tilikums' life today

[Shamurocks]

Seems to me you just like to argue "Julieannbabe", may I direct to "The Rectory":
http://pub7.bravenet.com/forum/static/show.php?usernum=551909778&frmid=14&msgid=0

Here you can join Russ Rector in being just as closed minded as you without clogging up this board.

I would also like to second a point made in the post above, do you actually campaign for your cause? or sit on your computer arguing to complete strangers about captivity? If you want to make a difference I would definitely not suggest the latter.

O by the way, you never answered my question I posted earlier

 

[tarrbear]

Okay, can we just agree to disagree? We obviously have two conflicting opinions that aren't gonna change. I think its time to just close this thread.

 

[julieannbabe]

Ill admit, that yes, it would be boring to look at those walls and thats an added reason to have the shows. But they also get stimulation from the trainers, and various toys they are given throughout the day. And yes, Seaworld's pools are some of the largest in the world.

give a 12 tonne orca a toy to play with? is that 'normal' to do that? that doesn't ring any alarm bells in your head? none what so ever? you don't think that is perverse on any level?

we are all in trouble if we think that is normal to do.

i am not trying to make trouble - i am replying to your posts. you and others don't like it because i have valid points to make and the truth hurts.

i wish people would read these posts properly instead of just jumping in.
i have been to seaworld in the past. then i got educated.

 

[T16GEM]

The poster above me said it too. It would be a boring life just swimming around all day. That is why they have the shows. And like I said before the animals are NEVER forced to perform. If they dont want to, they dont..

I have been to shows at Sea World before, and specifically Believe in January of this year where the start of the show was delayed by 15 minutes or so because the whales didn't want to come out into the main pool. The trainers explained what was happening and that they had no way of forcing them out to the pool for the show. I don't think it's possible to force a creature of that size out to do a show! I'd love to see someone try! I guess what I'm trying to say is that there is no way that the whales would do the shows if they were not enjoying the interaction.

I have seen Tilikum on many occasions just chilling in the viewing tank, this is nothing new since the accident.

if seaworld 'rescued' tilly (i say 'bought') as you say why didn't they put the whale in a sea pen and re-introduce the whale back to the wild slowly?
because there is no money to be made in releasing a whale back in the ocean is there?
but there is money to be made to see a whale on display and doing tricks.

I honestly cannot understand how you think a whale that has lived in captivity for so long would actually survive in the wild. You might as well just sentence them to death as there is no way that it would ever work.

give a 12 tonne orca a toy to play with? is that 'normal' to do that? that doesn't ring any alarm bells in your head? none what so ever? you don't think that is perverse on any level?

we are all in trouble if we think that is normal to do.

i am not trying to make trouble - i am replying to your posts. you and others don't like it because i have valid points to make and the truth hurts.

i wish people would read these posts properly instead of just jumping in.
i have been to seaworld in the past. then i got educated.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it does seem that you are wanting an argurment, why else would you deliberatly post something on a SW discussion board, quite obviously where the majority of the people love to visit SW and are asking about tips on how to enjoythe park etc. Honesly you would have to be rather dense to think that people weren't going to get upset with your point of view.

Personally I have been visiting SW since I was 8 years old and I am always very impressed with the work that they do there. How many animals have they saved? Do you know that? I doubt it as you are just interested in spouting propaganda.

 

[Dax]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but it does seem that you are wanting an argurment, why else would you deliberatly post something on a SW discussion board, quite obviously where the majority of the people love to visit SW and are asking about tips on how to enjoythe park etc. Honesly you would have to be rather dense to think that people weren't going to get upset with your point of view.

She has not only posted on the SW board, there is also a discussion about The Cove going on over at the Community Board as well...

I am not going to vent my opinions here....I will say I am an avid fan of SW, but I also do not always agree with what is going on there, but it is what it is...

I also would like an answer to the question...do you have a problem with other animals in captivity, or just the whales? What about the manatees? What about the Sea Lions? Or how about the rhino's at AK and BGT...or is that OK because they arent killer whales?

 

[KBF]

give a 12 tonne orca a toy to play with? is that 'normal' to do that? that doesn't ring any alarm bells in your head? none what so ever? you don't think that is perverse on any level?

we are all in trouble if we think that is normal to do.

i am not trying to make trouble - i am replying to your posts. you and others don't like it because i have valid points to make and the truth hurts.

i wish people would read these posts properly instead of just jumping in.
i have been to seaworld in the past. then i got educated.

Well like I said before you have your opinion and I have mine. Neither are going to change. So lets quit while we're ahead.

 

[AdventureLover67]

Okay, I've never rescued a whale,dolphin or manatee but have rehabilatated many a small mammal (squirrels, possums, flying squirrels). I did this for several years and I will say it is best to return things to the wild when possible. With that said, some animals tend to "imprint" on humans thus rendering them ineligible to release into the wild.

If an animal imprints it sees humans as a food source or friend. If you have an animal that sees humans that way you are endangering both the animal and the humans by releasing them into the wild. Even the best of rehabbers have this happen from time to time. Oh, and as far as toys go, there is nothing "perverse" about it as one poster stated. Granted that in the wild there is no "critters R us" stores but animals DO make their own "toys" and it does indeed stimulate their minds. Not to be offensive but one of the favorite "toys" of Orcas are dead seals. They will toss them around for hours like a human would play with a basketball. It's just animal behavior but I don't think that would fly at SW for the public.

I was saddened to learn that SW did indeed have purchased animals that had been captured from the wild. For years I thought all of them fell under the unreleasable/born in captivity category.
That is one area I do not and will not ever support. If something is wild, leave it be wild. No one has the right to steal it and imprison it. I just think it is so wrong and I hope SW never engages in this practice again.

SW HAS done more for the marine world in education, conservation and awareness than any other organization I can think of. It is a business but I can't think of too many business's that give so much to a worthwhile cause.

Oh, by the way, one final point...of the wildlife I have released by my house, I do have about 5 squirrels who choose to be "tame". One will even greet people on the porch (although not everyone thinks it's cute!
I'm pretty sure if the SW and DC animals could talk many would tell you they want to stay right where they are.

I also agree with the people who stated it is wrong to be an "activist" and just post hatred on boards. I'm not saying anyone here is doing that but that is how PETA is and truth be told, they have done a LOT of things to bring harm to animals. I will never understand the point of locking young women naked in cages with their faces painted like cats. They seem to do that a lot!
Also don't understand when they "free" lab animals. Yeah, that's a really good idea....just let a rat or ferret who doesn't have a clue how to find food, know what their predators are or aren't acclimated to outside weather run free.

Sorry for my soap box post. I am an animal lover and think there are valid points from all of the posters on here. Hopefully there will one day be a good resolution for Tili. He obviously is not a happy Orca.

 

[KBF]

I was saddened to learn that SW did indeed have purchased animals that had been captured from the wild. For years I thought all of them fell under the unreleasable/born in captivity category.
That is one area I do not and will not ever support. If something is wild, leave it be wild. No one has the right to steal it and imprison it. I just think it is so wrong and I hope SW never engages in this practice again.



Sorry for my soap box post. I am an animal lover and think there are valid points from all of the posters on here. Hopefully there will one day be a good resolution for Tili. He obviously is not a happy Orca.

The collecting of Seaworld's whales and dolphins from the wild took place in the 1960s and early 1970s. It was acceptable at the time then. Seaworld has not done so since. All of Seaworld current dolphins as well as all but 4 of their whales were born in captivity. Three of the 4 whales were captured by other marine parks. Seaworld rescued them, one of the me being Tilly when the parks could no longer care for them.

No one can say for sure whether Tilly is happy or unhappy. But to figure it out, you would have to get a better understanding of his personality and the way he is worked with. I dont think you can base this assumption, that he is unhappy, off of the one incident in February. Like I said before, you need to understand his situation.

Tilly never has trainers in the water with him, even before the incident. The trainer, Dawn, was laying on a shallow ledge on the side of the pool. Killer whales are very inquisitive by nature and when her hair fell near his mouth, he may have thought it was a toy to play with. So he pulled on it. And she fell in. Now imagine you were Tilly, and finally, a trainer was in the water with you. You see the trainers getting in the water with the other whales and now this is your chance to play with a trainer too. So you start to push her around with your nose and hold her underwater. You dont know any better. But then alarms start going off and you can sense panic. And now people are trying to take your trainer away from you. You dont want that. You want to play with your trainer. (Tilly is a very possessive whale btw. It takes a long time for the trainers to retrieve his toys because he wants to keep them for himself. Kind of like a dog with a fresh bone or new toy). In the panic, you start to get angry and scared when the nets are deployed into the water to try and retrieve the trainer. At this point your not letting go and your taking your anger out on the trainer. And then, you know what happens next.

My point is, that you cant really know for sure what happened. I dont know for sure, all that above is my personal guess based off of what I know about Tilly. Im not telling you to believe that. Its just a guess. I think it was an animal being an animal. I think Tilly is misunderstood and not an angry monster that some people make him out to be. This was his FIRST incident. Not third like people have said. The incident in 1999, the guy who was stoned and drunk when he climbed into Tillys pool at night after park closing, was found to have died of hypothermia and not injures related to Tilly. The first incident in the late 80s, early 90s when a trainer in canada slipped into the pool with Tilly and two pregnant female whales, it was the two pregnant females that attacked and killed the trainer. Not Tilly. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anyway sorry that was long. Its good to see both sides of the issue. I commend you for that. No wrong doing on your part. I hope that you do visit Seaworld again in the future and know that the majority of your money goes to a good cause and that the animals are loved, respected and cared for at Seaworld.

 

[Disneycrazy!!]

The collecting of Seaworld's whales and dolphins from the wild took place in the 1960s and early 1970s. It was acceptable at the time then. Seaworld has not done so since. All of Seaworld current dolphins as well as all but 4 of their whales were born in captivity. Three of the 4 whales were captured by other marine parks. Seaworld rescued them, one of the me being Tilly when the parks could no longer care for them.

No one can say for sure whether Tilly is happy or unhappy. But to figure it out, you would have to get a better understanding of his personality and the way he is worked with. I dont think you can base this assumption, that he is unhappy, off of the one incident in February. Like I said before, you need to understand his situation.

Tilly never has trainers in the water with him, even before the incident. The trainer, Dawn, was laying on a shallow ledge on the side of the pool. Killer whales are very inquisitive by nature and when her hair fell near his mouth, he may have thought it was a toy to play with. So he pulled on it. And she fell in. Now imagine you were Tilly, and finally, a trainer was in the water with you. You see the trainers getting in the water with the other whales and now this is your chance to play with a trainer too. So you start to push her around with your nose and hold her underwater. You dont know any better. But then alarms start going off and you can sense panic. And now people are trying to take your trainer away from you. You dont want that. You want to play with your trainer. (Tilly is a very possessive whale btw. It takes a long time for the trainers to retrieve his toys because he wants to keep them for himself. Kind of like a dog with a fresh bone or new toy). In the panic, you start to get angry and scared when the nets are deployed into the water to try and retrieve the trainer. At this point your not letting go and your taking your anger out on the trainer. And then, you know what happens next.

My point is, that you cant really know for sure what happened. I dont know for sure, all that above is my personal guess based off of what I know about Tilly. Im not telling you to believe that. Its just a guess. I think it was an animal being an animal. I think Tilly is misunderstood and not an angry monster that some people make him out to be. This was his FIRST incident. Not third like people have said. The incident in 1999, the guy who was stoned and drunk when he climbed into Tillys pool at night after park closing, was found to have died of hypothermia and not injures related to Tilly. The first incident in the late 80s, early 90s when a trainer in canada slipped into the pool with Tilly and two pregnant female whales, it was the two pregnant females that attacked and killed the trainer. Not Tilly. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anyway sorry that was long. Its good to see both sides of the issue. I commend you for that. No wrong doing on your part. I hope that you do visit Seaworld again in the future and know that the majority of your money goes to a good cause and that the animals are loved, respected and cared for at Seaworld.

Thank you so much for your post!!! We had the pleasure of helping with a training session today with Tilly at the underwater viewing spot. Tilly was really enjoying it. He also had a Salmon fish head, that he played with all day today! He would only briefly let go of it for a split second to eat his other fish. He seemed very possesive over it like you mentioned. We also watched as they gave him a rub down with hoses, and he also was taken into another tank to go play with the other whales. I am just so amazed at how beautiful he is and how BIG!

 

[SandrA9810]

Thank you so much for your post!!! We had the pleasure of helping with a training session today with Tilly at the underwater viewing spot. Tilly was really enjoying it. He also had a Salmon fish head, that he played with all day today! He would only briefly let go of it for a split second to eat his other fish. He seemed very possesive over it like you mentioned. We also watched as they gave him a rub down with hoses, and he also was taken into another tank to go play with the other whales. I am just so amazed at how beautiful he is and how BIG!

I'm jealous, I would love to have been there too. It's amazing how much the water/windows can play tricks on our eyes when seeing them down below. But to see that great big tail come up out of the water to soak you with water... Yeah, you don't forget the size of that.


It also makes me laugh about how many people complain about wild animals in captivity, but still have a pet cat, dog, maybe even a horse at home. Just because humans have domesticated animals for thousands of years, doesn't make the species any less wild when people took them out of it. (that doesn't make much sense, but I don't know how to put it at 2am).

Any case, I don't personally find it wrong to breed an animal in captivity for whatever reason they want to have. As long as they're not affecting the wild population. Which even goes down to the lab rat. They want to breed a million of them for whatever tests they want to perform, then so be it. But don't go catching animals off the street.
We breed all sorts of animals for eating. Chicken, cows, goats, and whatever else you want to eat. There's still wild hogs, turkeys, and horses roaming around.

Sea World uses its breeding program of different animals to see how they live and thrive. How long the mother cares for the young, how families stay together. If partners reunite year after year. They do it all to protect the wild ones. And not just make assumptions about how the animal world works, we can't protect without knowing.

 

[julieannbabe]

Tilly never has trainers in the water with him, even before the incident. The trainer, Dawn, was laying on a shallow ledge on the side of the pool. Killer whales are very inquisitive by nature and when her hair fell near his mouth, he may have thought it was a toy to play with. So he pulled on it. And she fell in. Now imagine you were Tilly, and finally, a trainer was in the water with you. You see the trainers getting in the water with the other whales and now this is your chance to play with a trainer too. So you start to push her around with your nose and hold her underwater. You dont know any better. But then alarms start going off and you can sense panic. And now people are trying to take your trainer away from you. You dont want that. You want to play with your trainer. (Tilly is a very possessive whale btw. It takes a long time for the trainers to retrieve his toys because he wants to keep them for himself. Kind of like a dog with a fresh bone or new toy). In the panic, you start to get angry and scared when the nets are deployed into the water to try and retrieve the trainer. At this point your not letting go and your taking your anger out on the trainer. And then, you know what happens next.

her hair didn't get caught in his mouth - he grabbed her and pulled her in the pool - then he rammed her - she tried to re-surface but he pulled her down again:

http://timzimmermann.com/2010/07/16...le-you-will-not-be-seeing-dawn-brancheau-die/

has anyone seen the autopsy report? awful, just awful.

 

[AdventureLover67]

The collecting of Seaworld's whales and dolphins from the wild took place in the 1960s and early 1970s. It was acceptable at the time then. Seaworld has not done so since. All of Seaworld current dolphins as well as all but 4 of their whales were born in captivity. Three of the 4 whales were captured by other marine parks. Seaworld rescued them, one of the me being Tilly when the parks could no longer care for them.

No one can say for sure whether Tilly is happy or unhappy. But to figure it out, you would have to get a better understanding of his personality and the way he is worked with. I dont think you can base this assumption, that he is unhappy, off of the one incident in February. Like I said before, you need to understand his situation.

Tilly never has trainers in the water with him, even before the incident. The trainer, Dawn, was laying on a shallow ledge on the side of the pool. Killer whales are very inquisitive by nature and when her hair fell near his mouth, he may have thought it was a toy to play with. So he pulled on it. And she fell in. Now imagine you were Tilly, and finally, a trainer was in the water with you. You see the trainers getting in the water with the other whales and now this is your chance to play with a trainer too. So you start to push her around with your nose and hold her underwater. You dont know any better. But then alarms start going off and you can sense panic. And now people are trying to take your trainer away from you. You dont want that. You want to play with your trainer. (Tilly is a very possessive whale btw. It takes a long time for the trainers to retrieve his toys because he wants to keep them for himself. Kind of like a dog with a fresh bone or new toy). In the panic, you start to get angry and scared when the nets are deployed into the water to try and retrieve the trainer. At this point your not letting go and your taking your anger out on the trainer. And then, you know what happens next.

My point is, that you cant really know for sure what happened. I dont know for sure, all that above is my personal guess based off of what I know about Tilly. Im not telling you to believe that. Its just a guess. I think it was an animal being an animal. I think Tilly is misunderstood and not an angry monster that some people make him out to be. This was his FIRST incident. Not third like people have said. The incident in 1999, the guy who was stoned and drunk when he climbed into Tillys pool at night after park closing, was found to have died of hypothermia and not injures related to Tilly. The first incident in the late 80s, early 90s when a trainer in canada slipped into the pool with Tilly and two pregnant female whales, it was the two pregnant females that attacked and killed the trainer. Not Tilly. He was in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Anyway sorry that was long. Its good to see both sides of the issue. I commend you for that. No wrong doing on your part. I hope that you do visit Seaworld again in the future and know that the majority of your money goes to a good cause and that the animals are loved, respected and cared for at Seaworld.

Thank you for the clarification regarding the "purchases". As I said earlier, it just took me by surprise to learn of ANY purchase of the marine life because that contradicted what I had always believed.

My assumption that Tilly is not happy is mainly made by the fact that Orcas are social creatures and I've heard several reports of aggressive type behavior. You are right though that no one can know for sure, only Tilly knows how he feels. I credit SW with doing everything in their power to both keep Tilly happy and the humans safe. The situation is what it is and release into the wild does not seem an appropriate choice. Let's face it, Tilly see's humans as a food source. I shudder to think if he was released into the wild and a whaling ship happened upon him......

It seems as if you also have a passion for wildlife and thank you for your open minded and informative post. I really enjoyed reading your response!

 

[KBF]

her hair didn't get caught in his mouth - he grabbed her and pulled her in the pool - then he rammed her - she tried to re-surface but he pulled her down again:

http://timzimmermann.com/2010/07/16...le-you-will-not-be-seeing-dawn-brancheau-die/

has anyone seen the autopsy report? awful, just awful.

I know. I said that in my post.

So he pulled on it. And she fell in.

And then I aknowledged that he held her underwater and rammed her around. Or Pushing her around with his nose. And since this is a community board, with kids, I spared the "Details" of the rest of the incident.

Its no secret and im not denying it. Im just stating that Tilly is misunderstood. I dont think he did this out of hatred for Dawn. I think he was scared and angry when they tried to take her away from him. Because like I said, he is a very possesive whale.

Here to prove my point about him being a possesive whale: Another article written by this Zimmermann guy that I just read last night actually. He interviews a former Seaworld trainer who worked there when Tilly was brought in around 1992. She explains about the incident regarding Tilly at the Marine Park in Canada. Here is a quote from her explaining what Tilly did with the body of the trainer from Canada once the other whales had killed her.

Tilikum wouldn’t give her DEAD body back for hours because he was in possession of the “toy” and it was rare for the females to part with a toy and let him play with it.

So again. Its only my guess, but I believe when the trainers tried to recover Dawn from Tilly's Pool, he became angry that they were trying to take away his trainer, his toy, and he acted out aggressively. As hard as it is to believe, I think that he was playing and having fun to begin with and then like I said became angry when trainers tried to take Dawn away from him. If you give a dog a new toy or bone, they are happy and enjoy the toy or bone. But what do they do when you reach down and try to take the toy or bone from them? They growl and show you their teeth. Its their toy, they dont want you near it.

 

[KBF]

Thank you for the clarification regarding the "purchases". As I said earlier, it just took me by surprise to learn of ANY purchase of the marine life because that contradicted what I had always believed.

My assumption that Tilly is not happy is mainly made by the fact that Orcas are social creatures and I've heard several reports of aggressive type behavior. You are right though that no one can know for sure, only Tilly knows how he feels. I credit SW with doing everything in their power to both keep Tilly happy and the humans safe. The situation is what it is and release into the wild does not seem an appropriate choice. Let's face it, Tilly see's humans as a food source. I shudder to think if he was released into the wild and a whaling ship happened upon him......

It seems as if you also have a passion for wildlife and thank you for your open minded and informative post. I really enjoyed reading your response!

Not a problem. Alot of the stuff floating around is confusing. I find myself reading an article from a newspaper or an online source and having to re read it because it is confusing to understand. There is so much on this on the internet and in the news. And lets face it, anyone who writes this article is going to put their bias into it. Whether they support animals in captivity or not. So thats why its important to see both sides of the issue. Personally, I think the best way is to see for yourself and form your own opinion that way. I have been to Seaworld more times than I can count and upon seeing how these animals are loved and cared for on a daily basis, I formed the opinion. I think its ok for whales or dolphins or any animal of any species for that matter to be in the care of man as long as they are being treated with love and respect.

Of course pro Seaworld people are going to tell you one thing and anti Seaworld people are going to tell you something completely opposite and thats why its so hard to know for sure. Especially when Pro Seaworld people paint an image of Seaworld being heaven and the anti Seaworld people paint an image of Seaworld being a hell on Earth. Its just a matter of finding an unbiased opinion.

About releasing, I agree completely. When the whale from the movie "Free Willy" named "Kieko" was released a few years back, he constantly came around ships looking for human interaction. There are even reports that he came up to beach areas where people were swimming and was looking for human interaction. Kieko was a whale in which humans were in the water with him during and between movie shoots. The complete opposite of Tilly. Could you imagine if Tilly, being the possessive whale that he is, made his way to a beach where people were swimming and grabbed on to a beach goer? Or he got to close to a boat unfamiliar with his situation so you have random people trying to interact with him? Its a disaster waiting to happen. Like I've said before, I think the best place for Tilly is at Seaworld, where he has professionals caring and loving him daily.

 

[T16GEM]

Could you imagine if Tilly, being the possessive whale that he is, made his way to a beach where people were swimming and grabbed on to a beach goer? Or he got to close to a boat unfamiliar with his situation so you have random people trying to interact with him? Its a disaster waiting to happen. Like I've said before, I think the best place for Tilly is at Seaworld, where he has professionals caring and loving him daily.

Thanks for this, I hadn't actually thought of it from that angle before, I don't (and never have) thought that releasing Tilly was a good idea, based on how long he has been in captivity for, but it's amazing to think that they would try and get to humans for interaction if they are actually released into the wild. Definite accident waiting to happen.

I also wanted to say thanks for your previousl posts as they have been informative, and obviously you have a love for SW, but are willing to fairly share the FACTS in this case.

 

[AdventureLover67]

KBF-I did not know he kept Dawn in there for many hours after. As you stated, there is no need to get graphic as this is a family site but as I said in my previous post regarding toys and how Orcas play..........

There was a interesting story on Jane Goodall in one of the recent Reader's Digest. Even though her speciality is chimps it is an excellent article in general regarding this topic. Specifically it targets how at time human interference may seem horrible (they use the California Condors as a prime example) the final outcome can be of immeasurable benefit. If you think you'd like to know the issue, let me know and I'll find the magazine and give you the issue number. It points out the good and the bad from a conservationists (not an activists) point of view. She also states WHY she converted from an activist to a true conservationist.
Again, thank you for the information!

 

[KBF]

KBF-I did not know he kept Dawn in there for many hours after. As you stated, there is no need to get graphic as this is a family site but as I said in my previous post regarding toys and how Orcas play..........

There was a interesting story on Jane Goodall in one of the recent Reader's Digest. Even though her speciality is chimps it is an excellent article in general regarding this topic. Specifically it targets how at time human interference may seem horrible (they use the California Condors as a prime example) the final outcome can be of immeasurable benefit. If you think you'd like to know the issue, let me know and I'll find the magazine and give you the issue number. It points out the good and the bad from a conservationists (not an activists) point of view. She also states WHY she converted from an activist to a true conservationist.
Again, thank you for the information!

That would be an interesting article to read. And im sorry for the misunderstanding, the trainer he held around for hours after the incident was the female trainer that the two female whales killed in Canada back in the early 90s. Not Dawn.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

i'm so sorry about this situation.

i met a staff member at Acquatica on Thurs. and she was friends with the trainer who was killed. she said that the trainer was such a nice/fun person just like Tigger.

it is just a horrible situation all around. i believe she told me that the trainer was a whale trainer for 16 years. it was loud where we were talking so i might not have heard her correctly.

 

[KBF]

Thanks for this, I hadn't actually thought of it from that angle before, I don't (and never have) thought that releasing Tilly was a good idea, based on how long he has been in captivity for, but it's amazing to think that they would try and get to humans for interaction if they are actually released into the wild. Definite accident waiting to happen.

I also wanted to say thanks for your previousl posts as they have been informative, and obviously you have a love for SW, but are willing to fairly share the FACTS in this case.

Thanks for the kind words. I think there is alot of feuding between Pro Captivity and Anti Captivity people. If everyone from both sides could see all sides of the issue, could you imagine the good that people could do in the world? If Seaworld worked together with animal rights groups and animal rights groups put the captivity of animals behind them and worked with Seaworld, this world would be such a better place.

You know, im 95% against the Orginization PETA. I think alot of the stuff they do are for personal publicity and I think their assumptions about Seaworld are wrong, however I read that they launched an investigation into the mistreating of dogs and cats in a laboratory. There were some deplorable conditions and abuse of animals. And I think thats great that they put an end to that. Work for animals where there is a need. End animal suffering in labs and fighting rings stuff like that. Dont go after organizations like Seaworld who do good for animals and treat animals with respect, just because you think captivity is wrong. In many peoples eyes, it is. But when an animal is born in captivity and this life is all its ever known, how fair and ethical would it be to take them out of their home, their comfort zone and put them somewhere else.

Imagine you lived in your house your entire life and never left your house. You had people there taking care of you daily, when you needed food or medical attention. You had everything right there at your finger tips. And one day the people decided to throw you out in middle of a huge city. With nothing familiar to you at all. How stressful would that be to you? How stressful would it be on the animal you do it to? Its not fair to the animal to take away everything its ever known. And that part of the reason I support Seaworld. To go to Seaworld and see how its like a giant family. The whales that live together, the trainers that love and care for them. The way the whales go about their day enthusiastic about shows and trainer interations, it would be wrong to take that away from them. Again I said it before and ill say it again. As long as animals are treated with love and respect, and cared for like family because they are part of a family, then there is no reason why they shouldnt continue to live at Seaworld.

 

[KBF]

i'm so sorry about this situation.

i met a staff member at Acquatica on Thurs. and she was friends with the trainer who was killed. she said that the trainer was such a nice/fun person just like Tigger.

it is just a horrible situation all around. i believe she told me that the trainer was a whale trainer for 16 years. it was loud where we were talking so i might not have heard her correctly.

I knew the trainer as well and thats another reason I take this situation personally. She had worked at Seaworld since 1993.