Should I ask my Dad's wife to see his will?

[cabanafrau]

OP, my sister and I were in this position when my father died. He had changed his life insurance policy to that my sister and I were the beneficiaries shortly before he died. My step mother was a legal secretary, however, and somehow after the death his life insurance went to her. His will also disappeared, despite my uncle having a copy. We didn't want things to get ugly so we let it be.

Whatever, it didn't matter to us. We didn't care about the money or anything else. We just wanted our childhood pictures and mementos from our grandmother. Unfortunately our step-monster, I mean step-mother threw away the family albums and gave away everything that was my dad's and my grandmothers. It's just how she is and who she is. Fortunately before my parents divorced, my mom did split family pictures between her and my father so we do have those. Our uncles have also included us in their wills so we will receive some of our grandmother's belongings. Some of those items they have already given to us.

It's hard and it's not fair. Watching my step-siblings raid my dad's workshop of tools and items he made was heartbreaking because we knew we would never get any of his hand-made furniture. We didn't care about anything monetarily, just as memories. We were mad, hurt, and even bitter for a while, but we moved on because we couldn't let this consume us. We still have memories that can never be taken.

The life insurance maneuver is astounding. Insurance companies are noted for being implacable about how they will pay out and to whom.

 

[cabanafrau]

$100,000 seems to be the common level, which most folks with a house will be at.
http://money.cnn.com/retirement/guide/estateplanning_trusts.moneymag/index4.htm

Merely pointing out that it's not how it works IRL, Google and magazine articles aside. General rule of thumb in our area is typically 250k before there is a recommendation to open a trust. I don't know this anecdotally based on my personal life experience or that of family or friends alone. It's based on my work experience and lots of discussions with those in the estate planning and estate/probate management profession.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

There actually can be a specification ... nothing goes to specific person/people.

Sorry for your loss OP. In your shoes, if you are seeking any type of photographs, asking to make copies ( thereby leaving her with originals) would be a door opener for you.) Momento’s? They may mean nothing to her and something to you, but unless she agrees ( or it’s in the will, which is questionable) she is in control and having to ask her for a “thing” may cause more harm than good.
No one knows what your stepmother is thinking.. and it might be that she thinks you are of no consequence.. having not seen or spoken to her/your father for years and thru his illness. Regardless of what other family members indicated your father wanted.. unless he specified, it sadly means nothing.
Eventually the will, will be read and if anything goes to you, you ll learn of it then. I’d leave that alone with your stepmom.
you could try probate /court info ( if even applicable).
Again, sorry for your loss.

Of course there can be a specification. But it isn't likely, since the OP has stated that the disagreement is with the stepmother not the father.

Basically the OP needs to contact the stepmother and ask about photos and hope for the best.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Merely pointing out that it's not how it works IRL, Google and magazine articles aside. General rule of thumb in our area is typically 250k before there is a recommendation to open a trust. I don't know this anecdotally based on my personal life experience or that of family or friends alone. It's based on my work experience and lots of discussions with those in the estate planning and estate/probate management profession.

I always thought it was closer to $1M. We're suddenly in the position to do this--MIL died last year, DH is in the process of inheriting. As I'm sure you know, it's not like on TV, where everyone leaves the cemetery and goes to the lawyer's office to get good/bad financial news and pick up checks. Her estate is through probate, but her main trust hasn't been distributed yet. Hopefully the dust will have settled by the end of this summer, then DH and I will be going to our own estate attorney to figure out the best way to structure things for ourselves and our posterity.

Now, there ARE different types of trusts--MIL actually had several. The ones containing life insurance paid out surprisingly quickly, because, as you say, insurance companies have their own way of doing things.

 

[cabanafrau]

I always thought it was closer to $1M. We're suddenly in the position to do this--MIL died last year, DH is in the process of inheriting. As I'm sure you know, it's not like on TV, where everyone leaves the cemetery and goes to the lawyer's office to get good/bad financial news and pick up checks. Her estate is through probate, but her main trust hasn't been distributed yet. Hopefully the dust will have settled by the end of this summer, then DH and I will be going to our own estate attorney to figure out the best way to structure things for ourselves and our posterity.

Now, there ARE different types of trusts--MIL actually had several. The ones containing life insurance paid out surprisingly quickly, because, as you say, insurance companies have their own way of doing things.

I agree, trusts are usually only considered when there is a substantial amount of assets being planned for. I was responding to the suggestion that 100k is the threshold. As I said, I happen to know that in our area the general rule of thumb is at least 250k before a trust is entertained.

Yes, there are several kinds of trusts, some of which provide for a surviving spouse until their demise and then "convert" to a more conventional trust for the family or specific designee at that point. Some trusts do not disburse all benefits upon demise the way a will might provide, instead providing disbursements upon either a pre-determined schedule (i.e. each child receives 20% of their share upon each of X, Y and Z birthdays or possibly 30% when ready to purchase a home, etc.), and others may be left in the hand of a designated trustee(s) who have control about when and how distributions are to be made.

 

[gotomu212]

Just putting out a plug that as a parent if there are things that are more sentimental that you want kids from split families to get it’s always great to take care of that while you’re still around. Pictures, old letters, Christmas ornaments are great to pass along at major milestones like marriages/birth of grandchildren/etc. and avoids any awfulness when you’re gone and emotions are so raw.

 

[cabanafrau]

Just putting out a plug that as a parent if there are things that are more sentimental that you want kids from split families to get it’s always great to take care of that while you’re still around. Pictures, old letters, Christmas ornaments are great to pass along at major milestones like marriages/birth of grandchildren/etc. and avoids any awfulness when you’re gone and emotions are so raw.

These types of possessions generate some of the most heated battles and nastiest spiteful acts in both divorce cases and estates. It is jaw dropping to see the maliciousness that happens over items it would be almost impossible to unload at a garage sale and not welcomed in the least by most charitable organizations, yet are beyond precious to those emotionally involved with them.

 

[MaryLovesPoohBear]

These types of possessions generate some of the most heated battles and nastiest spiteful acts in both divorce cases and estates. It is jaw dropping to see the maliciousness that happens over items it would be almost impossible to unload at a garage sale and not welcomed in the least by most charitable organizations, yet are beyond precious to those emotionally involved with them.

Yes, it is incredible I've told many people to give away things now, unless you are using them. Jewelry that just sits in your jewelry box. Pictures that are gathering dust in a box in the closet. Pass them out now.

I was very blessed when my parents died. My sister and I both knew what a death could do to a family. We were both understanding of how the other felt. The down side, was that we knew how things could get because of what my mother's family did to her when her own mother died. They cut her off completely. We knew that we didn't want that for each other.

 

[BLAZEY]

It doesn’t work that way, unless there is some funky “life estate” type trust set up where she has use of assets but never really owns them.

If your FIL passes and leaves everything to his wife, those assets then become HERS, and she alone determines what happens to them next. Once they passed from your FIL to his wife, his control of them was over. He doesn’t get to dictate the next step in inheritance.

That's what's happening in my case. My father predeceased his father, and my grandparents were divorced. My Grandfather spelled out in his will that his partner (not married, but common law here is 6 months co-habitation) of many years could live in the condo HE owned until she was physically unable, or passed away but he didn't will it to her. His assets are currently being held in trust. I believe some special gifts to her daughters that he was close to, then the balance of the estate is split between my aunt, his partner (if she is alive but unable to live independently and my sister and I split what would be our fathers 1/3. I get that he wanted to ensure she was cared for and could stay in the condo, and that his assets were divided among those he cared for, hence the trust.

 

[Dan Murphy]

Probate is only for estates without wills or huge assets

A will will not keep an estate out of probate. Small asset estates can go through probate also.

(Not to be taken as financial or legal advice)

 

[starry_solo]

It would be a pour over will. That is the means by which many estate plans move the assets of the estate into the trust upon the death of the settlor.

Oops, I knew it was a pour over something.

 

[mummabear]

Not true. I suspect what you're really thinking is, "These photos have no value to step-mom, why would she want them?", which is a valid thought. But the fact remains, the step-mom still owns the photos, along with his bank account and good china and old socks. If it were me, or any rational person, giving the photos to his only child would be sensible and kind. That doesn't mean it's going to happen--we don't know if the step-mom is rational or has a kind nature.

Possibly legally you are correct, however since they have no monetary value and are unlikely to have been left to anyone (second wife included) I am sure OP has a claim.
It would be interesting if someone would take it to court how the judge would rule.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Possibly legally you are correct, however since they have no monetary value and are unlikely to have been left to anyone (second wife included) I am sure OP has a claim.
It would be interesting if someone would take it to court how the judge would rule.

No, the OP would have no claim. No judge would rule anything, because there's no case. Especially if they have no value. You're not making sense.

Sure, a kind-hearted person would either give the photos outright, or make copies and give those. But, she doesn't have to. She could burn them in a pile, right under the OP's nose--no legal entity would stop her. Is this right? I don't think so, but that doesn't stop it from being legal. The OP's stepmother has already shown herself to be, um, less than generous.

 

[mummabear]

No, the OP would have no claim. No judge would rule anything, because there's no case. Especially if they have no value. You're not making sense.

Sure, a kind-hearted person would either give the photos outright, or make copies and give those. But, she doesn't have to. She could burn them in a pile, right under the OP's nose--no legal entity would stop her. Is this right? I don't think so, but that doesn't stop it from being legal. The OP's stepmother has already shown herself to be, um, less than generous.

I think that the photos are property, like anything else being contested in a will, the ownership of photos could go to court to establish that who receives it.

 

[barkley]

Just putting out a plug that as a parent if there are things that are more sentimental that you want kids from split families to get it’s always great to take care of that while you’re still around. Pictures, old letters, Christmas ornaments are great to pass along at major milestones like marriages/birth of grandchildren/etc. and avoids any awfulness when you’re gone and emotions are so raw.

These types of possessions generate some of the most heated battles and nastiest spiteful acts in both divorce cases and estates. It is jaw dropping to see the maliciousness that happens over items it would be almost impossible to unload at a garage sale and not welcomed in the least by most charitable organizations, yet are beyond precious to those emotionally involved with them.

I would also add-if you are going to gift these items *JUST IN CASE* give the recipient a note with your signature indicating that you did indeed 'gift' the item to them (name the item, sign, date) OR keep record of it yourself with you signature and dates in a safe place as an attachment for your will or trust.

sounds like overkill huh? but when people get nasty and money grubbing they may use one person's gifted ownership of the deceased's former possessions as legal leverage to go after more $$$$$$$$$$$$$. despite someone having been gifted a family item years earlier a greedy money grubber can tie up an estate being settled for months over the true ownership of a single item (and run up legal bills like crazy). been there-had to deal with that

I think that the photos are property, like anything else being contested in a will, the ownership of photos could go to court to establish that who receives it.

photos ARE property-the property of whomever the deceased named in their will to receive them (inclusive in "all my possessions"), or in absence of a will whomever an individual State mandates through intestate succession (but even then if it comes down to a spouse and their late spouse's estranged adult child it could be a very costly endeavor to have to determine and catalog every individual item the adult child claims was their late parent's 'sole' property and then mediate/negotiate who gets what).

 

[mummabear]

I would also add-if you are going to gift these items *JUST IN CASE* give the recipient a note with your signature indicating that you did indeed 'gift' the item to them (name the item, sign, date) OR keep record of it yourself with you signature and dates in a safe place as an attachment for your will or trust.

sounds like overkill huh? but when people get nasty and money grubbing they may use one person's gifted ownership of the deceased's former possessions as legal leverage to go after more $$$$$$$$$$$$$. despite someone having been gifted a family item years earlier a greedy money grubber can tie up an estate being settled for months over the true ownership of a single item (and run up legal bills like crazy). been there-had to deal with that



photos ARE property-the property of whomever the deceased named in their will to receive them (inclusive in "all my possessions"), or in absence of a will whomever an individual State mandates through intestate succession (but even then if it comes down to a spouse and their late spouse's estranged adult child it could be a very costly endeavor to have to determine and catalog every individual item the adult child claims was their late parent's 'sole' property and then mediate/negotiate who gets what).

And it would cost both sides to fight it for sure, with no guarantee of OP being successful.
However if I was in the position where my deceased parent second spouse was keeping things especially things that have no material value and are “special” and from before their time-I would do whatever it takes.

 

[cabanafrau]

I would also add-if you are going to gift these items *JUST IN CASE* give the recipient a note with your signature indicating that you did indeed 'gift' the item to them (name the item, sign, date) OR keep record of it yourself with you signature and dates in a safe place as an attachment for your will or trust.

sounds like overkill huh? but when people get nasty and money grubbing they may use one person's gifted ownership of the deceased's former possessions as legal leverage to go after more $$$$$$$$$$$$$. despite someone having been gifted a family item years earlier a greedy money grubber can tie up an estate being settled for months over the true ownership of a single item (and run up legal bills like crazy). been there-had to deal with that



photos ARE property-the property of whomever the deceased named in their will to receive them (inclusive in "all my possessions"), or in absence of a will whomever an individual State mandates through intestate succession (but even then if it comes down to a spouse and their late spouse's estranged adult child it could be a very costly endeavor to have to determine and catalog every individual item the adult child claims was their late parent's 'sole' property and then mediate/negotiate who gets what).

Absolutely not overkill in my eyes, not at all. It's not at all rare to see an average person's estate diminished tremendously by a legal war over emotional items -- and not because attorneys are fueling the battle to enrich themselves. My layperson's recommendation is write and sign the very explicitly detailed note and make sure every person designated to receive specific mementos has their own copy in their possession. It's funny how easily things like that simply can't be found when it's time to settle an estate. Papering beneficiaries with copies can help keep everybody honest and save a lot of money and time in legal wrangling.

 

[mousefan73]

OP here,
I got the will and very glad I did. I was comforting for me to read especially since Myself, DH and the kids were mentioned. This will was also made just recently as my DAD had lung cancer. Interestingly I was gifted some specific items, which I have yet to hear from her about. As I had expected ( and for the record ok with) she got bacically his entire estate except those few items mentioned at the end for us.

Next steps but different topic is addressing her on that one line in the will.


as commented above it is usually the "things" not the money that hurts the most. My counsin had a similar issue, his dad passed and his stepmom just got rid of all his tools, etc..... my counsin would have like to have had those. My uncle definately rolled in his grave on that one...

All I can say is that if you are divorved PLEASE keep these things in mind.. It's not about the money, but kids do like personal items as a memory. And in some cases where the relationship with the step is not good, these things need to be in writing.

 

[cabanafrau]

OP here,
I got the will and very glad I did. I was comforting for me to read especially since Myself, DH and the kids were mentioned. This will was also made just recently as my DAD had lung cancer. Interestingly I was gifted some specific items, which I have yet to hear from her about. As I had expected ( and for the record ok with) she got bacically his entire estate except those few items mentioned at the end for us.

Next steps but different topic is addressing her on that one line in the will.


as commented above it is usually the "things" not the money that hurts the most. My counsin had a similar issue, his dad passed and his stepmom just got rid of all his tools, etc..... my counsin would have like to have had those. My uncle definately rolled in his grave on that one...

All I can say is that if you are divorved PLEASE keep these things in mind.. It's not about the money, but kids do like personal items as a memory. And in some cases where the relationship with the step is not good, these things need to be in writing.

Was the step mother designated as Personal Representative of the estate -- and more importantly did she accept that position and present herself as such to the Court? There are rules about what someone accepting the role and duties of Personal Representative agrees to uphold and can be legally required to perform to the best of their abilities, which includes notifying beneficiaries within a certain timeframe. A PR is sometimes called an executor also. It is a fiduciary position and can be legally held to specific standards.

 

[SharonZ]

OP, are you sure that the personal items/photos still exist? When my grandfather moved, he sold everything - and I mean everything. He sold old photo albums, and personal items. Some of the stuff that was sold ended up on Ebay. Contact your stepmother, if that goes no where you need to let it go.