Need to vent! School Days Missed

[pacrosby]

I'm not asking this to be rude or to be condescending, but how hard can it really be for a parent to teach a child what they are missing in school? I mean, we've all been there. I've been to college. I feel like you're making it sound more challenging than it is or has to be. But, like I said, I haven't been in the public school system in over 20 years, so I'm sure things must have changed quite a bit. I have a difficult time grasping that the lesson plans are so complicated that it would make it impossible for me to teach the material or my child to learn the material by reading a book.

Is there an actual example? The only thing I could see being difficult for me is literature or labs. Literature because I genuinely suck at it and labs because they cannot be easily replicated.

I think what confuses me is the notion that a teacher doesn't know what they will be doing. I thought there was a curriculum; a certain amount of material that has to be covered in a semester. You pretty much have to stick to a plan to get it all in don't you? You can't just say, "oh oh, we ran out of time so we won't be learning that this semester." There are standards that have to be met.

Of course I do understand that things get more complicated in upper grades especially with certain classes. But generally speaking, I don't know.

I've said pretty much everything it all already so I'm not going to repeat myself. Just wanted to throw that out for comment.

 

[princessmom29]

I think what confuses me is the notion that a teacher doesn't know what they will be doing. I thought there was a curriculum; a certain amount of material that has to be covered in a semester. You pretty much have to stick to a plan to get it all in don't you? You can't just say, "oh oh, we ran out of time so we won't be learning that this semester." There are standards that have to be met.

Of course I do understand that things get more complicated in upper grades especially with certain classes. But generally speaking, I don't know.

I've said pretty much everything it all already so I'm not going to repeat myself. Just wanted to throw that out for comment.

Ther is a curriculum, and standards to be met, but there is still some leeway as to HOW the standards are to be ment. I teach upper level science so I will give an example form there. We are working on projectile motion in physics. I normally do a cannon lab for that topic, but many of my students this year are interested in midevil histroy and have brought up catapults in clas discussion. I have changed the problem sets I am giving, and am changing the lab so that we can build catapults rather than cannons. The same concept will be taught, just in a different way. That is what I mean when I say I can give you an overview, but the specifics will change. If I had given the work out a week ahead, the student that missed class will work the wrong problem set, will not be prepared for the lab, and will likely do poorly on the test becuase he/she didn't do the same practice problems as the rest of the class because we shifted focus within a topic. The concept is the same, but it was presented in a totally different manner. I would think it could be even more dramatic in the lower grades becuase standards are much broader.

 

[Teacher03]

I think what confuses me is the notion that a teacher doesn't know what they will be doing. I thought there was a curriculum; a certain amount of material that has to be covered in a semester. You pretty much have to stick to a plan to get it all in don't you? You can't just say, "oh oh, we ran out of time so we won't be learning that this semester." There are standards that have to be met.

Of course I do understand that things get more complicated in upper grades especially with certain classes. But generally speaking, I don't know.

I've said pretty much everything it all already so I'm not going to repeat myself. Just wanted to throw that out for comment.

Teachers do know what they are doing, but plans can change day to day. A fire drill can take 15-20 minutes, maybe long division is taking longer for the class to grasp than usual, there are many things that can complicate even the best, well thought out lesson plans. And just because a teacher runs out of time on Monday or Tuesday doesn't mean that the standards aren't being covered.


I think we are all thankful that you are done repeating yourself.

 

[turtlechick6]

I know that the teacher would give me the assignments and chapters to cover while I was out. When I came back my one hour of work a day would put me ahead of the classroom! I would come back ahead of the class so my one hour of work was more than a whole day of instruction for them!

Someone asked what "Model student" meant. To me it means always making star roll or honor roll. I won the "Good Citizenship" award every year which was only awarded to one girl per class. I was always picked for stuff like teacher's aide or academic teams. I never got into trouble. I was always one of the favorites of my teachers. I will jump for joy if my kids turn out like I did. Again I did all this while taking out about 5 days in a row per year for family trips plus random mental health days plus sick days plus smaller trip days. I was even had a learning disability. It would have been a crime to fail me because of my missed days when everything else I did was excellent.

 

[pacrosby]

Ther is a curriculum, and standards to be met, but there is still some leeway as to HOW the standards are to be ment. I teach upper level science so I will give an example form there. We are working on projectile motion in physics. I normally do a cannon lab for that topic, but many of my students this year are interested in midevil histroy and have brought up catapults in clas discussion. I have changed the problem sets I am giving, and am changing the lab so that we can build catapults rather than cannons. The same concept will be taught, just in a different way. That is what I mean when I say I can give you an overview, but the specifics will change. If I had given the work out a week ahead, the student that missed class will work the wrong problem set, will not be prepared for the lab, and will likely do poorly on the test becuase he/she didn't do the same practice problems as the rest of the class because we shifted focus within a topic. The concept is the same, but it was presented in a totally different manner. I would think it could be even more dramatic in the lower grades becuase standards are much broader.

Thanx for the clarification. I think what's becoming clear to me is that high school CAN be a big problem if kids miss a number of consecutive days of school. But I highlight CAN because not all kids take the same classes and not all classes are presented in the same manner. As far as lower grades, are yhou actually trying to suggest that elementary school could be more dramatic? As far as what I see in my children's school I'd have to respectfully disagree. I've watched 3 kids enter Kindergarten and now the oldest is in 5th grade. They clearly follow a very set plan that hasn't changed much from year to year. It's kind of funny as I see the same homework assigned year after year. I can almost predict what's coming next LOL

 

[pacrosby]

I think we are all thankful that you are done repeating yourself.

Did that make you feel better?


Actually the pp had led me to believe she was talking about getting alot more than 30 - 60 minutes behind. Getting that far behind is not going to impact the overall weekly plan. No disrespect intended but we gotta all try and follow the bouncing ball if we are going to keep our comments relevant to the conversation at hand (not easy on this thread I know, but necessary )


and btw repeating yourself is when you say the exact same sentences over and over again. I believe most of my posts were more varied than that and offered up a fair amount of food for thought (unless I was responding to someone who had quoted me directly and had clearly appeared to miss the point; it's not my fault if people aren't really thinking while they are reading or haven't been following along). Interesting that it's always ok for people to beat a dead horse if they agree wtih you. If I had a dollar for every poster on your 'side' who has repeated the exact same sentence over and over again LOL Just because you don't like what someone has to say doesn't make it worthless to everyone. All you had to do was skip over the post when you saw my avatar.

 

[princessmom29]

Thanx for the clarification. I think what's becoming clear to me is that high school CAN be a big problem if kids miss a number of consecutive days of school. But I highlight CAN because not all kids take the same classes and not all classes are presented in the same manner. As far as lower grades, are actually trying to suggest that elementary school could be more dramatic because as far as what I see in my children's school I'd have to respectfully disagree. I've watched 3 kids enter Kindergarten and now the oldest is in 5th grade. They clearly follow a very set plan that hasn't changed much from year to year. It's kind of funny as I see the same homework assigned year after year. I can almost predict what's coming next LOL

that is sad, and would be really bothersome to me. DD's elemntary school has dynamic curriculum plan. They have been teaching Spanish for several years, but in response to the infulx of Greman students they have changed the currilculum to include German instead becuase it is now more relevant for the students. Assignments change based on student interest within reason. A conetent standard about identifying mammals, reptiles, and amphibians camn be approached in a multitude of ways, and even differently by different students. They work for the platform that students are more apt to put in best work and gain deeper understanding of a concept when working on something they are interested in. They have much more "wiggle room" to make that happen in lower grades than I have. There are only so many ways I can approach quantum mechanics, but there are so many different ways to teach, say additon, or pattern recognition. The possiblities truly are endless with the little ones.

 

[pacrosby]

that is sad, and would be really bothersome to me. DD's elemntary school has dynamic curriculum plan. They have been teaching Spanish for several years, but in response to the infulx of Greman students they have changed the currilculum to include German instead becuase it is now more relevant for the students. Assignments change based on student interest within reason. A conetent standard about identifying mammals, reptiles, and amphibians camn be approached in a multitude of ways, and even differently by different students. They work for the platform that students are more apt to put in best work and gain deeper understanding of a concept when working on something they are interested in. They have much more "wiggle room" to make that happen in lower grades than I have. There are only so many ways I can approach quantum mechanics, but there are so many different ways to teach, say additon, or pattern recognition. The possiblities truly are endless with the little ones.

IDK, call it sad but it's no secret that Massachusetts is ranked tops in the country as far as education is concerned (according to a 2006/7 ranking Massachusetts was 2nd and I see that Alabama was 45th and Florida, the other state that's mentioned alot here, was 29th.......and no I'm not trying to be rude and insulting, I'm just relaying the facts). I'm not saying that our school teaches according to script, just that the curriculum is in place and they stick to it. They must be doing something right don't you think? If it's not broke why fix it?

And don't read malintent into this please but......the repetitive insinuations that my school somehow must not measure up are getting kind of old LOL (and I'm not specifically pointing my finger at you) I think the ranking speaks for itself and the MCAS test in Massachusetts is among the most rigorous standardized test in the country and passing it is required for graduation. I'm not living in Podunk Idaho here where the classes are held in the cornfields and the kids learn addition by stacking cow patties (sp?). Trust me, with the exception of our sped department in our elementary school (LOL that's another topic), my children are in very good hands and I have no doubt that they are receiving an excellent education and will be well prepared for their future

 

[heatherwillmom]

usually if I take my kids out of school for vacation, it is a day or two just before a scheduled school break. I used to not do this since my kid are in high school now, but they were always coming home & telling me that since so many kids & teachers had started their vacation early, they didn't do anything in class. They spent a lot of time watching movies. i would rather take them out & start our vacation early than them stay at school & just watch a movie.

 

[princessmom29]

IDK, call it sad but it's no secret that Massachusetts is ranked tops in the country as far as education is concerned. I'm not saying they teach according to script, just that the curriculum is in place and they stick to it. They must be doing something right don't you think? If it's not broke why fix it?

the way I see it: If they keep doing it at some point it will "break" becuase what they are doing will no longer have any relevance, and they are going to start loosing kids earlier and earlier. DD's school is not public, but if you compare SAT10 scores, they are very competitive nationally, so a dynamic model can work just as well if not better. A curriculum in palce and doing the same canned activities and assignments over and over are two very different things. If you know what assignments are going to be sent home before you get them year after year, then I think that school is going to lose it's relevance at some point if things don't change.

 

[princessmom29]

And don't read malintent into this please but......the repetitive insinuations that my school somehow must not measure up are getting kind of old LOL The MCAS test in Massachusetts is one of the most rigorous standardized tests in the country and ipassing it s required for graduation. I'm not living in Podunk Idaho here where the classes are held in the cornfields and the kids learn addition by stacking cow patties (sp?). Trust me, with the exception of our sped department in our elementary school (LOL that's another topic), my children are in very good hands and I have no doubt that they are receiving an excellent education and will be well prepared for their future

I am not attacking, just trying to explain that most educators find a dynamic and changing curriculum to be one of the better ways to reach students. Just becuase your school doesn't do that doesn't make it horrible, but I do feel that their approach will eventually backfire at some point if they are truly rigid enough that they do not deviate from the same sequence of assignemts over several years. I still maintain that the BEST (not only) way to actively engage students in learning it to have a curiculum that responds to their needs and interests, not something rigid and unchanging becasue that is the way it has always been done, and it has worked in the past.

 

[KingRichard]

What if a child was sick for those few days?

If a child misses a few days, then it is the schools that must work with the parents/students to make up the work.

If the child is willing put forth the effort, then the school needs to also.

I will be taken my 2 oldest out for 2 days before vacation and 1 day after. I would really like it to be 2+2 why? $400!

Yes that is the cost of flight prices for just 1 day. If they only missed 2 days and sent them home on Sunday it would cost $900 more!

Sometime you just don't have a choice. I trust my children to make up the work and we all benefit with some extra cash.

 

[ccgirl]

IDK, call it sad but it's no secret that Massachusetts is ranked tops in the country as far as education is concerned (according to a 2006/7 ranking Massachusetts was 2nd and I see that Alabama was 45th and Florida, the other state that's mentioned alot here, was 29th.......and no I'm not trying to be rude and insulting, I'm just relaying the facts). I'm not saying that our school teaches according to script, just that the curriculum is in place and they stick to it. They must be doing something right don't you think? If it's not broke why fix it?

And don't read malintent into this please but......the repetitive insinuations that my school somehow must not measure up are getting kind of old LOL (and I'm not specifically pointing my finger at you) I think the ranking speaks for itself and the MCAS test in Massachusetts is amoung the most rigorous standardized test in the country and passing it is required for graduation. I'm not living in Podunk Idaho here where the classes are held in the cornfields and the kids learn addition by stacking cow patties (sp?). Trust me, with the exception of our sped department in our elementary school (LOL that's another topic), my children are in very good hands and I have no doubt that they are receiving an excellent education and will be well prepared for their future

Another Massachusetts resident here. I think it is fair to say that not all school districts in Massachusetts are created equal. You mention the MCAS test as a good thing. I see it the opposite. I have many friends that are teachers here that now teach to a test rather than to a subject matter. Where is the critical thinking there? I think it is sad that the state of MA does not let students graduate that do not pass the MCAS. My sister, while very intelligent and went to a very prestigious MA college, did not test well and did miserable on her tests (inluding SAT's). So, while you say it is not fair to let people fail a student for missing too many days, apparently it is fair to not let a child graduate that cannot pass 1 test. I did not like that, so I chose to send my child to a private school. Bottom line, we have choices. If you can't abide by the rules of your child's school, choose a new one that can abide by their rules.

 

[pacrosby]

the way I see it: If they keep doing it at some point it will "break" becuase what they are doing will no longer have any relevance, and they are going to start loosing kids earlier and earlier. DD's school is not public, but if you compare SAT10 scores, they are very competitive nationally, so a dynamic model can work just as well if not better. A curriculum in palce and doing the same canned activities and assignments over and over are two very different things. If you know what assignments are going to be sent home before you get them year after year, then I think that school is going to lose it's relevance at some point if things don't change.

It's K-5 for Pete's sake LOL. The time to build the foundation. And why would you go to the extreme and make the assumption that they never have/never will make modifications to the curriculum? Learning to tell time is learning to tell time. Phonics is phonics. Addition is addition. Subtraction is subtraction. The solar system is the solar system. The Pilgrims are the Pilgrims. Let's see then there's the water cycle, basic government, meteorology, local history, decimals, fractions, states and capitals.......need I go on? Do you honestly see a time when learning that information will no longer be relevant? Not in our lifetime.


Edited to add: I noticed your last post after I wrote this. Sorry! Again as I like to say...point taken and respected

 

[ccgirl]

What if a child was sick for those few days?

If a child misses a few days, then it is the schools that must work with the parents/students to make up the work.

If the child is willing put forth the effort, then the school needs to also.

I will be taken my 2 oldest out for 2 days before vacation and 1 day after. I would really like it to be 2+2 why? $400!

Yes that is the cost of flight prices for just 1 day. If they only missed 2 days and sent them home on Sunday it would cost $900 more!

Sometime you just don't have a choice. I trust my children to make up the work and we all benefit with some extra cash.

I think the key point her is excused abscence (sickness) vs. unexcused absense (depending on the # of days). A lot of schools all vacation are unexcused. I don't think it is fair to say a shcool should put forth the extra effort to help a child get caught up when they were absent for vacation. At least you are honest and admit you are doing it to save money not so it can be an educational experience. I do the same. I pull my children out during value season as well. Have fun!

 

[pacrosby]

Another Massachusetts resident here. I think it is fair to say that not all school districts in Massachusetts are created equal. You mention the MCAS test as a good thing. I see it the opposite. I have many friends that are teachers here that now teach to a test rather than to a subject matter. Where is the critical thinking there? I think it is sad that the state of MA does not let students graduate that do not pass the MCAS. My sister, while very intelligent and went to a very prestigious MA college, did not test well and did miserable on her tests (inluding SAT's). So, while you say it is not fair to let people fail a student for missing too many days, apparently it is fair to not let a child graduate that cannot pass 1 test. I did not like that, so I chose to send my child to a private school. Bottom line, we have choices. If you can't abide by the rules of your child's school, choose a new one that can abide by their rules.

oh no no no!!!!!!!!!!! I never "said" the MCAS was a good thing. I just said it existed. That's a whole other topic for another day!!

And of course all schools, even here in top-rated Massachusetts, are not created equal. That's common sense. Would you like specifics on my town? If I wasn't so fearful for my life I might actually consider giving it to you LOL You'll just have to trust me when I say we're not sitting on the bottom of the barrel.

Please please please stop people, stop taking liberties with what I have said ( and lest you misunderstand, saying that I said the MCAS was good and that it was fair to not let a child graduate that cannot pass one test is taking liberties with what I've said)

 

[sam_gordon]

Sometime you just don't have a choice.

No, you ALWAYS have a choice... don't go on vacation during that time. Yes, I've heard the arguments... "but that's the only time DH/DW can get vacation", "it's too expensive/crowded/hot other times", "Disney is educational", etc. While those are all reasons (valid to some, invalid to others) why to take vacation during the school year, there's nothing FORCING anyone to do so.

 

[taylor3297]

Sent in our educational leave form for my dd for our trip in December last week. In her folder today, I received a copy of it back, with approved written on it.

Closer to trip time, I am going to meet with her teacher so I can get the objectives my dd will miss, and so I can finish creating lesson plans for the week.

 

[ccgirl]

oh no no no!!!!!!!!!!! I never "said" the MCAS was a good thing. I just said it existed. That's a whole other topic for another day!!

And of course all schools, even here in top-rated Massachusetts, are not created equal. That's common sense. Would you like specifics on my town? If I wasn't so fearful for my life I might actually consider giving it to you LOL You'll just have to trust me when I say we're not sitting on the bottom of the barrel.

Please please please stop people, stop taking liberties with what I have said

No need to tell me where. No business of mine. Not taking liberties. Just respectfully disagreeing. Lets just agree to disagree on this.

 

[Leajess99]

I don't advocate thumbing your nose at the school. I don't personally think I would pull my kids out of school for 10 consecutive days. However, in the end my kids' teachers miss far more school than my kids do and this is ok because they are at meetings? I don't agree. As a parent, I am asked to schedule appointments and vacations around school, why can't the school schedule their meetings around classtime?

Just curious but do you really think the teachers plan these meetings?? Our teachers have meetings on days when kids are NOT in school (they added more off days this year and at least one a month specifically for teacher's meetings and training) unless it is for an IEP and then they have to work around numerous people's schedules to include the parent's schedules. Sometimes it is just NOT possible to schedule around the school day.

I know a lot of teachers that hate meetings and would so much rather be in the classroom than in the meeting. Comparing teachers having meetings to kids missing for vacation just does not work. Teachers are at their job. If your job said you cannot take 10 days off for vacation do you go anyway?? Do you never have a meeting at your job??