"Red Shirt" Vent

[mom2aredhead]

Just a thought...

You can pretty much find a study to back up either argument:

Kids needs to be older:

http://www.rand.org/pubs/research_briefs/RB9082/index1.html
http://www.clipfile.org/clips/001136.php

Kids do fine when they are younger:

http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/12716.html
http://dyslexia.wordpress.com/2008/08/28/dont-delay-kindergarten-study/
http://www.livescience.com/culture/delaying-kindergarten-redshirting-children-education-100905.html
http://www.readingrockets.org/article/30137
http://journal.naeyc.org/btj/200309/DelayingKEntry.pdf

It all depends on who is paying for the study, and who stands to benefit from the results.

 

[DisneyCrazyMomma]

You know I'm right with you on this Mom2aRedhead!

So many people do it BECAUSE of sports too. UGH!

And to pp who wonders why we would be annoyed, because the kids who are not held back and sent when they are 'supposed' to be can (not a given, but a possiblity) get the short end of the stick. There are 'would be/supposed to be' third graders in the class with second graders. Which isn't so bad unless the parent then insists on that child being 'challenged' (like with 3rd grade work...ummmm....you OPTED to have them held back to a younger curriculum).

Very strange that this parent wouldn't have realized it however, being that much older at that age definitely would see a difference in height.

My dd's best friend in her 2nd grade class is 13 months older than she is. But at least the mom acknowledges that the differences are due to her opting not to send her on time.

Not parents' fault however, the districts need to enforce cutoffs and institute an age that a child needs to be entered in Kindergarten to keep it as equal as possible or it will forever exist.

I agree with you!

 

[DisneyBuffinDE]

My kids do go to private school and my son is a 9/15 so he started K when he was 5 but very soon turned 6. It was interesting because both my DH and the school were for him staying back and not starting early when I wanted him to. He is now in 1st and he is where he needs to be. There are also a bunch of kids that have birthdays before his in his class. School is about education not sports so if you are worried about the child being better at sports because he is older then you are not looking at the true meaning of school. My son is great at sports but he will be small so I don't think anyone will notice but when it comes to education it is where he needs to be grade wise. So I am finally happy with the dis. to start him when we did.
To add if we would have sent him to public he would still be in the same grade we chose to put him in since the cut off is 08/31 so this also makes me feel ok about when he started.

 

[Ashlotte]

Now think about your dd and how well she's doing - now think about a 3rd grader whose parents just didn't think was 'right' in 3rd grade so they opted to send them back to 2nd (I know, it can't happen - just bear with me, trying to tell you what it feels like on the other side of the coin). So this 3rd grader likely has already been taught all the same material as your dd and then some. And now, let's say there's only room for 3 kids in the advanced work program, and BAM - your dd no longer makes it because this 3rd grader is taking her place.

This is how those of us at the younger end of the spectrum feel. That with many parents Redshirting it ultimately negatively affects our own kids.

I TOTALLY agree. I don't get why parents of kids that have been optionally held back brag about how their kids are in AP classes as evidence that they made the right choice. That to me just proves they should have gone to school on time! Leave the AP classes for the kids that are TRULY advanced for their AGE, not just working with and being compared to kids that are younger than them. It is artifically proping your kids up to be "advanced" (but in reality, average for their true grade), at the expense of the kids that are meant to be there. If I went to kindergarten now, I would definitely be the top of the class, too.

 

[DisneyBuffinDE]

From personal experience I wanted to send my DS to K when he was 4 but we sent him at 5. I wanted to send him early because I was a 11/9 bday and felt like I was one of the oldest in the class. It hasn't gotten any better now that I am 35. My Sister-in-law is 1 year younger then me almost to the day and it really annoys me that we both graduated the same year. I was 18 when I graduated and she was only 17. So point is what is really getting red shirted? Did my son get red shirted because he started school K when he was 5 and turned 6 only 2 weeks later or didn't he because if he went to public school he would have started also when he was 5 since the cut off is 8/31 and his b-day is 09/15?

 

[palavra]

I TOTALLY agree. I don't get why parents of kids that have been optionally held back brag about how their kids are in AP classes as evidence that they made the right choice. That to me just proves they should have gone to school on time! Leave the AP classes for the kids that are TRULY advanced for their AGE, not just working with and being compared to kids that are younger than them. It is artifically proping your kids up to be "advanced" (but in reality, average for their true grade), at the expense of the kids that are meant to be there. If I went to kindergarten now, I would definitely be the top of the class, too.

If it is my post you are talking about, I am not bragging about my daughter being advanced in her class. She had tested gifted when we also tested her for ADHD. Her birthday is one day before our cutoff date. She turned 8 three weeks after second grade started.

I don't get why having a child who is one the younger end of the spectrum in a classroom is a detriment to yor child? There will always be an oldest and youngest in every class. Sometimes, these kids are only a few months apart, and sometimes they are 12+ months apart. But unless you are comparing your kids to the older ones in the class, how is your child being affected other than in a sports program?

 

[brymolmom]

If it is my post you are talking about, I am not bragging about my daughter being advanced in her class. She had tested gifted when we also tested her for ADHD. Her birthday is one day before our cutoff date. She turned 8 three weeks after second grade started.

I don't get why having a child who is one the younger end of the spectrum in a classroom is a detriment to yor child? There will always be an oldest and youngest in every class. Sometimes, these kids are only a few months apart, and sometimes they are 12+ months apart. But unless you are comparing your kids to the older ones in the class, how is your child being affected other than in a sports program?

Because 12 month age span is as 'fair' as it can get. Yes - the kids MIGHT be 12 months minus one day in age apart - and yes, that can be a big difference at 4 vs. 5....However, this is as fair as it can get (unless we go to 6 month classrooms, but that's another discussion for a situation with much larger budgets than currently exist).

So when you put kids who 'should be' in 1st grade in the Kindergarten classroom, that teacher is now in a position to have to, or be encouraged to, teach a lot more 1st grade material than he or she otherwise would have. In a 12 month classroom - you have a natural bell curve with a couple/few kids at the high end, a couple at the low, and most in the middle. With would-be first graders dragging that curve to the high end, you end up with a very unnatural situation for those kids in the middle or low end of that original curve. Suddenly, instead of seeming like they are doing ok or just below the average, now they seem to be really behind. When truly, most of the kids just should be in a higher grade, they're likely FINE. The teacher's time and resources are now spent more than they would have been on teaching more challenging material and all of the sudden a perfectly average 4 year old seems 'too immature' for a classroom that is SUPPOSED to have 4 year olds in it. Well, of course he/she seems less mature - she's FOUR and others are 6.

And it's not so much my own comparison I worry about - I worry about the teacher's comparison (done all the time - separating into reading groups, etc) and I worry about the comparison of the kids themselves (self fulfillling prophecy - if a child sees a bunch of kids already reading,etc and she can't yet - she will start out on the wrong foot by thinking she's not as smart as they are - when truly she might be the brightest, they just should be in 1st grade). Comparisons cannot be avoided.

I don't understand how people think that other kids in the classroom could not be affected by redshirting....

 

[taitai]

Because 12 month age span is as 'fair' as it can get. Yes - the kids MIGHT be 12 months minus one day in age apart - and yes, that can be a big difference at 4 vs. 5....However, this is as fair as it can get (unless we go to 6 month classrooms, but that's another discussion for a situation with much larger budgets than currently exist).

So when you put kids who 'should be' in 1st grade in the Kindergarten classroom, that teacher is now in a position to have to, or be encouraged to, teach a lot more 1st grade material than he or she otherwise would have. In a 12 month classroom - you have a natural bell curve with a couple/few kids at the high end, a couple at the low, and most in the middle. With would-be first graders dragging that curve to the high end, you end up with a very unnatural situation for those kids in the middle or low end of that original curve. Suddenly, instead of seeming like they are doing ok or just below the average, now they seem to be really behind. When truly, most of the kids just should be in a higher grade, they're likely FINE. The teacher's time and resources are now spent more than they would have been on teaching more challenging material and all of the sudden a perfectly average 4 year old seems 'too immature' for a classroom that is SUPPOSED to have 4 year olds in it. Well, of course he/she seems less mature - she's FOUR and others are 6.

And it's not so much my own comparison I worry about - I worry about the teacher's comparison (done all the time - separating into reading groups, etc) and I worry about the comparison of the kids themselves (self fulfillling prophecy - if a child sees a bunch of kids already reading,etc and she can't yet - she will start out on the wrong foot by thinking she's not as smart as they are - when truly she might be the brightest, they just should be in 1st grade). Comparisons cannot be avoided.

I don't understand how people think that other kids in the classroom could not be affected by redshirting....

I actually don't agree with this. Education has gotten more rigorous over the years. It isn't due to red shirting in kindergarten. It is due to the need for kids to learn more and differently and sooner than before in order to remain competitive. Look at high school. The subject taught in our high school (architecture, computer drafting, AP, IB) did not exist (well, AP did) when I was in high school. We are trying to retrofit 21st century learning into an agrarian teaching model and it leads to more rigorous curriculum in the elementary years.

My sons' local elementary school is a full 100% Immersion program. All day long they speak only Mandarin and learn only in Mandarin. This starts in kindergarten. It is hard. I don't fault parents for making sure their children are a tad older going into this environment. We are fortunate in that all of our kids missed the cut-off due to their late fall birthdays so we never had to make a red shirting choice. However, had they had earlier birthdays, we absolutely would have held them back in order to give them the greatest chance of success.

Also, of the 44 kids in my sons' kindergarten classes, ALL the children knew how to read before starting kindergarten. That seems to be the norm here now. The days of learning letters and numbers in kindergarten, at least in our district, seems to have gone away.

 

[brymolmom]

I actually don't agree with this. Education has gotten more rigorous over the years. It isn't due to red shirting in kindergarten. It is due to the need for kids to learn more and differently and sooner than before in order to remain competitive. Look at high school. The subject taught in our high school (architecture, computer drafting, AP, IB) did not exist (well, AP did) when I was in high school. We are trying to retrofit 21st century learning into an agrarian teaching model and it leads to more rigorous curriculum in the elementary years.

My sons' local elementary school is a full 100% Immersion program. All day long they speak only Mandarin and learn only in Mandarin. This starts in kindergarten. It is hard. I don't fault parents for making sure their children are a tad older going into this environment. We are fortunate in that all of our kids missed the cut-off due to their late fall birthdays so we never had to make a red shirting choice. However, had they had earlier birthdays, we absolutely would have held them back in order to give them the greatest chance of success.

Also, of the 44 kids in my sons' kindergarten classes, ALL the children knew how to read before starting kindergarten. That seems to be the norm here now. The days of learning letters and numbers in kindergarten, at least in our district, seems to have gone away.

I would say all the kids in my kids K classes knew their letters and numbers, but very few actually knew how to read (aside from the handful of words here and there).

I agree that more is being learned, but as of yet - the K curriculum (at least here) is that beginning reading is taught in K. So it is fine, IMO, to change that to do more advanced reading, etc. and even to have kids be older for it. All I want is for it to be FAIR for everyone. So if they change the curriculum and think that it would be better for kids to be older 5 and 6 in K- fine, change the cutoff. But enforce it so that the kids are on even playing field when beginning.

Especially with increasing demands in the younger grades, it becomes MORE important for the teacher to be able to focus on a group of similarly-aged children so that he/she can give assistance to those who might need it.

 

[jodifla]

I would say all the kids in my kids K classes knew their letters and numbers, but very few actually knew how to read (aside from the handful of words here and there).

I agree that more is being learned, but as of yet - the K curriculum (at least here) is that beginning reading is taught in K. So it is fine, IMO, to change that to do more advanced reading, etc. and even to have kids be older for it. All I want is for it to be FAIR for everyone. So if they change the curriculum and think that it would be better for kids to be older 5 and 6 in K- fine, change the cutoff. But enforce it so that the kids are on even playing field when beginning.

Especially with increasing demands in the younger grades, it becomes MORE important for the teacher to be able to focus on a group of similarly-aged children so that he/she can give assistance to those who might need it.

And once upon a time (the 60s!) reading didn't start until 1st grade....we did letters and numbers in Kindergarten. How my son's school started is they reviewed letters and numbers the first weeks, then moved into sight words.

So K is the new 1st grade, so many peoples thing once, twice then again before sending their child to k at 4 years old.

 

[Ava]

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about and what is happening in private schools in my area. It is becoming more and more the norm here . A decade ago, no one would have even considered redshirting, and now 25-30% of kids in private schools are redshirts.

A lot of private schools in NYC somewhat base admissions decisions on the age & gender of the child. A boy who turns 5 the summer before K starts is not likely to be accepted into K at 5; the private schools prefer the kids to be older, especially boys. In contrast, the cutoff for NYC public schools is Dec 31st & it's difficult to red shirt. We haven't gotten to this yet ourselves but from what I've been told by others with kids in NYC public, if you try to enroll a child who is already 6 or turning 6 that year in K the school will push to have that child placed directly in 1st grade (as K is still optional by law). Which means a lot of kids in private school here are a full 2 years older than their same-grade public school counterparts.

My opinion... red shirting (outside of cases of legitimate developmental delay) bothers me. DD's birthday is April 30th so we won't have to make that decision ourselves, but the fact that there can be a 2-year age range in a single class is not fair to the teachers or to the students. A firm cutoff (whatever that cutoff may be) resulting in a maximum age range of 1-year in a single class seems to me to be the most fair to all. There are going to be differing levels of academic ability within a class even of same-aged students, so why exacerbate those differences by adding in wider age ranges too?

 

[Leajess99]

And once upon a time (the 60s!) reading didn't start until 1st grade....we did letters and numbers in Kindergarten. How my son's school started is they reviewed letters and numbers the first weeks, then moved into sight words.

So K is the new 1st grade, so many peoples thing once, twice then again before sending their child to k at 4 years old.

Please don't take this wrong but kids are smarter now than they once were. They have more educational opportunities PRIOR to entering Kindergarten. How many 3 year olds knew how to operate a television in the 60s and 70s?? Look at the kids now and they are operating computers, televisions, game systems, Ipod Touches, Ipads, etc. Times have changed and we learn from the past (for the most part). There are more studies and the realization is that a lot more people are ready to be challenged earlier.

Even with a severe speech delay which was expected to delay my youngest's reading, pronunciation, etc, she is actually above grade level reading and is already done with all the sight word lists. She loves being challenged and even teaches herself stuff. I can't give her enough worksheets or learning opportunities. These are things that I did not have in the 70s. My mom did her best but we did not have the opportunities these kids have. The continual "in the past kids weren't learning to read until 1st grade" is really old because it has people living in the past. We are in the future and while we do not have the flying cars, robots doing everything (some can do a lot), and all that other fantasy stuff we thought about in the 70s, at least, we have so much more educational wise.

Kids need to be challenged and we have come so far.

 

[GinnyEmma]

And we do not have higher test scores, nor do we have a higher graduation rate. So what is the point? Higher scores in 1st through 3rd have done nothing to improve the overall education.

So, the condescending attitude is kind of silly. But don't take this wrong.

 

[jodifla]

Please don't take this wrong but kids are smarter now than they once were. They have more educational opportunities PRIOR to entering Kindergarten. How many 3 year olds knew how to operate a television in the 60s and 70s?? Look at the kids now and they are operating computers, televisions, game systems, Ipod Touches, Ipads, etc. Times have changed and we learn from the past (for the most part). There are more studies and the realization is that a lot more people are ready to be challenged earlier.

Even with a severe speech delay which was expected to delay my youngest's reading, pronunciation, etc, she is actually above grade level reading and is already done with all the sight word lists. She loves being challenged and even teaches herself stuff. I can't give her enough worksheets or learning opportunities. These are things that I did not have in the 70s. My mom did her best but we did not have the opportunities these kids have. The continual "in the past kids weren't learning to read until 1st grade" is really old because it has people living in the past. We are in the future and while we do not have the flying cars, robots doing everything (some can do a lot), and all that other fantasy stuff we thought about in the 70s, at least, we have so much more educational wise.

Kids need to be challenged and we have come so far.

Kids may be exposed to more, but it doesn't make them "smarter." Or able to handle the rigors of today's K at 4 years old.

No one is saying a child shouldn't be exposed to things at a young age. My son was in preschool starting at 20 months. But I knew he wasn't ready for K when he was 4.

 

[jodifla]

This is EXACTLY what I am talking about and what is happening in private schools in my area. It is becoming more and more the norm here . A decade ago, no one would have even considered redshirting, and now 25-30% of kids in private schools are redshirts.The expectations in K have not changed. The standards are still the same. It is all about bieng the best, and not what is the child actually needs.

It doesn't surprise me that the number of redshirts in private school is higher. In fact, it only makes sense. There are often tests to get into private school that a child is more likely to be able to do at 5 than 4.

Private schools also pick and choose exactly who they want. They are often quick to throw kids out who are misbehaving. So parents, who are dropping a bundle to put their kids in that school, are unlikely to put a young child in there, only to have them fail.

And it's highly likely that the private schools themselves want the kids when they are older, and that's why the rate is so high.

 

[Jennabeth]

Wow, I can't tell you how much I just love these threads. I really need to stop reading them because it makes my blood boil. I love how those who choose to send their kids "on time" get to assume that their choice was made due to the child, but those like me who choose to red shirt, do it so our child will be the best/biggest/smartest in the class or because we aren't able to let our kids grow up. Did it ever occur to anyone that we made our choice because WE know or children and want what is best for that child?

In MI the cut off is 12/1 which, IMHO is way too late. That means my October baby would be 4 in K and 16 when she started her senior year. Now, I wasn't a happy about that but would have sent her if I thought she was ready, but I KNOW as her mother she wasn't ready so I waited. I am a WOHM so it really didn't make a different to me if was home all day, or in school. It's not like I got to spend more time with her during the day. She's now in second grade and is one of the older ones, but isn't the oldest (there are children in her class whose birthdays are in July & Aug) but is one of the smallest. If you saw here you would never think she was an older student, my girls are both tiny. She loves school, loves her friends and loves learning. I am 100% positive I made the best decision for her. It was not a decision we took lightly, we thought about it for 2 years and spoke with many people before making the decision and I would do it again.

So for those of you who sent their kids "on time," I'm happy it's working for you, but don't assume you know my situation or child. How would you like it if I made a broad statement and said all those who sent their 4 YO to K are doing it so you could get your kids out of the house sooner or did it because you wanted to save money on daycare, or how would you like it if I said you did it because then you would have an excuse when your child didn't do well in school? Now you know how how I feel with your broad statements and assumptions.

Oh, and for those who said it's a new thing, it isn't, at least in MI. I am a Sept birthday and am in my mid-30s and was sent to K when I was 5 turning 6 and was not the oldest in my class. I think if they want to make the system "fair" the whole US needs to standardize the cutoff and make it July 1st. There will always be kids who are smarter or bigger no matter what their age when they enter K.

 

[brymolmom]

Wow, I can't tell you how much I just love these threads. I really need to stop reading them because it makes my blood boil. I love how those who choose to send their kids "on time" get to assume that their choice was made due to the child, but those like me who choose to red shirt, do it so our child will be the best/biggest/smartest in the class or because we aren't able to let our kids grow up. Did it ever occur to anyone that we made our choice because WE know or children and want what is best for that child?

In MI the cut off is 12/1 which, IMHO is way too late. That means my October baby would be 4 in K and 16 when she started her senior year. Now, I wasn't a happy about that but would have sent her if I thought she was ready, but I KNOW as her mother she wasn't ready so I waited. I am a WOHM so it really didn't make a different to me if was home all day, or in school. It's not like I got to spend more time with her during the day. She's now in second grade and is one of the older ones, but isn't the oldest (there are children in her class whose birthdays are in July & Aug) but is one of the smallest. If you saw here you would never think she was an older student, my girls are both tiny. She loves school, loves her friends and loves learning. I am 100% positive I made the best decision for her. It was not a decision we took lightly, we thought about it for 2 years and spoke with many people before making the decision and I would do it again.

So for those of you who sent their kids "on time," I'm happy it's working for you, but don't assume you know my situation or child. How would you like it if I made a broad statement and said all those who sent their 4 YO to K are doing it so you could get your kids out of the house sooner or did it because you wanted to save money on daycare, or how would you like it if I said you did it because then you would have an excuse when your child didn't do well in school? Now you know how how I feel with your broad statements and assumptions.

Oh, and for those who said it's a new thing, it isn't, at least in MI. I am a Sept birthday and am in my mid-30s and was sent to K when I was 5 turning 6 and was not the oldest in my class. I think if they want to make the system "fair" the whole US needs to standardize the cutoff and make it July 1st. There will always be kids who are smarter or bigger no matter what their age when they enter K.

I would sign up for this too, even tho I am on the 'other side of the fence' IF it would help the issue, but it won't. Even with a July 1st cutoff- it will happen, March, April, May, June kids would then be redshirted.

I don't propose to know why everyone does it - and I'm sure there are people with actual reasons. All I can say is that the vast majority of people I have spoken to in person (not counting this type of thread) about this topic say their child 'is not ready'. A very vague reason. When I ask what specifically isn't ready - they usually state maturity or inability to sit still for long periods. When I ask if they are on track or average for a 4 year old they say of course. These children are not behind at all. The K class (here it is 12/1 cutoffo too) is MADE for 4 and 5 year olds. So really they ARE ready if they are at least an average 4 year old. So I can only speak from my own experience - VERY RARELY have I found someone who has said that their child has a speech delay or other sort of delay or difficulty (maybe trouble learnign their letters or other). So in my own experience, yes, the parents just want their child to be one of the things as you stated above. It was not because they were not ready - they just want them to be MORE ready...You can draw your own conclusions as to why.

And honestly I don't care if you do it as long as you don't turn around and expect 1st grade material to be taught to your child. You had your opportunity to give them 1st grade material at 6 years old, by sending them on time.

It is not a big deal really - there are already laws in place stating what age you HAVE to have your kids in school...just expand them to include Kindergarten (and adjust cutoffs as necessary) and then we can all be happy.

Yes, someone is always going to be bigger/smarter...I am just asking for fairness for all the kids in the classroom as well as the teacher.

 

[Jennabeth]

I would sign up for this too, even tho I am on the 'other side of the fence' IF it would help the issue, but it won't. Even with a July 1st cutoff- it will happen, March, April, May, June kids would then be redshirted.

I don't propose to know why everyone does it - and I'm sure there are people with actual reasons. All I can say is that the vast majority of people I have spoken to in person (not counting this type of thread) about this topic say their child 'is not ready'. A very vague reason. When I ask what specifically isn't ready - they usually state maturity or inability to sit still for long periods. When I ask if they are on track or average for a 4 year old they say of course. These children are not behind at all. The K class (here it is 12/1 cutoffo too) is MADE for 4 and 5 year olds. So really they ARE ready if they are at least an average 4 year old. So I can only speak from my own experience - VERY RARELY have I found someone who has said that their child has a speech delay or other sort of delay or difficulty (maybe trouble learnign their letters or other). So in my own experience, yes, the parents just want their child to be one of the things as you stated above. It was not because they were not ready - they just want them to be MORE ready...You can draw your own conclusions as to why.

And honestly I don't care if you do it as long as you don't turn around and expect 1st grade material to be taught to your child. You had your opportunity to give them 1st grade material at 6 years old, by sending them on time.

It is not a big deal really - there are already laws in place stating what age you HAVE to have your kids in school...just expand them to include Kindergarten (and adjust cutoffs as necessary) and then we can all be happy.

Yes, someone is always going to be bigger/smarter...I am just asking for fairness for all the kids in the classroom as well as the teacher.

But the kicker is, at least in our school district (highly desired), our K curriculum isn't geared toward a 4 year old. It's geared for 5 almost 6 year olds. The teachers themselves have told me this when we discussed it. Our K is what 1st grade was 25 years ago. Students are expected to be able to read and write when they enter kindergarten. It's the 'on time' kids that sometimes hold the class back because they need to be shown how to properly hold scissors and pens and have to learn the sounds the letters make. This was what I learned in Kindergarten (I loved the Letter People). My 8 year old is in second grade and is learning multiplication and adding and subtracting fractions.

I did send my daughter expecting first grade material (what I knew to be first grade material), because that's what I was told (by the school) they would be learning. I asked about her getting bored and being ahead and was assured they would teach to her ability, she wouldn't be the only one who might be ahead. That's what good teachers do and I love my school!

You didn't ask, but I can tell you specifically what made me think my 4 yo wasn't ready for K. When we took my loud, bossy 3 yo to preschool she immediately clammed up and looked at the ground and picked her fingernails. DD had been in daycare since 12 weeks so it's not like she wasn't used to being with a crowd of kids. There was something about the classroom that scared her. I watched her sit by herself and never raise her hand or speak up. This was not my dd, I didn't know who that child was. The other kids who were almost a year older than her were not afraid to speak up and DD was left behind. Our school offers a Young 5 class. It is like Kindergarten was when I was young and is geared for those who have 'ber' birthdays. It is in the school, every day, 1/2 day and lets the kids play a little more than K. We sent her there and watched her bloom and return to the child I knew. She spoke up and socialized with the other kids. I KNEW, 100% without a doubt this was what we were supposed to do.

I have an older daughter who has a Jan birthday. She started "on time" and is only 3 months younger in each grade than my DD who was "red shirted." DD1 struggles a bit in certain subjects (does that make sense, DD1 was 5 yrs 8 mths in K, DD2 was 5 years 11 mths in K). DD2 excels in what DD1 struggles in. Do I think it's because of their ages when they started, no I'm sure it's because of who they are and how their brains work. Do I think DD1 would have an easier time if she was older, not really. She just doesn't like math or science by loves art and music/band.

 

[tartemis]

Two points:

-- This idea that "I did what was best for MY child" without thinking about the broader consequences for society is selfish and, often times, short-sighted. Great, so you didn't want your kid to be the smallest, shyest, shortest, whatever, so you hold them back and let some other family deal with being in that category -- possibly some other family that doesn't have the resources that you do to keep a child at home for another year (not to mention the leapfrogging problem). It is also a by-product of the "me" generation.

-- There is no reason why 4 or 5 year olds can't be reading in Kindergraten. My youngest DD turned 3 this fall and can already read and write basic words. I would be very disappointed if when she goes to K they are working on letters -- that is for preschool, not K.

Oh yeah, and my 3 year old that can already read and write has to wait a whole extra year to start K because she misses the cut-off by 10 days. Despite my attempts to get her in "early" schools here are telling me they have a strict policy about not starting any child in K unless they are 5 by Sept. 1 -- but, parents have the discretion to red-shirt if they want. Why the one-sided policy?

And just in case I am blasted for being bias since my child will naturally be one of the oldest (except for the redshirted kids), my second DD falls on the opposite spectrum and will be guranteed to be one of the youngest as her birthday is just a couple of weeks before the cut-off. So while my two kids are 23 months apart in age, they will be only 1 year apart in school.

Even though she is only 1, people are constantly asking me if we are going to redshirt her and I look at them like they are crazy; why would I possibly hold back my child? Children rise to expectations, if you set them low you aren't doing your child any favors, in fact you are "holding them back" in more ways than one.

***okay, so maybe that was more than 2 points.

 

[GinnyEmma]

just because your child was ready to read at three doesn't mean all kids are. I have worked with kids that could not read at 7 but at 9 were reading high school material. Reading readiness is like anything else. You can't force a child to potty train, do algebra, or read when they are not ready.

but as long as it isn't your child those things don't really matter, do they?