M&G etiquette

[999_Happy_Haunts]

I don't understand the logic of those who say it's the same wait time? Are you just figuring one group photo for each family? What if each family wants each member to have an individual photo? We haven't done character greets for a few years so I'm curious as to why it couldn't end up making the lines much longer if each child gets an alone picture?

It's the same wait time because X=X. Let's assume a situation where everyone must wait in line. You get in line and there are 200 people in front of you. You have no way of knowing if that is a single group of 200; if it is two groups of 100; four groups of 50; 50 groups of 4; 100 groups of 2; or 200 solo travelers. (Incidentally, this unknown pokes a huge hole in the argument that some are making here that they want everyone to be in line so that they can better judge the length of the line. Because we are talking about character photo ops, you have no clue how long the line actually is, because you have no way of knowing how many "groups" are in front of you. You only know how many "people" are in front of you and that doesn't tell you much at a M&G. This isn't Space Mountain.)
So everyone stays in line. Turns out that the 200 people in front of you are actually 20 groups of 10 people each. Your wait time is going to be the amount of time it takes for the photographer to work her way through all of the photos that this group reasonably wants. You have no idea what that will be as you wait in line. But let's say it takes 7 minutes per group for a total of 140 minutes. X=140.

Now lets say that you arrive in line that uses placeholders. When you arrive there are 20 people in front of you. You have no way of knowing if that represents 20 placeholders holding spots for groups of 1, 2, 4, 8, 10 or more people. When it is the first person in line's turn to go, 9 more people join him to form a group of 10. They take 7 minutes to complete the M&G. Then it is time for the next person in line to go. She is joined by 9 more people to form a group of 10. That group takes 7 minutes. And this process repeats for all 20 people in front of you. Each person is joined by 9 other people to form groups of 10, and each group takes 7 minutes. Total time is 140 minutes. 140=X. So it doesn't matter if all 200 people stood in front of you or only 20 people stood in front of you. Either way, your wait time is 140 minutes. And in neither scenario could you have guessed that.

What people seem to be arguing is that: "Gee. If I saw a line that had 20 people in it, I would have thought that my wait time would be shorter than if I saw a line that had 200 people in it." But that fails for at least 2 reasons. First, unless you know how large each group is, you have no way of knowing how long your wait will be. A line that has 4 groups of 50 people (200 people total) will move faster than a line that has 20 solo travelers in it. (And if not faster, certainly not appreciably slower.) And when you join the line, you just don't know. The second reason why this assumption fails is that it assumes ignorance of the process on the part of the person joining the line. In the real world, this ignorance would vanish. You would get in a short line of 20 people and a CM or the person in front of you, or the person behind you would probably say something like: "Don't get too excited. These are only the placeholders in line. There are actually a lot more people in this virtual line than it appears. Oh, and by the way. Feel free to use a placeholder yourself. No reason why you shouldn't get the same benefit." Once the process is made known to you, the situation becomes clear and any "perception" of a short line goes away. Just like walking into the Dumbo tent. At first blush it might look like you could walk right on. But then you learn about how the system works and you realize that even though you cannot see a line, you will not be getting on the ride for 30 more minutes.

Others will correct me if I am wrong but it is my understanding that the character handlers have a responsibility to keep each group within a specific time frame. There is a maximum amount of time a group, whether 2 or 10 will be allowed at a character meet and greet.

While the actual time for each group to finish can vary, and yes, larger groups can take more time, the time difference is not meaningful. And besides, even if a larger group takes more time, when you divide that time up among the people in the group, it can turn out to be a shorter wait. In other words. If there are 8 people in line all of whom are couples, and each couple takes 2 minutes with the character, the total time is 4 couples x 2 minutes, or 8 minutes. That works out to 1 minute per person. But if a group of 8 people takes 4 minutes to process, then the total time for 8 people to be processed is 30 seconds per person. (8 people processed in 4 minutes.) You are better off being behind a group of 8 than you are being behind 4 groups of 2. People seem to want to use "big groups" as an upsetting factor here, but in reality, the bigger the group, the better.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Exactly. I think you're missing your own point. Just remove your own judgements from the situation and not worry about what the people in front of you are doing and thread is solved.

Uh..then the same goes for the other two posters. Generally speaking I worry about myself a lot more than others in line. But appearantly the other poster is busy figuring out the ages, the health and the desires a traveling party wants for their M&G (i.e. individual photos) rather than just worry about themselves.

 

[BadRomance]

Change the bold to The Dis Posters and you've nailed it. WDW Offically doesn't have issues with it really. Not in my eyes at least. Some folks here, heavens yes.

I don't know what happened to that comment or why it got cut off so weird. But yeah I've been to Disneyland countless of times and this is never a problem there. And we ended up having an awesome time in WDW back in 2009 and I didn't notice any grumpy people or line cutters or people bugged about line cutters ETC. So maybe it is just a dis problem to discuss and dissect online and once everyone is actually on their vacation it becomes a non issue because everyone is just having fun at the happiest place on earth?

 

[AngiTN]

Some people will always look for a reason to be upset at someone else, even if the affects on them are minimal or non-existent. It's a weird sort of jealousy where someone else is "getting something extra" and yet that "something extra" is equally available to them, they simply choose not to avail themselves of it out of some sense of self-righteousness. I would liken it to a buffet where some people think two trips to get food is acceptable and are mad that anyone else goes up for thirds. This despite the fact that the buffet is constantly being restocked.[/


I don't know what happened to that comment or why it got cut off so weird. But yeah I've been to Disneyland countless of times and this is never a problem there. And we ended up having an awesome time in WDW back in 2009 and I didn't notice any grumpy people or line cutters or people bugged about line cutters ETC. So maybe it is just a dis problem to discuss and insect online and once everyone is actually on their vacation it becomes a non issue because everyone is just having fun at the happiest place on earth?

Yes, the problem is magnified out of proportion based on reading reports here. I'm not sure why but for some reason the negative nancies are really prevalent here on this site. (used to really bother me when I first started reading here but I've learned to ignore most of those repeat, time after time posters *using the board function and skimming over the every so often ones. If you were to go by some of the postings you'd really think Disney was the unhappiest place on earth, not the happiest. But once there, I do think the vast majority are having fun and not worried about what the other guest is doing, or not doing. You have the few that are still pot stirrers, even in the parks but thankfully, they are significantly in the minority. More than likely, you'll never encounter one

 

[michelle06]

I think you failed to see my point.

You are deciding that for whatever reason kids=fine but anyone else=not fine. WDW is a place for everyone. To hammer more in the point I picked up on your comment of "I would object if a large group of college kids did this and each wanted a picture." If a family with multiple kids did what you described and each wanted a picture seems like you'd be ok with that but college aged kids nope, other adults nope. Perhaps it's because you seem to give off the impression that acceptability is only given to kids because they are kids. And my point is at a place like WDW age shouldn't be a discriminating factor. Not to mention it isn't only the college aged kids or the adults for that matter that go off and ride rides while someone else stays in line. I'm fairly certain there's been parents who do that for their children too.

I thought I did understand your point and agreed with it. Age should not be the determining factor. That's why I mentioned elderly and corrected what I said about college kids. I only use small kids as an example of things that you may need to get out of line for that people should tolerate. I also edited my original post.

 

[maxiesmom]

I don't know what happened to that comment or why it got cut off so weird. But yeah I've been to Disneyland countless of times and this is never a problem there. And we ended up having an awesome time in WDW back in 2009 and I didn't notice any grumpy people or line cutters or people bugged about line cutters ETC. So maybe it is just a dis problem to discuss and dissect online and once everyone is actually on their vacation it becomes a non issue because everyone is just having fun at the happiest place on earth?

When I'm in the parks I don't let the line cutters bug me. But if I'm having a discussion about it then yeah, I think it is wrong.

Only on the Dis would people defend those who are cutting, and then blame those who wait their turn for nastiness.

 

[AJT607]

We visited Mickey's Not So Scary Halloween Party last week and I was frustrated by my own friends on a couple of occasions where I would wait in line to meet a character and they thought that they could join me at the last minute before we got to the front of the line. In these instances, I would sacrifice some of the photos that I wanted to be respectful of other guests waiting in line. I understand people who may need to get out of a long meet-and-greet line momentarily to run to the restroom or grab ice water for the group, but the system of one person holding the spot of a much larger group can be very frustrating.

EDIT: We are all 20-somethings and I think as adults, most people should know better and be more respectful of others. I was disappointed by my friends' etiquette and I never would've felt comfortable joining someone at the front of the meet-and-greet line without waiting.

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

Yes, the problem is magnified out of proportion based on reading reports here.

And this brings us back full circle to a properly grounded reality. In truth, (and for the most part...no need to provide examples of the exception to the rule), solos who enter the line will stay there. Couples who enter the line will stay there together. Groups of adults will stay in line together. Groups of adults with older children will stay in line together. This academic exercise really just boils down to a parent who wants to take a restless young child out of line and distract them with an ice cream cone; or a grandparent who needs to sit for a while on a park bench. And when these not-blown-out-of-proportion situations arise, do we really want or need line police to jump in when their total wait time is not impacted? That is what this really distills down to.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I thought I did understand your point and agreed with it. Age should not be the determining factor. That's why I mentioned elderly and corrected what I said about college kids. I only use small kids as an example of things that you may need to get out of line for that people should tolerate. I also edited my original post.

Perhaps it was a misunderstanding honestly but it did truly seem like you were putting an emphasis on age and that for kids it was ok but if it wasn't a kid then it was a no no.

 

[slpeters]

I really don't understand this notion that anyone who disapproves of anything is somehow allowing it to ruin their day. If people really aren't able to do so that must be very hard for them. I disapprove of things all the time. With very few exceptions the only repercussion of that is that I don't engage in the behavior. I haven't seen anyone suggest any course of action beyond that. The example that somehow comes to my mind is people who blow their noses on the sidewalk. I think that's disgusting. If someone I was with did this I might very well think less of them. I've only experienced it a few times (mercifully never by anyone I knew) but I'm definitely opposed to it. And what effect does it have on my life? Well, I don't blow my nose on the sidewalk. It's certainly never ruined my day. Now on the other hand if someone wants to engage me in a conversation about how blowing one's nose on the sidewalk is an awesome thing to do, yes I suppose I will register that I am inclined to disagree. No day ruined...

 

[999_Happy_Haunts]

Now on the other hand if someone wants to engage me in a conversation about how blowing one's nose on the sidewalk is an awesome thing to do, yes I suppose I will register that I am inclined to disagree.

It can be mathematically proven that blowing one's nose on the sidew.........Ohhhhhhhhhh. Nevermind.

 

[BadRomance]

When I'm in the parks I don't let the line cutters bug me. But if I'm having a discussion about it then yeah, I think it is wrong.

Only on the Dis would people defend those who are cutting, and then blame those who wait their turn for nastiness.

But let's be honest here, you have to admit that sometimes these discussions are completely blown out of proportion and are taken way too seriously. Just like (insert age) is too big for a stroller! Double strollers are the devil! Or the rider swap pass is cheating! Or the South American tour groups will ruin your trip with all the chanting! It gets to be pretty ridiculous after a while. This board had me scared to death of our January trip that the fifteens were going to be constantly line jumping and chanting the whole time. When the truth was that we hardly even noticed them. And when we did notice them, it was because my dd4 wanted one of their matching backpacks. They were super well behaved and courteous. So that's what I'm trying to comment on is for the op who asked the question, or for anyone else who may come across this thread- that while opinions of this will vary, if you are respectful about it, people won't even notice if you leave a M&G line at a party and come back for whatever reason. Most people will be too busy enjoying their own vacation to be bothered.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I really don't understand this notion that anyone who disapproves of anything is somehow allowing it to ruin their day.

It's going to take a lot to ruin my day to be honest. Sure momentary irritation and annoyance but ruin my day? Unlikely.

 

[AndreaA]

I thought I did understand your point and agreed with it. Age should not be the determining factor. That's why I mentioned elderly and corrected what I said about college kids. I only use small kids as an example of things that you may need to get out of line for that people should tolerate. I also edited my original post.

Yup, I don't care about age either. I was only stuck on the "kid" thing because people had been saying that even little kids should be able to handle the lines, and frankly if ever there was an excuse for needing to leave a line, little kids are it! That doesn't mean that others might not have equally valid reasons - or simply desires. I think I mentioned DAS holders in my post but that might have been a different version (I was interrupted a couple of times while posting and had to start over) but I don't even limit it to them. Wanna use a placeholder? Go right ahead. Won't bother me or affect the time I wait in any appreciable way.

 

[KyleAfterAWhile]

What are your thoughts on etiquette while standing in a long M&G line? Thinking in particular of MNSSHP long lines, some of which begin at 4 for a character that might not appear for 2-3 hours. Is it ok for people within the same group to come and go? Is it ok to eat a meal in line? Would it be bad form for a few of us to use a FP and ride something, then switch places so the others can ride?

I personally wouldn't mind if the people around us did that (unless they ended up having individual photos with each person and the character and taking up a lot of unnecessary time) but I also realize that it might be very annoying to more people than I realize.

I do not care if people eat in line. That is up to Disney to manage.

I do not care if one or two people hold a place for the rest of the family while we are all just sitting and waiting for hours either. I would prefer antsy children leave the line than annoy me.

I have not been to many parties, but the ones I have done do not allow individual photos (8 people to do 15 different photos) on headliner characters.

Quite honestly, I do not see what the big deal is..... if you have 10 people in front of you now or 4 people in front of you now and 6 join later - the party size is the same.

Reading through this thread, people get uptight about things way too easy. So bothered over such trivial things. No wonder so many people suffer from heart issues, HBP, anxiety, etc.

 

[maxiesmom]

[QUOTE="KyleAfterAWhile, post: 58232233, member: 602785"

Quite honestly, I do not see what the big deal is..... if you have 10 people in front of you now or 4 people in front of you now and 6 join later - the party size is the same.

Reading through this thread, people get uptight about things way too easy. So bothered over such trivial things. No wonder so many people suffer from heart issues, HBP, anxiety, etc.[/QUOTE]

The big deal is many people decide to get in line or not to get in line based on the size of the line.

 

[NicholeB630]

I didn't read all these as its a lot. But Im sure some disagree with me and some agree. I would think if your entire party started in the line SO the people behind you were aware of how many were ahead and then they left in pairs or one by one during the wait then I see no issue in that. BUT if I'm in line say with my family behind 2 people in front who I assume is only two people the entire time and then when the line starts moving and all of a sudden 6 more people show up .. Id be annoyed. At least be there at first so that way its shown who is in your party. We waited for Seven Dwarfs at halloween party and people were sitting and eating and chatting. People came and went and it was fine. My son and Husband went and used a FP while my daughter and I waited.

 

[KyleAfterAWhile]

"maxiesmom, post: 58232335, member: 69436"]

Quite honestly, I do not see what the big deal is..... if you have 10 people in front of you now or 4 people in front of you now and 6 join later - the party size is the same.

Reading through this thread, people get uptight about things way too easy. So bothered over such trivial things. No wonder so many people suffer from heart issues, HBP, anxiety, etc.

The big deal is many people decide to get in line or not to get in line based on the size of the line.

Some people always have to have something to whine about or have to have a reason to complain about others. What a sad way to live.[/QUOTE]

 

[mickey1968]

But this is only true if others can avail themselves of an opportunity that is not available to you. But such is not the case. Everyone can participate in the process just as they do at Dumbo. If your group uses a placeholder, and my group uses a placeholder, and the group behind me uses a placeholder, and so on and so on all the way down the line, who is getting cheated?

I visit Disney solo. Who will hold my place so I can go ride BTMRR and HM while I am "in line" for meeting Jack and Sally?

 

[Disneylover99]

My kids went character crazy last month at DW. All they wanted to do was wait in lines to meet characters. So we did. We met a ton of characters!

What I've learned is that people should not be influenced by the size of the line. There are just too many variables.

Some of the shortest lines had the longest waits. Some of the longest lines had the shortest waits. We saw groups of 10-15 people take a quick picture and move on. We saw single people taking forever with characters and really engaging with them. You just never know.