is rented, not which renter is a capable driver and who isn't a capable driver when it comes to busloading until they are actually loading.

No way I want that latter group loading onto a bus with folks in there if it doesn't have to be (like they loaded at an earlier bus stop). Not safe. I know I will be called on this by renters, but because you simply can not see by looking at somebodies face if a renter is capable of parrallel parking on the bus easily or not I always let renters board before me. Call me whatever anybody sees fit, but I'ld rather be sure nobody accidently runs into my chair if I boarded first because they're struggling to make that parkingmove. I'll even offer to the driver to take the front spot (harder to navigate), but I'll board after the rented ecv/chair.

Don't get me wrong; it is GREAT that renting an aid is so easy. It's great folks can get around. But it's a worry for all of us (including the renter him/herself) if the user has serious problems boarding the bus. I don't blame the driver, can understand the nerves building when having to board and knowing it could be difficult, I know how not easy it can be when you're new to it and with these confined spaces. I really do. But for me bottomline is safety and in that case I'll always offer renters to board before me.

If only for that very simple reason, I think mainstream loading is asking for problems. Soon.

Reason number 2? This trip there have been an amazing amount of times folks would NOT move (in mostly empty busses) when told by the driver to allow enough space for me to safely enter the bus. Believe me, combine my drivingskills and my chair and I need very little space to board but I need some. I don't want to crush Little Suzy that's allowed to run around the bus by mom and dad. I don't want to crush your toes eventhough you refuse to remove them after being told so by a driver.
 
Scenario 1. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. Driver looks towards rear of bus and it seems to him it would be too cumbersome to go back and load the wheelchair guest now. So he closes the door and takes off pursuant to federal law. Everyone on the bus cheers "yippee, we aren't squashed like sardines!."

Scenario 2. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. Driver sees that if people moved around a little he could get out and load the wheelchair guest. WHen he does so the others on the bus refuse to move. Driver stands there transfixed, stalemated (or as if pause was pressed on the DVD player). (If the next bus comes before guests on the bus cooperate, then the driver steps back down the back steps and escorts the wheelchair guest to said next bus.)

Scenario 3. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. The bus is far from full but it seems to the driver he will have difficulty loading the wheelchair guest. Driver in exchange for being allowed to let others come from behind and fill the bus, offers that guest (invent this tomorrow) a card allowing him and his family to cut any one ride line once.

Now the driver will probably be reprimanded for "wasting time" or even "obstructing traffic" in scenario 2, hence that scenario does not happen.

>>> She has problems loading the scooters on the buses because she can't turn her head to see where she is going. We have learned that she needs to tell the driver to let me on and I will park her. Most will do and those that don't take way to long to try to navigate her by yelling at her. And yes I mean YELLING! <<<

Bring it up with Guest Relations upon arrival at your destination. There needs to be an additional caption or stamp that can be put on a Guest Assitance Card to handle this situation.
 
Scenario 1. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. Driver looks towards rear of bus and it seems to him it would be too cumbersome to go back and load the wheelchair guest now. So he closes the door and takes off pursuant to federal law. Everyone on the bus cheers "yippee, we aren't squashed like sardines!."

Scenario 2. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. Driver sees that if people moved around a little he could get out and load the wheelchair guest. WHen he does so the others on the bus refuse to move. Driver stands there transfixed, stalemated (or as if pause was pressed on the DVD player). (If the next bus comes before guests on the bus cooperate, then the driver steps back down the back steps and escorts the wheelchair guest to said next bus.)

Scenario 3. Wheelchair comes up to on deck circle in mainstreamed line. The bus is far from full but it seems to the driver he will have difficulty loading the wheelchair guest. Driver in exchange for being allowed to let others come from behind and fill the bus, offers that guest (invent this tomorrow) a card allowing him and his family to cut any one ride line once.

Now the driver will probably be reprimanded for "wasting time" or even "obstructing traffic" in scenario 2, hence that scenario does not happen.

>>> She has problems loading the scooters on the buses because she can't turn her head to see where she is going. We have learned that she needs to tell the driver to let me on and I will park her. Most will do and those that don't take way to long to try to navigate her by yelling at her. And yes I mean YELLING! <<<

Bring it up with Guest Relations upon arrival at your destination. There needs to be an additional caption or stamp that can be put on a Guest Assitance Card to handle this situation.

I am not sure what your point is, but I will say a GAC is not for transportation.
 
I guess waiting longer for a bus doesn't bother me. We did run into the mainstreamed lines at Epcot. Plain and simple, you get in the regular line, then you pop out at the wheelchair opening. Then you wait on the next bus to arrive and you board that bus first. Yes, there will probably be folks in behind you that get on board before you, but so what?

Honestly, I think the only time that will be a problem is park closing, so you get to bed a little later?? In the middle of the day when you may be going to another park or going to another resort for dinner and may have a time schedule, there will not be enough folks in the bus line for it to be an issue.

See, as Sue mentioned, everyone's needs are different. Maroo already said that she waited for FIVE busses. Why should I pop out of the mainstream line and wait for a second bus while everyone behind me gets to board? I am on a ventilator with a battery life and also tire very easily. Sometimes I don't realize just how long it will take me to get out of a park or I am suddenly in great pain. As to going to bed a little later, it's a very big deal for me. Not one size fits all.---Kathy
 
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