Relationship Struggle

[Pamlur]

One of my best friend's daughter and my friend's husband's son fell in love. The parents said "go ahead with this, but if/when you two break up, you had best not mess up our relationship (or try to). Then my friend left that husband for another man; the absolute to the threatened breakup happened. She must have been a heck of a woman, because that husband left her on his insurance since she had heart trouble and cancer. She has since passed away, daughter and husband are still married and very much in love. Your nephew and your BF's daughter should have been left alone to find their way and break up or not in their own time. You two blew it big time there.

Another best friend was dating a guy who was separated from his wife; she was the second person by her name that he had dated during this separation. My friend sent him back to his wife to try to work things out (she was a widow with four young children, his four children were a little older). When he actually divorced his wife, my friend married him. His children were told the entire time that my friend broke their marriage up; even his young grandchildren told her that she was a home wrecker. They were polite to her, but when he passed away she never heard from them again. We will never know which person of the same name was supposedly responsible, but my friend bore all the blame.

I honestly don't know what to tell you. There is so much screwed up in this story; I can't get over the fact that you two have lived apart all these years so I guess I can't approach the situation with advice. I'm sorry you are having this issue though.

 

[Wishing on a star]

OP....
I have one simple question.... What do YOU want/need.
That is what matters.
What do YOU want/need, from this, or any, relationship.

I agree with others that you are not a family, you do not have a husband or even a committed relationship.
I am not sure that you ever did.
I am not sure that the glasses really are off.

Everybody here can debate details, about whether he is honorable or respectful... or how badly you may have messed up or made a mistake by involving yourself in the DD's relationship. Yada, Yada, Yada....

And, on that note: If you and your DBF are committed and are like family, then while nobody should not involve themselves in another's personal relationship the way it seems you did... The bottom line is that, your thoughts and concerns SHOULD have been listened to and considered as valid, by your DBF.

But, it seems that the two of you are unable to discuss any thoughts, concerns, expectations... Even something as simple as Thanksgiving Dinner.

I fully believe that the issues here go WAY WAY WAY deeper, with both you and with your DBF than most people here could begin to imagine. Dysfunction usually has very deep roots.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I purposely did not ask my DBF about this Thanksgiving. A test, if you will, to see how he would it handle it-he failed miserably imo.

This is what I was talking about in my prior post. Setting up a test for your partner to pass or fail? Totally manipulative and immature relationship behaviour. Any chance you want the relationship to end yourself and are looking for reasons to end it and have that be his fault?

About Thanksgiving (since it seems to be such a sticking point):

I totally understand that you wanted a firm comitment from your boyfriend, well in advance, that he'd be spending the holiday with you. I get that it is hurtful to not be able to rely on that and feels like he does not place your feelings high on his priority list when he doesn't, of his own accord, think let you know he plans to be with you, or even tell his daughter he plans to spend his day with you regardless of if she would have had time to do something with him or not.

On the other hand, I can see what might be his side. You always cook and always have a large group, so whether he were going to be there or not did not change how you prepared for the day (it's not like, if he did not come you'd be all alone and would want prior notice to make other arrangements). So, I can imagine he saw no pressing need to give you a heads up well in advance.
And, depending on how often he has the chance to see the university aged daughter, versus you, and how predictable her schedule is (mine is not always aprised of work schedules until a few days before, etc) it might be reasonable for him to defer more to her schedule when she is available (does he see you 3-4 times a week and her only once a month, for example?).

Honestly, I don't see a major issue about where who spends what holiday---the issue is in both of you failing to communicate openly and honestly with one another about it (and possible in you and/or the DD insisting on making this about him choosing between you). I hope you'll see a therapist and that the theraspist can help you two figure out what you really want and communicate it in healthy ways, so you can find out if this relationship is good for both of you going forward or not.

 

[ThistleMae]

No you have it right, he has told me he talks to her about it & I do believe that to be true. You have the other details correct as well. I can't/won't/wouldn't want to "tell" him what to say to his DD. He needs to find the words that make sense for him. I will tell you exactly what I would say if this was reversed & it was my child. I would say I need speak to you DD & let you know that going forward, I am no longer willing to be the in the middle. DBF is my choice in life & you should expect to see him around often. If you choose to not attend a family function or participate in something going on, it will sadden/disappoint me, but it will not prevent me from asking him to be there. I also will no longer put plans on hold with DBF if you are unable to commit to something in a fair amount of time. You are now a young adult, you are smart, caring & respectful in other areas of your life. I am asking you to extend me that same respect. If there is something to discuss, let's put it on the table & work on it.
Something like that.

Wow....you worded this so nicely, a caring and loving message with clear boundaries. So you said he talks to her, and you don't know exactly what he said, but the result is that he isn't putting you first, correct? So, he didn't set a boundary with her because he made it known to you that you were not invited to the family gathering, if she was there. Have you asked him what he did say to her, just to clarify?

 

[DisneyFan32WI]

I would never want to be on the outside looking in.

 

[Skywalker]

No you have it right, he has told me he talks to her about it & I do believe that to be true. You have the other details correct as well. I can't/won't/wouldn't want to "tell" him what to say to his DD. He needs to find the words that make sense for him. I will tell you exactly what I would say if this was reversed & it was my child. I would say I need speak to you DD & let you know that going forward, I am no longer willing to be the in the middle. DBF is my choice in life & you should expect to see him around often. If you choose to not attend a family function or participate in something going on, it will sadden/disappoint me, but it will not prevent me from asking him to be there. I also will no longer put plans on hold with DBF if you are unable to commit to something in a fair amount of time. You are now a young adult, you are smart, caring & respectful in other areas of your life. I am asking you to extend me that same respect. If there is something to discuss, let's put it on the table & work on it.
Something like that.

Had to do a double take at the bolded parts - While normally I would agree with what you are saying here, it might just make her roll her eyes in even more frustration, knowing that you tried to torpedo HER relationship lol. Be careful not to breed more resentment.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I just can't get past the "panic attack". That is a HUGE tell to me that he is not being truthful to you. Sounds like he is confiding in this dd on WHAT TO DO ABOUT YOU, which is not good for you.

His behavior shows that he is questioning your relationship.

Just how I see it on paper so to speak.

I have to commend you for trying to sort this out here without freaking out. Not an easy thing to do on the internet.

I do wish you well going forward. Relationships that are unconventional can look like you are "not committed" to others. There is a bit of that going on here as well I think.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I agree with most of that MM!!!!
However, I don't think it is 'perception' that the DBF here is not committed.
When his actions, words, behaviors, show very clearly that he is more committed to every thing else in his life, above his so-called committed life-partner.
It seems to me that this isn't just a 'perception' thing.
It is a reality thing.

Having said that, I have no doubt that the OP, herself, feels that she has been 100% committed.

 

[VandVsmama]

The whole Thanksgiving thing is really weird.

For a man who is "committed" to being in a relationship with you, he certainly doesn't ACT like he's very committed. The 2 of you have some communication problems at the moment. Neither of you seem to be willing to talk about the big elephant in the room in your relationship. There is a Grand Canyon of gaps between what he SAYS to you and what he DOES.

And if you want him to treat you with the love, care, and respect of a significant other who deeply cares about you and treats you as a member of his family, then you need to be willing to speak up for your needs & expectations. And that includes communicating to him whether or not you want him there on Thanksgiving. And he owed you an answer.

He owed the rest of his family an answer, too. But he didn't give them an answer either. On the one hand, he's probably trying to keep everybody happy. And for a long time, you've been satisfied with being totally excluded from any get togethers that involve his family. But you know what? If he's excluding you from that, HE DOES NOT CONSIDER YOU PART OF HIS FAMILY! It doesn't matter what he SAYS to you...it's his ACTIONS that speak volumes.

The writing is on the wall. You may feel like your life will be over if you are no longer with this man. But I'd like to propose that you really do deserve to have a life partner who walks the talk. Right now, your boyfriend isn't walking the talk. He's all talk. He has made his decision very clear. You're just having a really hard time seeing it.

The relationship is pretty messed up if you can't even talk to each other about whether or not 1 of you is going to show up for a holiday meal. He does not consider you his family. He's not going to change. He doesn't have the nerve to break up with you. He's hoping that you will see the writing on the wall and leave the relationship so he doesn't have to officially break up with you. Why? Because he doesn't respect you.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Yes, I agree with the above....
Yes, it is very hard to see these difficult things.
And, OP, I know that you are hurting right now!!!!!

We all hate to see you hurting!
But, for the hurt to stop, and the rest of your life to begin, the glasses do have to come all the way off.

 

[Positive]

I just can't get past the "panic attack". That is a HUGE tell to me that he is not being truthful to you. Sounds like he is confiding in this dd on WHAT TO DO ABOUT YOU, which is not good for you.

His behavior shows that he is questioning your relationship.

Just how I see it on paper so to speak.

I have to commend you for trying to sort this out here without freaking out. Not an easy thing to do on the internet.

I do wish you well going forward. Relationships that are unconventional can look like you are "not committed" to others. There is a bit of that going on here as well I think.

Thank you for your post. That night you mentioned (panic attack) was a tipping point for me & made me uncomfortable/hurt my feelings.

 

[Positive]

The whole Thanksgiving thing is really weird.

For a man who is "committed" to being in a relationship with you, he certainly doesn't ACT like he's very committed. The 2 of you have some communication problems at the moment. Neither of you seem to be willing to talk about the big elephant in the room in your relationship. There is a Grand Canyon of gaps between what he SAYS to you and what he DOES.

And if you want him to treat you with the love, care, and respect of a significant other who deeply cares about you and treats you as a member of his family, then you need to be willing to speak up for your needs & expectations. And that includes communicating to him whether or not you want him there on Thanksgiving. And he owed you an answer.

He owed the rest of his family an answer, too. But he didn't give them an answer either. On the one hand, he's probably trying to keep everybody happy. And for a long time, you've been satisfied with being totally excluded from any get togethers that involve his family. But you know what? If he's excluding you from that, HE DOES NOT CONSIDER YOU PART OF HIS FAMILY! It doesn't matter what he SAYS to you...it's his ACTIONS that speak volumes.

The writing is on the wall. You may feel like your life will be over if you are no longer with this man. But I'd like to propose that you really do deserve to have a life partner who walks the talk. Right now, your boyfriend isn't walking the talk. He's all talk. He has made his decision very clear. You're just having a really hard time seeing it.

The relationship is pretty messed up if you can't even talk to each other about whether or not 1 of you is going to show up for a holiday meal. He does not consider you his family. He's not going to change. He doesn't have the nerve to break up with you. He's hoping that you will see the writing on the wall and leave the relationship so he doesn't have to officially break up with you. Why? Because he doesn't respect you.

I didn't respond to your message right away because I am now at Disney for the week & was getting settled. The way you summarized the state of my relationship is spot-on. The only thing I would stress is that I HAVE talked to him in detail exactly about how I feel, but have seen very little change despite promises for him to be be more aware. I don't feel like my life would be over if we were no longer together, but I would be crushed. I have had to wonder myself if the fact that he is not doing his part to take care of "us" is a conscious or unconscious decision to simply let our relationship go.

 

[Positive]

Wow....you worded this so nicely, a caring and loving message with clear boundaries. So you said he talks to her, and you don't know exactly what he said, but the result is that he isn't putting you first, correct? So, he didn't set a boundary with her because he made it known to you that you were not invited to the family gathering, if she was there. Have you asked him what he did say to her, just to clarify?

Thanks....Yes, he has told me he talks to his DD & what he tells me is that "she knows how I feel about you & that you are my choice in life. He would NEVER say to me "you can't come to my sisters house, I'm going with DD" ...what he does is let me know he is going to his sister's house with DD & no offer to me to come along with or without my own DD's joining.

 

[Alicefan]

You have badmouthed his DD to him? Wow, this does not sound like a relationship that has developed in a healthy way. Honestly, no one is going to feel like you care about their children if you call them names.

With all due respect, this is a very idealistic way to look at things. I'm sorry but people are human and getting frustrated with a kids behavior and telling it like it is and calling her a brat is pretty darn mild IMO. A far cry from an "unhealthy relationship". You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to hold in everything negative that they are feeling for the rest of their lives lol. I've had 2 stepsons and I completely get where the OP is coming from. Fighting against the birth parent badmouthing you is a fight you'll NEVER win. I say after 18 years and no marriage I'd start to feel a bit used. I know because I myself was used by a man to help raise his children and it will never be any better than it is now. The longer you go the more complacent he will get. I would cut and run. Life is too short to be a door mat. You'll always be second fiddle to a man's children. Their feelings trump all and always will.

 

[Alicefan]

His daughter will always come before you. Especially since his daughter hates your guts.

And after 18 years with this guy, if he hasn't married you by now, he never will. You've wasted most of your adult life with this guy. Don't waste any more time with him. Go and date somebody who is actually ready to make a real commitment to you. You deserve that.

YES YES YES!!! I agree wholeheartedly!

 

[sk!mom]

Hmmm...something doesn't sound right here to me. An 18 year relationship and a college aged DD would mean that you have been in her dad's life as long as she would remember. Have you ever gotten along? It just doesn't seem like just a badmouthing ex could create this big a problem.

Given all that. I was trying to be with you until the bolded. If your boyfriend doesn't share with you and makes comments like, "you don't care anyway" then it seems that the greater problem is your relationship with him.

What has happened to make him think that you don't care about his DD?

You have badmouthed his DD to him? Wow, this does not sound like a relationship that has developed in a healthy way. Honestly, no one is going to feel like you care about their children if you call them names.

With all due respect, this is a very idealistic way to look at things. I'm sorry but people are human and getting frustrated with a kids behavior and telling it like it is and calling her a brat is pretty darn mild IMO. A far cry from an "unhealthy relationship". You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to hold in everything negative that they are feeling for the rest of their lives lol. I've had 2 stepsons and I completely get where the OP is coming from. Fighting against the birth parent badmouthing you is a fight you'll NEVER win. I say after 18 years and no marriage I'd start to feel a bit used. I know because I myself was used by a man to help raise his children and it will never be any better than it is now. The longer you go the more complacent he will get. I would cut and run. Life is too short to be a door mat. You'll always be second fiddle to a man's children. Their feelings trump all and always will.

You chose to quote one comment from page 1. Early in the thread and before the OP edited her original post, the major problem seemed to be that bad feelings had developed between her and the boyfriend's DD.

 

[Positive]

I have a question to add to this...OP you stated that you have tried very hard to have a relationship with his daughter. You said that you text her about school and if she is feeling I'll that you text that you hope she gets better. What kind of relationship does your bf have with your kids? Does he stay involved in their lives? Is putting forth the same effort you are? As in having and trying to maintain a relationship with them?

Yes, he does. Think of anything a father does for his kids (coaching, attending recitals, coming to school open house, homework, help with anything they need) he has done all of these things for my kids as well as his own DD over all the years I have known him.
I would also like to explain that my DDs don't have their actual bio father in their lives. My sons bio father was lackluster at best during his younger years. My DBF has been very comfortable being vocal with my kids in terms of calling them out on their behavior or when they needed to be redirected. I always backed off of doing the same with his DD when she was growing up because anything I said to her, she would tell her mother when she went back to her. This could be something as simple as "please eat over your plate". His DD, would tell her mother I said that & it would be turned into a major issue.

 

[ronandannette]

Thanks....Yes, he has told me he talks to his DD & what he tells me is that "she knows how I feel about you & that you are my choice in life. He would NEVER say to me "you can't come to my sisters house, I'm going with DD" ...what he does is let me know he is going to his sister's house with DD & no offer to me to come along with or without my own DD's joining.

Married or not, after 18 years as a couple I’d imagine you would have established your own relationship with his family members become somewhat of a “fixture” at family gatherings. What did he tell his sister about why you weren’t there? Have any of his family noticed the shifting dynamic? What do they say, especially in light of the incident you recounted as having taken place between you and the DD at a relative’s house?

 

[Positive]

With all due respect, this is a very idealistic way to look at things. I'm sorry but people are human and getting frustrated with a kids behavior and telling it like it is and calling her a brat is pretty darn mild IMO. A far cry from an "unhealthy relationship". You'd be hard pressed to find someone willing to hold in everything negative that they are feeling for the rest of their lives lol. I've had 2 stepsons and I completely get where the OP is coming from. Fighting against the birth parent badmouthing you is a fight you'll NEVER win. I say after 18 years and no marriage I'd start to feel a bit used. I know because I myself was used by a man to help raise his children and it will never be any better than it is now. The longer you go the more complacent he will get. I would cut and run. Life is too short to be a door mat. You'll always be second fiddle to a man's children. Their feelings trump all and always will.

Thanks for hearing where I was coming from. You have lived a blended family life & obviously understand the complexities. I do feel like my feelings & needs are second.

 

[Positive]

Married or not, after 18 years as a couple I’d imagine you would have established your own relationship with his family members become somewhat of a “fixture” at family gatherings. What did he tell his sister about why you weren’t there? Have any of his family noticed the shifting dynamic? What do they say, especially in light of the incident you recounted as having taken place between you and the DD at a relative’s house?

Yes, I have a strong relationship with his entire family, sans DD & they all know of this struggle. They find DDs behavior towards me horrible & also have expressed frustration that my DBF doesnt take more of a stand with her. The family members that witnessed that incident were visibly bothered. My DBFs father had very choice words for her.