Everything I knew about myself has been broke

[gotomu212]

I’ll just share what works for us and there’s a lot of goofy things about the importance of language and perspective.

First we divy up who is in charge of what- I don’t like the idea of a weekly to do list because then it’s still a negotiation of who is going to do what this week, who is checking more boxes.) So husband is always in charge of the lawn and cleaning bathrooms, I’m always in charge of going grocery shopping and vacuuming for example. How either of us does thing and exactly when we do it isn’t important (we’d have another issue if someone just wasn’t covering their area). We also split meal prep/cooking/bedtimes/practice carpooling so we each have 3 days. The other person backs off and unwinds during this time.

You mentioned thinking of him as another kid- I think it’s REALLY important to not fall into that trap or even the common mom jokes of no I really have 2 kids if you can’t my husband. It makes excuses for them not covering their workload, and it makes you start to view him not as an equal adult. I make sure I don’t do that. To that end I also don’t leave to do notes for him because that feels like an assignment you give and are “telling” him to do (and it reinforces the idea that it’s always your job to think of what needs to be done).

We try hard not to use the phrase “ask for help” because then it seems like they are doing you a favor (I know goofy language her but it does shift the thinking a little). Instead I’ll say “hey how are we going to get the room painted and the kids to practice this weekend” and then we divy it up like I can do this part and it’s a shared decision and shared responsibility. It’s so minor but it’s clear that A job that needs to be done not YOUR job that needs help to be done.

One very last thing you mentioned not wanting to “farm” your kid out and I don’t think that’s helpful language or thinking. That thinking sounds like you think that only you are capable and responsible for meeting every single one of your son’s needs and that not meeting his needs means you’ve been lazy or dodged your responsibility. When they are tiny it’s true that you do have an outsized role, however at this age sending him to a sitter or having dad handle bedtime isn’t farming him out.

The way to ensure your husband spends time with him is to set up blocks of time, probably on the weekend, where your husband has him for boys time. Don’t manage what they do or where they go (my son LOVES guys night and I’m horrified to find ou it has involved sledding down the stairs and seeing who can eat the most marshmallows but whatever they clearly bonded- and my husband cleaned up the marshmallow vomit so no worries). Lots of parents don’t get to attend after school activities or have very little time during the week due to work schedules and early bedtimes. Just like dividing housework, that means they get the weekends. Kids will be just fine as long as there’s some dedicated time for them with each parent.

Also don’t beat yourself up for having a little wine and venting. In fact I’d find a good friend and occasionally have more wine and roll your eyes and say can you believe what he did and your friend says ugh you are so right, you blow off steam and then go home- that’s how people have gotten through marriage for centuries.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I just can't believe in 2018 we are still having to have this discussion.

 

[Allison]

I am guilty of the martyr role and insisting on taking care of everything - so you are right - I am stuck with what I've created.

I don't mean it mean - but I hate picking up after him or doing things I would expect him to do just because I'd rather not argue about it getting done.

You put yourself in the role of insisting on taking care of everything and then resent it. That isn't good for the dynamics of your relationship.

 

[Piglet843]

Pretty much - generally speaking, we men are 'clutter blind'

lol

I am confused, within two replies on the same page you say that you imagine today he feels normal and thinking you have things you need to work on about yourself -- then a few posts later you hope he is thinking harder about some things today, as if you genuinely expect that's a possibility? This just does not sound like thoughts that reasonably coexist about one's spouse, especially when you emphatically state that you will have to implement the changes because he will not do so himself.

It can be an extremely difficult thing for people to change their natural body clock, which is what his long-term pattern sounds like. You need to have reasonable expectations here, possibly an immediate goal of working towards an hour earlier to bed, an hour up earlier in the morning -- opening up the possibility of spending the extra evening hour with you and/or your son. I'd imagine it would be extremely difficult to shift more than a maximum of two hours on each end, but I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing hard for him to make the effort for your family.

I did say both - my expectation is that he thinks nothing is wrong on his end. My prayer is that he did listen and realizes we both have something to work on and is open to doing so.
I would like to see an effort in trying to adjust - for us.

One thing about the sleeping hours -- some people are just wired differently. I love to sleep in -- always have. I still sleep until 9:30 or 10 on the weekends. And I love staying up late when I get the opportunity. But I'm an adult with a job and responsibilities, so most days I'm on the "traditional" wake/sleep schedule.

Maybe figure out a compromise where your husband still gets the opportunity to enjoy "some" late nights and late mornings -- but as a treat and not the norm. My husband is an early riser -- always has been. So he enjoys some "me" time on Saturday mornings while I sleep. It works for both of us.

I love to sleep in too. But I've not slept past 7 am in 4 years. To expect DH to get up at 7am, after going to bed at 2am or even later, is just something I don't ask for. Maybe I should start.

It’s not so much about giving him a pass as making sure OP understands they’re in this journey together and they’ve arrived at their current location together. Admittedly, the sheer volume of “me time” he’s receiving seems alarming at the least. But, it’s more important to determine where she & they need to be going forward and how to get there.

thanks

And one more thing...if my husband wanted his "needs" met he'd be coming to bed with me instead of me waiting up all hours of the night for him.

maybe this will fix itself if he works on his schedule...

Just to be fair, the fact that you’ve taken on the martyr role is no reason to feel “stuck”. You’re not where you need to be and just because you had a role in arriving at your current locale does not mean you have an obligation to be stuck there. If you jumped into a river and began to drown, your loved ones still need to rescue you even though you were the one who jumped.

It’s not that your complaints are without merit. We’d just love to see you deal with them in a more constructive & healthier manner than focusing on the resentment. That doesn’t help anyone, least of all you.

So, please don’t take these comments as saying you need to suck it up. That’s not what we’re getting at here. You haven’t asked for anything unreasonable and you need to fight for what you need.

Thank you. Good point.

 

[Piglet843]

I just can't believe in 2018 we are still having to have this discussion.

that was helpful

You put yourself in the role of insisting on taking care of everything and then resent it. That isn't good for the dynamics of your relationship.

I don't resent him for not helping. I resent him for chosing to be away from our family - be it staying at work late, staying out to do his hobbies, staying in bed till lunch time. He could go to bed earlier- come home earlier - and be up with us on the weekends. He choses not to. That I resent. He knows this is an issue with me and still choses not to fix it. The fact that on top of that (or even because of that) he is not much help around the house is just icing on this cupcake.

 

[okeydokey]

Good things that I needed to hear. I am probably "down" - because I am always resentful and jealous.

He is not depressed - he is fine. He goes to bed at 2am and gets up at 9 or 10. That is not excess sleep. Its just ridiculous hours that he keeps because he always has - and I want him to be more on our hours - maybe sleep 10-7 or 11-8 and spend more waking time with us, especially on the weekends. And the fact that we've been married 15 years - and I've expressed this to him sooo many times and he still hasn't changed - that makes me sad. I would think he would want to for our Son!



Thank you for the tough love I do plan make changes.

This is it right here. You have expressed your need for him to spend more time with you and your child, which he could by adjusting his hours a bit. That is a reasonable compromise and he is unwilling to make it. You have asked and he has decided not to, and still things keep working out in his favor. He doesn't care to make any changes for you or your son, and you are right, that is terribly sad. Honestly, I am not sure if you can fix this if he is unwilling to compromise at all.

 

[missbrooke06]

I want to say that asking your husband to spend 1x1 time with your child is NOT "farming him out". It's a gift to both of them to build a relationship without you. My husband gets super lazy too but when I push 1x1 time (or 1 on 2 time with both kids), he really does enjoy it. The kids are naturally drawn to mom because I do put in more time with them so even when we spend time as a family, they show preference to me. He and the kids have developed things that are "their" things, just like I have with my kids.

 

[Piglet843]

I’ll just share what works for us and there’s a lot of goofy things about the importance of language and perspective.

First we divy up who is in charge of what- I don’t like the idea of a weekly to do list because then it’s still a negotiation of who is going to do what this week, who is checking more boxes.) So husband is always in charge of the lawn and cleaning bathrooms, I’m always in charge of going grocery shopping and vacuuming for example. How either of us does thing and exactly when we do it isn’t important (we’d have another issue if someone just wasn’t covering their area). We also split meal prep/cooking/bedtimes/practice carpooling so we each have 3 days. The other person backs off and unwinds during this time.

You mentioned thinking of him as another kid- I think it’s REALLY important to not fall into that trap or even the common mom jokes of no I really have 2 kids if you can’t my husband. It makes excuses for them not covering their workload, and it makes you start to view him not as an equal adult. I make sure I don’t do that. To that end I also don’t leave to do notes for him because that feels like an assignment you give and are “telling” him to do (and it reinforces the idea that it’s always your job to think of what needs to be done).

We try hard not to use the phrase “ask for help” because then it seems like they are doing you a favor (I know goofy language her but it does shift the thinking a little). Instead I’ll say “hey how are we going to get the room painted and the kids to practice this weekend” and then we divy it up like I can do this part and it’s a shared decision and shared responsibility. It’s so minor but it’s clear that A job that needs to be done not YOUR job that needs help to be done.

One very last thing you mentioned not wanting to “farm” your kid out and I don’t think that’s helpful language or thinking. That thinking sounds like you think that only you are capable and responsible for meeting every single one of your son’s needs and that not meeting his needs means you’ve been lazy or dodged your responsibility. When they are tiny it’s true that you do have an outsized role, however at this age sending him to a sitter or having dad handle bedtime isn’t farming him out.

The way to ensure your husband spends time with him is to set up blocks of time, probably on the weekend, where your husband has him for boys time. Don’t manage what they do or where they go (my son LOVES guys night and I’m horrified to find ou it has involved sledding down the stairs and seeing who can eat the most marshmallows but whatever they clearly bonded- and my husband cleaned up the marshmallow vomit so no worries). Lots of parents don’t get to attend after school activities or have very little time during the week due to work schedules and early bedtimes. Just like dividing housework, that means they get the weekends. Kids will be just fine as long as there’s some dedicated time for them with each parent.

Also don’t beat yourself up for having a little wine and venting. In fact I’d find a good friend and occasionally have more wine and roll your eyes and say can you believe what he did and your friend says ugh you are so right, you blow off steam and then go home- that’s how people have gotten through marriage for centuries.

thank you - I like some of your ideas here...

 

[focusondisney]

So OP, has your husband's personality changed in the last few years? If he was always like this, working later hours, doing his own thing in the evening etc, why would you expect him to automatically change now? Why in the world are you staying up til your husband is ready to go to bed if you have to get up earlier???

You say you have a great marriage, but it seems like you both put other things before your marriage. For you, your son seems to come first, for your husband, it is himself. We're going on 40 years of marriage & the best bit of advise I ever read was to put the marriage first. Housework, friends and yes, even kids come after the marriage. I get wanting to spend time with your son, but it seems a bit obsessive the way you are putting it.

Your life seems to be going along the path you set it up to be. Now that it is not working for you, you will have to speak up & define a new plan. But you have to include your husband in the discussion. Maybe he doesn't like certain things either. Maybe he does feel like the third wheel around you & your son, maybe he wants more couple time. Maybe he is just lazy & doesn't want to put in any effort for a family. Time for an honest discussion : this isn't working for me kind of thing. Figure out what you both want your marriage & family to be & redefine it together.

 

[Piglet843]

I want to say that asking your husband to spend 1x1 time with your child is NOT "farming him out". It's a gift to both of them to build a relationship without you. My husband gets super lazy too but when I push 1x1 time (or 1 on 2 time with both kids), he really does enjoy it. The kids are naturally drawn to mom because I do put in more time with them so even when we spend time as a family, they show preference to me. He and the kids have developed things that are "their" things, just like I have with my kids.

I'm sorry I should have clarified that. I meant farming him off to the grandparents in order to get me time or us time. I expect DH to want his time with our son. I am angry at him for his lack of effort to do so.

 

[missbrooke06]

I'm sorry I should have clarified that. I meant farming him off to the grandparents in order to get me time or us time. I expect DH to want his time with our son. I am angry at him for his lack of effort to do so.

I get that but pushing your husband to spend time with your kid isn't just about the "me time". It's giving your child a better relationship with his dad. I understand wanting him to just do it but he's not. This is something you can do that benefits all of you - truly.

 

[FlightlessDuck]

Ask, ask, ask, ask. S-P-E-L-L it out. I think most husbands, mine included, when left to their own plans will veer towards spending their non-working hours doing projects or hobbies related to their interest.

While I get irritated by the general "men are dumb" theme that seems to infest this board, I will admit to doing this myself last week. It was Maundy Thursday and I had already asked for the day off even though my wife had to go to work due to making up a snow day. I planned to do genealogy research at the local library, and I had to deal with some of the setup at our church for that evening's candlelight communion service. After work, my wife asked if I had gotten the kids anything for their Easter baskets, because that's what she does when she has Maundy Thursday off (generally speaking I don't take that day off). Didn't even occur to me. Not once.

But in general if I know something has to be done, I'll at least make an attempt at it. Right now I am working from home while we are crate training our new puppy (It's just easier than driving home at lunch to walk her). I've done laundry and dishes ever day so far. I don't think most men are oblivious to how a house is run. At least not if both spouses are working. There's a grove you get into. Sunday and Wednesday? Scoop kitty litter, empty all the trash cans, take out the trash. Saturday in the summer? Mow the lawn. These are the type of chore decisions we made when we moved into this house. But if there is something my wife needs to get done and I don't know about, how am I supposed to do it, right?

 

[Piglet843]

So OP, has your husband's personality changed in the last few years? If he was always like this, working later hours, doing his own thing in the evening etc, why would you expect him to automatically change now? Why in the world are you staying up til your husband is ready to go to bed if you have to get up earlier???

You say you have a great marriage, but it seems like you both put other things before your marriage. For you, your son seems to come first, for your husband, it is himself. We're going on 40 years of marriage & the best bit of advise I ever read was to put the marriage first. Housework, friends and yes, even kids come after the marriage. I get wanting to spend time with your son, but it seems a bit obsessive the way you are putting it.

Your life seems to be going along the path you set it up to be. Now that it is not working for you, you will have to speak up & define a new plan. But you have to include your husband in the discussion. Maybe he doesn't like certain things either. Maybe he does feel like the third wheel around you & your son, maybe he wants more couple time. Maybe he is just lazy & doesn't want to put in any effort for a family. Time for an honest discussion : this isn't working for me kind of thing. Figure out what you both want your marriage & family to be & redefine it together.

DH has not changed. He has always had his own schedule/timeline. He has never needed to carry more weight around the house. I knew that when I married him. But it was much easier for me to adjust and deal with before we had kids. What has changed is now we have a very high energy 4 year old, who does not sleep in and who I want DH to spend time with, and I also want DH to pick up more slack.
Sometimes it feels like he doesn't want to or isn't even trying to.
I do expect him to change now because our lives have changed.

I agree maybe I should put more into our marriage - like it used to be - but these days - a lot of time I don't want to - I feel like I am getting nothing in return. So I guess that is on me for not doing that. Something I will work on.

 

[NHdisneylover]

that was helpful



I don't resent him for not helping. I resent him for chosing to be away from our family - be it staying at work late, staying out to do his hobbies, staying in bed till lunch time. He could go to bed earlier- come home earlier - and be up with us on the weekends. He chooses not to. That I resent. He knows this is an issue with me and still choses not to fix it. The fact that on top of that (or even because of that) he is not much help around the house is just icing on this cupcake.

It is very possible that your husband just doesn't care enough about the family and that is an issue, no doubt about it.
However, I do wonder if MAYBE a PP was right about you having unconsciously fallen into a pattern in which you and your son are very tight and tend to exclude your DH when he IS there. The way you talk about "farming" your son out and not ever wanting to miss time with him does seem to indicate this a bit and i have seen such scenarios play out among friends and neighbors so many times. If you and your son are always super "tight" and your husband feels like a third wheel when he IS there, he is going to naturally pull away and be in that emotionally hurtful places less and less.

This is one of the reasons I made the concrete suggestions that I did earlier in the thread. They are things which will give you a break, but also help your husband and son build their own relationship, without your influence, and hopefully in the long run that helps you all rebuild closeness and desire to be together as a family unit as well.

 

[nkereina]

Sorry if I'm repeating, but I'm also in the camp that perhaps your husband never knew you were overwhelmed. Some people thrive on taking care of the household. They WANT to do everything, are particular about the way things are done, and they wouldn't have it any other way. If your husband thought this was you, he may be surprised to learn that you find it to be a negative thing that you don't have time for yourself. The bigger question is whether your husband was open to and receptive to taking on more of the household responsibilities. If he was, then that's a great start. If he was not, then that's a problem that needs addressing.

 

[focusondisney]

Good things that I needed to hear. I am probably "down" - because I am always resentful and jealous.

He is not depressed - he is fine. He goes to bed at 2am and gets up at 9 or 10. That is not excess sleep. Its just ridiculous hours that he keeps because he always has - and I want him to be more on our hours - maybe sleep 10-7 or 11-8 and spend more waking time with us, especially on the weekends. And the fact that we've been married 15 years - and I've expressed this to him sooo many times and he still hasn't changed - that makes me sad. I would think he would want to for our Son!

Thank you for the tough love I do plan make changes.

that was helpful
I don't resent him for not helping. I resent him for chosing to be away from our family - be it staying at work late, staying out to do his hobbies, staying in bed till lunch time. He could go to bed earlier- come home earlier - and be up with us on the weekends. He choses not to. That I resent. He knows this is an issue with me and still choses not to fix it. The fact that on top of that (or even because of that) he is not much help around the house is just icing on this cupcake.

Your son is 4, these posts make it sound like your husband is still living like a single guy. I don't define a good marriage as 1 partner going along living like he's still single with no thought to his partner or family. From these posts it seems like you want different things in life. You want a home & family. Does he really? Did he want to start a family? Was it "time", the next step, you wanted kids, his parents expected grandkids etc??

If he wouldn't change for his wife, why would he change for his child? (That is my point about the marriage coming first.) I am just trying to reflect back how these posts are reading to me. You started off posting about cleaning & housework, but I'm reading between the lines to a much deeper problem. But maybe I'm reading it wrong.

 

[Piglet843]

Your son is 4, these posts make it sound like your husband is still living like a single guy. I don't define a good marriage as 1 partner going along living like he's still single with no thought to his partner or family. From these posts it seems like you want different things in life. You want a home & family. Does he really? Did he want to start a family? Was it "time", the next step, you wanted kids, his parents expected grandkids etc??

If he wouldn't change for his wife, why would he change for his child? (That is my point about the marriage coming first.) I am just trying to reflect back how these posts are reading to me. You started off posting about cleaning & housework, but I'm reading between the lines to a much deeper problem. But maybe I'm reading it wrong.

My first post was not originally meant to be geared towards that he doesn't help out... I meant for the "single guy" issues I am resenting to stand out as I typed this up...

["But, I have harbored resentment towards my husband for a while now. I have even posted on here about it before. He stays up very late, sleeps in, is away doing his hobbies several times a week, naps (even after sleeping in) on the weekends instead of playing with us or helping out. Doesn't help out unless I specifically ask for something. He's got the good life. I am jealous.
Apparently though - its not his fault - its mine.

Last night - we got a sitter for a couple hours. Wine tasting and dinner. Well, on the way back home, I had apparently had just enough wine that I thought I'd speak openly. I told him my concerns and how I don't feel like he appreciates me or understands how hard it is on me. I told him - he gets time for himself all the time. He has 4-5 hours everynight where he's just doing whatever - tv, games, phone... I don't get a second to myself. I even stay up late on his hours to meet his needs, but still have to get up early with the kid and to go to work/school. Every waking second I have is Kid, Job, Kid, him, house & responsibilities..."]

He did want to start a family - in fact he started the talks when I was the one hesitant. I am 37 - he will be 40 this summer. We are too old for this crap.... This is a deep problem that has been there and was just exacerbated by having a child.

 

[cabanafrau]

It is very possible that your husband just doesn't care enough about the family and that is an issue, no doubt about it.
However, I do wonder if MAYBE a PP was right about you having unconsciously fallen into a pattern in which you and your son are very tight and tend to exclude your DH when he IS there. The way you talk about "farming" your son out and not ever wanting to miss time with him does seem to indicate this a bit and i have seen such scenarios play out among friends and neighbors so many times. If you and your son are always super "tight" and your husband feels like a third wheel when he IS there, he is going to naturally pull away and be in that emotionally hurtful places less and less.

This is one of the reasons I made the concrete suggestions that I did earlier in the thread. They are things which will give you a break, but also help your husband and son build their own relationship, without your influence, and hopefully in the long run that helps you all rebuild closeness and desire to be together as a family unit as well.

We have friends who have fallen into this trap big time. They adopted fairly late in life because of fertility issues and I think all of it set up a perfect storm where mom micromanaged every detail of everything, and I do mean everything, when they brought baby home. Dad literally could not do anything without mom at least in the room, preferably over his shoulder, instructing him step by step precisely how everything was to be done. Flash forward years down the road to where baby has now celebrated birthdays requiring candles in the double digits and dad does nothing with their child that he is not instructed to do, the child feels no reason to follow any instructions from dad, dad is resentful of the child's behavior and has no real interest in forming an actual relationship with the child -- and vice versa. So many wasted opportunities.

 

[jrmasm]

When our kids were little, my husband got up early one weekend morning, I got up early the other. Easy.

 

[Gumbo4x4]

I think one thing that came up about men being oblivious to things that seem obvious to women is absolutely true. OTOH, women can be equally oblivious to the things men find blatantly obvious. We’re just wired differently.

My wife can’t comprehend how I don’t notice which brands of vegetables “we” buy. I can’t comprehend how she can not notice she’s 3,500 miles overdue for an oil change. And so it goes