M&G etiquette

[HopperFan]

It isn't just you! I'll never really understand the unrelenting attitude that some have on this issue when the math proves that they aren't being impacted by what you propose. Their wait time doesn't change if your 4 year old and a second adult join the 14 year old and the first adult at the last minute. Getting a photo taken with a character isn't supposed to be an endurance test or a self-sacrificing test of deprivation.

Math may be in this families' favor but in most cases math likely plays out that the guests who actually waited in the line are being impacted.

In my first example of Mom waiting while 3 girls were out having a good time... When they returned they all had autograph books and when seeing them in another line they each got an autograph, took an individual photo, plus group photo, plus photo with parents. When the characters are out for set amounts of time, then take breaks .... it absolutely impacts not only waits but the poor kid who gets stopped to wait even longer and in some cases (Aladdin/Jasmine) long waits. So the family that all got in line and waited draws the short stick. While the family that was out having fun, then got their character meet ... is now out having fun again ... while poor family that got in line is still waiting. Not cool.

Sadly I think the larger groups are much more common than the child needs a potty run or needs to wait outside the line.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

In my first example of Mom waiting while 3 girls were out having a good time... When they returned they all had autograph books and when seeing them in another line they each got an autograph, took an individual photo, plus group photo, plus photo with parents.

X = X. It always has and always will. No matter what scenario you want to offer up for the family's behavior once they get to the front of the line and interact with the character--(picture with just the kids. Now the kids and grandma. Now the kids and the parents. Now just grandma. And on and on); that behavior is a "constant" and is not impacted by whether the kids and grandma waited in line or not. If a family is going to spend 8 minutes with a character after having some of them wait in line, that same family is going to take 8 minutes with a character after having all of them wait in line. 8 minutes = 8 minutes. The act of waiting in line, (or not), does not alter the family's behavior once they get to the character to take photos.

 

[mickey1968]

Completely understand this line of thinking, and I get annoyed as well when the situation unfolds as you mention above. However, I usually just try to chill out and realize that I'm at Disney World and that I should expect some minor instances of folks being inconsiderate.

It doesn't get me near as annoyed as when people just STOP WALKING in a walkway rather than moving to the side to figure out where they are, have a discussion, make a decision, etc.

DON'T EVEN GET ME STARTED ON THIS ONE!!!!

Agreed!

If you or your child wants to see a character then you wait. Waiting is part of life. My kids will often ask to see specific characters and if the line is longer than 20 minutes I say no. I know that they will not be patient in line. That restroom breaks will be needed. I'm not getting in and out of line and receiving dirty looks because of it. It's the same with waiting in a line for a ride. You make a commitment and either stay in that line or jump ship. No one stays behind as the place holder. It's not fair to others in line behind you.

FYI- I despise the Brazilian teenagers who line jump with friends at WDW as well as the Asian tourists who do the same at DLR. Waiting in a line that's listed as being 40 minutes that expands to over 60 minutes due to a tour group line jumping is just not cool.
[Putting in flame retardant suit ]

Don't forget the AMERICAN cheerleaders!

 

[jjjones325]

X = X. It always has and always will. No matter what scenario you want to offer up for the family's behavior once they get to the front of the line and interact with the character--(picture with just the kids. Now the kids and grandma. Now the kids and the parents. Now just grandma. And on and on); that behavior is a "constant" and is not impacted by whether the kids and grandma waited in line or not. If a family is going to spend 8 minutes with a character after having some of them not wait in line, that same family is going to take 8 minutes with a character after all of them having waited in line. 8 = 8. The act of waiting in line, (or not), does not alter the family's behavior once they get to the character to take photos.

Agree that the ultimate outcome isn't affected, but you aren't expecting that kind of wait when it's just one family member in front of you. It's like walking into fast food restaurant. You see one person in line and think Sweet, I'll be in and out. But then you see that person whip out a notepad with orders for the whole office. Your wait would have been the same if the whole office showed up, but your perception of how long you thought you'd have to wait gets all skewed and causes consternation.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

Agree that the ultimate outcome isn't affected, but you aren't expecting that kind of wait when it's just one family member in front of you. It's like walking into fast food restaurant. You see one person in line and think Sweet, I'll be in and out. But then you see that person whip out a notepad with orders for the whole office. Your wait would have been the same if the whole office showed up, but your perception of how long you thought you'd have to wait gets all skewed and causes consternation.

But is your perception important? If your net time stays the same, there is nothing you could have done to change the outcome. Unlike the fast food example, there is not a choice of lines for a M&G. There is only one single line. So while in your example you might have changed your outcome by choosing a line with more people in it, at the M&G you don't have that option. The moment you get in it, your fate is sealed. You just don't know what that fate is. Also, at the M&G line, you can alter your perception by simply looking at each individual as a placeholder for a group of 4 or 5 people. Once you alter your perception, you correct for the better estimated wait time. You can look at a line and pretty much judge who is with whom based on how they are standing and conversing. Lots of people standing in single file without speaking to one another tells me that each person is an individual who is likely associated with a group.

 

[jjjones325]

But is your perception important? If your net time stays the same, there is nothing you could have done to change the outcome. Unlike the fast food example, there is not a choice of lines for a M&G. There is only one single line. So while in your example you might have changed your outcome by choosing a line with more people in it, at the M&G you don't have that option. The moment you get in it, your fate is sealed. You just don't know what that fate is. Also, at the M&G line, you can alter your perception by simply looking at each individual as a placeholder for a group of 4 or 5 people. Once you alter your perception, you correct for the better estimated wait time. You can look at a line and pretty much judge who is with whom based on how they are standing and conversing. Lots of people standing in single file without speaking to one another tells me that each person is an individual who is likely associated with a group.

In how an individual reacts to a situation, perception is hugely important. You build up that anticipation: I've got only 10 people ahead of me, down to 5, then where the heck did these 5 other people come from. Agree your fate is sealed once you step in line, but I'd venture to say the absolute overwhelming majority of the population doesn't view it that way. So, when they see those extra 5 people, they lose reason and think their time is being stolen by the line cutters. Then you unfortunately don't know how they would react. So, that's why I would never hold a spot, or take a spot that's held. I even get slightly uncomfortable when DW has me get in line and she goes to park the stroller. She doesn't notice that I linger more than I should before joining the line to minimize the people she'll have to pass.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

So, when they see those extra 5 people, they lose reason and think their time is being stolen by the line cutters.

I don't discount this possibility, but I won't bow to other people's irrationality!

 

[Shellyb84]

But is your perception important? If your net time stays the same, there is nothing you could have done to change the outcome. Unlike the fast food example, there is not a choice of lines for a M&G. There is only one single line. So while in your example you might have changed your outcome by choosing a line with more people in it, at the M&G you don't have that option. The moment you get in it, your fate is sealed. You just don't know what that fate is. Also, at the M&G line, you can alter your perception by simply looking at each individual as a placeholder for a group of 4 or 5 people. Once you alter your perception, you correct for the better estimated wait time. You can look at a line and pretty much judge who is with whom based on how they are standing and conversing. Lots of people standing in single file without speaking to one another tells me that each person is an individual who is likely associated with a group.

I agree that the net time doesn't change either way. However, some people base their decision to even get in line on their perceived wait time. We don't typically stand in super long lines and instead choose to skip some things, but if we see one that looks pretty short, we'll hop in. So it would be super annoying if a bunch of extra people join the line ahead of us. To me, that is causing us extra time because we may have chosen to not even get in the line in the first place had we known we would be behind that many people, and moved on to something else. Yes, it is totally our decision to skip long lines, but perception is extremely important in decision making.

 

[tchris4]

My son would love to meet Moana at MNSSHP. He's 3. We are not going to wait for Moana...because he's 3. There's no way he can wait for an hour in line. His sister is 1 - she definitely cannot an hour in a line. I thought about having grandparents take 1 year old to do something else, but then the 3 year old would want to go with them and I would be panicking about them not being back in time and/or feeling like I'm cheating because he did not wait too.

 

[HopperFan]

X = X. It always has and always will. No matter what scenario you want to offer up for the family's behavior once they get to the front of the line and interact with the character--(picture with just the kids. Now the kids and grandma. Now the kids and the parents. Now just grandma. And on and on); that behavior is a "constant" and is not impacted by whether the kids and grandma waited in line or not. If a family is going to spend 8 minutes with a character after having some of them wait in line, that same family is going to take 8 minutes with a character after having all of them wait in line. 8 minutes = 8 minutes. The act of waiting in line, (or not), does not alter the family's behavior once they get to the character to take photos.

So if you are waiting to see Rivers of Light, and a Mom or ten Mom's are waiting in line, saving a spot for their family. And your whole family has been standing there for two hours waiting to see the show with every expectation to sit. Then suddenly all these families show up, cut the line and you are told sorry, show full ............ not a problem? Your trip hasn't been impacted?

Everyone's extra wait, more extra waits due to end of greet window, different character due to change during extra wait ......... all caused because a group cut into the line who had a placeholder. The point is, it is only fair for everyone who wants the experience to get in line for the experience and this has been supported by more than one CM/Managers. You can create all the fuzzy math you want but it is what it is, not what it might have been. You can call people irrational but I just say they are guests who did the right and fair thing, and don't appreciate their experience held up or changed by those who cut the line.

It works the same at attractions, dining lines (when late guests order individually) etc. Cutting a line is cutting a line, no matter how many roses you put on it.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

I don't discount this possibility, but I won't bow to other people's irrationality!

Here is the problem with how you are explaining it.

I won't get in a line that is 50 people, just to meet a character.

But if there are only 10 in line, I would get in line.

If each of those people are just place holders for 4 other people, that means that I was tricked into getting in line.

My wait time has increased beyond what I see as reasonable.

 

[AngiTN]

I agree that the net time doesn't change either way. However, some people base their decision to even get in line on their perceived wait time. We don't typically stand in super long lines and instead choose to skip some things, but if we see one that looks pretty short, we'll hop in. So it would be super annoying if a bunch of extra people join the line ahead of us. To me, that is causing us extra time because we may have chosen to not even get in the line in the first place had we known we would be behind that many people, and moved on to something else. Yes, it is totally our decision to skip long lines, but perception is extremely important in decision making.

Here is the problem with how you are explaining it.

I won't get in a line that is 50 people, just to meet a character.

But if there are only 10 in line, I would get in line.

If each of those people are just place holders for 4 other people, that means that I was tricked into getting in line.

My wait time has increased beyond what I see as reasonable.

Here's where this special character situation at parties is slightly different for most guests.
They are going to get in line to meet them period.
Not only if the line is X minutes long. Sure some will but not most. Most have a goal to meet these special only at a party characters so they are getting in line no matter what.
This particular discussion is related to these specific characters with uniquely long lines and these uniquely long lines, which are outdoors sort of have unique sets of rules. They really don't carry over to anything else.

ETA - And even in these unique lines, I don't think the place holder guests are a HUGE issue. It's not like every other guest in line is holding a place for a group of 5 others. I'd say very few are over all. Most are standing in line together. The ones who aren't are a minority. So their numbers aren't extending your wait by a huge number.

 

[BadRomance]

Here is the problem with how you are explaining it.

I won't get in a line that is 50 people, just to meet a character.

But if there are only 10 in line, I would get in line.

If each of those people are just place holders for 4 other people, that means that I was tricked into getting in line.

My wait time has increased beyond what I see as reasonable.

There's just no way of knowing if the character will need to go on a break or if the group in front of you who have all been waiting there same as you want to take 5 million individual shots and have a really long interaction. You don't know. That's the risk you take. Its just like picking the wrong line at the grocery store and having to wait extra so someone can get their coupons or food stamps scanned or get something price checked. Sometimes delays just happen. I'm not going to scold or side eye someone for something that would have happened regardless of my perception.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

Here is the problem with how you are explaining it.

I won't get in a line that is 50 people, just to meet a character.

But if there are only 10 in line, I would get in line.

If each of those people are just place holders for 4 other people, that means that I was tricked into getting in line.

My wait time has increased beyond what I see as reasonable.

Not if placeholding is the norm. Right now, you get in the Standby line at Space Mountain based on its perceived length. You have no idea how many FP holders are going to jump into the line while you wait. But you don't care because returning FP holders are the norm. If placeholding is the norm, you would be surprised how quickly you would adjust your expectations when you see 10 people in a line instead of 40.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

So if you are waiting to see Rivers of Light, and a Mom or ten Mom's are waiting in line, saving a spot for their family. And your whole family has been standing there for two hours waiting to see the show with every expectation to sit. Then suddenly all these families show up, cut the line and you are told sorry, show full ............ not a problem? Your trip hasn't been impacted?

This discussion is about M&G lines, outdoors, at hard ticket events. How does a RoL example apply? Your example has my situation being impacted by getting "shut out" of the show. That is not at all the same. We are talking about a mathematical scenario where your wait time does not change at all.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

This particular discussion is related to these specific characters with uniquely long lines and these uniquely long lines, which are outdoors sort of have unique sets of rules. They really don't carry over to anything else.

Winner!!!

 

[monorailrabbit]

In how an individual reacts to a situation, perception is hugely important. You build up that anticipation: I've got only 10 people ahead of me, down to 5, then where the heck did these 5 other people come from. Agree your fate is sealed once you step in line, but I'd venture to say the absolute overwhelming majority of the population doesn't view it that way. So, when they see those extra 5 people, they lose reason and think their time is being stolen by the line cutters. Then you unfortunately don't know how they would react. So, that's why I would never hold a spot, or take a spot that's held. I even get slightly uncomfortable when DW has me get in line and she goes to park the stroller. She doesn't notice that I linger more than I should before joining the line to minimize the people she'll have to pass.

I agree that the net time doesn't change either way. However, some people base their decision to even get in line on their perceived wait time. We don't typically stand in super long lines and instead choose to skip some things, but if we see one that looks pretty short, we'll hop in. So it would be super annoying if a bunch of extra people join the line ahead of us. To me, that is causing us extra time because we may have chosen to not even get in the line in the first place had we known we would be behind that many people, and moved on to something else. Yes, it is totally our decision to skip long lines, but perception is extremely important in decision making.

This. If I see 10 people in line, yup, I'll wait. If 10 people all have family/friends join and now become 80 people I am not happy. Had I known 80 people were actually in line, I would not have entered said line. I totally get M&G at parties are a bit different - most are "open" and some of those are hour (or longer) lines. Having said that, short of an emergency, I'm still really not okay with people coming and going. We sometimes bring food with us to munch in a line will know will be stagnant for a bit (lining up at 5 when a character won't even come out until 7) but we won't eat in a line that's actively moving and no one leaves to get the food and bring it back.

Edited: removed the part about indoor lines as this thread is focusing on outdoors - my apologies

 

[HopperFan]

This discussion is about M&G lines, outdoors, at hard ticket events. How does a RoL example apply? Your example has my situation being impacted by getting "shut out" of the show. That is not at all the same. We are talking about a mathematical scenario where your wait time does not change at all.

ROL example was to simplify it. Actually is the same if you are in a line late at night or end of time (Pooh characters are well known for disappearing early) and miss out on the meet due to folks joining the line late using up time.

Party? First hand experience. Arrived and got into J&S line knowing when it opened and calculated about how long it would take after that based on folks in line. In the end it was quite accurate and we missed very little of the party. Fortunately that year there were CMs located on both sides, entrance and meet area who completely blocked anyone from attempting to join their family/friends in line. They were not allowing any line cutting. Some were upset as they were "placeholders" but CMs said not allowed. Knowing my wait is very important at a party I have paid to be at because I don't want to miss too much. Other years we have opted to not join the line because I calculated that it was too long.

21 parties, never met 7 Dwarfs even though DS loves them. Why? Because until last year there was no queue, no organization and what should have been maybe an hour wait would likely double because of all the line cutters. All I had to do was ask folks in line and who just left how long ... I would get a time and usually a complaint about all the people walking up and cutting in line. Disney did not have CMs or structure to prevent it.

Based on my experience with specialty characters at parties there are rules - no joining the line (per CMs) - but if Disney hasn't set up the structure and placed enough CMs to enforce it there isn't much guests can do about it. I think at this point we know some folks don't mind cutting the lines and that is why some folks who feel we should wait are bothered by it.

BUT ......... unfortunately I broke one of my own forum rules by responding - so I'll be done.

 

[CinderDuffy]

Don't forget the AMERICAN cheerleaders!

I think we can guess what really bothers that poster, and the reason (white) American cheerleaders didn't get a mention...

 

[cgattis]

X = X. It always has and always will. No matter what scenario you want to offer up for the family's behavior once they get to the front of the line and interact with the character--(picture with just the kids. Now the kids and grandma. Now the kids and the parents. Now just grandma. And on and on); that behavior is a "constant" and is not impacted by whether the kids and grandma waited in line or not. If a family is going to spend 8 minutes with a character after having some of them wait in line, that same family is going to take 8 minutes with a character after having all of them wait in line. 8 minutes = 8 minutes. The act of waiting in line, (or not), does not alter the family's behavior once they get to the character to take photos.

Ah, I do understand your point now. Although I do think it could skew posted wait times if they count heads and not parties. I'm sure someone here knows how they do that; I sure don't.