Everything I knew about myself has been broke

[dish rag]

Yeah, I really don't think we're the same either. Which is why I choke on all the comments I see these days claiming that they are.

Regardless of how we see the world though, both should be shouldering the responsibility of taking care of what needs to be done at home. OP should not be the one making him do his share. That said, they've worked their way into a bad pattern at this point and it will likely require some of that to get out of it. I just don't thinks she should be so fast to take the blame. And I don't think he should have been so fast to assign the blame on her.

That's what they do, guys like him. They assign blame.

 

[mjkacmom]

OP - I'm sorry you are going thru this. The speed at which you internalized what he said and are now blaming yourself is a concern to me. If it is at all possible I would recommend counseling.

As for men not being mind readers, I consider that excuse to mainly be a copout. Of course, everyone needs to be direct with expressing what their needs are. But why is it acceptable for the default male position to be "i'm not gonna do anything unless my wife specifically tells me directly that she needs me to do it". I feel like we have such an easy time blaming the wife for taking control or "not expressing her needs" and never look at the husband and ask why he isn't paying better attention. Why isn't he offering to help or step in? Why is his laziness being accepted? He has eyes, he can look and see that laundry needs to be done or the floor washed or the dishes put away the same as the wife can, and he should be expected to help out when he sees that something needs to be done, not only when his wife specifically says "can you wash the floor."

Not all do. My husband does not notice a dirty floor or dishes in the sink, a full garbage can or dust. I’m the opposite, these things make me uncomfortable. Now, if he was complaining that I’m not cleaning these things, that would be a problem, but he never has. We are just wired differently.

 

[mousefan73]

Yeah, I really don't think we're the same either. Which is why I choke on all the comments I see these days claiming that they are.

Regardless of how we see the world though, both should be shouldering the responsibility of taking care of what needs to be done at home. OP should not be the one making him do his share. That said, they've worked their way into a bad pattern at this point and it will likely require some of that to get out of it. I just don't thinks she should be so fast to take the blame. And I don't think he should have been so fast to assign the blame on her.

Just assuming, but it could be the DH does think he is taking care of things at home, if he is basing his responsibilities on "traditional" male roles.. He works ( but so does she).. but maybe in his eyes, getting the oil changes, mowing once a week, doing taxes etc... is doing his share, but traditional woman roles such as cookiing, cleaning, laundry, organizing household things is her role.... IMO, these take of more time..

My current situation at home for example... I usually have the overview of what the kids's schedule is.... They both joined a band and OMG the emails I get on practice and concerts is driving me nuts.. Sooooo I decided.. DH is now in charge of ALL band things..... I gave them his email ,,, he he..

 

[mom2rtk]

Not all do. My husband does not notice a dirty floor or dishes in the sink, a full garbage can or dust. I’m the opposite, these things make me uncomfortable. Now, if he was complaining that I’m not cleaning these things, that would be a problem, but he never has. We are just wired differently.

In all fairness though, your balance is a little different from the OP. Aren't you a stay at home mom? The OP works full time outside the home and I think that changes how things need to be balanced at home.

Just assuming, but it could be the DH does think he is taking care of things at home, if he is basing his responsibilities on "traditional" male roles.. He works ( but so does she).. but maybe in his eyes, getting the oil changes, mowing once a week, doing taxes etc... is doing his share, but traditional woman roles such as cookiing, cleaning, laundry, organizing household things is her role.... IMO, these take of more time..

My current situation at home for example... I usually have the overview of what the kids's schedule is.... They both joined a band and OMG the emails I get on practice and concerts is driving me nuts.. Sooooo I decided.. DH is now in charge of ALL band things..... I gave them his email ,,, he he..

If he's viewing it as "traditional gender roles" then it's probably a good thing the OP doesn't see it that way or she wouldn't be walking out the door every morning to earn a full time salary.

 

[cabanafrau]

I do suck at advocating for my own needs. But then again - I am a low maintenance person. I don't need a spa day or my nails done or a shopping day. I need couch potato time and a glass of wine!


I for sure put myself last. But I have also said many times he is like having another child. I don't mean it mean - but I hate picking up after him or doing things I would expect him to do just because I'd rather not argue about it getting done. But I do need to change that. A good place to start...


I probably do have my own issues in front of what else is going on here that I would let this bother me so bad.
Getting back to a counselor is probably another good place to start. And I agree that I shouldn't accept his laziness.


He does have a full time job too. He sleeps in - goes in late and comes home late. So he just gets at most an hour with the kid before we put him to bed - one of my complaints I brought up about how he does his life these days. I wish he could get on a more "normal" schedule. What's he gonna do when the lil guy starts Sports, or Ball - will he just never get to go or participate? Will it always be me taking care of all that?


Lil man is about to be 4. And I am guilty of spending as much time with him as I can. I don't want to look back and have regrets about missing time with him. But I don't think its his fault that hubby and I don't date night as much as we should. That's partly hubby's fault for not being home much and partly my fault for not pursuing it enough.



Good stuff here - thank you. I didn't even think about that I am teaching my 4 year old to be the same way by doing everything for him - I appreciate that you called me out on that too. I want to raise a son who is there for his wife in every way



He definitely needs to spend more time with our son. I do need to find ways to force that.

Take a long, hard honest look at whether or not your desire for time with your son really didn't establish a cozy nest for two that leaves no real space or role for your husband. It's common for that dynamic to establish in infancy and become such a way of life that the couple becomes oblivious to its existence, just accepting that's how life works.

You are very on target to realize that your child is absorbing all that's going on and will take his cues into the future. That's an important consideration for the life that both of you model for him all the way around.

You mention several things that make me wonder if there's any depression in the mix for you or your husband. Your choice of words in the thread title, you freely admit you need to get back in the gym, you mention having sought counseling in the past, husband's desire for lots of sleep, etc. Make no mistake, everybody needs the occasional couch potato night on the sofa with a glass of wine. If you never wish you could get together with friends for dinner, see that movie that looks really interesting or play a round of tennis, that can potentially be an indication of depression.

This is all food for thought for you, not the kind of thing you should feel you need to explain here.

 

[wvjules]

Stop trying to do everything and tell him you need help. You have a partner, not another child. Act like it. Both of you.

 

[Piglet843]

I imagine today - he feels normal and is like - "hey well she obviously has some things to work on about herself".
I don't imagine he is thinking of ways to do things better on his end. It will be up to me to implement these changes to make things better.

In my experience men and women are absolutely not the same, we process things differently and approach things differently. My life got a whole lot easier when I started to understand that just because I see the world one way does not mean that my husband sees it the same way. I also don't see it as shouldering all the blame, they are equally 'to blame' in this situation, but it is the OP who is here asking for suggestions and perspective not her husband.

I tend to agree with this.

People mostly don't change. Many men act like helpless idiots. Most women want a man who knows how to treat them. My wife is my treasure. I would move on from him now. You eventually will any way.

And this. I was afraid of hearing something like this. At what point does it have to get to for me before I decide its not worth it anymore? I dunno. I do want to fix things and have a happy marriage. But how will I know when its just not enough anymore?

Yeah, I really don't think we're the same either. Which is why I choke on all the comments I see these days claiming that they are.

Regardless of how we see the world though, both should be shouldering the responsibility of taking care of what needs to be done at home. OP should not be the one making him do his share. That said, they've worked their way into a bad pattern at this point and it will likely require some of that to get out of it. I just don't thinks she should be so fast to take the blame. And I don't think he should have been so fast to assign the blame on her.

It is clear that for me - I will have to make these changes and implement them if I want to see change. He will not do it himself. This is not the first time I've expressed my concerns (previous times were just less of a fight and more of a "talk")

I agree. If notes and very specific directions are what it takes, then definitely do it.

Just don't be so quick to assume all of the blame is yours.

Thank you

Not all do. My husband does not notice a dirty floor or dishes in the sink, a full garbage can or dust. I’m the opposite, these things make me uncomfortable. Now, if he was complaining that I’m not cleaning these things, that would be a problem, but he never has. We are just wired differently.

That's definitely my life right now. He just does not "see" it. But my DH does occasionally have the balls to say something is too messy or is getting on his nerves about not being done - then he will attempt to pitch in and help. But that's pretty rare.

Just assuming, but it could be the DH does think he is taking care of things at home, if he is basing his responsibilities on "traditional" male roles.. He works ( but so does she).. but maybe in his eyes, getting the oil changes, mowing once a week, doing taxes etc... is doing his share, but traditional woman roles such as cookiing, cleaning, laundry, organizing household things is her role.... IMO, these take of more time..

My current situation at home for example... I usually have the overview of what the kids's schedule is.... They both joined a band and OMG the emails I get on practice and concerts is driving me nuts.. Sooooo I decided.. DH is now in charge of ALL band things..... I gave them his email ,,, he he..

I do think my DH has the "traditional" male mindset as much as I have the "old fashioned" housewife mindset.
He brings home the bacon - and calls it a day.

He is adamant about that our son will play sports and such. I need to do what you are - and if son is going to do these things
It will be DH's responsibility to be in charge of them.
That will definitely help with what I mentioned earlier about how I am concerned about his involvement in these activities.

 

[gillep]

Be sure not to take all of this on yourself either. As I said I think you both contributed to this situation, I provided my perspective to you as I saw a lot of myself in you, and you are the one here asking for opinions, but do not take that to mean that your husband gets a free ride. There are certainly things you are doing to perpetuate the status-quo, but there are likely just as many things he is doing as well. He needs to work on himself too, he needs to be able to see your perspective as well, this is on both of you. I am thankful that my husband was very open to working on the marriage, even if at the beginning most of the issues with the marriage seemed to be mine. As we worked through things and learned how to communicate our perspectives and needs it became obvious that we both had faults, and could both try more and do better.

 

[Piglet843]

Take a long, hard honest look at whether or not your desire for time with your son really didn't establish a cozy nest for two that leaves no real space or role for your husband. It's common for that dynamic to establish in infancy and become such a way of life that the couple becomes oblivious to its existence, just accepting that's how life works.

You are very on target to realize that your child is absorbing all that's going on and will take his cues into the future. That's an important consideration for the life that both of you model for him all the way around.

You mention several things that make me wonder if there's any depression in the mix for you or your husband. Your choice of words in the thread title, you freely admit you need to get back in the gym, you mention having sought counseling in the past, husband's desire for lots of sleep, etc. Make no mistake, everybody needs the occasional couch potato night on the sofa with a glass of wine. If you never wish you could get together with friends for dinner, see that movie that looks really interesting or play a round of tennis, that can potentially be an indication of depression.

This is all food for thought for you, not the kind of thing you should feel you need to explain here.

Good things that I needed to hear. I am probably "down" - because I am always resentful and jealous.

He is not depressed - he is fine. He goes to bed at 2am and gets up at 9 or 10. That is not excess sleep. Its just ridiculous hours that he keeps because he always has - and I want him to be more on our hours - maybe sleep 10-7 or 11-8 and spend more waking time with us, especially on the weekends. And the fact that we've been married 15 years - and I've expressed this to him sooo many times and he still hasn't changed - that makes me sad. I would think he would want to for our Son!

Stop trying to do everything and tell him you need help. You have a partner, not another child. Act like it. Both of you.

Thank you for the tough love I do plan make changes.

 

[Piglet843]

Be sure not to take all of this on yourself either. As I said I think you both contributed to this situation, I provided my perspective to you as I saw a lot of myself in you, and you are the one here asking for opinions, but do not take that to mean that your husband gets a free ride. There are certainly things you are doing to perpetuate the status-quo, but there are likely just as many things he is doing as well. He needs to work on himself too, he needs to be able to see your perspective as well, this is on both of you. I am thankful that my husband was very open to working on the marriage, even if at the beginning most of the issues with the marriage seemed to be mine. As we worked through things and learned how to communicate our perspectives and needs it became obvious that we both had faults, and could both try more and do better.

Thank you - I am praying that this is the time we can get our life going back down a better path. We do have a good marriage - we are "that" couple from the outside looking in. I do hope he is thinking harder about some things today, and maybe this weekend will provide the opportunity to turn things back around.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I do suck at advocating for my own needs. But then again - I am a low maintenance person. I don't need a spa day or my nails done or a shopping day. I need couch potato time and a glass of wine!

So maybe your husband can establish a weekly (or bi weekly?) "Boy's night" with your son. They can go out for dinner (at age 4 pizza or fast food or pizza is usually a big hit, so it won't cost a lot) then to a park or bowling or home with plans to play Legos in the basement, etc and then DH handles bath and bedtime.

Meanwhile you just enjoy a chill night. Read, Get some take out. Drink some wine. Go to bed early if you want. . .

He does have a full time job too. He sleeps in - goes in late and comes home late. So he just gets at most an hour with the kid before we put him to bed - one of my complaints I brought up about how he does his life these days. I wish he could get on a more "normal" schedule. What's he gonna do when the lil guy starts Sports, or Ball - will he just never get to go or participate? Will it always be me taking care of all that?

It sounds like your son will not be in school for another year or two. Can you change his sleep schedule so he sleeps later and your DH gets him ready in the mornings and off to daycare? Then you do pick up and dinner. Would reduce his total time in daycare, take pressure off of you AND be good bonding time for your husband and son.

Lil man is about to be 4. And I am guilty of spending as much time with him as I can. I don't want to look back and have regrets about missing time with him. But I don't think its his fault that hubby and I don't date night as much as we should. That's partly hubby's fault for not being home much and partly my fault for not pursuing it enough.

Honestly, it is healthy for your son to spend time with others, time entertaining himself, time just him and his dad----as well as time with you. Letting go of that emotiional need to be with him as much as possible will be good for you both.

 

[Piglet843]

So maybe your husband can establish a weekly (or bi weekly?) "Boy's night" with your son. They can go out for dinner (at age 4 pizza or fast food or pizza is usually a big hit, so it won't cost a lot) then to a park or bowling or home with plans to play Legos in the basement, etc and then DH handles bath and bedtime.

Meanwhile you just enjoy a chill night. Read, Get some take out. Drink some wine. Go to bed early if you want. . .











It sounds like your son will not be in school for another year or two. Can you change his sleep schedule so he sleeps later and your DH gets him ready in the mornings and off to daycare? Then you do pick up and dinner. Would reduce his total time in daycare, take pressure off of you AND be good bonding time for your husband and son.



Honestly, it is healthy for your son to spend time with others, time entertaining himself, time just him and his dad----as well as time with you. Letting go of that emotiional need to be with him as much as possible will be good for you both.

Some good ideas here - thank you

 

[soccerdad72]

Not all do. My husband does not notice a dirty floor or dishes in the sink, a full garbage can or dust. I’m the opposite, these things make me uncomfortable. Now, if he was complaining that I’m not cleaning these things, that would be a problem, but he never has. We are just wired differently.

Pretty much - generally speaking, we men are 'clutter blind'

 

[cabanafrau]

Good things that I needed to hear. I am probably "down" - because I am always resentful and jealous.

He is not depressed - he is fine. He goes to bed at 2am and gets up at 9 or 10. That is not excess sleep. Its just ridiculous hours that he keeps because he always has - and I want him to be more on our hours - maybe sleep 10-7 or 11-8 and spend more waking time with us, especially on the weekends. And the fact that we've been married 15 years - and I've expressed this to him sooo many times and he still hasn't changed - that makes me sad. I would think he would want to for our Son!



Thank you for the tough love I do plan make changes.

I imagine today - he feels normal and is like - "hey well she obviously has some things to work on about herself".
I don't imagine he is thinking of ways to do things better on his end. It will be up to me to implement these changes to make things better.

And this. I was afraid of hearing something like this. At what point does it have to get to for me before I decide its not worth it anymore? I dunno. I do want to fix things and have a happy marriage. But how will I know when its just not enough anymore?


It is clear that for me - I will have to make these changes and implement them if I want to see change. He will not do it himself. This is not the first time I've expressed my concerns (previous times were just less of a fight and more of a "talk")



That's definitely my life right now. He just does not "see" it. But my DH does occasionally have the balls to say something is too messy or is getting on his nerves about not being done - then he will attempt to pitch in and help. But that's pretty rare.


I do think my DH has the "traditional" male mindset as much as I have the "old fashioned" housewife mindset.
He brings home the bacon - and calls it a day.

He is adamant about that our son will play sports and such. I need to do what you are - and if son is going to do these things
It will be DH's responsibility to be in charge of them.
That will definitely help with what I mentioned earlier about how I am concerned about his involvement in these activities.

Thank you - I am praying that this is the time we can get our life going back down a better path. We do have a good marriage - we are "that" couple from the outside looking in. I do hope he is thinking harder about some things today, and maybe this weekend will provide the opportunity to turn things back around.

I am confused, within two replies on the same page you say that you imagine today he feels normal and thinking you have things you need to work on about yourself -- then a few posts later you hope he is thinking harder about some things today, as if you genuinely expect that's a possibility? This just does not sound like thoughts that reasonably coexist about one's spouse, especially when you emphatically state that you will have to implement the changes because he will not do so himself.

It can be an extremely difficult thing for people to change their natural body clock, which is what his long-term pattern sounds like. You need to have reasonable expectations here, possibly an immediate goal of working towards an hour earlier to bed, an hour up earlier in the morning -- opening up the possibility of spending the extra evening hour with you and/or your son. I'd imagine it would be extremely difficult to shift more than a maximum of two hours on each end, but I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing hard for him to make the effort for your family.

 

[OhhBother]

One thing about the sleeping hours -- some people are just wired differently. I love to sleep in -- always have. I still sleep until 9:30 or 10 on the weekends. And I love staying up late when I get the opportunity. But I'm an adult with a job and responsibilities, so most days I'm on the "traditional" wake/sleep schedule.

Maybe figure out a compromise where your husband still gets the opportunity to enjoy "some" late nights and late mornings -- but as a treat and not the norm. My husband is an early riser -- always has been. So he enjoys some "me" time on Saturday mornings while I sleep. It works for both of us.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I'm surprised at the number of people giving the OP's husband a pass here. He has eyes. I'm sure he's not stupid. Why is it the OP's job to make him do what needs to be done? To leave notes, to assign him chores? I thought men and women were all the same. So why isn't he able to jump in and contribute without the motherly hand holding? I really don't get it.

That said, it is what it is at this point. There needs to be some negotiation and some deal making. Blaming at this point won't help. But OP, I wouldn't be so fast to shoulder all of the blame. I actually find it pretty manipulative of the husband to immediately blame her.

It’s not so much about giving him a pass as making sure OP understands they’re in this journey together and they’ve arrived at their current location together. Admittedly, the sheer volume of “me time” he’s receiving seems alarming at the least. But, it’s more important to determine where she & they need to be going forward and how to get there.

 

[wvjules]

And one more thing...if my husband wanted his "needs" met he'd be coming to bed with me instead of me waiting up all hours of the night for him.

 

[mom2rtk]

It’s not so much about giving him a pass as making sure OP understands they’re in this journey together and they’ve arrived at their current location together. Admittedly, the sheer volume of “me time” he’s receiving seems alarming at the least. But, it’s more important to determine where she & they need to be going forward and how to get there.

I can't disagree with any of that. But I was sort of taken aback at how quickly he wanted to place all the blame on her.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

Thank you for the replies so far - everyone's perspective is different but worth hearing.



I am guilty of the martyr role and insisting on taking care of everything - so you are right - I am stuck with what I've created.



He wasn't hostile - more like another PP said - blindsighted by my efforts to hash stuff out. You are right -I never expect him to step up or help - so he doesn't. We definitely have a marriage that can withstand this setback. I do need to make some changes that will put us down a better path.



Yes this is a good idea. I do think he will be receptive to helping make changes. And I am very open to letting go of things being done a certain way.



He would never do counseling. I have in the past for other issues. Maybe its time to look her up again.



Thank you for this



I do suck at advocating for my own needs. But then again - I am a low maintenance person. I don't need a spa day or my nails done or a shopping day. I need couch potato time and a glass of wine!



I think he knows now... lol



I have a cleaning lady too - best money spent all month!! I still have stuff to do in between her coming - but it helps a lot!



I for sure put myself last. But I have also said many times he is like having another child. I don't mean it mean - but I hate picking up after him or doing things I would expect him to do just because I'd rather not argue about it getting done. But I do need to change that. A good place to start...



100% truth!



Good advise - thank you



I probably do have my own issues in front of what else is going on here that I would let this bother me so bad.
Getting back to a counselor is probably another good place to start. And I agree that I shouldn't accept his laziness.



He does have a full time job too. He sleeps in - goes in late and comes home late. So he just gets at most an hour with the kid before we put him to bed - one of my complaints I brought up about how he does his life these days. I wish he could get on a more "normal" schedule. What's he gonna do when the lil guy starts Sports, or Ball - will he just never get to go or participate? Will it always be me taking care of all that?

I do love the list idea. I feel like if he saw it on paper - and had to help get boxes checked - it would change his perspective on what all has to be done and how much I am taking care of. Thank you for this.



I am guilty. The downside of bottling things up - they eventually boil over.



Lil man is about to be 4. And I am guilty of spending as much time with him as I can. I don't want to look back and have regrets about missing time with him. But I don't think its his fault that hubby and I don't date night as much as we should. That's partly hubby's fault for not being home much and partly my fault for not pursuing it enough.



Good stuff here - thank you. I didn't even think about that I am teaching my 4 year old to be the same way by doing everything for him - I appreciate that you called me out on that too. I want to raise a son who is there for his wife in every way



He definitely needs to spend more time with our son. I do need to find ways to force that.



Truth



Thank you for a guy's perspective.



I think we can fix this too, we both have a lot to work on.



I have told him many times - long before this fight - I do 100% NEED AND WANT him in our lives. Nothing will change that. If I didn't, I wouldn't care about fixing this. I want us to have a happy healthy family.



I do need to get back in the gym!!



I don't want our family to break up - ever! I want to fix our issues.



I do like the list idea another poster mentioned- may start that this weekend.



I am too an "old fashion" wife - and honestly I'm not complaining about what I do. I am really not even complaining about what he doesn't do. I am complaining about the life that he gets to live that I don't. But at the same time - I honestly don't want my life to be like his - missing that much time with my son - I just build up the jealousy and resentment as its happening day to day in my face.



Couldn't be more truth here. I know now that its not going to happen if I don't ask. So ask - or there's not excuse for me to be angry about it.

Just to be fair, the fact that you’ve taken on the martyr role is no reason to feel “stuck”. You’re not where you need to be and just because you had a role in arriving at your current locale does not mean you have an obligation to be stuck there. If you jumped into a river and began to drown, your loved ones still need to rescue you even though you were the one who jumped.

It’s not that your complaints are without merit. We’d just love to see you deal with them in a more constructive & healthier manner than focusing on the resentment. That doesn’t help anyone, least of all you.

So, please don’t take these comments as saying you need to suck it up. That’s not what we’re getting at here. You haven’t asked for anything unreasonable and you need to fight for what you need.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I can't disagree with any of that. But I was sort of taken aback at how quickly he wanted to place all the blame on her.

We’re onky hearing one side, but yes it sounds defensive & like a bit of a copout.