tilikums' life today

[julieannbabe]

It certainly does.

was you the lady who visited DC and felt very guilty about it?

don't do that to yourself.
you either visit DC and enjoy yourself or you don't go at all.

but don't go there and beat yourself up about it. that madness.
you worth much more than that.

make a decision - one way or another about visiting SW/DC. then stick to it - but don't fret about it xx

look at these poor dolphins in the far east- the numbskulls are cleaning out the tank with no water in it - leaving the dolphins lying on the bottom of it- even though i am anti captivity - these dolphins can only dream of living at seaworld:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JReD_aCzOio&feature=player_embedded#

when dolphins have no support from the water - the parts of there body they are leaning on get crushed and bruised.

what is the matter with these idiots? this marine park needs to be shut down ASAP.

 

[KBF]

they choose to keep tilly for breeding purposes.

a wild whale won't much money as opposed to a performing whale will it?

Im not going to argue the point of having whales in shows anymore. Ive made my point and all your going to do is comeback with this same line again.

seaworlds' first line was that dawn slipped and fell. when that video that the family who went to the dine with shamu was aired on the news they had to change their story as it showed her lying on the edge on the pool.
that 'toy' line is nonsense.

how many times had she 'worked' with tilly - you guys probably know that answer more than me. hundreds if not thousands of times? how many performances did they do together a wk?
she had hugged tilly, rode him, fed him, etc

you guys say how intelligent whales are.

there is no way tilly thought she was a 'toy'. come on now. that whale knew what he was doing.

how many people would want to see a killer whale that had actually wanted to harm someone? it sounds alot 'nicer' if it is dressed up to look like an accident.

for those people who say that tilly isn't ignored since the attack - how would you feel if you had to walk pass a whale everyday who had killed your friend/co-worker? you wouldn't exactly be rushing over to give it hugs would you? at best he just gets ignored.

he rarely gets any human contact now - they used to brush his teeth up close - now it all done on an extension brush.
he must be a miserable as sin.

seaworld won't release the video of the attack- obviously it horrific for the family - poor woman , what an awful way to die. but the other reason is it will show how she was grabbed by the whale - if people saw that would some of them still would to be visit SW?
and that would cost SW $$$$$.

There is no video of Tilly pulling her in. Just of her underwater. The last thing we see is her laying next to him with her hair close by. Tilly didnt do this to harm Dawn. It was an accident. But being anti captivity, you will try to spin it in a way that makes it sound as horrific as possible. And your wrong about him not getting any interaction. Again, refer to the post a few pages back where the mother took her kids to SW and the trainers were playing with Tilly through the glass. The trainers had the kid come up to the glass and interact with Tilly too. It may be hard on some people who work there who were close to Dawn, but I think most realize that this was an accident.

 

[julieannbabe]

Im not going to argue the point of having whales in shows anymore. Ive made my point and all your going to do is comeback with this same line again.



There is no video of Tilly pulling her in. Just of her underwater. The last thing we see is her laying next to him with her hair close by. Tilly didnt do this to harm Dawn. It was an accident. But being anti captivity, you will try to spin it in a way that makes it sound as horrific as possible. And your wrong about him not getting any interaction. Again, refer to the post a few pages back where the mother took her kids to SW and the trainers were playing with Tilly through the glass. The trainers had the kid come up to the glass and interact with Tilly too. It may be hard on some people who work there who were close to Dawn, but I think most realize that this was an accident.

there is a video captured on the cctv above and the underwater video camera. seaworld just won't release it.
you pro-captivity so you can try to put a spin on it to make it look like a accident.
see it works both ways.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

I agree with Seaworld in not releasing the video. Can you imagine being Dawn's mom/dad/brother/sister/children, having to watch her death over and over again as the media would have it on and on and on again.

There is a list of what happened in the video that has times listed by it based on that video, I read it the other night.

I don't believe he is pro-captivity, we are where we are in this captivity situation, releasing animals born in captivity would only cause their demise unless someone can figure out how to train them to survive if they are released.

there is a video captured on the cctv above and the underwater video camera. seaworld just won't release it.
you pro-captivity so you can try to put a spin on it to make it look like a accident.
see it works both ways.

 

[cmason]

there has never been one report of a wild whale killing a 'beach goer'/person.

speaks volumes.

Sorry Julieannbabe, but yes there has been attacks in the wild. Everyone can argue back and forth but in all reality there is no way Tilly can be released to the wild. If you want to fight for saving Orca's, then help Lolita who is in horrible conditions. It's funny how people enjoy going to seaworld and watching Believe, Shamu rocks and swimming with the dolphins, then 1 unfortunate tragedy and anti-caps are coming out of the woodwork. I do not believe in capturing Orca's from the wild, but that was 30 years ago, concentrate on the future. Orca's born in captivity can not survive in the wild because they have never been in the wild. Read the story below and you will see, now put Tilly in the water and when he is asking for human interaction and some clueless and fearless human interacts with him, he is gone. Then they will kill him because of the aggressive behavior. So he is best kept where he is.


Wild Orca Attacks on Humans & Other Incidents
Now the other misconception concerns the claim that outside of captivity that killer whales have not attacked humans, this is incorrect.

The first documented incident I came across was in, The Worst Journey in the World: Antarctic 1910–1913 which details an expedition in the early 1900s.

A group of orcas actually is breaking up the ice to get at a dog team and photographer standing on it. This was disconcerting to the group, but they survive and you can read the account online.

Now I didn’t get to do all the research I wanted, but did discover that there was a diver who was attacked up in Santa Cruz around July 22, 1969.

Here in California, I know of an orca incident that involved a surfer by the name of Hans Kretschmer who was bitten by a wild orca in 1972 up at Point Sur. He managed to get to shore but was left with 100 stitches and scars.

This incident was written up in 1975 (Snorf, Hughes, Takashi of Pacific Grove Marine Rescue Patrol in the Journal of Bone & Joint Surgery).

The paper was titled, Killer Whale Attack on Surfer: A Case Report and was also referenced in the San Francisco Examiner (11 September 1972, p 16. Report of probable killer whale attack.)

In my search for the Canadian diver that died after an orca incident in 1986 (which I could not substantiate), I found that apparently orca and diver incidents off the coast of Australia have been reported numerous times.

But probably the most recent headline was the Wild Killer Whale Incident (August 2005) that involved a boy in Alaska who was bumped by a killer whale but survived unscathed.

 

[julieannbabe]

thanks cmason for telling me that. even more reason not to get a tank with them.

i was thinking tilly isn't even a real life whale anymore is he?
seaworld and us have turned him into a commodity/product - there is a shamu character walking around sea-world, you can buy toys, posters, all sorts of merchandise - we have turned him into some mickey mouse figure.
where does it start and end between him being a real creature or some sort of face/product for SW?

We have all forgotten he is real. Except he is real.

thats the problem - SW, the trainers and us the paying public forgot along the way that these are real life whales.
when we forgot this basic fact then thats when bad things happen.

 

[ILoveMyGirls]

i'm not sure that most people don't think he is a real life whale, i certainly do and i care about him but there is nothing as i can do to help him. also, one of my friends used to be a trainer at seaworld and the trainers do care about their whales and dolphins. rem. they are not the ones that started this captivity thing that we are so upset about.

it is a bad situation that cannot be resolved easily. one that that can be done is for the UN not to let anyone capture dolphins or whales anylonger. i know that hunting whaltes is not allowed yet Japan continues to ignore this rule.

there is not an easy solution to any of this but we should not condemn those who are making an effort to correct it or to those such as trainers who treat the whales and dolphins with the utmost care now that they are captured.

thanks cmason for telling me that. even more reason not to get a tank with them.

i was thinking tilly isn't even a real life whale anymore is he?
seaworld and us have turned him into a commodity/product - there is a shamu character walking around sea-world, you can buy toys, posters, all sorts of merchandise - we have turned him into some mickey mouse figure.
where does it start and end between him being a real creature or some sort of face/product for SW?

We have all forgotten he is real. Except he is real.

thats the problem - SW, the trainers and us the paying public forgot along the way that these are real life whales.
when we forgot this basic fact then thats when bad things happen.

 

[AdventureLover67]

KBF-Sorry for the delay in response, I was out of town the last few days.

I've read all of the posts from the last few days and it always amazes me how we as humans "connect" with animals. Even though there are some differences of opinion the common thread is the fact everyone seems to agree that these creatures do indeed feel and truly care about the animals welfare.

The article in the Readers Digest is from the current issue that is in the stands now. Jane Goodall is such a fascinating woman in my opinion!

One thing I wanted to state is that we went to DC about 3 years ago and loved it. We did "swim with the dolphins" and Scarlett was our dolphin. She had been a performer at the SW shows but was now enjoying semi-retirement. She seemed to be happy and the interaction she had with the trainer was very touching. I personally enjoyed DC and have recommended it to everyone I know.

Since you seem to be well versed regarding SW (and it is relative to this discussion) could you confirm if SW got it's start as a rescue and then as the animal count grew for the non-releasables they started to show them to raise revenue for their care? It seems like I heard this before but may have it confuse with another organization.
Thanks!

 

[SandrA9810]

I love how because humans can express themselves we can forgive them for their actions.

Remember the kid killed in the monorail accident?? How many safety overrides did every one go through for it to happen?? What about the CMs standing on the platform with the kill switch?? They knew it was on the wrong beam. Ohh but we can forgive them because they can open their stupid mouth to say "sorry...". 1 fatal accident in 35 years of operations. Is human error forgivable if there's a promise to not do it again??

This whale caused an accident. No matter what his motives were, we won't ever know. But anti captivity activist can't seem to forgive this whale because he's an animal. Here we are 6 months later and still stuck on the same subject.

Get over yourself already, Sea World isn't going anywhere, and neither is Tilly. Why don't you go be an activist to get rid of stupid people of this world?? Who would be left standing??

 

[Dax]

Get over yourself already, Sea World isn't going anywhere, and neither is Tilly. Why don't you go be an activist to get rid of stupid people of this world?? Who would be left standing??

OK, I know it may be wrong of me to cheer you on this, but oh well...NICELY PUT!

 

[KBF]

KBF-Sorry for the delay in response, I was out of town the last few days.

I've read all of the posts from the last few days and it always amazes me how we as humans "connect" with animals. Even though there are some differences of opinion the common thread is the fact everyone seems to agree that these creatures do indeed feel and truly care about the animals welfare.

The article in the Readers Digest is from the current issue that is in the stands now. Jane Goodall is such a fascinating woman in my opinion!

One thing I wanted to state is that we went to DC about 3 years ago and loved it. We did "swim with the dolphins" and Scarlett was our dolphin. She had been a performer at the SW shows but was now enjoying semi-retirement. She seemed to be happy and the interaction she had with the trainer was very touching. I personally enjoyed DC and have recommended it to everyone I know.

Since you seem to be well versed regarding SW (and it is relative to this discussion) could you confirm if SW got it's start as a rescue and then as the animal count grew for the non-releasables they started to show them to raise revenue for their care? It seems like I heard this before but may have it confuse with another organization.
Thanks!

Its funny, Seaworld was started by 4 college guys back in the 1960s in San Diego. They originally meant for it to be an underwater restaurant featuring a mermaid show while you eat.

Well that plan fell through obviously and thats where the current parks came in. Seaworld San Diego was built in 1964 and featured a few Sealions and Dolphins. A ski show, a mermaid show and some costumed characters. The dolphins had come from other parks and the Sealions were rescued when they were found sick on California shore line. And yes, after a few years, they decided to start showing them to gain more revenue to care for and eventually release the releasable animals in to the wild. This came especially when the park in Orlando opened in the 1970s. Where the efforts to save the Florida Manatee came into play.

 

[AdventureLover67]

KBF-That is funny how it started. Guess no one can complain about captive "mermaids"!

I know that's how a lot of zoo's start, too. There is a small zoo by me and it got it's start by a wildlife rehabilatator who ended up with several non-releasables. As that number grew, so did the feed and medical care bills. They started to do some displays and charge admission and have since swapped with other zoo's who do the same. Seeing as you know SW and DC well you can imagine how many exotic birds there are available who people grow tired of or outlive them so there is a rather large display of those.

Even the rehab group I'm with (even though I don't actively rehab at this time) uses the friendlier, calmer animals as educational animals. It's amazing how the groups we work with respond. It also helps the animals be more "real" and we often use it to teach kids how they can be good stewards for the local wildlife. They are often fascinated by the little things they learn and get such a thrill being able to see these animals close up and personal. We also teach the basics of what to do if you find a injured or orphaned animal and dispel some common myths. The kids from the cities REALLY get into the programs!

Anyway, I know that's a bit off subject in a sense but thank you again for sharing the info!

 

[livndisney]

computer hiccup LOL

 

[Shamurocks]

Its funny, Seaworld was started by 4 college guys back in the 1960s in San Diego. They originally meant for it to be an underwater restaurant featuring a mermaid show while you eat.

That really made me laugh for some reason haha
I'd heard they planned an underwater restaurant but hadn't heard about the mermaid show

 

[SandrA9810]

There is a mermaid show over by Tampa. Silver springs or something. I remember seeing it as a little kid. And some time ago I saw a special on tv about how they select the mermaids. Very cute and still in operations. Something else to consider if any one is visiting Busch Gardens for the weekend.

 

[Dax]

There is a mermaid show over by Tampa. Silver springs or something. I remember seeing it as a little kid. And some time ago I saw a special on tv about how they select the mermaids. Very cute and still in operations. Something else to consider if any one is visiting Busch Gardens for the weekend.

Actually Silver Springs is about 1.5 hrs away from Tampa...it is more in Ocala..but still worth a visit, as it is one of FL first parks.

 

[SandrA9810]

Actually Silver Springs is about 1.5 hrs away from Tampa...it is more in Ocala..but still worth a visit, as it is one of FL first parks.

I'm glad to see it hasn't fallen into the wrong hands like Cypress Garden has. Although I am impressed with their splash park. Very fun.
I know Legoland has bought over it, it'll be fun to see what they do with it. I do love the Gardens, and they'll be leaving some of that alone.

 

[MellieluvsDisney]

Thank you KBF for all your insighful comments. I was at Sea World 2 weeks ago, and I think they take really good care of their animals and are well treated.

I remember going to Marineland in Ontario, Canada when I was 16 (in 1993) and seeing the killer whale show. Those poor orcas were stuck in small tanks back then. I never went back, I know it has changed, but I don't know how much. If someone can give me the information, which would really be appreciated.

No matter what we think, we cannot think for Tilly. It's a wild animal. But, one thing I do agree on is that we cannot send him back to the wild. That would be suicide. What Sea World can do, and I am sure this is what they are already doing, is take care of his needs both physically and emotionally.

There are animals in captivity everywhere. Even, our cats and dogs are in a somewhat “captivity”. In the near future, this will be the only way to be up close to a wild animal, as most animals in the wild are instinct or are going to become instinct.

I haven’t seen The Cove. But, my aunt who came with us on our vacation, watched it last Christmas, and she didn’t want to come to Sea World anymore. I told her that it’s not worst than animals at Animal Kingdom or the Zoo. And I also told her that Sea World takes good care of their animals and they do a lot of good. She came, and she liked it. She wasn’t the biggest fan of Believe, but she saw that their tanks are much bigger than most other sea aquariums.

To Juliannbabe: are you a vegetarian as well? Or do you wear fur or leather? Why are you on these boards? Why on a Sea World board? If you don’t like, then you shouldn’t come here. What about Animal Kingdom?

 

[julieannbabe]

Its funny, Seaworld was started by 4 college guys back in the 1960s in San Diego. They originally meant for it to be an underwater restaurant featuring a mermaid show while you eat.

Well that plan fell through obviously and thats where the current parks came in. Seaworld San Diego was built in 1964 and featured a few Sealions and Dolphins. A ski show, a mermaid show and some costumed characters. The dolphins had come from other parks and the Sealions were rescued when they were found sick on California shore line. And yes, after a few years, they decided to start showing them to gain more revenue to care for and eventually release the releasable animals in to the wild. This came especially when the park in Orlando opened in the 1970s. Where the efforts to save the Florida Manatee came into play.

you left out some of seaworlds' history: 'SeaWorld's attempt to capture several Orca in Puget Sound in the early 1970s using powerboats, airplanes and explosives to drive the animals resulted in the capture permit being revoked.'

 

[KBF]

you left out some of seaworlds' history: 'SeaWorld's attempt to capture several Orca in Puget Sound in the early 1970s using powerboats, airplanes and explosives to drive the animals resulted in the capture permit being revoked.'

Again, acceptable practices back in the day. I dont agree with what Seaworld did back in the late 60's early 70s as far as collecting Killer Whales from the wild. It wasnt just Seaworld, it was most marine aquariums. But we live and learn from the past. We learn from our mistakes. Seaworld today only has animals born into captivity or rescued from other marine parks. Their animals from the wild are only there because they are injured and once they are healthy to survive on their own, they are released.