Should I ask my Dad's wife to see his will?

[cabanafrau]

OP, are you sure that the personal items/photos still exist? When my grandfather moved, he sold everything - and I mean everything. He sold old photo albums, and personal items. Some of the stuff that was sold ended up on Ebay. Contact your stepmother, if that goes no where you need to let it go.

If the will is very recent as OP suggested, the stepmother and/or Personal Rep of the estate may have to explain how and why property of the estate is not able to be distributed to the rightful beneficiaries. Sometimes judges will financially penalize someone for maliciously or recklessly preventing beneficiaries to what was rightfully intended for their benefit and enjoyment. I know of an award of several times the monetary value of a collectible train set that was very deliberately kept from a son in his father's estate by his aunt (dad's sister in law), who was also removed as PR of the estate and was denied payment of her lawyer's bills from the estate, which are ordinarily a privilege of a PR.

If a will was written 15 years ago and the deceased had control of his property and was physically and mentally capable of managing his affairs until six months ago a judge isn't likely to blame missing family photo albums on the PR without very good evidence. But a recent will making a personal bequest of a specific item may require serious demonstration that negligence or fraud isn't the cause for the unexplained inability to locate it.

 

[mousefan73]

OP, you said your father was an alcoholic with a personality disorder. I'm very sorry. I imagine your relationship with him was always tumultuous stretching back as far as you can remember. There's nothing you could've done to have changed that dynamic. Those were his failings, not yours.

Forgive me if I'm overstepping here, but I'm reading between the lines and this is what I see. You don't want money, but you want to see your father's will. You don't want money, but you think laws should mandate children receive an inheritance. You don't want money, but you want to talk to the widow to see if anything has been set aside for you.

I believe that you don't want money. I think you want to see your father's will because you want to see if he cared about you enough to include you in it. Possibly, you think it might shed some light onto his feelings about you prior to his death? You want to know if he regretted the estrangement, or if he remained angry, or if he forgot all about you and moved on with his life? You're looking for any indication that he still loved you?

Alcoholics are broken people who can sometimes get well. Personality disordered people are broken people who rarely get themselves well because they're too broken to understand anything is wrong with them. It's highly unlikely your father ever saw the error of his ways and I worry you're not going to find the validation you may be looking for. I think it's okay to request a copy of the will and to reach out to the widow, but please prepare yourself for the possibility that doing so will bring you more hurt. And remember, people who willingly enter into relationships with broken people do so because they have their own mountain of dysfunction. Keep your expectations low for dealing with his widow.

Your energy may be better spent on seeking therapy if you find your father's death is opening old wounds for you.

Dear TipsyTraveler,
No you did not overstep. Actually I almost cried reading what you wrote as I could not have written my situation better. You hit the nail on the head so to say. You also got my dad's relationship with second wife perfect. I just had dinner with my uncle and we were commenting on how most people re-marry the same type ( not all cases, but most). My mom and her were a 180... Yes my Dad was broke, typeical mid-life crisis. He gave me a great childhood, not all was bad. my mom getting out was the best for the both of us.... That was one issue his new wife had.. She was simply jealous on how good I and my mom had it... especially financially.. My Uncle also told me that the best thing my Dad ever did, was me... He was proud of me.. I got an education, great job, GREAT Husband and kids.... I am financially stable.. This is why I feel his wife should get an financial assets.. She did take care of him the past year. and I do not want her in financial stress ( selfish part of me wants no responsibility if you get what I me)... therapy, I missed that boat. I am good now.. I think about 15 years ago I could have used some, but not now... Life is good. I dont want to dig things up.

Some one also commented estrangement can start with a single event... For my dad and her it was a build up of disappointment they had over me. All were irrational things... Like me disrespecting him and her by not sending her a Mother's Day card ( they married was I was 25 after my dad basically separated from my mom and made our lives hell, yes I sided with my mom ). I ruined THEIR special weekend with the kids, as my mom planned the same thing a few months later ( I/ she had no idea it was a big Broadway show series everyone went to, but I should have cancelled on my mom).. things like that. I always thought parents estranged a child because they were drug addicts, stole or I dont know married into a wierd religion.... Not in my case. I was normal dealing with irrational people.

 

[mousefan73]

Was the step mother designated as Personal Representative of the estate -- and more importantly did she accept that position and present herself as such to the Court? There are rules about what someone accepting the role and duties of Personal Representative agrees to uphold and can be legally required to perform to the best of their abilities, which includes notifying beneficiaries within a certain timeframe. A PR is sometimes called an executor also. It is a fiduciary position and can be legally held to specific standards.

Need to check there was an excecutor but in a different state. But I believe only if she passed?? Need to pull will back up. I know she filed it

 

[cabanafrau]

Need to check there was an excecutor but in a different state. But I believe only if she passed?? Need to pull will back up. I know she filed it

If she is the first executor and she has accepted the position via filing the will with the court you will need to deal with her regarding whatever it is that was specifically bequeathed to you and members of your family. Note, sometimes estates can take quite some time to settle. Sometimes it is because a PR is ineffective, or negligent or deliberately dragging their feet. Sometimes beneficiaries assume things should happen overnight and there are reasons why settlement and distribution must take a very long time. Since you are dealing with a person known to behave erratically I would recommend you educate yourself before making any moves to set her off, but don't take too long because she could "accidentally" toss a photo album or great grandma's recipes because she "was in a lot of grief and didn't realize what they were and just needed to not have to face all these painful reminders". People do a lot of things in these situations, so it's best to try to prepare yourself to put your best foot forward, get in and out without a big fuss being kicked up.

I kind of have the impression that your father left you things more of a sentimental value than of any particular monetary value. That is very much in your favor, both of potentially extricating them from your stepmother and that she has little incentive to even begin to claim they must be sold to help settle any estate debts or delay their distribution. Your state has laws about estates and it's likely you can get information free with some simple Googling, i.e. How long after filing a will in Michigan does a Personal Rep have to notify beneficiaries? If I received a bequest in a will in Michigan that has been filed in court do I have to register as an interested party with the court? How long does Michigan law allow a Personal Rep to wait before making specific distributions to beneficiaries of personal items in an estate? You won't want to hire an attorney and ring up legal bills about a family photo album or the family christening gown unless things become dire and you are truly determined to gain possession, so a Google search along the lines I've suggested will probably give you enough to work with to handle things yourself.

If there are other items not named in the will that have sentimental value to you and would have no financial value to your stepmother, I strongly recommend you make a polite approach to her about those specific items before she is aware that you have seen the will. You've described her as someone to approach like walking on eggshells, so I'd imagine that once she knows you are aware and will pursue your rights to your father's bequests she will give nothing unless legally required. Once you have any important momentos it won't matter that she is made aware you've seen the will -- in fact it may or may not make her inclined to hand over grandma's recipe box since she knows you know it's in the will. If she's not the PR contact them directly if there are no other personal momentos you wish to ask your stepmother for first. If she is PR and won't talk to you, check with the court to see if she has an attorney and contact them directly about what is in the will and when you can expect distribution.

 

[robinb]

If there are other items not named in the will that have sentimental value to you and would have no financial value to your stepmother, I strongly recommend you make a polite approach to her about those specific items before she is aware that you have seen the will. You've described her as someone to approach like walking on eggshells, so I'd imagine that once she knows you are aware and will pursue your rights to your father's bequests she will give nothing unless legally required. Once you have any important momentos it won't matter that she is made aware you've seen the will -- in fact it may or may not make her inclined to hand over grandma's recipe box since she knows you know it's in the will. If she's not the PR contact them directly if there are no other personal momentos you wish to ask your stepmother for first. If she is PR and won't talk to you, check with the court to see if she has an attorney and contact them directly about what is in the will and when you can expect distribution.

I agree with this. Don't tip your hand that you have already seen the will.

 

[tinkerdorabelle]

When my husband's father died, we said nothing at all to his stepmother. We did want to go down and visit him in FL when we found out he was passing, and she kept telling us he's fine and it's not time yet. Well he ends up passing much sooner about a couple weeks bf we were going to go down (and on my husband's birthday to make it worse) and we find out that he left my husband some money and she was trying to get it. She knew about this while he was still sick which was why she didn't want us to fly down. She was going to the bank and fighting saying that she should be entitled to what was in that bank account etc., but his father had a bank account with just his and my husband's name on it, and no one else. We had no idea whatsoever and never expected anything except for like you, maybe pictures, etc. We were in good standing with his stepmother, and after this she tried to get us to give her some of the money etc.. Anyway just ask her about the pictures and do it soon.

 

[TipsyTraveler]

Dear TipsyTraveler,
No you did not overstep. Actually I almost cried reading what you wrote as I could not have written my situation better. You hit the nail on the head so to say. You also got my dad's relationship with second wife perfect. I just had dinner with my uncle and we were commenting on how most people re-marry the same type ( not all cases, but most). My mom and her were a 180... Yes my Dad was broke, typeical mid-life crisis. He gave me a great childhood, not all was bad. my mom getting out was the best for the both of us.... That was one issue his new wife had.. She was simply jealous on how good I and my mom had it... especially financially.. My Uncle also told me that the best thing my Dad ever did, was me... He was proud of me.. I got an education, great job, GREAT Husband and kids.... I am financially stable.. This is why I feel his wife should get an financial assets.. She did take care of him the past year. and I do not want her in financial stress ( selfish part of me wants no responsibility if you get what I me)... therapy, I missed that boat. I am good now.. I think about 15 years ago I could have used some, but not now... Life is good. I dont want to dig things up.

Some one also commented estrangement can start with a single event... For my dad and her it was a build up of disappointment they had over me. All were irrational things... Like me disrespecting him and her by not sending her a Mother's Day card ( they married was I was 25 after my dad basically separated from my mom and made our lives hell, yes I sided with my mom ). I ruined THEIR special weekend with the kids, as my mom planned the same thing a few months later ( I/ she had no idea it was a big Broadway show series everyone went to, but I should have cancelled on my mom).. things like that. I always thought parents estranged a child because they were drug addicts, stole or I dont know married into a wierd religion.... Not in my case. I was normal dealing with irrational people.

I'm glad seeing the will was a positive experience for you and I wish you luck in dealing with his widow.

 

[gotomu212]

I think that the photos are property, like anything else being contested in a will, the ownership of photos could go to court to establish that who receives it.

I think you’re being outside the US has you a little confused about wills and estates here. It’s not like the movies. The only things you can contest are whether the signer had capacity (was in his right mind and not under duress/gun to the head when he signed), if there’s something that’s unclear (will says the vacation house goes to Bob and there are 2 vacation homes and it’s not clear which one they are talking about), whether there is a later valid will, if you have a claim against the estate that needs repayment (I loaned dad $2k), and if the executor is not following the will (will says Bob gets the car and they won’t give it to him). That’s it. You can’t go and say I think dad should have given me x or the wife doesn’t have the right to y in my opinion.

There’s no standing there and the judge won’t even allow the case to proceed

 

[mummabear]

I think you’re being outside the US has you a little confused about wills and estates here. It’s not like the movies. The only things you can contest are whether the signer had capacity (was in his right mind and not under duress/gun to the head when he signed), if there’s something that’s unclear (will says the vacation house goes to Bob and there are 2 vacation homes and it’s not clear which one they are talking about), whether there is a later valid will, if you have a claim against the estate that needs repayment (I loaned dad $2k), and if the executor is not following the will (will says Bob gets the car and they won’t give it to him). That’s it. You can’t go and say I think dad should have given me x or the wife doesn’t have the right to y in my opinion.

There’s no standing there and the judge won’t even allow the case to proceed

In that case I would need to take matters into my own hands to ensure I, not some second spouse, had my childhood memories

 

[mousefan73]

Bit OT, but for each Disney trip I invest time and money to make a photobook. I always order two ( they cost a about 70 each). I have in the back of my head each kid should at some point get a copy. As If I only had one, who would get it later?? I also usually get double prints.

 

[CarolAnn856]

Bit OT, but for each Disney trip I invest time and money to make a photobook. I always order two ( they cost a about 70 each). I have in the back of my head each kid should at some point get a copy. As If I only had one, who would get it later?? I also usually get double prints.

I'm terrible about getting photos actually printed, but I do the same thing as you in other areas. For example, when we go on vacation to a new place, I get Christmas ornaments, and I always get one for each of our kids.

 

[mousefan73]

I'm terrible about getting photos actually printed, but I do the same thing as you in other areas. For example, when we go on vacation to a new place, I get Christmas ornaments, and I always get one for each of our kids.

OMG! I have failed here lol! We have a Disney Christmas tree in our Dining room.. has all our Disney ornaments I have collected over the years Kids get super excited as it's our Tradition to put it up after thanksgiving dinner.. Both looooove that tree. ....... Maybe i Need to put in writing our DD gets all princess themed and DS gets the others.... never thought of that.... This whole experience has made me mature on dealing with I hope still Long away future Events.

 

[tvguy]

In that case I would need to take matters into my own hands to ensure I, not some second spouse, had my childhood memories

Enjoy your time in prison.

 

[HopperFan]

I would also add-if you are going to gift these items *JUST IN CASE* give the recipient a note with your signature indicating that you did indeed 'gift' the item to them (name the item, sign, date) OR keep record of it yourself with you signature and dates in a safe place as an attachment for your will or trust.

sounds like overkill huh? but when people get nasty and money grubbing they may use one person's gifted ownership of the deceased's former possessions as legal leverage to go after more $$$$$$$$$$$$$. despite someone having been gifted a family item years earlier a greedy money grubber can tie up an estate being settled for months over the true ownership of a single item (and run up legal bills like crazy). been there-had to deal with that
.

Very good idea!!

And I'm looking at it from the other point of view ............. in a been there done that ............... a sibling that systematically took things over the last years of parent's lives that were not gifts. When the end came and it was time to look things over the kids realized MANY items of sentimental and monetary value (china, jewelry, etc) were gone. The china was fully returned when sibling was told it would come out of their portion (guess it only meant something if it was "free"), some sentimental items were returned when the pressure was put on but many valuable things like family jewelry .......... we think were sold off. We then dealt with difficult splitting of items due to the behavior of this one person and even a year after all was done they were hounding others that they deserved such and such ???? so give it to me.

We learned so much in what we dealt with last few years .... it's quite sad indeed that you often see the true colors ... and even in good situations thoughts are not always in sync so best "we" the parents need to make it all easy for them, in writing, to help maintain harmony. I think sometimes parents prior enabling and "gifting" in life sets up a pattern that brings the difficulty that happens after they pass.

 

[Hikergirl]

OP, I am glad that you found out for sure that your father wanted you to have some of his personal belongings.
I think it stinks that your step mother never mentioned that to you at all.
When my estranged mother died, she did not leave me anything, but family contacted me and asked me if I wanted anything.
I didn't, but thought it was nice of them to offer.

 

[cabanafrau]

In that case I would need to take matters into my own hands to ensure I, not some second spouse, had my childhood memories

If you are shutdown in the legal arena and the second spouse owns the marital home and all of the possessions are you suggesting a breaking and entering or home invasion as a viable solution?

If you're not caught outright it probably won't take an entire episode of Law and Order for the police to identify who had the motive to break in and only take the family photo album and grandma's recipe box.

 

[QueenIsabella]

Very good idea!!

And I'm looking at it from the other point of view ............. in a been there done that ............... a sibling that systematically took things over the last years of parent's lives that were not gifts. When the end came and it was time to look things over the kids realized MANY items of sentimental and monetary value (china, jewelry, etc) were gone. The china was fully returned when sibling was told it would come out of their portion (guess it only meant something if it was "free"), some sentimental items were returned when the pressure was put on but many valuable things like family jewelry .......... we think were sold off. We then dealt with difficult splitting of items due to the behavior of this one person and even a year after all was done they were hounding others that they deserved such and such ???? so give it to me.

We learned so much in what we dealt with last few years .... it's quite sad indeed that you often see the true colors ... and even in good situations thoughts are not always in sync so best "we" the parents need to make it all easy for them, in writing, to help maintain harmony. I think sometimes parents prior enabling and "gifting" in life sets up a pattern that brings the difficulty that happens after they pass.

I'm sorry you went through this. I have a brother with a similar mindset--luckily, sort of, our mom went into assisted living while he lived in another country, so there was little opportunity for him to glom the good stuff, such as it was.

With my MIL, we were again lucky that most items were divided prior to her death. There really only were a few things that each person wanted--for example, MIL had a lighted curio cabinet that I knew my SIL loved. SO, SIL got it. Why not? I could always buy myself a curio cabinet, exactly to my taste, if I felt like it.

MIL's death did get me to thinking about leaving things to my own kids, not that I plan to die any time soon. My older DD has permanently borrowed my gray pearls (high quality fakes), that my dad gave my mom. So, they're hers. OTOH, younger DD gets my real pearls--wedding gift from DH, and older DD better not complain! OTOH, I went to Italy last summer with both girls, and treated myself to a Venetian decanter and glass set. The kids are already fighting over it--thanks, kids, love you too! But I decided that older DD should get it--the trip was a graduation gift to her, and the set is a memento from that trip. So, she gets the Venetian glass.

 

[mummabear]

If you are shutdown in the legal arena and the second spouse owns the marital home and all of the possessions are you suggesting a breaking and entering or home invasion as a viable solution?

If you're not caught outright it probably won't take an entire episode of Law and Order for the police to identify who had the motive to break in and only take the family photo album and grandma's recipe box.

They would a)have to prove it and b) has to care. With resources stretched they are unlikely to care about some photos and a recipe box.
Furthermore I bet I could convince them that the crazy physco that would not give me pictures of my parent and I from a time before they were even part of our lives has thrown them out and is now making up stories.

 

[mummabear]

Enjoy your time in prison.

Have to be caught first.

 

[cabanafrau]

They would a)have to prove it and b) has to care. With resources stretched they are unlikely to care about some photos and a recipe box.
Furthermore I bet I could convince them that the crazy physco that would not give me pictures of my parent and I from a time before they were even part of our lives has thrown them out and is now making up stories.

Police where you live are stretched so thin that breaking and entering, larceny from a building or home invasion aren't followed up on? Surely there would be no problem then with the "crazy psycho" breaking in to take a look around your home and retrieve the items you removed from theirs?