Need to vent! School Days Missed

[turtlechick6]

I am in the camp that if a student is doing well in their classes missing some days for family vacation and together time is perfectly okay. My parents always traveled during off seasons. I learned way more on our vacations than I ever could have learned in the classroom. I love teaching my kids real world field experiences. My classmates studied Mexico out of a book. I went to Mexico and saw the Mayan ruins firsthand and even climbed them! My friends studied Canada in a book. I traveled to Canada and explored Castle Loma and saw Niagara Falls with my own eyes and felt the spray as I went by it in a boat! You cannot mimic that kind of experience in a classroom!

My parents always volunteered at the schools and were nice to my teachers. The teachers never had a problem with me leaving school for the trips. They would send work home to complete and I would usually prepare a report with souvenirs and such to give to the class when I got back. Sometimes we just went to WDW but that can be educational too! Epcot is all about science and technology and foreign countries! I was even dyslexic and I still was able to make good grades and miss classes.

Once I got to middle school the long trips kinda stopped because school became harder and it was harder to miss several days in a row. I still took out days here and there for small trips or mental health days with my parent's permission all the way to when I graduated. I went to WDW every year with my dance troupe to perform in the parade and at a dance competition at the Tomorrowland stage! I am sorry but that kind of world experience is worth missing a few days of school over! What memories! It served me well too because never have I ever had stage fright or been afraid to give a speech in class because I performed in Disneyworld! If I could do that, I can give a class presentation!

I plan on taking my kids out of school when they are young for trips. We are a family of four living on one small income. We cannot afford to travel during peak season and I can't stand the heat or the crowds. I am fully prepared to make a scene if the school gives me trouble about it too. I would not pull my kids out if they were struggling but I doubt they will be. Even my child with special needs can probably handle being pulled out because even now he responds better to play and experiences than he does sitting down instruction time.

We are missing preschool for a week to go to WDW next week and my goal is to take them back to WDW again when they are around 3rd or 4th grade. They will miss school for it in September or October or November.

It is all about money. The schools get money for every day your child is there and that is all I believe it adds up to. Usually if the parents are helpful to the teacher, the teacher never minds preparing the work for them. Mine never did. If schools give me a hard time I am prepared to put them in private school or homeschool them too. I have a right to my children and I have a right to decide what is best for them, not the schools.

 

[wasnotafan]

It is all about money. The schools get money for every day your child is there and that is all I believe it adds up to. Usually if the parents are helpful to the teacher, the teacher never minds preparing the work for them. Mine never did. If schools give me a hard time I am prepared to put them in private school or homeschool them too. I have a right to my children and I have a right to decide what is best for them, not the schools.

We have a winner!

 

[maxiesmom]

I agree with you to a point. You can certainly choose to home school or send your child to a private school. However once you enroll your child in public schools you need to abide by the rules of that school system.

If you are lucky enough to be someplace that is fine with parents taking their kids out of school, then go for it. If you enroll you child in a school that gives zeros for missed work, you can still pull your child out. But you need to understand that there will be consequences for your decision.

You can't have it both ways. You can't enroll your child at a school that is strict, and then do what you want without penalty.

 

[sam_gordon]

At least with curfew or other house rules, they can be explained, and we can discuss a change if necessary and if they can argue their point well enough. I am perfectly capable of being a reasonable person.

Just for discussion sake...

Yes, house rules can be "explained" and/or changed. But, are you going to change the rules retroactively? In other words, let's say you have a 9pm curfew for your 15yo. 15yo comes in at 10pm saying "I'm old enough, my curfew should be 10!". Now, the 15yo may have a point and you decide to change the curfew. But do you punish the teen for not following the rules originally?

Whether or not we see it, a mandated attendance is there for a reason. I double checked my daughter's MS attendance policy, and it comes from state law (in other words, the school didn't set it). It plainly sets out what are excused absences, although it does give the principal some leeway: (

Other valid reasons as determined by the principal, i.e., court appearances, driver’s license - ½ day, and doctor/dental appointments.

) We get up to 8 days unexcused before the courts are called in. Now if I don't like this policy, I need to take it up with state lawmakers. I don't think it's a good lesson to teach our children "yes, I know what we're doing is against the rules, but I disagree with the rules." This is why I brought up the curfew example.

 

[maxiesmom]

That's not at all what I meant to suggest (I'm actually probably as confused by your last post as you were by mine). Wish I could try and clarify but since I promised not to further this discussion I simply cannot. I'm sorry if I just made things more confusing for you

Maybe you should try to clarify your point of view instead of stooping to sending people nasty, hate filled PMs. If you don't have the guts to post something publicly, maybe you shouldn't say it at all.

I had no problem with you personally, until you sent me your nasty message. I thought we were all discussing this subject as rational adults. No one has been mean or nasty. If you have a problem with my posts, put that here. But please don't send me mean PMs

As I told you in my reply PM I have no idea what earned me such hatred.

 

[okeydokey]

Hm.

Obviously, it is your right as a parent to take your child out of school for as long as you wish, but is it really fair for your vacation to cause the teacher to spend hours and hours gathering materials and writing lesson plans for you? (Writing out plans for a sub takes me about 2 hours for one day that I'm gone!) Personally, I would be upset about being asked to spend the amount of time required for preparing what would equal two weeks of sub plans for one child. Will your children get the same quality of instruction...and, if you're on vacation, will you really have the time to cover that material in a appropriate manner?

You may just need to reconcile yourself with the fact that your children will miss two weeks of instruction and it will most likely affect their grades and, at least in the short run, they'll be playing catch-up when they return.

I would never expect a teacher to spend hours preparing work for my kid if I chose to take them out of school for vacation. I figure if we choose to miss school, that's the consequence.

 

[turtlechick6]

In my understanding most teachers are required to have their lesson plans completed way ahead of time usually by a whole month or at least two weeks ahead of time. So the teacher should already KNOW what the kids will be studying and working on during a vacation. The most I would probably keep my kids out would be 5 days consecutively per year and most teachers will already have their lesson plan prepared a week ahead of time.

Again I think it has a lot to do with if the teachers like you and your child and are willing to help out. Since my mom put a lot of classrooms hours in as a volunteer the teachers were more than willing to return the favor.

 

[ccgirl]

I am confused about the number of posters that don't seem to think the rules are there for a reason. I think we all agree funding is partially determined by attendance. That is the reason for the blanket policy. What if multiple people took their kids out of school for 10 days? Funding would be cut then you would be complaining how the books weren't new or something else. You can't have your cake and eat it too. As I keep saying, I am not against taking students out of school. I have in the past, and will continue to do so as long as I am following the guidelines of the handbook. If you want to take your children out of school, yes you have the final say. Just, please don't "make a scene" because the school enforces their handbook policies.

OP - did you ever have that meeting with the principal? As I recall, the 10 day absence was within the guidelines of the handbook; but the principal still wanted to meet with you??

 

[maxiesmom]

OP - did you ever have that meeting with the principal? As I recall, the 10 day absence was within the guidelines of the handbook; but the principal still wanted to meet with you??

I'd like to know too. If you were within the guidelines, what did they want to meet about?

 

[zus888]

I usually do my best to work with the system before I buck it. The whole thing is messed up, in my opinion. And if I had any idea how to fix it, I would; but I don't, so I can't. It's unfortunate that many, if not most, parents don't take their children's education seriously or make it a priority. I do happen to take education seriously - seriously enough, in fact, that I spend a decent amount of time teaching at home, which is why my DS is ahead of his class. I made the effort to teach him to read, write, learn his letters, do simple math, etc. If he was struggling in class, I could understand why the district would be concerned about me taking him out for a vacation, but that is not the case. And, it seems it isn't the case with many of the poster's here. I don't see why it has to be so difficult to use rational thinking when approving or denying excused absences. The only problem that I could potentially see would be the risk of being accused of discrimination. I just find it intolerable that my child could be penalized for missing school when he is excels in his studies. The whole point of school is to teach children - not just the facts, but also how to learn and teach themselves - to think critically. It's not to just be present. I will never understand what difference it makes if the student is doing well.

As far as the curfew, I wish I could tell you what I would do. I'm not even close to being the mom of a teen. I'd like to say that I'd be rational and consistent, but if my track record is any indication, I'll be anything but! My oldest is only 6, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see!

 

[princessmom29]

In my understanding most teachers are required to have their lesson plans completed way ahead of time usually by a whole month or at least two weeks ahead of time. So the teacher should already KNOW what the kids will be studying and working on during a vacation. The most I would probably keep my kids out would be 5 days consecutively per year and most teachers will already have their lesson plan prepared a week ahead of time.

Again I think it has a lot to do with if the teachers like you and your child and are willing to help out. Since my mom put a lot of classrooms hours in as a volunteer the teachers were more than willing to return the favor.

lesson plans done a month in advance are worthless. What I plan to do the next day changes daily as I see how my students react to what is taught. We are only required to plan a week in advance, and even those plans change on a day to day basis. Alny good teacher should be doing the same. Teaching the same cookie cutter lesoons over and over without modification based on what the students are bringing to the table is poor teaching. I could give a general overview of what topics we will be covering, but I could never send work in advance for a 2 week trip. It just doesn't work that way IRL. A lesson plan for me to teach form, and a lesson plan a parent could use and make sense of are 2 very different things. A lesson plan is not a script to read from but rather a very general outline of where the lesson is going, what content we are covering, what materials we will be using, and the content standards it is intended to cover. I can just put in the names of activities, the numbers for content standards, and my notes as an outline in for me. Those are not helpful to someone who doesn't already have that informaiton. It would take hours to convert a week's worth of lessons to include enough information for a parent to be able to tech thier child from them. I personally think that is asking a little too much from a teacher. I complie work as we do it, and provide that, along with a printout of the powepoint slides form the lectures when a student returns. If they have questions AFTER they have attempted the work. I will set up an after school help session.

 

[turtlechick6]

I have heard stories where parents were given a hard time about taking their kids out of school for vacations and they asked how much money the school would be losing from it and then offered to reimburse the schools that lost money. I am not surprised to say that the schools all of a sudden no longer had a problem with the missing school days once the parents wrote a check for the lost money. To me that is what bothers me. They claim it is about education and falling behind when really it is not.

I have never been a conformist when it comes to arbitrary rules. My parents raised me that way. They raised me that it is okay to question authority if they need questioning. Ask why a rule is in place. Argue against that rule if need be. Even sometimes rebel if the rule is unjust. I was a model child who never got into trouble at school or at home. I was allowed to question my parent's rules and if I had a good enough argument they even would relent on the rules if I showed them they were not fair.

So that is one reason why I have no problem questioning authority and arbitrary rules. I feel attendance policies are unjust if they punish a model student with good grades for taking family vacations that are educational or build family bonding or are once in a lifetime oppurtunities. That is stifling and hurting a child, not bettering them! I agree students belong in school most days. Problem students really belong in school. But there is never ANY harm in good students taking time out of school for the above reasons I gave. I should know since my parents did it and I was always a model student, and went on to be a model college student and a model citizen.

 

[turtlechick6]

Princessmom: that may be true for some parents. My husband and I are college educated and both have all subjects covered between us. My husband is a science, math and IT nerd. I am a reading, foreign languages and history nerd. So between the two of us, I am sure we can easily understand and teach any sort of subject matter to our kids for the few days they would be out of school.

I would not want the teacher to put themselves out a great deal for this. Just give us a general overview of what the students will be working on and maybe a couple practice problems and such and we will work with them so when they come back they can complete the make up work and catch up again quickly. I would even be willing to bring my child in for tutoring before or after school.

 

[lsusoftball37]

here are kids only can missed 5 days a semester so that a total of 10 days a year. if they are sick and it just a note from home it unexuse and if dr note it exuse. the teacher will let them do they missed work or test. My son is in jr high and he doesn't like missing days. cause here if you missed no days you don't have to take your finally exam. He had to missed 2 this year for pink eye we have a dr excuse for. So he will missed a day an half when we go to wdw. he not to happy but since he missed some days he oke with it.When he was in elem. school wasn't a problem. i just told his teacher and she was fine with it. althought she suggest us not to cause she has seen some kids grades went down cause of the missed day. but my son had to problem with his grade.

 

[pacrosby]

Maybe you should try to clarify your point of view instead of stooping to sending people nasty, hate filled PMs. If you don't have the guts to post something publicly, maybe you shouldn't say it at all.

I had no problem with you personally, until you sent me your nasty message. I thought we were all discussing this subject as rational adults. No one has been mean or nasty. If you have a problem with my posts, put that here. But please don't send me mean PMs

As I told you in my reply PM I have no idea what earned me such hatred.

This is actually quite amusing and proves every point I made in that pm. I did not take it 'public' because it was 'private'. It was not nasty, it was pointed. And 'hatred'....that's an awfully strong word. The fact that you would follow up that pm with this kind of public comment, for no reason other than to attempt to humiliate me and make me run into hiding, hey, that says it all.

In the future I would suggest you not make snarky comments towards others and accuse them of being insulting and having nothing meaningful to say without expecting some sort of backlash. At least I had the maturity not to turn it into a public display. Sheesh.

 

[zus888]

I'm not asking this to be rude or to be condescending, but how hard can it really be for a parent to teach a child what they are missing in school? I mean, we've all been there. I've been to college. I feel like you're making it sound more challenging than it is or has to be. But, like I said, I haven't been in the public school system in over 20 years, so I'm sure things must have changed quite a bit. I have a difficult time grasping that the lesson plans are so complicated that it would make it impossible for me to teach the material or my child to learn the material by reading a book.

Is there an actual example? The only thing I could see being difficult for me is literature or labs. Literature because I genuinely suck at it and labs because they cannot be easily replicated.

 

[heatherwillmom]

I am on your side. I think a phone call is more than adequate and if your students are on honor roll and well behaved then I see no problem. Its amazing that some brats are suspended or skip, or fake being sick G and thats no problem, but heaven forbid that you want to take your children on a trip. I think that sometimes these school are a bit crazy. There are MY children, I think I should be able to decide if and when they miss school.

Yes, I know I will be flamed. Thats cool, I have never had a problem being yelled at. It would be a different story if this was something that happened monthly, but once a year sounds reasonable.

Good luck!

I totally agree with you & with another pp who said they are my kids. I don't take my kids out of school for vacation for more than a day or two now, but mine are in high school. I have taken them out of school before for longer time. Sometimes parents can't get off work when it's best for the school

 

[zus888]

I completely agree with turtlechick6. I was raised the same way. Definitely NOT a conformist.

 

[MiniGirl]

I have heard stories where parents were given a hard time about taking their kids out of school for vacations and they asked how much money the school would be losing from it and then offered to reimburse the schools that lost money. I am not surprised to say that the schools all of a sudden no longer had a problem with the missing school days once the parents wrote a check for the lost money. To me that is what bothers me. They claim it is about education and falling behind when really it is not.

I have never been a conformist when it comes to arbitrary rules. My parents raised me that way. They raised me that it is okay to question authority if they need questioning. Ask why a rule is in place. Argue against that rule if need be. Even sometimes rebel if the rule is unjust. I was a model child who never got into trouble at school or at home. I was allowed to question my parent's rules and if I had a good enough argument they even would relent on the rules if I showed them they were not fair.

So that is one reason why I have no problem questioning authority and arbitrary rules. I feel attendance policies are unjust if they punish a model student with good grades for taking family vacations that are educational or build family bonding or are once in a lifetime oppurtunities. That is stifling and hurting a child, not bettering them! I agree students belong in school most days. Problem students really belong in school. But there is never ANY harm in good students taking time out of school for the above reasons I gave. I should know since my parents did it and I was always a model student, and went on to be a model college student and a model citizen.

First of all, understand that I agree that attendance was never that important an issue for a student who is doing well until funding was tied to attendance. All of a sudden the schools are telling us about how much they care about our children and their education and that is the reason for the tougher attendance policies. Granted..... I know I have a bit of cynicism on my chin, but I don't buy it.

As I posted earlier, I have great admiration and respect for those who arefighting to change rules they feel are unjust. When you become a parent though, so many things change. For example, bucking the system, in this instance, means knowingly taking actions that will get your child in trouble and possible cause him to graduate a year later than his peers. If you (a general you) aren't in a position to homeschool or send him to a private school, you need to be willing to let him suffer the consequences for your act of civil disobedience. I don't think many of us are willing to put our child in that position. The school policy makers know this, and they use it to their benefit.

 

[ccgirl]

lesson plans done a month in advance are worthless. What I plan to do the next day changes daily as I see how my students react to what is taught. We are only required to plan a week in advance, and even those plans change on a day to day basis. Alny good teacher should be doing the same. Teaching the same cookie cutter lesoons over and over without modification based on what the students are bringing to the table is poor teaching. I could give a general overview of what topics we will be covering, but I could never send work in advance for a 2 week trip. It just doesn't work that way IRL. A lesson plan for me to teach form, and a lesson plan a parent could use and make sense of are 2 very different things. A lesson plan is not a script to read from but rather a very general outline of where the lesson is going, what content we are covering, what materials we will be using, and the content standards it is intended to cover. I can just put in the names of activities, the numbers for content standards, and my notes as an outline in for me. Those are not helpful to someone who doesn't already have that informaiton. It would take hours to convert a week's worth of lessons to include enough information for a parent to be able to tech thier child from them. I personally think that is asking a little too much from a teacher. I complie work as we do it, and provide that, along with a printout of the powepoint slides form the lectures when a student returns. If they have questions AFTER they have attempted the work. I will set up an after school help session.

I completely agree with you. Sounds like you are a great teacher. That is also the policy in my DD's school. All work is collected in her bin and given to her upon return. She then has to make up the work in the same amount of time that is missed. I don't ask the teacher to stay after school to help her. That is my job. Whey should a teacher have to put in extra time because I took my child out of school during the 180 days they are expected to be there rather than the 185 days they are not? Which brings me to my next point. Why is a student being stifled or hurt when they can vacation 185 other days without missing a day of school? Vacations can be just as educational, family bonding building, and once in a lifetime opportunities during school vacations or summers.

Just what is a model student and what are considered good grades? Posters are saying the "model student" or those with "good grades" shouldn't be penalized when they miss school. That is very hard to determine. As such, a student can only miss a certain number of days regardeless of the grades, etc. Posters are also saying, my child...my child....What if multiple children missed the same week? That would mean a lot of unnecessary extra work on the teacher it seems.

Just stick to the guidelines and there are no worries. Since guidelines are given at the beginning of the school year(often written during the previous year) there is no excuse for saying you didn't know them. Would you plan a trip before finding out that you could actually get the vacation time from work? The "you" isn't meant to anyone in particular BTW.