And so it begins, the dreaded Christmas drama : (

[Hikergirl]

OP, in your first post you said you "heard rumors" that ds1 and wife were going to Reno for Thanksgiving. It sounds like you knew before Thanksgiving, who told you those "rumors"? Saying it like that comes across like your ds or DIL didn't tell you themselves, it sounds like there was some gossip among you and your other kids about it.
If it was your other kids, why didn't they call their father and ask what was going on for Thanksgiving?
If it was from your ds and DIL, it really isn't their place to invite someone (even siblings) 2 hours away to a home that isn't theirs.
I can understand you and your kids thinking your ex is a crappy dad for not extending an invite, but I don't get any hostility towards the ds and DIL that went because they were invited.

 

[dish rag]

It would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

 

[Skellingtonj]

It would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

True. I’m sure it would be vastly different from this version

 

[Hrhpd]

Well, as the mother of kids who get left out, I can tell you that your older son comes off as a kind of a jerk for making it about him and not understanding why all of the kids should've been invited. You just don't invite half of your kids. Your ex and his new wife are jerks, too. Kids should NOT have to call and beg to be invited for the holidays especially when half the kids are already going.

First of all, are your children adults that can work on their own relationships with their father?

Also, how is the older son a jerk? He was invited with his wife, who has become good friends with Dad's wife, to a Thanksgiving dinner. And you think it is good manners for a guest to invite several other people to somebody else's Thanksgiving celebration? Just because the host is the father and step-mother, it does not make the children any less of guests in their home. You have no idea if the son suggested that perhaps the siblings should be invited. Should the oldest son destroy his good relationship with his father just because his siblings do not have a good relationship with him? It sounds like the oldest son is making an effort at a relationship. We don't know if the other children are making an equal effort.

You might want to explore whether you are projecting a bit before definitively determining that strangers who have a relationship with an ex are jerks.

edited to add a question mark. My grammar teacher would be horrified.

 

[Hrhpd]

It would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

The truth is always somewhere in the middle.

 

[Hrhpd]

It’s certainly possible that the OPs kids are just comparing and looking for reasons for drama, but it seems to me more that they don’t feel welcomed or loved by their dad and that’s why they’re hurt by these little things.

It is possible the father also doesn't feel welcomed or appreciated by the children based on the OP's statement that he says "they know where I live."

There also seems to be a HUGE amount of animosity towards the ex, his current wife, and "the mistress." Children pick up on those vibes very easily. I wonder how much guilt there is with the children thinking they have to choose one or the other parent for the Mom's sake. Or they just gripe to her because they know that is what she wants to hear because they know she hates him so much.

 

[dish rag]

It is possible the father also doesn't feel welcomed or appreciated by the children based on the OP's statement that he says "they know where I live."

There also seems to be a HUGE amount of animosity towards the ex, his current wife, and "the mistress." Children pick up on those vibes very easily. I wonder how much guilt there is with the children thinking they have to choose one or the other parent for the Mom's sake. Or they just gripe to her because they know that is what she wants to hear because they know she hates him so much.

Exactly

 

[luvsJack]

It’s very different when you know you are welcome any time at a parent’s house and feeling you have to be invited.

Most kids, adults or not, feel welcome any time for anything. But when there has been a break in the relationship, as there has been here, they no longer feel that.

The ex is their father and if he would let any thing come between him and his kids; then that’s on him. He didn’t have a relationship with them for 20 years. He is going to have to do better to have one now.

I may be wrong, but I think the mention of the video games was saying that’s why he didn’t want to go camping. My yds would t want to go camping either. Ods would love it.

Now, I do think they should reach out to him. But he can’t just sit and say “they know where I live” either. It’s all a two way street. Someone that didn’t have a relationship with his kids for 20 years, gets no pass from me. He needs to put in the biggest effort.

Op, all you can do is stay out of it and let it fall where it may. You can’t make anyone do anything. If your kids talk to you about it, tell them to call their dad. That is the only way it will be solved. If he doesn’t give any effort back, they will soon decide the effort isn’t worth it.

 

[cabanafrau]

What does your daughter buying annual passes have to do with anything?? Why are you posting all of their personal info?? I’d be mad as hell if my mom did this to me. I never post my families personal info

This stood out like a giant, bitter, petty, sore thumb to me. No way this attitude doesn't shine through. Won't be hard to figure out the source of the poison in this relationship.

MYOB requires that one actually minds their own business. Until that lesson is truly learned and practiced it's just rinse and repeat.

Anger and bitterness are actually toxic to the vessel holding them.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This stood out like a giant, bitter, petty, sore thumb to me. No way this attitude doesn't shine through. Won't be hard to figure out the source of the poison in this relationship.

MYOB requires that one actually minds their own business. Until that lesson is truly learned and practiced it's just rinse and repeat.

Anger and bitterness are actually toxic to the vessel holding them.

Agreed to the bolded. I read that part about the APs and the several trips and thought at first maybe the "poor her" was in a joking manner but no it really sounded mean the more I thought about it and read the remaining part of the post.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Truly this sounds like a parent way overly involved in the adult kids lives. Now maybe having a daughter who needs tons of intensive care makes it difficult to distinguish between it all but adult children don't normally need a busybody (no matter how well intentioned that busybody thinks they are being) in their lives especially ones trying to fight the fight without having the full picture (meaning being privy to the conversations and interactions with all the parties involved) and being completely and utterly biased. I don't say biased in necessarily a bad way but there's just no way the OP can be impartial. You can tell in the OP, along with other poster's comments regarding past threads, that the OP holds onto a lot of past and lets it bleed into the present.

My husband's relationship with his father is different than his father's relationship with my husband's sister. My husband's relationship with his mother is different than his mother's relationship with my husband's sister. Father invites sister to things that he doesn't invite my husband to. Mother invites my husband to things that she doesn't invite my husband's sister to. The dynamic has been different for a long long time.

Respectfully, please OP just let it be. This really seems like a situation where the 'dreaded Christmas drama' is being artifically created or at the very least you are not the correct person in this specific situation to be discussing this as you are not really involved in the 'drama'.

 

[Skellingtonj]

Agreed to the bolded. I read that part about the APs and the several trips and thought at first maybe the "poor her" was in a joking manner but no it really sounded mean the more I thought about it and read the remaining part of the post.

Oh lord the “oh poor her” part burned me up. She sounds jealous. And I’m glad I’m not alone in my thinking.

 

[luvsJack]

Truly this sounds like a parent way overly involved in the adult kids lives. Now maybe having a daughter who needs tons of intensive care makes it difficult to distinguish between it all but adult children don't normally need a busybody (no matter how well intentioned that busybody thinks they are being) in their lives especially ones trying to fight the fight without having the full picture (meaning being privy to the conversations and interactions with all the parties involved) and being completely and utterly biased. I don't say biased in necessarily a bad way but there's just no way the OP can be impartial. You can tell in the OP, along with other poster's comments regarding past threads, that the OP holds onto a lot of past and lets it bleed into the present.

My husband's relationship with his father is different than his father's relationship with my husband's sister. My husband's relationship with his mother is different than his mother's relationship with my husband's sister. Father invites sister to things that he doesn't invite my husband to. Mother invites my husband to things that she doesn't invite my husband's sister to. The dynamic has been different for a long long time.

Respectfully, please OP just let it be. This really seems like a situation where the 'dreaded Christmas drama' is being artifically created or at the very least you are not the correct person in this specific situation to be discussing this as you are not really involved in the 'drama'.

Its not really fair to call the OP "overly involved" because she knows about the interactions between them all when her kids may have come to her with it. My kids come to me. I went to my Mom with stuff. Its just being family. Doesn't mean I do anything when my kids vent to me or that my mother did either. Doesn't sound like the OP has either. Actually didn't she just ask how others would feel in her kids' shoes?

She doesn't need to do anything except perhaps tell her kids to contact their dad, this I whole heartedly agree with.

Are your husband's parents still married? Have they been a part of his life for all of his life?

That makes a huge difference. I spend time with all of my kids separately at times. But its not like I am choosing one over the other or that I am not going to see the other two in a week or so. But when a parent hasn't had much to do with their kids for most of the kids' lives and suddenly he wants to spend time with ONE kid; it is hurtful to the others. That's not artificially created drama. That's a father possibly being an insensitive jerk.

I see my sil's sister go through this all the time with their mother. She chooses sil over his sister. And its painful to her. Its not just drama she creates.

The Op has some issues with the ex, that's apparent. And she seems to resent others going and doing things in life that she cannot do or cannot afford to do. She needs to work through that and not blame her kids or her ex or her other family for these things. But her dd is paralyzed and needs a lot of care and this man that everyone is almost defending isn't doing anything to help from the sounds of it. I think she has every right in the world to be a little biased toward him.

 

[cabanafrau]

People can have very justified reasons to be angry or resentful with someone. It's beyond unhelpful to hang onto it, carry it around for years and wallow in it to the point where the only impact is to the one who's angry and resentful. It's even more dangerous when someone becomes so accustomed to that daily dose of poison that they allow the effects to bleed into all of their other relationships and continue to believe the fault lies with everyone else.

 

[TheIncredibles!]

They're adults and are now 50% responsible for their relationship with their father. Do they visit HIM? Do they invite HIM to their houses? Your oldest has obviously made more of an effort to have a relationship with his father and should not be made to feel bad about that at all. These are grown *** people here not kids. If the two youngest are feeling left out then they need to buck up and figure out why their brother is closer to their dad and see what they can do to try and have a better relationship themselves.

Your opinion is biased for obvious and understandable reasons but your opinion of this man stopped mattering a long time ago. Let it go.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Its not really fair to call the OP "overly involved" because she knows about the interactions between them all when her kids may have come to her with it. My kids come to me. I went to my Mom with stuff. Its just being family. Doesn't mean I do anything when my kids vent to me or that my mother did either. Doesn't sound like the OP has either. Actually didn't she just ask how others would feel in her kids' shoes?

Yup it's totally fair. Being a shoulder to cry on is different than what the OP sounds like she's doing. And add to that being a people pleaser. Enough people have said to stay out of it, let it be, let it go. Seems fairly clear that the OP is overly involved in the intricacies in the adult children's lives.

Are your husband's parents still married? Have they been a part of his life for all of his life?

That makes a huge difference.

1) No they've been divorced forever and both remarried. My husband calls his stepfather dad as well. He also has a half-sister from his mom's marriage to his stepfather

2) Yup

3) Nope it doesn't make a huge difference in this context. You're really missing the point in my comments. In the OP the OP makes it a point to drive home the point that some of the kids weren't invited. She then goes onto to discuss a bit of the relationship with the children. Not every relationship, especially as you grow into an adult and into your adult life, is the same between siblings and their parents. Not inviting all 4 adult children doesn't equal a travesty maybe even moreso given that the father didn't see the children much until they were adults and from the comment "He says if they want to see him, they know where he lives." sounds like it's a two-way street at least nowadays.

In the real world not every parent shares the exact same interests and bond and relationship with each of their children and in the real world not every child shares the exact same interests and bond and relationship with each of their parent. And in the real world not every sibling shares the same interests. Parents try to be as equal as possible generally speaking but it doesn't mean everyone is going to have the exact same relationship. Sometimes you just aren't going to be invited and sometimes you'll be the one invited when someone else isn't.

Sounds like the bond forged by the eldest son and the father is strongest at least right now. Don't get me wrong I've got empathy for the whole bit but if I were hearing from one of the adult kids it would be more helpful.

But her dd is paralyzed and needs a lot of care and this man that everyone is almost defending isn't doing anything to help from the sounds of it. I think she has every right in the world to be a little biased toward him.

Again you're really missing the point. I did say "I don't say biased in necessarily a bad way". If one of the adult children were writing the OP it would be a lot different. Here the very situation being described is inheritantly biased and more so than normal based on the OP's history with the father and various facts. The OP also appears to hold on quite strong to these past issues/incidents/variables; makes it quite hard to get a less colored viewpoint.

 

[VandVsmama]

My additional thoughts in no particular order:

1. So you & exH divorced 22 years ago.
2. Would I as a sibling be hurt that I wasn't invited? Probably yes. But the person that the sibling needs to take that issue up with is the dad. If the track record/history is that one complains loudly to everybody else but the person one is angry with, then that's not a very positive way of trying to resolve one's problems. It's kind of a passive-aggressive way of handling it because you yourself end up getting recruited to be a flying monkey by calling the exH to ask him why he didn't invite the other kids to Thanksgiving. You did not get involved in this situation in that way, but I'm just saying the above as an example to demonstrate my point.
3. Would I feel awkward that my sister & brother weren't invited? Well, in MY family , yes, I'd feel awkward. However, this isn't my family, it's yours. so my actual answer is "it depends." It depends on how the siblings get along. It depends on if some siblings are kind of known for stirring the pot and bringing up drama. There's nothing wrong w/a kid wanting to reconnect with a parent who he/she might have felt alienated from in the past.
4. Your exH, at first glance, is kind of a butthead for stopping to see 1 kid, but not doing the same with other 2 kids. Clearly, there's more to this situation than is conveyed here in this thread. There is probably a history between exH and the other 2 siblings...some resentments on all 3 sides there which are preventing people from being able to move forward.
5. I also know from my own experience that sometimes when some parents get older, they can sometimes develop a sense of entitlement. Like, "Well, I'm old now and I deserve to have you come visit me. I don't feel like going anywhere. You know where I live, so if you want to see me, you need to come pay homage to me because that's what I did with your grandparents, even though I hated doing it at the time."
6. There are plenty of reasons why someone might not go to somebody else's house for a holiday. So there could be a logical reason for all of this.
7. If the siblings who were excluded do not WANT to be excluded anymore, then 1 of THEM should take a turn to host EVERYONE for a holiday meal. They're adults and can start acting like adults and they can quit whining and do something about it. Or they can choose to play the pity party card.
8. On the other hand, if their dad is such a jerk, then why in the world would they want to spend Thanksgiving there anyway?
9. The 1 sibling who got Disney AP's...that's irrelevant. That adult child of yours is welcome to spend her/his hard-earned time and money however he/she wants. He/she has earned that right to live his/her life as they see fit. There's nothing wrong with choosing to spend time over a holiday with your immediate family only...especially when there is stupid jealousy drama like this over who was/was not invited to Daddy's for Thanksgiving. Given some of the stuff going on between your kids AND between them and their dad, it's no wonder that 1 of your kids wanted to step away from all of the drama for a bit.

 

[Forevermarypoppins]

You're right to stay out of it, best you can.

Reminds me though of a very good friend. She is the 2nd wife. She herself was married twice before so #3 for her. She calls the shots on everything!! As far as In-laws she decides who gets to stop over and when. I might incline to say the new wife here does the same. She has made a friend with DIL, that there explains some.

 

[luvsJack]

Yup it's totally fair. Being a shoulder to cry on is different than what the OP sounds like she's doing. And add to that being a people pleaser. Enough people have said to stay out of it, let it be, let it go. Seems fairly clear that the OP is overly involved in the intricacies in the adult children's lives.

She clearly says that she told her oldest son to leave her out of it. She never says in the OP (has she even posted again?) that she DID anything or even gave an opinion to her kids. Two talked to her about being upset. One talked to her about being upset that they were upset. She said "work it out, leave me out of it". Where does that say over involvement to you?

Yes, everyone here just about has said "stay out of it". Where has she indicated that she had done or plans to do other wise?.




1) No they've been divorced forever and both remarried. My husband calls his stepfather dad as well. He also has a half-sister from his mom's marriage to his stepfather

2) Yup

3) Nope it doesn't make a huge difference in this context. You're really missing the point in my comments. In the OP the OP makes it a point to drive home the point that some of the kids weren't invited. She then goes onto to discuss a bit of the relationship with the children. Not every relationship, especially as you grow into an adult and into your adult life, is the same between siblings and their parents. Not inviting all 4 adult children doesn't equal a travesty maybe even moreso given that the father didn't see the children much until they were adults and from the comment "He says if they want to see him, they know where he lives." sounds like it's a two-way street at least nowadays.

If a parent chooses not to have a relationship with his kids for 20 years, to have one now is on him. And yes, it is VERY different from your husband's situation. Unless you have seen it first hand or been in the situation, you may not understand it but it is very different. Its a far cry from a healthy parent/adult child relationship.


In the real world not every parent shares the exact same interests and bond and relationship with each of their children and in the real world not every child shares the exact same interests and bond and relationship with each of their parent. And in the real world not every sibling shares the same interests. Parents try to be as equal as possible generally speaking but it doesn't mean everyone is going to have the exact same relationship. Sometimes you just aren't going to be invited and sometimes you'll be the one invited when someone else isn't.

No, of course every child and every parent doesn't have the same interests. But as a parent you don't decide to pick and choose which child to "bond with". That is selfish and hurtful to your children. "Parents try to be as equal as possible" but Dad isn't doing that nor has he ever apparently. Besides, Thanksgiving dinner doesn't really have a whole lot to do with shared interests. Its supposed to be about family. I have three kids all with different likes, dislikes, beliefs, interests, etc. And yet, I find a way to interact with all three. Its not hard, you love them, they are your children; you just do it. Heck, even the father of my sons can find a way to do that and he isn't around more often than he is!

Sounds like the bond forged by the eldest son and the father is strongest at least right now. Don't get me wrong I've got empathy for the whole bit but if I were hearing from one of the adult kids it would be more helpful.


Again you're really missing the point. I did say "I don't say biased in necessarily a bad way". If one of the adult children were writing the OP it would be a lot different. Here the very situation being described is inheritantly biased and more so than normal based on the OP's history with the father and various facts. The OP also appears to hold on quite strong to these past issues/incidents/variables; makes it quite hard to get a less colored viewpoint.

The OP needs to work through her anger and resentment. Its not healthy for her. I agree. But I also understand it. From the sounds of it he has given her a lot to be angry about and to resent about him. But for HER, she needs to let it go. But from her OP (and I haven't seen any other posts in this thread), it does sound like she has learned to co-exist with her ex, which is a good thing.

If you read it, also, it sounds like perhaps this not including some of the kids is a new thing. She says she has learned to be ok with not having the kids on a holiday so it seems that they have all spent the day with their dad previously. She assumed they were all going. So the fact that perhaps this not inviting some of the kids came out of left field could explain the kids being upset about it. And would also make me wonder why he is being hurtful to his kids.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

The OP needs to work through her anger and resentment. Its not healthy for her. I agree. But I also understand it. From the sounds of it he has given her a lot to be angry about and to resent about him. But for HER, she needs to let it go. But from her OP (and I haven't seen any other posts in this thread), it does sound like she has learned to co-exist with her ex, which is a good thing.

If you read it, also, it sounds like perhaps this not including some of the kids is a new thing. She says she has learned to be ok with not having the kids on a holiday so it seems that they have all spent the day with their dad previously. She assumed they were all going. So the fact that perhaps this not inviting some of the kids came out of left field could explain the kids being upset about it. And would also make me wonder why he is being hurtful to his kids.

You know I'll be honest I skimmed your response to me (and honestly apologies on that ) moreso because at the end of the day the OP needs to stay out of it all. She doesn't want to be in the middle of it all according to her OP but from her questions she asks and the information given she's inserting herself in the middle.

There's a difference in wanting to be supportive of your adult children, empathizing with how they feel and yet keeping yourself out of the drama and this drama isn't even hers to begin with. This whole mess concerns nothing of the OP. The only thing connecting her is the sole fact that it's her children but everything else is her ex-husband and his family dynamics.

I think you and I agree on some things and don't agree on others which is totally fine