tilikums' life today

[ILoveMyGirls]

none of them should be in captivity to begin with, this is the real issue.

Maybe not, but he's not fit to be released into the wild either.

 

[KBF]

none of them should be in captivity to begin with, this is the real issue.

Unfortunately, you cant change the past. Whats done is done. In a perfect world, these animals would not have been put in captivity forty years ago, but they were put there. And now their captive born offspring are part of Seaworlds family so the best thing to do is to love and care for them to the best of ones ability.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

i started crying as she spoke to me. it as if Dawn came alive hearing about her from someone who knew her. i am glad that i met this woman and that she told me about Dawn. i have a passion for all animals on land an in the sea. i don't know why this whale did this but it is a tragedy on many fronts. i'm sorry about the loss of your friend Dawn.

I knew the trainer as well and thats another reason I take this situation personally. She had worked at Seaworld since 1993.

 

[KBF]

i started crying as she spoke to me. it as if Dawn came alive hearing about her from someone who knew her. i am glad that i met this woman and that she told me about Dawn. i have a passion for all animals on land an in the sea. i don't know why this whale did this but it is a tragedy on many fronts. i'm sorry about the loss of your friend Dawn.

Thank You. Like Dawn, you have a love of animals and its obvious. Nobody can know for sure why Tilly did what he did. I offered a guess on the previous page. Its not fact obviously. Just my personal guess.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

This actually makes a lot of sense. I really don't think Tilly knew he was hurting her.

Tilly never has trainers in the water with him, even before the incident. The trainer, Dawn, was laying on a shallow ledge on the side of the pool. Killer whales are very inquisitive by nature and when her hair fell near his mouth, he may have thought it was a toy to play with. So he pulled on it. And she fell in. Now imagine you were Tilly, and finally, a trainer was in the water with you. You see the trainers getting in the water with the other whales and now this is your chance to play with a trainer too. So you start to push her around with your nose and hold her underwater. You dont know any better. But then alarms start going off and you can sense panic. And now people are trying to take your trainer away from you. You dont want that. You want to play with your trainer. (Tilly is a very possessive whale btw. It takes a long time for the trainers to retrieve his toys because he wants to keep them for himself. Kind of like a dog with a fresh bone or new toy). In the panic, you start to get angry and scared when the nets are deployed into the water to try and retrieve the trainer. At this point your not letting go and your taking your anger out on the trainer. And then, you know what happens next.

 

[KBF]

This actually makes a lot of sense. I really don't think Tilly knew he was hurting her.

Exactly. They dont know that humans cant hold their breath for as long as they can. Also about him being possessive, Like when a dog gets a new toy or bone they are happy, which I think Tilly was happy when Dawn was first in the water. He wanted to play. Like a dog. But then when the trainers tried to take Dawn away from him, he became angry. Like a dog who growls or shows his teeth when you try and take a toy or bone away from them. He has several documented cases of possessive behavior. Like another quote I posted from a former trainer who said that when Tilly was in the tank in Canada with the two other whales that killed the female trainer, Tilly eventually got ahold of the trainers dead body and wouldnt let go for hours because he thought it was something to play with, a new toy and he wasnt going to give it up.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

this is so sad, so very sad. i am sitting here crying.

if you looked at my siggy, you will see i have a trip report. we did go to discovery cove. i kept telling our dolphins that i loved them because i really do.

Exactly. They dont know that humans cant hold their breath for as long as they can. Also about him being possessive, Like when a dog gets a new toy or bone they are happy, which I think Tilly was happy when Dawn was first in the water. He wanted to play. Like a dog. But then when the trainers tried to take Dawn away from him, he became angry. Like a dog who growls or shows his teeth when you try and take a toy or bone away from them. He has several documented cases of possessive behavior. Like another quote I posted from a former trainer who said that when Tilly was in the tank in Canada with the two other whales that killed the female trainer, Tilly eventually got ahold of the trainers dead body and wouldnt let go for hours because he thought it was something to play with, a new toy and he wasnt going to give it up.

 

[KBF]

this is so sad, so very sad. i am sitting here crying.

if you looked at my siggy, you will see i have a trip report. we did go to discovery cove. i kept telling our dolphins that i loved them because i really do.

I actually did look at your trip report! I asked you a question on your "The Cove" thread. Its the most recent post. Ill ask here too though. I know you stated that this would be your last visit it Discovery Cove but it seems like you had a great time. Did it change your opinion any? Would you consider going back?

And sorry for making you cry.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

DC was a highlight of our trip. When I was with our dolphins I could not help feel bad for them as they are in captivity and were being made to entertain us by their training. Our dolphins were young and were not fully "trained" which made me wonder why are they here and why should they be trained as that is not what God put them on this earth to do.

It was interesting touching a dolphin, loving a dolphin while i could, and watching the expressions on my girls faces as i would not allow them in the room while i watched "The Cove" since we were getting ready to go to DC.

Tonight the series from that show was on, I think it is named "Blood Dolphin" not sure of the name but it is a spin off of "The Cove". My girls came in and I let them watch it and they cried and said "we just saw some just like that" meaning in captivity.

Given that the highlight of the day for the girls was swimming with the sting rays and feeding the birds, we "might" go back, I'm not sure at this point but my DH and kiddos want to go back. Maybe next time I won't be so swollen and will be able to experience the sting ray area and the bird area as I was too swollen to walk any longer so I had to sit and sweat but it was ok as I chatted and watched. Watched many things, a woman taking her young daughter's clothing off to let her urinate in the stingray water at the edge where the sand is (disgusting), I just sat there with my mouth hanging open.

For now, I don't know. Like you said they are in captivity now and that is where we are. Unfortunately, since I am hurt physically and am just a regular person and am not rich, I can't help the effort in freeing captive dolphins. I hope Seaworld is really taking good care of the dolphins and whales now that they are there, this is all I can hope for.

I actually did look at your trip report! I asked you a question on your "The Cove" thread. Its the most recent post. Ill ask here too though. I know you stated that this would be your last visit it Discovery Cove but it seems like you had a great time. Did it change your opinion any? Would you consider going back?

And sorry for making you cry.

 

[KBF]

DC was a highlight of our trip. When I was with our dolphins I could not help feel bad for them as they are in captivity and were being made to entertain us by their training. Our dolphins were young and were not fully "trained" which made me wonder why are they here and why should they be trained as that is not what God put them on this earth to do.

It was interesting touching a dolphin, loving a dolphin while i could, and watching the expressions on my girls faces as i would not allow them in the room while i watched "The Cove" since we were getting ready to go to DC.

Tonight the series from that show was on, I think it is named "Blood Dolphin" not sure of the name but it is a spin off of "The Cove". My girls came in and I let them watch it and they cried and said "we just saw some just like that" meaning in captivity.

Given that the highlight of the day for the girls was swimming with the sting rays and feeding the birds, we "might" go back, I'm not sure at this point but my DH and kiddos want to go back. Maybe next time I won't be so swollen and will be able to experience the sting ray area and the bird area as I was too swollen to walk any longer so I had to sit and sweat but it was ok as I chatted and watched. Watched many things, a woman taking her young daughter's clothing off to let her urinate in the stingray water at the edge where the sand is (disgusting), I just sat there with my mouth hanging open.

For now, I don't know. Like you said they are in captivity now and that is where we are. Unfortunately, since I am hurt physically and am just a regular person and am not rich, I can't help the effort in freeing captive dolphins. I hope Seaworld is really taking good care of the dolphins and whales now that they are there, this is all I can hope for.

I can assure you that Seaworld takes the upmost care of their animals. An example would be Tilly. The Marine park in Canada was going to kill him after he was with the two females that killed the trainer in the early 90s. Thats when Seaworld stepped in and rescued him. And now after this latest incident, never once has Seaworld stopped caring for or even considered killing Tilly. If you read back a few posts, a person commented that on her recent trip to Seaworld trainers where letting guests interact with Tilly in the underwater viewing area and the trainers were playing with him through the glass.

Another thing to understand is that Seaworld never forces their animals to perform in shows, whether it be at Seaworld or a Dolphin Interaction at Discovery Cove. If they choose not to perform or interact, thats is acceptable. They are still fed, loved and cared for regardless. Its their decision to do the show or interaction. No one makes them. Shows have been canceled before when the whales or dolphins choose to swim around instead of perform in the show. And like I said, thats ok. A performance in the show is called "An Enrichment Session" this is equivalent to taking your dog for a walk. Its something both physically and mentally stimulating for the animals and something they look forward to.

All animals are trained using something called "Positive Re enforcement" Which means they are rewarded for doing something good. Something bad is simply ignored. If something bad happens, like a wrong behavior, the trainer just re sends the hand signal to try again. 95% of the behaviors (Jumps) that the whales and dolphins perform in shows are things that are done naturally in the wild. For example, breaching or spy hopping. The 5% of behaviors that are not found in the wild would obviously be the trainers swimming with the whales. Which in the current show is not happening. So 100% of the show features natural behaviors.

What can we learn from these shows? Its not just about entertainment value, but it raises awareness and understanding about a great species. Whether it be a whale or dolphin. It shows people what intelligent and strong animals these are. It can show people something upclose that many people would not get a chance to see in the wild. It shows of the bond that humans can have with a Killer Whale or Dolphin. The killer whale was one of the most feared animals in North America years and years ago. But today, you can see the connection that a killer whale or dolphin can have with a human being. Displaying a friendship or family bond with the animal. Believe me when I tell you that all the trainers treat the animals as if they were their own children. They love those animals with all their heart. They share a love of all animals and the world we share just as you do.

I hope you do consider a re visit to Discovery Cove. And I hope that you are feeling better if you choose to do a return visit. Something to consider too, would be an animal interaction tour at Seaworld. So you could experience for yourself first hand the care and love Seaworld has for these animals. They take you behind the scenes to places normal guests dont get to see. Again, I think alot of people on this board share your love and concern for animals. I know I do. And I know the trainers and staff at Seaworld do too. It may or may not sway your opinion, but I hope it provides atleast some comfort to know that the animals are being taken care of and loved at Seaworld 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

thank you for trying to comfort my heart. i have cried a lot since we got home, i am not sure why. maybe it is about Dawn, the captive dolphins, the fact that i saved and saved and was able to take my girls given my condition and the trip was really great, i'm not sure why i am so down.

the staff at DC was wonderful. even when i could not get up from my seat when they were clearing the beach due to the thunder, two life guards came over and asked me if i needed help but i saw my DH coming back from the bird area with the girls and he helped me get up.

i've had so many horrible things occur to me in my life and thinking about Dawn, the whale, the dolphins, my kids who had a great time, maybe all that is just overwhelming and making me emotional.

I can assure you that Seaworld takes the upmost care of their animals. An example would be Tilly. The Marine park in Canada was going to kill him after he was with the two females that killed the trainer in the early 90s. Thats when Seaworld stepped in and rescued him. And now after this latest incident, never once has Seaworld stopped caring for or even considered killing Tilly. If you read back a few posts, a person commented that on her recent trip to Seaworld trainers where letting guests interact with Tilly in the underwater viewing area and the trainers were playing with him through the glass.

Another thing to understand is that Seaworld never forces their animals to perform in shows, whether it be at Seaworld or a Dolphin Interaction at Discovery Cove. If they choose not to perform or interact, thats is acceptable. They are still fed, loved and cared for regardless. Its their decision to do the show or interaction. No one makes them. Shows have been canceled before when the whales or dolphins choose to swim around instead of perform in the show. And like I said, thats ok. A performance in the show is called "An Enrichment Session" this is equivalent to taking your dog for a walk. Its something both physically and mentally stimulating for the animals and something they look forward to.

All animals are trained using something called "Positive Re enforcement" Which means they are rewarded for doing something good. Something bad is simply ignored. If something bad happens, like a wrong behavior, the trainer just re sends the hand signal to try again. 95% of the behaviors (Jumps) that the whales and dolphins perform in shows are things that are done naturally in the wild. For example, breaching or spy hopping. The 5% of behaviors that are not found in the wild would obviously be the trainers swimming with the whales. Which in the current show is not happening. So 100% of the show features natural behaviors.

What can we learn from these shows? Its not just about entertainment value, but it raises awareness and understanding about a great species. Whether it be a whale or dolphin. It shows people what intelligent and strong animals these are. It can show people something upclose that many people would not get a chance to see in the wild. It shows of the bond that humans can have with a Killer Whale or Dolphin. The killer whale was one of the most feared animals in North America years and years ago. But today, you can see the connection that a killer whale or dolphin can have with a human being. Displaying a friendship or family bond with the animal. Believe me when I tell you that all the trainers treat the animals as if they were their own children. They love those animals with all their heart. They share a love of all animals and the world we share just as you do.

I hope you do consider a re visit to Discovery Cove. And I hope that you are feeling better if you choose to do a return visit. Something to consider too, would be an animal interaction tour at Seaworld. So you could experience for yourself first hand the care and love Seaworld has for these animals. They take you behind the scenes to places normal guests dont get to see. Again, I think alot of people on this board share your love and concern for animals. I know I do. And I know the trainers and staff at Seaworld do too. It may or may not sway your opinion, but I hope it provides atleast some comfort to know that the animals are being taken care of and loved at Seaworld 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year.

 

[KBF]

thank you for trying to comfort my heart. i have cried a lot since we got home, i am not sure why. maybe it is about Dawn, the captive dolphins, the fact that i saved and saved and was able to take my girls given my condition and the trip was really great, i'm not sure why i am so down.

the staff at DC was wonderful. even when i could not get up from my seat when they were clearing the beach due to the thunder, two life guards came over and asked me if i needed help but i saw my DH coming back from the bird area with the girls and he helped me get up.

i've had so many horrible things occur to me in my life and thinking about Dawn, the whale, the dolphins, my kids who had a great time, maybe all that is just overwhelming and making me emotional.

Its tough to think about Dawn. Believe me as someone who knew her personally, the days following the tragedy were very hard. I know Dawn had a love for animals. And I know that she would not work at Seaworld if she saw any wrong doing to the creatures which she loved. Its hard to understand and it is sometimes for me too. But she is in a better place. Looking over all her loved ones and friends and the animals of this planet. She brought awareness of animals to millions of people in her 16+ years working at Seaworld and she will never be forgotten.

Im also so sorry to hear that you have had a rough life. I hope that things get better for you in the future.

 

[floridianer]

KBF said it right and wonderful (surely guess he has a lot of inside knowledge )

You don´t have to feel bad for the dolphins. Noone is forced to do anything. Sometimes they just don´t want to perform anymore and they swim into the back tank.
They simply send another one to your group and, guess what... At the gate where they let the dolphins into the cabana, the yactually WAIT to be picked and go out!
I really think that they have fun...

I really think that you are right, Ilovemygirls, these animals are made to be in the ocean and to be free. But unfortunatly a lot of them had to be rescued and that was what Seaworld did decades ago.
A lot of them are (or havent been) not able to be in the wild.
They tried with Keico (he died) and it is more than obvious, that many of the animals will not be able to hunt enough fish to survive (they never HAD to!)

And, as a sidenote. Those dolphins or whales, born in captivity don´t KNOW the wild. Why should they be happy to get there???

If you liked your day at DC or Seaworld, don´t think twice and go again.
They really care abut their animals!
No need to feel sorry

 

[julieannbabe]

Not a problem. Alot of the stuff floating around is confusing. I find myself whale that he is, made his way to a beach where people were swimming and grabbed on to a beach goer? Or he got to close to a boat unfamiliar with his situation so you have random people trying to interact with him? Its a disaster waiting to happen. Like I've said before, I think the best place for Tilly is at Seaworld, where he has professionals caring and loving him daily.

there has never been one report of a wild whale killing a 'beach goer'/person.

speaks volumes.

 

[julieannbabe]

The Marine park in Canada was going to kill him after he was with the two females that killed the trainer in the early 90s. Thats when Seaworld stepped in and rescued him.

seaworld bought tilly back in 1991 - if they were to 'rescue' him as you say - why didn't they put in back in the ocean in a sea pen and re-introduce to him the wild then?

also i see when people ask on here on is best to do whilst at seaworld - 100%of the time people recommend the performance shows.
what would you all recommend to see if there wasn't believe and the dolphins shows, dine with shamu, etc?
the answer is there wouldn't be a fraction of the visitors to seaworld if there wasn't the performance shows.

doesn't that send alarm bells ringing?

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

It certainly does.

doesn't that send alarm bells ringing?

 

[KBF]

there has never been one report of a wild whale killing a 'beach goer'/person.

speaks volumes.

Because How many people go swimming with them in the wild? Go swimming with a wild killer whale and see if you come out alive. This is 1 death in 40+ years of Seaworld working with Killer Whales. Yeah 1 is too many but its got to say something is being done right by Seaworld.

 

[KBF]

seaworld bought tilly back in 1991 - if they were to 'rescue' him as you say - why didn't they put in back in the ocean in a sea pen and re-introduce to him the wild then?

also i see when people ask on here on is best to do whilst at seaworld - 100%of the time people recommend the performance shows.
what would you all recommend to see if there wasn't believe and the dolphins shows, dine with shamu, etc?
the answer is there wouldn't be a fraction of the visitors to seaworld if there wasn't the performance shows.

doesn't that send alarm bells ringing?

Who knows if the shows would drop visitor ratings. It doesnt matter because Seaworld will continue their shows for a long time. Where people will be able to enjoy themselves and come watch the shows and see the connection these animals have with humans.

As for Tilly, I have no idea why Seaworld chose to keep him. I wasnt there when they made the decision back in the early 90s. He was probably deemed unreleasable.

 

[julieannbabe]

Who knows if the shows would drop visitor ratings. It doesnt matter because Seaworld will continue their shows for a long time. Where people will be able to enjoy themselves and come watch the shows and see the connection these animals have with humans.

As for Tilly, I have no idea why Seaworld chose to keep him. I wasnt there when they made the decision back in the early 90s. He was probably deemed unreleasable.

they choose to keep tilly for breeding purposes.

a wild whale won't much money as opposed to a performing whale will it?

 

[julieannbabe]

seaworlds' first line was that dawn slipped and fell. when that video that the family who went to the dine with shamu was aired on the news they had to change their story as it showed her lying on the edge on the pool.
that 'toy' line is nonsense.

how many times had she 'worked' with tilly - you guys probably know that answer more than me. hundreds if not thousands of times? how many performances did they do together a wk?
she had hugged tilly, rode him, fed him, etc

you guys say how intelligent whales are.

there is no way tilly thought she was a 'toy'. come on now. that whale knew what he was doing.

how many people would want to see a killer whale that had actually wanted to harm someone? it sounds alot 'nicer' if it is dressed up to look like an accident.

for those people who say that tilly isn't ignored since the attack - how would you feel if you had to walk pass a whale everyday who had killed your friend/co-worker? you wouldn't exactly be rushing over to give it hugs would you? at best he just gets ignored.

he rarely gets any human contact now - they used to brush his teeth up close - now it all done on an extension brush.
he must be a miserable as sin.

seaworld won't release the video of the attack- obviously it horrific for the family - poor woman , what an awful way to die. but the other reason is it will show how she was grabbed by the whale - if people saw that would some of them still would to be visit SW?
and that would cost SW $$$$$.