New bib pick up procedures for rundisney races

[VAfamily1998]

The wristband idea is a very good one that would probably completely eliminate the reselling of bibs. Printing up the number of wristbands they need would probably cost very little.

I hope they don't do this. My wrist band for princess (to get the C2C) was annoying--kept getting caught on clothing, etc.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Wristbands don't prevent anything. They can be taken off and put back on.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Person X wants to target Run Disney event because of the impact it would have, so he buys a bib from Person A. He causes discontent, but when people investigate, they find that information belonging to Person A, not Person X. All Person X needs to do is work alone, use a prepaid card to buy it, and suddenly figuring out who Person X is takes that much longer. Insider access, virtual anonymity. Investigative nightmare. Not to mention huge liability as Persons J, K, L, M, N, O, and P are seriously injured by Person X at Disney event, the implied level of safety and security by Disney is not maintained, and now Disney has huge liability issue.

If Person X is apprehended, there may be momentary confusion as to who he or she really is, but that's of little concern in custody.

Besides this, unregistered runners can still purchase bibs. The new policy does not eliminate this; it only alters the process. Florida and California residents could easily see it worth their time to make a trip to the expo for pickup and hand delivery to recoup some or all of their $200+ entry fee. Likewise, those runners from out of state who maybe can't run due to injury -- who I imagine are the majority of resales versus scalpers -- but are locked in to travel plans for a vacation around the race can make arrangements to pickup and hand deliver the bib.

Sure, there is a deferral process, but a lot of runDisney runners are new to the sport and may question not recouping the money on the hope that they'll continue running a year from the time of that race. Or maybe they'd just prefer to have some % of their fee back rather than take the chance of something happening again.

Even from a personal standpoint... Person X buys Person A's bib, has a heart attack on course, is running alone... Disney doesn't begin to know who to contact. We assume that Person X fills out the contact info on the bib, but let's be honest... How likely is that? . . .And if Person X gets injured on the course and feels it's Disney's fault through negligence, Disney can't say "well, in your waiver..." because they never saw, much less filled out said waiver.

If somebody was injured through negligence, they could still sue even if they were the registered runner who had signed the waiver. And per my thinking above, this doesn't really stop it from happening; it merely alters the process by which it happens. I'd be curious if the bib resales didn't already happen a bit like that since it's a more transparent and bilateral transaction process.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Reducing what specific services are offered is not the same as cutting back on customer service. They are not mutually inclusive. This goes back to me saying that inconvenience does not equate to cutting back on customer service. This is not going to impact a large percentage of people. Disney telling people to start taking responsibility for their own packets is not Disney cutting back on customer service. It's them not holding everyone's hand anymore.

Perhaps this is semantics, or we're talking past one another. I'm speaking to service offerings as a part of customer service whereas it seems you may be looking at customer service from a quality perspective. I think they're still capable of providing a high quality of customer service in everything they continue to do; but in the elimination of a previous service offering, they've reduced the quantity of customer service they are providing.

Disney doesn't have to "hold your hand" on getting to their resorts with Magical Express either, but it's a service offering they provide to enhance the customer experience through convenience. Likewise with allowing friends and family to pickup packets for runners who otherwise couldn't be present during regular hours. Both are completely elective and the elimination of one doesn't mean it has any effect on the quality of customer service elsewhere. But it is does reduce their service offering to their customers.

To this point I'd never utilized the service, but I understand the appeal of a friend or family member who's already there saving you the trip or saving you from having to wait in a line on race day rather than get an extra hour of sleep or mingle with friends in the corrals.

ETA: Many people, including myself, have often thought that there are those who register for the sole purpose of reselling the bib. If anything, "reducing services offered" will actually provide customer service with an attempt to eliminate those resellers so people who legitimately want to run have a chance to actually register.

I'm skeptical of this as it's a niche market and the photo ID required already provided obstacles for anyone attempting to do this to sell more than one. Add to this the inherent risk of not being able to resell the bib, or at not enough premium to make it worth your while, and I just don't think there's this significant black market in runDisney bibs.

Anecdotally it seems like it's more runners who fail to train or get injured while training seeking to recoup their money. They can still do this. Florida and California residents can still go to the expo and carry out the transaction in person. Out of state participants who were already locked in to travel plans for a Disney vacation around the race can still do that, too. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the bib transfers already occurred in this manner as it provides more transactional transparency versus providing payment for a good you have yet to receive or providing a good for which you have yet to receive payment.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Wristbands don't prevent anything. They can be taken off and put back on.

I didn't receive a response, but I wrote runDisney after the Disneyland Half (Coast to Coast) about that. As it's volunteers who are checking these things and trying to keep people moving, there's the possibility for those who are motivated (whatever the reason) to exchange a band by simply cutting it off and putting it back together temporarily via staples, tape, or glue. Like with the reselling of bibs, I don't think it's a wide spread problem, but I thought there could be a way of approaching the verification process that didn't involve having to wear a piece of plastic on your wrist all day and night.

 

[minniebeth]

Curious how they will handle 5K packet pickups, where many families run together. Will all runners regardless of age need to be in attendance to pick up their bibs? It's not been made clear. And minors running the 1/2, need to be there in person? Anyone under that age of 16 or 17 will not have photo IDs. I just don't understand that implementation.

This notation is not up on the 2015 Marathon page yet. I'm glad I read it here. We are already registered for the 2015 events through a charity organization and I will need to alter my kids' travel plans so they can be there in person for their bibs.

 

[bumbershoot]

I know you are referring to a resort pickup but it made me wonder if the elimination of waivers and having others pick up bibs could be to simply funnel more traffic to the expo. I doubt it since it was packed for the Tinkerbell weekend but I honestly wouldn't be shocked if it all boiled down to the almighty dollar.

Why would they need MORE people going to the expo? And if they want more, they'd better get more of the good merchandise...

As a new runner, I totally agree. I want those medals. BAD. But I don't want them under false pretenses. The guilt I would feel for taking a medal when I didn't cross on my own power would be terrible. For me, the medal is such a significant symbol of a major accomplishment. But now I'm just being a sap.

Course, I don't think anyone without a time should be able to get an "I did it!" shirt either, and you can find those in the outlet stores sometimes.

You pretty much have to buy the "i did it" shirts before you've done it, though. So buying later at an outlet isn't much different.

 

[mking624]

Perhaps this is semantics, or we're talking past one another. I'm speaking to service offerings as a part of customer service whereas it seems you may be looking at customer service from a quality perspective. I think they're still capable of providing a high quality of customer service in everything they continue to do; but in the elimination of a previous service offering, they've reduced the quantity of customer service they are providing.

Disney doesn't have to "hold your hand" on getting to their resorts with Magical Express either, but it's a service offering they provide to enhance the customer experience through convenience. Likewise with allowing friends and family to pickup packets for runners who otherwise couldn't be present during regular hours. Both are completely elective and the elimination of one doesn't mean it has any effect on the quality of customer service elsewhere. But it is does reduce their service offering to their customers.

To this point I'd never utilized the service, but I understand the appeal of a friend or family member who's already there saving you the trip or saving you from having to wait in a line on race day rather than get an extra hour of sleep or mingle with friends in the corrals.



I'm skeptical of this as it's a niche market and the photo ID required already provided obstacles for anyone attempting to do this to sell more than one. Add to this the inherent risk of not being able to resell the bib, or at not enough premium to make it worth your while, and I just don't think there's this significant black market in runDisney bibs.

Anecdotally it seems like it's more runners who fail to train or get injured while training seeking to recoup their money. They can still do this. Florida and California residents can still go to the expo and carry out the transaction in person. Out of state participants who were already locked in to travel plans for a Disney vacation around the race can still do that, too. Really, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the bib transfers already occurred in this manner as it provides more transactional transparency versus providing payment for a good you have yet to receive or providing a good for which you have yet to receive payment.

I've already said that the number services offered and customer service are not mutually inclusive, yet you keep arguing otherwise. Obviously I can't change your line of thinking. As you don't think there's a significant black market for runDisney bibs that it would be a moot point, I don't think there is a significant number of people who have people picking up their packets that we need to have people complaining over and over about this or arguing about how it now affects customer service. And all that tells me is that customer service is not even close to an issue here. Because if not many people are utilizing this service, then not many people are being affected...which means in terms of quality AND quantity, claiming that Disney is cutting back on customer service is just a weak argument. But people love to throw it out there when they don't get what they want.

At this point I'm just going to have to nod and smile at anything else. My belief that "your race, your responsibility" remains firm. If people don't like how runDisney organizes their races, they are free to find a race that lines up with their perceptions.

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

Per runDisney, via telephone, the reason for the change was security (similar to Boston, their words, not mine), and there will be race pick up for people who absolutely cannot get there before that.

 

[mking624]

Per runDisney, via telephone, the reason for the change was security (similar to Boston, their words, not mine), and there will be race pick up for people who absolutely cannot get there before that.

And the fact they will be offering race day pick up completely negates the "cutting back on customer service" argument considering they are including a service to help those who can't make the expo for packet pick up.

 

[Castle2Castle]

Per runDisney, via telephone, the reason for the change was security (similar to Boston, their words, not mine), and there will be race pick up for people who absolutely cannot get there before that.

Apparently "security" is the raison d'être for everyone, despite any indication that it does anything of the sort. Expedition Everest remains exempt thus far, so maybe security needs more Yeti. . .

The idea of other races utilizing it to drive expo traffic for the vendors makes sense, and while runDisney seems to have the opposite traffic problem (too much), their vendors could be pushing for it here as well to ensure they get the maximum bang for the buck. As I understand there's not been much of an expo in the past for EEC, it could be an alternate explanation to the Yeti as far as the policy not being implemented there for "security" reasons.

And the fact they will be offering race day pick up completely negates the "cutting back on customer service" argument considering they are including a service to help those who can't make the expo for packet pick up.

Yeah, getting up earlier to get your bib, standing in line while others make their way to the corrals and having to go somewhere else for the remainder of your packet after the race is comparable to a friend or family picking it up beforehand while they're at the expo. It wouldn't be a cut back in service if Disney discontinued Magical Express either since you can just rent a car right there at the airport, too.

 

[Danhockey04]

Nothing says you have to run these races. If these changes, for the better, are not something you agree with, then find other races to run. Its their races, their policies. If they feel they want to enforce what is written, they have that right. This is the same reaction to when they starting enforcing the fastpass window return times. Their policies, they can choose to enforce them.

I don't agree this is security related, but to kill the secondary market. I am willing to go to the EXPO, get my own packet, wear a wristband or show an ID at a checkpoint, have a QR code on the bib to give the full name to the checker. Whatever it takes to kill the secondary market, it will help registration, preventing scalpers from buying in to just sell.

When you register, you agree to the non-refundable, non-transferrable terms, they don't have to have a deferral program. You agree that the registrant is the one to pick up the packet at the EXPO. They just were trying to accommodate people, but people abuse the system, and when that happens, it ruins it for all. So, either get over this change or move onto other races.

 

[bumbershoot]

Nothing says you have to run these races. If these changes, for the better, are not something you agree with, then find other races to run. Its their races, their policies. If they feel they want to enforce what is written, they have that right. This is the same reaction to when they starting enforcing the fastpass window return times. Their policies, they can choose to enforce them.

I don't agree this is security related, but to kill the secondary market. I am willing to go to the EXPO, get my own packet, wear a wristband or show an ID at a checkpoint, have a QR code on the bib to give the full name to the checker. Whatever it takes to kill the secondary market, it will help registration, preventing scalpers from buying in to just sell.

When you register, you agree to the non-refundable, non-transferrable terms, they don't have to have a deferral program. You agree that the registrant is the one to pick up the packet at the EXPO. They just were trying to accommodate people, but people abuse the system, and when that happens, it ruins it for all. So, either get over this change or move onto other races.

But I did NOT agree to some of those things for the Disneyland half or the wine and dine. They are changing things after non refundable registration. Part of the way I got my brother and best friend to run with me on those two (one for each race) was by telling them if they didn't want to get there that early (I'm going the first hours of the first expo day for both) that I can pick up their bibs. Thank goodness my brother is being cool about the extra drive between san diego and Anaheim, and my friend is going to travel with me so it's no actual skin off my nose. But philosophically it's just not nice of them to change things like that after a non-refundable registration.

It wasn't written before. It was the opposite. Fill out a waiver and someone can pick it up. Awesome. It's not at all like the FP window being enforced in preparation for FP+. It's new like MBs.

I agree it's not scurry because that makes no sense.

And there are other ways to change the bib selling thing. If only they would go into the business themselves! But they can't even afford to run their stuff through spellcheck let alone get a proofreader, so obviously they don't feel the money is there for a dedicated person to set up bib transfers directly through them. Man, I'd do that job just for commission. As long as I could do it from home since I don't live in orlando.

 

[Castle2Castle]

I don't agree this is security related, but to kill the secondary market. . .Whatever it takes to kill the secondary market, it will help registration, preventing scalpers from buying in to just sell.

How does this kill any supposed secondary market of pure scalpers? Any FL or CA scalpers can pick up bibs and then sell face to face. Entrants under 18 don't need to provide ID or be present, so such individuals could obtain multiple bibs in one trip.

I'm skeptical of any meaningful secondary market other than injured and under trained runners looking to recoup money instead of going through the deferral process. Even then, with the high cost of races, those runners in FL and CA have an incentive to pick up the bib and sell in person to recoup costs. Out of state runners with non-refundable travel plans for vacations around the event likewise can pick it up and sell in person. To the extent that runners have done this in the past I'd think most would prefer that form of transaction versus providing a stranger with their driver's license info and goods before payment (vice versa).

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

How does this kill any supposed secondary market of pure scalpers? Any FL or CA scalpers can pick up bibs and then sell face to face. Entrants under 18 don't need to provide ID or be present, so such individuals could obtain multiple bibs in one trip.

I'm skeptical of any meaningful secondary market other than injured and under trained runners looking to recoup money instead of going through the deferral process. Even then, with the high cost of races, those runners in FL and CA have an incentive to pick up the bib and sell in person to recoup costs. Out of state runners with non-refundable travel plans for vacations around the event likewise can pick it up and sell in person. To the extent that runners have done this in the past I'd think most would prefer that form of transaction versus providing a stranger with their driver's license info and goods before payment (vice versa).

As someone else said, if you don't like it, or don't get their policy, don't run their races. So easy.

 

[Castle2Castle]

As someone else said, if you don't like it, or don't get their policy, don't run their races. So easy.

Love it or leave it? 'Murrica! (. . .or whatever the Disney equivalent is)

I enjoy runDisney and am not put off in the least by the move. I'm just voicing my opinion on the move and pointing out how it seems unlikely to have any effect on security or putting an end to unregistered runners.

 

[bumbershoot]

As someone else said, if you don't like it, or don't get their policy, don't run their races. So easy.

Trying to figure out why discussion of a change isn't something you and others want to hear. On a discussion board.

We are allowed to disagree with a change, the WAY it's been made (that's my beef), and the nonsensical reason they are giving for it (I hate fake reasons).


As for not running their races...if they would let me have a refundable registration, it's possible I would do just that. But it's NON refundable. So I'm either out money and don't get the race or the bib or the medal, or I run it (and when I say "it" I mean the TWO rundisney races I signed up for, whose rules have NOW changed) and think long and hard about future rundisney events.

Not that big of a deal if I'm going solo. But especially if I'm running with someone else who isn't so enthused about Disney or perhaps has more obligations at home. Because if I can't pick up their bibs, it makes it harder on them.


But to tell me to just not run something I've already spent $400+ on, yeah, no, that's not happening. I can be less-than-positive about the way they are doing this, though, all I choose to be.

 

[FFigawi]

Per runDisney, via telephone, the reason for the change was security (similar to Boston, their words, not mine), and there will be race pick up for people who absolutely cannot get there before that.

Like having each runner pick up their own bib would have had any impact at all on what happened in Boston. I hate it when companies use security as a blanket excuse and cover for whatever their true rationale is. So much easier for them to cry security than actually explain what they're doing.

 

[mking624]

Trying to figure out why discussion of a change isn't something you and others want to hear. On a discussion board.

We are allowed to disagree with a change, the WAY it's been made (that's my beef), and the nonsensical reason they are giving for it (I hate fake reasons).


As for not running their races...if they would let me have a refundable registration, it's possible I would do just that. But it's NON refundable. So I'm either out money and don't get the race or the bib or the medal, or I run it (and when I say "it" I mean the TWO rundisney races I signed up for, whose rules have NOW changed) and think long and hard about future rundisney events.

Not that big of a deal if I'm going solo. But especially if I'm running with someone else who isn't so enthused about Disney or perhaps has more obligations at home. Because if I can't pick up their bibs, it makes it harder on them.


But to tell me to just not run something I've already spent $400+ on, yeah, no, that's not happening. I can be less-than-positive about the way they are doing this, though, all I choose to be.

I can understand being frustrated about a change that takes place AFTER you've already registered. I do think Disney should have started implementing this policy with races that have registrations yet to be opened.

Any race you haven't registered for is another story, though. That's when I think that if you don't like the way a company organizes their races, then you are free to find another race that better matches with your idea of how a race should be organized. It makes absolutely no sense to hear one complaint after another about anything you ("you" in general) aren't required to participate in. If I really didn't agree with a policy, then why would I go out of my way to financially support it?

 

[roomthreeseventeen]

EEEEK. OK, now I take back what I said. Apparently, rD is contacting people by e-mail saying there will be NO race day packet pick up.