Paid FP options coming soon to WDW?

[TheFloatingBear]

Whenever I've been there over Easter, they've had two daytime parades. I'm not saying they could do that everyday but they did eliminate a night parade - and the Jamin' Jungle parade at AK (although maybe ROL was supposed to be a replacement in terms of crowds?).

In reading this thread it's occurred to me that FP+ has kind of affected how my family tours in that we probably do less people eaters in general now, because we just get another FP for a ride instead.

Except People Mover, because there's always time for People Mover (although not sure that really eats crowds!).

 

[anomamatt]

Not everything has to be a headliner though. You can do smaller rides that still eat a lot of people. I imagine a third ride in Pandora would have spread crowds better.

I would argue any improvement of the product will garner more interest. People rope dropped Dumbo (and it had very long lines) when it opened, after all...

The "problem" right now with the crowds is that the product is valued above the price of admission. Any improvement in the product isn't going to help. Increasing pricing is the only realistic way to decrease and spread out the crowds. Looking at 2018's MNSSHP, the variable pricing absolutely helped spread crowds. Parties in the same week with >$10 difference in pricing made the lower priced party more crowded (despite being on a less desirable day).

 

[PrincessV]

In reading this thread it's occurred to me that FP+ has kind of affected how my family tours in that we probably do less people eaters in general now, because we just get another FP for a ride instead.

I've been thinking about it for a few days, and have concluded about the same thing. I feel like FP, and FP+ to an even greater degree, has made me far more resistant to waiting than I used to be. Once upon a time, I happily waited 2 hours in line for Space, but I'll now leave the park entirely if nothing is less than 20 mins and I can't get a FP. I don't feel that way at all at Universal, where I see a 45-min wait posted and think, "That's not bad - let's do it!" I think years and years of breezing through FP lines has really changed how I view wait times. I'm trying to readjust my mindset and expectations with SWGE opening soon.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

Not everything has to be a headliner though. You can do smaller rides that still eat a lot of people. I imagine a third ride in Pandora would have spread crowds better.

I agree with this in theory but does seem like people really gravitate towards the headliners. Just thinking back, no matter how long lines for Soarin', Test Track, etc. got there was never much of a line at all for Universe of Energy

Obviously we are a few years out, but will be interesting to see how things are once Guardians and Rat and Tron, etc. open so there are more major attractions (and new major attractions) to draw people to. Will Mine Train still get crazy waits after Tron opens? Stuff like that

 

[mom2rtk]

I would love to know the CM to guest ratio in the parks these days. I can guarantee it's far lower than it used to be. More CMs won't lower the crowds, but it could go a long way to improving guest experience.

Longer park hours would go a long way to mitigating the effect of big crowds, but they keep looking for ways to cut back rather than increase.

They have shown themselves how to add capacity (in Toy Story and Soarin).

More shows (like would have happened with Main Street Theater) would help but they don't want to pay the talent.

They seem interested in anything that doesn't cost them money while ignoring the fact that these huge crowds bring so much more revenue.

 

[SaharanTea]

I agree with this in theory but does seem like people really gravitate towards the headliners. Just thinking back, no matter how long lines for Soarin', Test Track, etc. got there was never much of a line at all for Universe of Energy

Obviously we are a few years out, but will be interesting to see how things are once Guardians and Rat and Tron, etc. open so there are more major attractions (and new major attractions) to draw people to. Will Mine Train still get crazy waits after Tron opens? Stuff like that

When I hear people eater, I think PotC, Haunted Mansion, even IaSW. They have huge capacities and still maintain lines all day. Ellen's might have a big capacity, but it was clear it was just not a popular ride (like my poor homie, Figment). Heck, Navi River could have been a people eater, but they cut it down (not sure if it would have been before the cut, but it could have been).

It's clear the parks can handle the crowds they are getting from a physical capacity standpoint (so far). It may "feel" crowded, but they rarely slow or stop the inflow of guests (maybe a few times per year). What really makes it feel crowded to me are the lines, and I think that's what we're actually talking about. They need things that are going to enjoyably tie people up for most of an hour at a time. They plop out in a gift shop, buy a couple of trinkets, and go on to their next attraction. It sounds like this is more the direction of the Star Wars attractions with that 28-minute experience.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

When I hear people eater, I think PotC, Haunted Mansion, even IaSW. They have huge capacities and still maintain lines all day. Ellen's might have a big capacity, but it was clear it was just not a popular ride (like my poor homie, Figment). Heck, Navi River could have been a people eater, but they cut it down (not sure if it would have been before the cut, but it could have been).

It's clear the parks can handle the crowds they are getting from a physical capacity standpoint (so far). It may "feel" crowded, but they rarely slow or stop the inflow of guests (maybe a few times per year). What really makes it feel crowded to me are the lines, and I think that's what we're actually talking about. They need things that are going to enjoyably tie people up for most of an hour at a time. They plop out in a gift shop, buy a couple of trinkets, and go on to their next attraction. It sounds like this is more the direction of the Star Wars attractions with that 28-minute experience.

I agree - and one reason MK seems to handle the crowds better (obviously just sheer number of rides helps, but they have a lot of those "middle level rides" that people won't wait 2 hours for, but will wait 20+Mins for and eat some people for a while

I am not a huge parade person but they also do take up peoples time as well. Adding something to AK or EPCOT might help a bit

I know the festivals at EPCOT bring more people to the park, but they do also take up people's time ... and time they are in line at a booth or eating their sample is time they are not in line for a ride

 

[mom2rtk]

I know the festivals at EPCOT bring more people to the park, but they do also take up people's time ... and time they are in line at a booth or eating their sample is time they are not in line for a ride

An alternative to the festivals would to be add more character greets. Those can be popped up all over the place to occupy the masses. But I don't think there are any more now than there were more than a decade ago when we started going routinely. They add new ones but always seem to take away others to pay for it.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

An alternative to the festivals would to be add more character greets. Those can be popped up all over the place to occupy the masses. But I don't think there are any more now than there were more than a decade ago when we started going routinely. They add new ones but always seem to take away others to pay for it.

does seem to be more replace vs additional for sure

maybe with the Play pavilion coming to EPCOT there might be more/additional there

 

[saskdw]

I would love to know the CM to guest ratio in the parks these days. I can guarantee it's far lower than it used to be. More CMs won't lower the crowds, but it could go a long way to improving guest experience.

Longer park hours would go a long way to mitigating the effect of big crowds, but they keep looking for ways to cut back rather than increase.

They have shown themselves how to add capacity (in Toy Story and Soarin).

More shows (like would have happened with Main Street Theater) would help but they don't want to pay the talent.

They seem interested in anything that doesn't cost them money while ignoring the fact that these huge crowds bring so much more revenue.

I wonder if it's even possible for them to hire more CM's? It seems the workforce in Orlando for people willing to work for those wages may be maxed out?

 

[mom2rtk]

I wonder if it's even possible for them to hire more CM's? It seems the workforce in Orlando for people willing to work for those wages may be maxed out?

Maybe it's time to increase their college program.

 

[The Pho]

I wonder if it's even possible for them to hire more CM's? It seems the workforce in Orlando for people willing to work for those wages may be maxed out?

Maybe it's time to increase their college program.

Between the college program and the heavy growth Orlando is experiencing (one of the highest in the country), they could certainly find people if they wanted.

 

[Sarah1024]

I wonder if it's even possible for them to hire more CM's? It seems the workforce in Orlando for people willing to work for those wages may be maxed out?

No, I don't think so. There are always people who want to work at Disney and who move there just for that.

 

[Remy is Up]

I've been thinking about it for a few days, and have concluded about the same thing. I feel like FP, and FP+ to an even greater degree, has made me far more resistant to waiting than I used to be. Once upon a time, I happily waited 2 hours in line for Space, but I'll now leave the park entirely if nothing is less than 20 mins and I can't get a FP. I don't feel that way at all at Universal, where I see a 45-min wait posted and think, "That's not bad - let's do it!" I think years and years of breezing through FP lines has really changed how I view wait times. I'm trying to readjust my mindset and expectations with SWGE opening soon.

Proper use of refresh makes it to where you still dont have to stand in stand by lines currently. I cant recall the last time we stood in a stand by line for anything, including the high end wanted attractions. A new version of FP that would make it some sort of paid system, even a nominal charge, will lower the number of people using it. And since the number of people who actually know how to use it in any park on a given day is so low as it is, this would only make it easier to use the system to your benefit. Eliminating "windows" and making it day of only or only allowing 1 pre booked FP per day and then making anything above that or even above 3 a nominal charge, certainly benefits those who understand the system and know how to use refresh. Im still waiting to see how they frame the program before passing judgement because Im not opposed to some sort of paid system similar to MaxPass. My reality is, a WDW vacation costs what it costs and as long as I feel its beneficial to pay for After Hours, stay where I have access to EMH, attend parties, or such, then Ill measure it on each trip and make a decision.

 

[TheMaxRebo]

I wonder if it's even possible for them to hire more CM's? It seems the workforce in Orlando for people willing to work for those wages may be maxed out?

well, they could pay more - that would attract more people

And not just the starting salary (which probably needs to move up but I don't think *that* much beyond when they get to $15/hour) - but more those CMs that want to make a career out of it, pay them enough that then can stay

 

[Cinderumbrella]

Proper use of refresh makes it to where you still dont have to stand in stand by lines currently. I cant recall the last time we stood in a stand by line for anything, including the high end wanted attractions. A new version of FP that would make it some sort of paid system, even a nominal charge, will lower the number of people using it. And since the number of people who actually know how to use it in any park on a given day is so low as it is, this would only make it easier to use the system to your benefit. Eliminating "windows" and making it day of only or only allowing 1 pre booked FP per day and then making anything above that or even above 3 a nominal charge, certainly benefits those who understand the system and know how to use refresh. Im still waiting to see how they frame the program before passing judgement because Im not opposed to some sort of paid system similar to MaxPass. My reality is, a WDW vacation costs what it costs and as long as I feel its beneficial to pay for After Hours, stay where I have access to EMH, attend parties, or such, then Ill measure it on each trip and make a decision.

You are assuming that there will still be “free” FP to obtain by refreshing. I’m guessing there won’t be for super headliners (and definitely not if you already rode one with a FP that day).

 

[The Pho]

You are assuming that there will still be “free” FP to obtain by refreshing. I’m guessing there won’t be for super headliners (and definitely not if you already rode one with a FP that day).

If they want to charge for them, they have to drop the refresh trick. There’s no way they’d keep that, it would cut into the sales.

 

[Hikergirl]

As a shareholder, I am concerned that a company that peddles "good will" is risking its reputation for short term quarterly targets. In the 90's, Nike tarnished their corporate image with sweatshops that served the bottom line well at the cost of the brand image. It took years for Nike to recover.

As Disney continues to gobble up content creators/media outlets, and grow as a corporate behemoth; if the success of the parks does not anchor the organization through it's capital-hemorrhaging media growth phase; if people are turned off from perceived gouging at the parks and the legs upon which TWDC now stands is taken out from underneath it, as a shareholder I would be very worried. And worse, as a dad who is introducing his son to the "Disney Magic" the risk is real that they could lose a generation of Disney fans.

So yeah, there are logical reasons why a company chasing the bottom line should take stock occasionally. Good will has value. Disney knows that better than most companies

Well I personally don't equate sweatshops with offering paid extras available to theme park guests. As a shareholder if you do, maybe its time to sell and keep your kids away from anything Disney related.

 

[crvetter]

If they want to charge for them, they have to drop the refresh trick. There’s no way they’d keep that, it would cut into the sales.

I think they drop it to an extent, push less headliners to be released to free but if it is absolutely necessary to entice people from a land that is an issue they probably will and the average user won't even second guess it. The refresh trick isn't much a trick but a deliberate design of the system so the parks are operated at "peak" efficiency by controlling crowds.

 

[HeiHei2018]

Eliminating "windows" and making it day of only or only allowing 1 pre booked FP per day and then making anything above that or even above 3 a nominal charge, certainly benefits those who understand the system and know how to use refresh. Im still waiting to see how they frame the program before passing judgement because Im not opposed to some sort of paid system similar to MaxPass.

As much as I dislike the constraints of timed windows, I hope they keep them. We visited a smaller amusement park with an Express Pass-type option. The standby line would come to a stop for 10-15 minutes when rushes of people showed up in the Express line. It was incredibly frustrating when the line completely stopped. I came home from that park and started planning my next Disney trip.