Need to vent! School Days Missed

[Leajess99]

In my understanding most teachers are required to have their lesson plans completed way ahead of time usually by a whole month or at least two weeks ahead of time. So the teacher should already KNOW what the kids will be studying and working on during a vacation. The most I would probably keep my kids out would be 5 days consecutively per year and most teachers will already have their lesson plan prepared a week ahead of time.

Again I think it has a lot to do with if the teachers like you and your child and are willing to help out. Since my mom put a lot of classrooms hours in as a volunteer the teachers were more than willing to return the favor.

Just curious but have you ever had to change plans based off of someone else's (namely a child's) needs?? Teachers may have their lesson plans ready a month in advance but then several students to the majority of the class are confused and need more time going over the information. This results in the lesson plan no longer being valid and needing to be changed. On Monday we find out what my youngest daughter's class will be doing for that week of school and what her spelling words are. Since I know MY child I know how to prepare her for what they are studying and how best to help her. Not everyone else's child is the same as mine so I cannot say how well or what works for them. If the teacher feels they are not comprehending than he will slow down and find another way to teach the subject. This may cause my daughter some boredom but then she may also get more out of learning it a different way.

Kids don't all learn the same way. I have 3 different kids with 3 different learning styles and I have to adjust how I try to help them understand their assignments. One child is a visual learner while one is a tactile learner while the youngest has not yet really shown the best way she learns yet so I incorporate several methods for her. Just because all 3 of my kids are extremely smart and above grade level does not mean all 3 are always doing great in school.

 

[Leajess99]

I'm not asking this to be rude or to be condescending, but how hard can it really be for a parent to teach a child what they are missing in school? I mean, we've all been there. I've been to college. I feel like you're making it sound more challenging than it is or has to be. But, like I said, I haven't been in the public school system in over 20 years, so I'm sure things must have changed quite a bit. I have a difficult time grasping that the lesson plans are so complicated that it would make it impossible for me to teach the material or my child to learn the material by reading a book.

Is there an actual example? The only thing I could see being difficult for me is literature or labs. Literature because I genuinely suck at it and labs because they cannot be easily replicated.

You may really want to learn the new math if you have to ask how complicated it is as that is some crazy stuff. And by the way, what book will you be using as I know the schools my kids are in do NOT send home books as they are limited on the number of books they have and can not afford to have kids lose them especially when they are being used by more than one class. Many school districts do not have the funding to buy enough books for every student in the grade needing them. Funding keeps getting cut for schools around the US and they do feel it. The consequences are larger class sizes, less qualified teachers, less staff and aids, less supplies, ect.

 

[Leajess99]

Ther is a curriculum, and standards to be met, but there is still some leeway as to HOW the standards are to be ment. I teach upper level science so I will give an example form there. We are working on projectile motion in physics. I normally do a cannon lab for that topic, but many of my students this year are interested in midevil histroy and have brought up catapults in clas discussion. I have changed the problem sets I am giving, and am changing the lab so that we can build catapults rather than cannons. The same concept will be taught, just in a different way. That is what I mean when I say I can give you an overview, but the specifics will change. If I had given the work out a week ahead, the student that missed class will work the wrong problem set, will not be prepared for the lab, and will likely do poorly on the test becuase he/she didn't do the same practice problems as the rest of the class because we shifted focus within a topic. The concept is the same, but it was presented in a totally different manner. I would think it could be even more dramatic in the lower grades becuase standards are much broader.

We did this in my College Physics class that I had to take when going for a degree in computer programming (still unsure why a computer programmer needed physics but I had fun in that class). It was fun to see the different catapult designs. I even let my girls play with it to explain the concept to them (they were in preschool and 4th grade at the time).

 

[Leajess99]

Thanx for the clarification. I think what's becoming clear to me is that high school CAN be a big problem if kids miss a number of consecutive days of school. But I highlight CAN because not all kids take the same classes and not all classes are presented in the same manner. As far as lower grades, are yhou actually trying to suggest that elementary school could be more dramatic? As far as what I see in my children's school I'd have to respectfully disagree. I've watched 3 kids enter Kindergarten and now the oldest is in 5th grade. They clearly follow a very set plan that hasn't changed much from year to year. It's kind of funny as I see the same homework assigned year after year. I can almost predict what's coming next LOL

I sure would not be pleased if I were in your shoes and having my kids have the same assignments year after year since things do change. My oldest is in 12th grade, middle is in 7th and youngest is in 2nd. The oldest and middle have gone to the same schools for 5th through 7th grade (not at the same time of course) and none of the homework or assignments have been repeated. Do your kids all have the same teachers that the older children have had?? The only things my middle and youngest did that were the same in Kindergarten (same school only 5 years apart) were the crafts and field trips. Things changed and even the intelligence of children have changed.

 

[maxiesmom]

This is actually quite amusing and proves every point I made in that pm. I did not take it 'public' because it was 'private'. It was not nasty, it was pointed. And 'hatred'....that's an awfully strong word. The fact that you would follow up that pm with this kind of public comment, for no reason other than to attempt to humiliate me and make me run into hiding, hey, that says it all.

In the future I would suggest you not make snarky comments towards others and accuse them of being insulting and having nothing meaningful to say without expecting some sort of backlash. At least I had the maturity not to turn it into a public display. Sheesh.

I would rather this be out on the public forum than continue to recieve your nasty (yes they are nasty!) Pms. Three is quite enough, thank you.

I have no idea why you have decided to focus on my comments, as checking back I have only quoted you once in the last 24 hours, not the multiple times you claim. Many posters have quoted you and disagreed with you way more than that. Are they too being subjected to your PMs, as you don't want to insult them here? If I behaved like that, I wouldn't want it to be out in public either.

We disagree, and that is fine. That is what a discussion board is for. But I don't think anything I have posted here deserves a PM telling me I "have an axe to grind", am "twisitng your words", "nitpicking" or "making pointless comments". It is not mature at all to send someone PMs like that, because you don't agree with my point of view.

I say to you again, I have no idea what I have done to deserve such behavior from you. I said nothing snarky to you, other then wondering why you started making mean comments about people and their reading abilities. That is the only comment I can see that you could say was "snarky". And I believe another poster even tried to explain what I meant, when it upset you. If you can't have an open discussion about issues in which other people share an opposing point of view, without resorting to being mean, then maybe you shouldn't be on a message board which is all about sharing different points of view.

 

[maxiesmom]

I think the key point her is excused abscence (sickness) vs. unexcused absense (depending on the # of days). A lot of schools all vacation are unexcused. I don't think it is fair to say a shcool should put forth the extra effort to help a child get caught up when they were absent for vacation. At least you are honest and admit you are doing it to save money not so it can be an educational experience. I do the same. I pull my children out during value season as well. Have fun!

Our local schools don't even count all sick days as excused absenses. A friend of one of my nieces is struggling to pass her classes, as she had a 2 week stretch where she was home sick. We are talking vomiting to the point she had to go to the hospital sick.

What makes it really bad is that exams were just coming up. And there is a rule that if you fail the exam, you fail the class, no matter what your scores on any quizzes or tests you had during the year. One lovely teacher even refused to send her any work home.

It is truly strange to me that all schools are allowed to handle things so differently.

 

[spacemountainmom]

Just curious but do you really think the teachers plan these meetings?? Our teachers have meetings on days when kids are NOT in school (they added more off days this year and at least one a month specifically for teacher's meetings and training) unless it is for an IEP and then they have to work around numerous people's schedules to include the parent's schedules. Sometimes it is just NOT possible to schedule around the school day.

I know a lot of teachers that hate meetings and would so much rather be in the classroom than in the meeting. Comparing teachers having meetings to kids missing for vacation just does not work. Teachers are at their job. If your job said you cannot take 10 days off for vacation do you go anyway?? Do you never have a meeting at your job??

I never said the teachers planned the meetings. However, they seem to be in a lot of them. There were 10 teachers out of our building today. The entire math staff was gone and almost the entire science department. My son basically had a study hall for math class. School started September 7th and this is the second time the teacher has been out of the building for meetings.

My point is that attendence responsibilities do not seem to be the same for students and teachers. If a student misses 10 days, they are turned in for truancy. If a teacher misses 10 days - that's ok. The teacher missing class for 10 days is far more disruptive to the overall learning than one child missing 10 days.

Again - I DON'T BLAME TEACHERS!!! Most teachers that I know are hard-working and dedicated. My kids have had mostly (with just a couple of glaring exceptions) fantastic teachers. My dd15 still idolizes her second grade teacher and wants to teach second grade.

I just want someone to explain to me why teachers missing so much class is ok and it's not ok (and can be criminal) for students to miss that much school.

 

[Scurvy]

I just want someone to explain to me why teachers missing so much class is ok and it's not ok (and can be criminal) for students to miss that much school.

The students can still receive instruction if the teacher is not there, from a substitute. The students can not receive instruction when they are not in the classroom. It is possible for a teacher to have a substitute teach in her place; it is not possible for a student to have a substitute learn in his place.

That's one reason teachers have to prepare their lesson plans several weeks ahead of time - so the substitute will know what they are supposed to be doing. Ideally the teacher will also alter the plans as they have to change the schedule based on the students needing more or less time than anticipated on the different lessons. If instruction isn't taking place when the teacher is out, that's a separate issue, and is a problem with the substitute or the plans that the teacher left. In essence, teachers are interchangeable. Any teacher can present the information to the students. Students are not interchangeable. Each one has to learn for his or her self. It is legally required that a teacher be present in the classroom, but not that a specific teacher be present. On the other hand, each specific student is legally required to be in school.

 

[pacrosby]

I sure would not be pleased if I were in your shoes and having my kids have the same assignments year after year since things do change. My oldest is in 12th grade, middle is in 7th and youngest is in 2nd. The oldest and middle have gone to the same schools for 5th through 7th grade (not at the same time of course) and none of the homework or assignments have been repeated. Do your kids all have the same teachers that the older children have had?? The only things my middle and youngest did that were the same in Kindergarten (same school only 5 years apart) were the crafts and field trips. Things changed and even the intelligence of children have changed.

5 - 7 is different than K-5. And obviously I don't mean every homework assignment is 'exactly' the same (well, obvioulsy it's not really that obvious, huh?).

And even if I did why should I be concerned that the math fact sheet with apples on it is the exact same math fact sheet with apples on it from 2 yrs ago? It's math. Or if a solar system project my daughter did in the Spring of 3rd grade comes up again in the spring of 3rd grade for my son? The solar system is studied in 3rd grade. All kids learn about the solar system (I hope!). The same 'child' isn't doing the same homework!

Ugh LOL

 

[pacrosby]

I would rather this be out on the public forum than continue to recieve your nasty (yes they are nasty!) Pms. Three is quite enough, thank you.

I have no idea why you have decided to focus on my comments, as checking back I have only quoted you once in the last 24 hours, not the multiple times you claim. Many posters have quoted you and disagreed with you way more than that. Are they too being subjected to your PMs, as you don't want to insult them here? If I behaved like that, I wouldn't want it to be out in public either.

We disagree, and that is fine. That is what a discussion board is for. But I don't think anything I have posted here deserves a PM telling me I "have an axe to grind", am "twisitng your words", "nitpicking" or "making pointless comments". It is not mature at all to send someone PMs like that, because you don't agree with my point of view.

I say to you again, I have no idea what I have done to deserve such behavior from you. I said nothing snarky to you, other then wondering why you started making mean comments about people and their reading abilities. That is the only comment I can see that you could say was "snarky". And I believe another poster even tried to explain what I meant, when it upset you. If you can't have an open discussion about issues in which other people share an opposing point of view, without resorting to being mean, then maybe you shouldn't be on a message board which is all about sharing different points of view.

No that's not exactly 'what' I said nor was it 'how' I said but if it's fun for you to try to portray me as some sort of evil witch you go girl.

And for the record the first pm was my initial statement of concern and lack of appreciation. My second was in response to you telling me you had 'no idea what I was talking about'. That one specifically told you I would go back and check to see if I had made a mistake and that I would return a pm pronto and apologize profusely if I had (what is nasty about that?). The third was to come back and say no I wasn't mistaken and specify which posts I was referring to. That's called clarification. Nope, nothing nasty there either.

btw: my reading comprehension "joke"? It was directed at EVERYONE on this thread because of some of the crazy stuff people put out there. They are obviously not reading carefully or else they are having difficulty following along. It was a joke (did you see the little laughing emoticon?) Lighten up alittle, will you?


Bottom line is my desire was not to deal with this publicly since it's not a public matter but I have no choice to defend myself. If you continue so will I. The ball's in your court.

 

[Becky2005]

Also keep in mind that they don't receive the financial aid for students who not are in class, so this could be the reason that more schools are cracking down on this..

Hope it works out okay for you..

Oh, I'm 99.9% sure that IS the reason. My child was out on homebound medical leave (i.e. you would think getting a teacher from the school for medical leave would count as being "in school") and I got one of the "your child is missing too many days of school" -- umm..DUH..look at your records guys, you are PAYING her teacher to come to our house.

It's also the reason that on the very last day of school the kids go for 1 HOUR -- the only reason any sane person makes that schedule up is to get the federal money that says you have to have X attendance days and after 1 hour you can count that as a 1/2 day. You have to know the teachers don't want to have the kids for that hour any more than the kids want to wake up early to go sit and watch a movie for 1 hour at the school.

 

[zus888]

Kids don't all learn the same way. Just because all 3 of my kids are extremely smart and above grade level does not mean all 3 are always doing great in school.

This is a really excellent point and not something I had considered. I will have to remember this as my kids go through school.

Also, I'm stunned that there aren't enough books for all the kids. What the heck has happened to our school systems??? Granted, I'm glad there won't be back problems carrying all those heavy loads, but I find it so strange that they don't have books for every child.

 

[turtlechick6]

I am going to have to argue with the person that said students still recieve instruction when the teacher is out from the sub. I was a sub for middle and high school for two years. I can tell you I pretty much never taught a thing. I was not even asked to. I was told to hand out worksheets and dittos, put on movies, etc. Most of the time I was just crowd control. That was all the teachers really expected of me. I am just there to make sure kids don't skip, cause fights, trash the classroom etc.

So I beg to differ that they still learn something those days. They really didn't. Most kids never even did the dittos that were handed out.

Also just to clarify to be a sub in my state all you must have is a high school degree! I did not have a teaching degree. I was not a qualified teacher. I was college educated and therefore I could help the students a little bit but I had zero teaching knowledge. In my state people that can't work regular jobs do subbing because you can make your own hours and it is easy work for alright pay. The students don't learn anything on sub day.

 

[palavra]

I am going to have to argue with the person that said students still recieve instruction when the teacher is out from the sub. I was a sub for middle and high school for two years. I can tell you I pretty much never taught a thing. I was not even asked to. I was told to hand out worksheets and dittos, put on movies, etc. Most of the time I was just crowd control. That was all the teachers really expected of me. I am just there to make sure kids don't skip, cause fights, trash the classroom etc.

So I beg to differ that they still learn something those days. They really didn't. Most kids never even did the dittos that were handed out.

Also just to clarify to be a sub in my state all you must have is a high school degree! I did not have a teaching degree. I was not a qualified teacher. I was college educated and therefore I could help the students a little bit but I had zero teaching knowledge. In my state people that can't work regular jobs do subbing because you can make your own hours and it is easy work for alright pay. The students don't learn anything on sub day.

You realize this is just your experience, right? At my school, the subs we use the most are retired teachers, and one was even a headmaster as well. Not only can they follow a lesson plan when I have to be out, they often add in their own teaching ideas, and we certainly encourage that. Crowd control may be all that is done at some schools, especially large high schools, but not at my school.

 

[daisyduck123]

I am going to have to argue with the person that said students still recieve instruction when the teacher is out from the sub. I was a sub for middle and high school for two years. I can tell you I pretty much never taught a thing. I was not even asked to. I was told to hand out worksheets and dittos, put on movies, etc. Most of the time I was just crowd control. That was all the teachers really expected of me. I am just there to make sure kids don't skip, cause fights, trash the classroom etc.

So I beg to differ that they still learn something those days. They really didn't. Most kids never even did the dittos that were handed out.

1st grade teacher here

I can assure you that my students always receive instruction when I am out. As a matter of fact, I just returned to my classroom today from being out for 7 days due to my daughter's hospitalization. My substitute was able to follow my plans, use my Teacher's Guide for Language Arts & Math, and keep my students up with my pacing guides.

At my school, we do not leave "busy" work for substitutes. There are several substitutes who are "regulars" in our building and sought after by the teachers because they do well at their jobs.

I know you subbed in middle & high schools. I have a child at each of those levels myself, & they do mention now & then, that they did not do much with their subs. That is definitely NOT the case in my elem. classroom though.

**Btw, one of the substitutes I use most often in my classroom is my school's former, retired reading teacher. She is the one that trained our entire staff on our school's current reading program. Believe me, my students get a lot accomplished when she is in there.

 

[Teacher03]

You realize this is just your experience, right? At my school, the subs we use the most are retired teachers, and one was even a headmaster as well. Not only can they follow a lesson plan when I have to be out, they often add in their own teaching ideas, and we certainly encourage that. Crowd control may be all that is done at some schools, especially large high schools, but not at my school.

I agree. I spend hours on plans when I know I am going to have a sub in my room...detailing every minute of the day. I expect the subs to teach and they appreciate the fact that I trust them to do so.

Turtlechick6, I'm not faulting you at all...you can only do what you are told. But this is not the norm from what I have experienced.

 

[heatherwillmom]

My kids say that the subsitute teachers that they have never teach anything. They basically sit there & hand out work sheets. A lot of teachers start their vacations early so I say we should be able to as well. I don't take my kids out of school much, but I don't see anything wrong with it. When they are younger, it isn't that difficult to make up the work. My kids are good students A's & B's.

 

[princessmom29]

I am going to have to argue with the person that said students still recieve instruction when the teacher is out from the sub. I was a sub for middle and high school for two years. I can tell you I pretty much never taught a thing. I was not even asked to. I was told to hand out worksheets and dittos, put on movies, etc. Most of the time I was just crowd control. That was all the teachers really expected of me. I am just there to make sure kids don't skip, cause fights, trash the classroom etc.

So I beg to differ that they still learn something those days. They really didn't. Most kids never even did the dittos that were handed out.

Also just to clarify to be a sub in my state all you must have is a high school degree! I did not have a teaching degree. I was not a qualified teacher. I was college educated and therefore I could help the students a little bit but I had zero teaching knowledge. In my state people that can't work regular jobs do subbing because you can make your own hours and it is easy work for alright pay. The students don't learn anything on sub day.

Most of the subs we use in our school are retired teachers, and we try to keep them in thier content area if at all possible. I can assure you that if I have a planned absence, my students are getting instruction while I am gone from a certified teacher. If that were not the case I would not be out of class. Sometimes it just cannot be helped when a teacher has to call in sick due to illness or sick kids, but we never plan it that way. None of this is required, but it is what our school chooses to do becuase it is what our kids need. You can be a sub in our system with a hig school diploma and a background check, but our school only uses that kind of sub when NO ONE els is free to take the job.

 

[kaytieeldr]

5 - 7 is different than K-5. And obviously I don't mean every homework assignment is 'exactly' the same (well, obvioulsy it's not really that obvious, huh?).

And even if I did why should I be concerned that the math fact sheet with apples on it is the exact same math fact sheet with apples on it from 2 yrs ago? It's math. Or if a solar system project my daughter did in the Spring of 3rd grade comes up again in the spring of 3rd grade for my son? The solar system is studied in 3rd grade. All kids learn about the solar system (I hope!). The same 'child' isn't doing the same homework!

Ugh LOL

Interesting. You know the solar system about which kids are learning now is different from the solar system about which we learned, right? Different number of planets, and there's more information available about it now. Heck, there's more information today about the solar system than there was five years ago - so today's fifth-grader is learning different and more information than today's high school junior did six years ago! And "our" solar system contained a different number of planets than the one about which our parents/grandparents were taught - and we, too, had more information than they did. That's true of a LOT of science. History too; and geography - world geography moreso than U.S. geography, but still...

 

[Scurvy]

I am going to have to argue with the person that said students still recieve instruction when the teacher is out from the sub. I was a sub for middle and high school for two years. I can tell you I pretty much never taught a thing. I was not even asked to. I was told to hand out worksheets and dittos, put on movies, etc. Most of the time I was just crowd control. That was all the teachers really expected of me. I am just there to make sure kids don't skip, cause fights, trash the classroom etc.

So I beg to differ that they still learn something those days. They really didn't. Most kids never even did the dittos that were handed out.

Also just to clarify to be a sub in my state all you must have is a high school degree! I did not have a teaching degree. I was not a qualified teacher. I was college educated and therefore I could help the students a little bit but I had zero teaching knowledge. In my state people that can't work regular jobs do subbing because you can make your own hours and it is easy work for alright pay. The students don't learn anything on sub day.

That's very unfortunate. It doesn't work that way where I live. Unqualified substitutes are only called when there are no qualified teachers available, and that's very rarely the case. If I were a parent at the school where that sort of thing went on I would be quite annoyed. Unless there are no capable substitutes available, there's no excuse for calling in a substitute who can't teach.

You realize this is just your experience, right? At my school, the subs we use the most are retired teachers, and one was even a headmaster as well. Not only can they follow a lesson plan when I have to be out, they often add in their own teaching ideas, and we certainly encourage that. Crowd control may be all that is done at some schools, especially large high schools, but not at my school.

That's been the case in the systems I've been involved with, as well. Subbing is pretty competitive where I live now. There are lots of retired or unemployed teachers who substitute, and they are the ones who are called most of the time. Sure, occasionally there will be times when the school gets desperate and has to call the ones they'd prefer not to use - typically the height of flu season or the day of a teacher's funeral - but normally only the really good substitutes get called in. The students' first day with a new sub might not be terribly productive, but once they figure out that they can't get away with anything with that sub then things get better.